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REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING/PUBLIC HEARING
MARCH 10, 1982
A regular meeting/public hearing of the Falcon Heights City Council was
called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Mayor Warkentien.
Mayor Warkentien, Councilmembers Eggert, Larson, Ciernia and Chestovich. PRESENT
Also present were Clerk Administrator Barnes, Attorney Swanson, Engineer
Schunicht, Planner Dale and Fiscal Consultant Chenoweth.
None. Engineer Lemberg arrived later.
Mayor Warkentien opened the public hear~g at 7:00 p.m. and presented
the Affidavit of Publication, Affidavit of Posting and the Certificate
of Mailing. He then turned the floor-over to Harold Westin of Haro]:d
J. Westin and Associates.
Mr. Westin gave a summary of issues over the past six months and stated
that the process of design has followed the statutes for PUD, with in-
put from the neighbors along each step of the way. He addressed such
subjects as traffic, storm water control, utilities and density and.
felt that all of the items now comply with the PUD ord~.nance and con-
ditions stipulated by the Planning Commission. He stressed the fact
that the Planning Commission, by a vote of ( to 2, recommended that
Council approve the rezoning to PUD.
Larry Stowe, 1954 Autumn, representing the Tatum/Falcon Woods Task
Force, explained that the group has been constantly in opposition to
the proposed development for reasons that still remain. He expressed
concern over the last minute change of plans over the past few months,
high ~density_ of the development and traffic problems. The Task Force
feels..the pr9po,~ed plan is a poor one and no;t commensurate with the __.
the quality of the City of Falcon Heights, is not in harmony, and does
not do justice to the community. He then presented to Council a petition
requesting rejection of the plan.
Mr. Stowe provided Council with a resume for each of the professional
experts appearing on the behalf of the Task Force. He then introduced
Planner Orlyn Miller of 'the firm of Wehrman Associates Planning Consult-
ants.
ABSENT
HAROLD WESTIN
OF HAROLD J.
WESTIN & ASSOC
ARCHITECTS &
ENGINEERS FOR
AMERICAN
SHELTER
LARRY STOWE
1954 AUTUMN
Mr. Miller explained that he agrees with the PUD concept, however he felt ORLYN MILLER
the Falcon Heights PUD Ordinance is extraordinarily liberal and that a WEHRMAN ASSOC.
PUD Ordinance should establish guidelinesin determining density. He
was of the opinion that the plan did not generate enough usable open
space, there should be more recreational area and preserve some of the
natural areas.
Mr. Miller presented to Council a comparative analysis of PUD ordinances
in various communities in the metropolitan area and stated that the Falcon
Heights ordinance is very liberal in comparison. He informed that limit-
ing density is established by zoning, a system that allows density increases
tied to amenities and the PUD should provide very strict controls on any
use or density. These bonuses should not be given on design standards
that are expected from any developer, that is proper architecture, proper
drainage, adequate landscaping, open space, or efficient circulation,
those items, in Mr. Miller's opinion, should not be considered bargaining
items in the density bonus game. In nearly all cases, Mr. Miller felt,
that the relationship to adjacent development is a major factor in
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING/PUBLIC HEARING
MARCH 10, 1982
PAGE 2
addressing design quality. If use flexibility and density bonuses are to
be considered then the PUD Ordinance or some other policy document should
establish guidelines for granting increases as it becomes somewhat arbi-
trary and subject to challenge. He stated that the Falcon Heights PUD
allows approval of densities above those which are allowed in the exist-
ing district but contains no criteria or guidelines for determining what
the logical density should be which, he felt, places undue responsibility
on the Planning Commission and Council. Mr. Miller then commented on the
proposed development plans regarding lack of method to preserve any exist-
ing features, no park space, no common private recreation area, and does
not protect adjoining properties. He stressed the lack of open space,
as any open space is fragmented, and there is not space available for even
one tennis court. -
MILLER (cont.)
Larry Stowe introduced John Sirney of Zuber Architects, representing JOHN SIRNEY
the Tatum/Falcon Woods Task Force who stated that an ordinance is establi- ZUBER
shed to provide for orderly development of property with respect for ARCHITECTS
existing R-1 property.. Mr. Sirney commented on such matters as neighbor-
hood: computability, lack of adequate buffering on the east, very little
open space, solar access both on Tatum and within the development, and
traffic, all of which are problems related to the high density of the
project. He was particularly concerned over the lack of open space
and possible impact on the city park and was of the opinion that 3
tennis courts would be the recommended number for such .a.developtgerit
and there is no available space.
Larry Stowe then introduced Attorney James :Steilen with the firm of
Popham, Haik, Schnobrich, Kaufman and Doty, Ltd. Mr. Steilen alluded
to his letter of I~iarch 10, 1982 to the Falcon Heights City Council
in which he stated the opposition of the Task Force. He sited some
of the reasons for objecting as traffic, density, lack of recreation,
drainage, buffering, and finances of the developer. He informed Council
that if they choose to reject the proposed development and rezoning,
the courts will not undo whatever is done unless Council is totally
irrational and cited court cases to prove his position. Attorney
Steilen,requested that Council not be stampeded into development and
that the proposed rezoning be rejected.
JAMES STEILEN
POPAM, HAIK,
SCHNOBRICH,
KAUFMAN & DOTY
Engineer Schunicht explained that the sanitary sewer and water systems ENGINEER
in the area had been reviewed and that both are ample to accomodate SCHUNICHT
the proposed development plus the existing R-3 property if upgradlecl
to a higher density. He also indicated that the proposed plan provides
adequate storm water control.
Mayor Warkentien informed that in discussing the development the subject
of tax increment financing came up and requested that City Attorney
Swanson and Fiscal Consultant Chenoweth address the subject.
City Attorney Swanson explained that by State law .a Council can create
a development district within any areas in the City and the area under
developmewtis a possibility for a development district for which a
tax increment plan can be adopted. The tax increment concept involves
the freezing of the tax level of property within the district and as
the market value increases by reason of property improvements and in-
~lationary increases, the increased taxes derived from the change in
MAYOR
WARKENTIEN-
TAX INCREMENT
F INANC I1VG
ATTORNEY
SWANSON
REGULARCITY COUNCIL MEETING/PUBLIC HEARING
MARCH 10, 1982
PAGE 3
~~
value is set aside for public improvements. It has been suggested, ATTORNEY
in respect to this PUD, that it might be possible that the area be SWANSON (cont~:
designated as a tax increment district, in which case, the City could
finance streets and utilities with the increased taxes derived from
the improvements. Attorney Swanson suggested that Council might wish
to explore the matter further.
Mayor Warkentien commented on the fact that tax increment financing
might be a way to finally get a connection to the St. Anthony Storm
Sewer which the City has been unable to finance in the past.
Fiscal Consultant Chenoweth stated that realizing the market value of
the proposed project and working with the assessed value and growth
of that area, it was estimated that there would be approximately
$$15,000.00 of taxes developed. The City, County and School District
taxes would be applied against the captured value in the tax increment
district. Relating that to current money of 12% over 8 years, which
Mr. Chenoweth felt was quite high, but using the maximum and being
very conservative, this would actually finance about $4,000,000.00
of bonds for this type of improvement. He suggested that the new
City Hall could be included in the district and provide for some
street and storm sewer construction. The matter had been checked
thoroughly with Briggs and Morgan and they advised it is possible
to use the money for storm sewer construction outside the district
(for connection to the St. Anthony Storm Sewer). •
He assured the people that property owners in the district or outside the
district would still pay the same taxes, the difference being that the
captured value of the new area is put into a special fund to pay back the
bonds. He explained that this can only go over a 10 year period with 8
increments and at that time the new value of the area would be distributed
to the City, County and School District.
Mayor Warkentien explained that the use of the tax increment financing
would necessitate a public hearing as not only would the City of Falcon
Heights forego for 10 years or 8 increments receiving taxes on the im-
provements, but also, the School District and the County would be in-
volved. Clerk-Administrator Barnes inquired as to whether or not the
funds could be invested to generate more revenue into the special account,
and was assured that the funds can be invested.
Mayor Warkentien also informed that in conjunction with the Comprehensive
Plan (mandated by Metropolitan Council) it was highly recommended that
the City solve the Falcon Heights drainage problem through a joint effort
with the City of St. Paul, University of Minnesota, State Fairgrounds and
Falcon Heights. This is a step in that direction and is one that the
City might otherwise never be able to afford.
MAYOR
WARKENTIEN
FISCAL CON-
SULTANT
CHENOWETH
MAYOR
WARKENTIEN
Larry Stowe informed that several members of the Task Force desired to LARRY STOWE
be heard to express their opinions. Mr. Stowe then commented on the
storm sewer discussion, agreed it was a fine thing to hope for, but
that it is no where near a reality at this time, and that the proposed
plan should not be approved on the basis that something that is in the
future.
Richard Gay, 1930 Summer presented to Council computations he had done RICHARD GAY
on possible taxes to be derived from the proposed project. He explained 1930 SUMMER
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING/PUBLIC HEARING
MARCH 10, 1982
PAGE 4
that he has entered into an agreement with the City of Columbia Heights
in a redevelopment district with tax increment financing and made the
following statements: (1) It was necessary to post a $1,000,000.00
performance bond to enter into the agreement, (2) tax increment financing
is usually used to develop undesirable properties which on its own would
not normally increase in growth, and (3) that rather than the City fore-
going the taxes on the area the problem of utilities and streets be solved
by a higher and better use for the property.
Mr. Gay then stated that Clerk Administrator Barnes had indicated the
development would generate $764,262.78 in additional tax revenue and Mr.
Chenoweth is talking of $800,000 plus taorth:of taxes Mr. Gay challenged
the basis of the projections and explained the basis for his own project-
ions, as indicated in the computation presented to Council. He commented
on the Hewlett-Packard development and suggested that the City continue
with that type of development.
L
Gus Hard, 1937 Autumn, addressed the trend of the decade, the increase
in the percentage of older citizens. He stated that on Autumn 55% of
the residents are 55 or older and made the following observations:
(1) older persons have reduced mobility, unable to afford automobile,
making walking in the neighborhood necessary and questioned where on
the development site there would be area for interaction, (2) the trend
has gone from the work to leisure ethic, where will the leisure time be
spent,. and (3) the development should be ecologically orientated,~not
the sweeping aside of a beautiful, heavily treed site. Mr. Hard stated
that the statement that everything on the site will be sold is not true.
He then commented on the wildlife in the area and that fact that there
is very little open space provided in the plan. He also felt that the
ponding areas would be attractive to children and would be difficult
to maintain.
~~
RICHARD GAY
(cont.)
GUS HARD
1937 AUTUMN
Florian Lauet-,1736 Tatum, stated he felt the proposed plan is a very FLORIAN LAUER
bad one which is at the expense of single family homeowners. He was 1736 TATUM
of the opinion that R-1 housing would provide more money in the long
run than a poorly planned, high density development and stated he had
never seen a community go wrong with single family dwellings.
Walter Northrup, 1942 Summer, made the following observations: (1) WALTER
Mr. Westin must question what do the people want, (2) the developer NORTHRUP
constantly changed plans, (3) the solidarity of the citizens in the 1942 SUMMER
Task Force demanding a right to the kind of development like the
one in the area in which they live, and (4) the group is only look-
ing for the rights they would get if they lived in any other
community.
Ray Garcia, 1906 Prior, stated his concerns in that when the residents RAY GARCIA
in his area moved in 26 years ago they moved in with the assurance that 1906 PRIOR
the land to the south would be developed R-1. He told of his neighbor-
hood being a concerned, cooperative, high quality neighborhood which is
now having a plan thrust upon it which would dramatically change the
area. He requested that the neighborhood be keptas it is.
Frank Irving, 1745 Tatum, questioned whether or not an 18" fence FRANK TRVING
could keep children out of the ponding areas. He also expressed fear 1745 TATUM
that the development might go into receivership creating the possibility
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING/PUBLIC HEARING
MARCH 10, 1982
PAGE 5
of even higher density. Hestressed that Council should realize before FRANK IRVING
approving a conceptual plan that concept plans have ways of slipping. (cont.)
Harold Nilsen, 1794 Tatum, a member of the Planning Commission, but HAROLD NILSEN
speaking as a private citizen explained that he has always been deeply 1794 TATUM
concerned with city affairs and with his background and knowledge of
the community would be derelict in his responsibility if he did not speak
up on the storm water so everyone could be fully informed. He explained'
that storm water surface drainage historical data had been distributed
to all parties and gave his comments on self-contained ponding and how
it can be accomplished. Mr. Nilsen commented on the problems caused
in the middle Tatum area due to run-off water from Falcon Woods and
the Hawkins/Hermes property and felt the ponding to be provided on the
site of the proposed development would be of assistance in alleviating
that problem. He also was of the opinion that it would make it possible
to reduce the "no build" area at the end of Lindig Street between Tatum
and Fairview and enable some additional development there. Mr. Nilsen
stated that as a Planning Commission member he had fought hard to maintain
the integrity of Falcon Woods and Tatum and that as a:resident of the
middle Tatum area he believed that the amenities that would be afforded
by the ponding of water on the development site was a right of those
residents.
Jim Colton, 1760 Tatum, stated he resides in the middle Tatum area JIM COLTON
and is getting tired of hauling mud out of his basement and has spent 1760 TATUM
a lot of money landscaping his yard in an attempt to ~o~ve the pr-oblem. '
However, Mr. Colton said he would rather have flooding than. a high
density developmentacross the street from his home.
Mr. Colton questioned the idea of tax increment financing as none of
the taxes to be paid by property owners in the development would go
to the City for 10 years. He inquired as to who would pay for policing,
fire protection and street upkeep.
Fiscal Consultant Chenoweth responded to Mr. Gay's comments by stating
that if his numbers were used for the total tax the City would have a
bond issue of approximately $1,450,00.00 that could be funded and that
the numbers Mr. Chenoweth had used were based on numbers provided by
Clerk Administrator Barnes and the current mill rate. If the mill rate
increases, which is possible, the total would be more than indicated.
Mr. Chenoweth then responded to Mr. Colton's comments regarding costs of
policing, etc. He explained that when tax increment is taken on there
are 8 years that no funds would be received for that development. There
would still be taxes from the base land and it is a decision Council
must make. He stated that the tax increment concept does have rewarding
elements and whenever there are rewards something is given in return.
Harold Westin commented that not a thing mentioned by any person has
gone unanswered and that this is not Arden Hills or North Oaks, it
is a different situation and that it would be in an area which is the
site of City Hall, the Fire Station and 2 apartment buildings. He
felt it would be a great bonus to the community. Mr. Westin indicated
that he had offered to meet with the neighborhood residents but was not
invited to attend the meeting.
FISCAL
CONSULTANT
CHENOWETH
HAROLD WESTIN
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING~PU}3LIC HEARING „~
MARCH 10, 1982
PAGE 6
Myles Aikin, 18l~9 Tatum, stated he took offense at the mistatements MYLES AI KIN
made by Mr. Westin when he said no one invited him to the meetings, 1819 TATUM
when in fact, Mr. Westin did attend a meeting at the Aikin home which
was attended by 20 neighbors. Mr. Westin replied that he regretted
he had failed to mention that meeting; however, he had offered to
attend any of the many meetings held but was not asked to attend.
Mark Ascerno, 1871 Tatum, stated he wished to refresh Mr. Westin's MARK ASCERNO
memory, as not only was the meeting held, but there were also a 1871 TATUM
number of items that were listed as points that were of a tremendous
concern to Falcon Woods/Tatum residents, road access, water and density.
Mr. Ascerno did not feel that there has been a give and take process
as American Shelter has resisted compromise at every turn. He was
of the opinion that compromise will be less likely in the future
if the plan is approved and he urged Council to reject the proposal.
Mr. Westin replied that the matter of water, access and density were HAROLD WESTIN
discussed and noted that the matter of water was answered, the question
of access was resolved, and the density has been reduced and he felt
the developer had been responsive to the residents.
Richard Elm, 1765 Tatum, did not believe that the water problem had RICHARD ELM
been solved as he felt his three small children and other children 1765 TATUM
in the neighborhood will play in the water holes after each rain,
and there must be an alternative plan. He strongly urged Council•to
reject the plan.
Thomas Goodman, Attorney for American Shelter Corporation requested THOMAS GOODM®i
Council's indulgence to listen to his remarks on comments already ATTORNEY FOR
made during the evening and on some items within his area of expertise AMERICAN
which includes making a living off suing city hall a lot of the time. SHELTER
He said he did not mean to threaten the city math that, but, do have
a peculiar perspective on what a city can or cannot do and they
certainly can do this plan. He then stated that the city has spent
a great deal of money on professional consultants, both engineers and
planners, who have reviewed the plan, had a great deal of input into
the negotiating, which the ordinance contemplates, and together with
the Planning Commission have approved the plan with the modifications
suggested. He reminded those in attendance that Planner Carl Dale has
prepared a permit, conditions of wYiich runs with the land, and governs
all sorts of things. In answer to concerns regarding maintenance, he
stated that the property will not be maintained by single families, but
by an association which would assure maintenance of a high grade.
Mr. Goodman commented on the plan changes and the fact that changes were
designed t o improve with the process, that is the reason for a Planning
Commission. He assured that this. preliminary plan, if approved, could
not be changed without Council permission. Mr. Goodman said he felt
that the objections to the plan, basically, revolves around the density
issue aid explained that a certain density is necessary for logical
reasons such as anaf'fordable cost to prospective purchasers. He also
commented on park land dedication or cash in lieu of land, as that
cost would be added on to the cost of the homes. In reply to r/Ir.
Steilen°s statement regarding the outcome of court cases in which
cities have refused rezoning, Mr. Goodman stated that it is an easy to
attach as to defend.
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MrETING~PUt~LIC P~;ARING
MARCH 10, 1982
PAGE 7
Mayor Warkentien commented on the fact that the people at the hearing
had been pleasant in spite of a difficult evening except for Mr. Goodman
who, he felt, was completely out of line to threaten to sue the City.
Terry Brennan, President of American Shelter Corporation apologized for
Mr. Goodman's comments and informed he had no intent to deprive anyone
on Tatt~n or in Falcon Woods, but that he simply wanted to use the land
fora plan that is legal, where homes can be built and sold to people
who need them. He also stated he did not intend to sue the City ar to
go into receivership, but that he understood the zeal of people when
overwhelmed by changes. Mr. Brennan explained that he had asked
competent people to draw up the plans to fit the land, has spent much
money on the project and could not cut up the lots and sell for single
family homes as it is not economically feasible due to land costs today.
His intent is to build buildings which would be very appealing and
affordable .
He inf ormed that the project just completed by American Shelter, was.
financed by Union Pension Funds, the financers~rere pleased and are going
to go in on this project.
Mr. Brennan stressed that the plan was a result of input from the Tatum
Falcon Woods residents and the Planning Commission, and that he would be
willing to go with townhouses along Tatum (as opposed to the proposed
condominium) even though it w ould be expensive. The buildings would be
equally as nice as any house on Tatum or the north, ald that American
Shelter is only requesting to make use of the land.
Carl Dale, Planner f'or Falcon Heights, gave a resume of his experience
and the many projects in which rie has been involved. He replied to Mr.
Miller's comments on the Falcon Heights PUD by stating that he, himself,
had written many PUI) ordinances and that he felt the Falcon Heights
Ordinance gave the developer flexibility while allowing the City to
maintain complete control over construction and maintenance. He also
stressed the fact that any changes made in the plan were made due to
suggestions made by himself, residents and the other professionals.
Mr. Dale stated he felt the proposed project had a good density, would
guarantee quality homes, solve flooding problems, traffic problems have
been resolved and the City Comprehensive Plan calls for the area to be
PUD. He also mentioned the fact that the development was needed to
assure the City's population staying above 5,000 as it was possible that
within ten years the population would go under 5,000, thus making the
City ineligible for State Aid Funds, which would cause a tax increase
for the entire community.
Mr. Dale stated that his studies over the ~~ag~e ~.8 years show such de-
velopments do not lower values o.f' adjoining properties unless there are
unsightly things such as glaring lights on parking lots, and recommended
that the plan and rezoning be approved under the conditions and terms
set forth.
Mark Ascerno, 1871 'Tatum, refuted ~u1r. Dale's comments regarding t he
decline in population. He stated he had talked to Dorothy Oatman and
Mike Munson of Pdetro Council, which prepares those figures, a nd they
consider Falcon Heights a stable community, a community which can in-
crease or decrease by 100 in a ten year span which puts the population
of Falcon Heights in the next ten years at roughly 5,200 as opposed to
~~
MAYOR
1NARKENTIEN
TERRY
BRENNAN
AMERICAN
SHELTER
CARL DALE
PLANNER
MARK ASCERNO
1871 TATUM
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL r~~ETING/PUt3LIC H~~ARING
MARCH 10, 1982
PAGE 8
Mr. Dale's below 5,000 figure. Mr. Ascerno stated that other figures
have accumulated which strongly suggest, and these very people agree,
that it is very likely that Falcon Heights is at the bottom of the
population decrease and is apt to see a population increase in the
future.
Councilmember Larson, Council Liaison to the Planning Commission COUNCIL-
responded to some of the comments made during the evening as follows: b~ER
(1) Access to Cleveland Avenue: C.~uoted from a letter dated January CARSON
!~, 1982, from Clinton Hewitt, Assistant Vice President of Physical
Planning, University of Minnesota, indicating that the Planning Staff
has reviewed the plans and the request for right-of way across University
property for roadway purposes and that they generally believe the proposed
uses would be compatible with Campus activities, however, citing their
concerns regarding traffic and the concentration of residential units
near important agricultural land. Mr. Hewitt requested a meeting to discuss
the concerns to expedite a f anal decision. She expressed concern that it
would be necessary to expend a great deal of money (both residents and the
City) for widening of Cleveland to provide ample space ,for fire trucks
to have access, and possibly a semaphore at Roselawn and Cleveland.
(2) Larpenteur and Fairview: Informed that word has been received
by the City that, at some time in the future when funds are available,
the County will place a semaphore at Fairview and Larpenteur.
(3) Danger to Children by Ponding Areas: Gave a personal comment
regarding children being attracted to the ponds, stated that she had
raised two children on a busy street a nd she watched her children
to see that they did not cross the street or fall into lakes. She
felt that the residents did not mean to come across as meaning to
let their children run free and that it was the City's responsibility
to keep the childrerif'rom falling into the ponds, and that it is the
parents' responsibility to protect their children, not the City.
Councilmember Larson also stated that Council, in making this con-
sideration, must look at the time and the effort that the Planning
Corrunission Members have spent in order to come up with a plan beneficial..
to the City. She then commented on Al Stefanson's statement that when
he was sworn in to the Planning Commission he would try to be fair and
impartial at all times and to keep a clear and open mind, and he many
times reminded the Planning Commission to do the same. Councilmember
Larson stated that the Planning Commission had worked with the residents
and Mr. V~~estin for months before any approval was given. She assured
the residents that she understood their feelings about having a change
in the area as it is difficult to have changes in neighborhoods.
Mayor V1'arkentien closed the Public Hearing at 10:19 and thanked all for PUBLIC
their participation. MEETING
CLOSED
Councilmember Larson moved, seconded by Councilmember Ciernia, that
the PUD request be anoroved as was recommended by the Planning Commission COUNCIL-
at their March 1, 1982 Public Hearing, which would include that access MEMBER.
to Cleveland be resolved with the University of Minnesota Board of Regents, CARSON
dedication of right-of-way and construction of improvements, include a
schedule of the development for the project including the final plan and
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MF:F,TING~PiJ~tLIC H4ARING
MARCH 10, 1982 ~~
PAGE 9
all detailed plans drawn at that time, and that the City determine that
cash be received in lieu of land (the stipulations were recommended by
Attorney Swanson) and that Plan Drawing P-1B dated 10 March, 1982 as a
modified layout of PUD approved as submitted arrd described by Falcon
Heights Planning Commission on March 1, 1982.
Councilmember Ciernia inquired as to whether or not there v,ould be COUNCIL-
provisions for percolation of the ponding water as stipulated in the MEMBER
February 25, 1982 Engineer's Report and the depth of the water in the CIERNIA~
ponds. Mr. Westin assured that the system does include a percolation WESTIN
system and that the ponds, which will be within a landscaped area, would
at times have about two feet of water in them .with three to four feet
in some areas.
Councilmember Ciernia then questioned the matter of security as the
plans call for an 18 inch mesh fence. Iu(r. Westin replied that the mesh
will be in dense bushes and is meant to prevent toddlers from going
through, as he felt it would be impossible to attempt to keep older.
children out.
1
In response to a question from Councilnrember Ciernia, Mr. Westin stated
they would make changes in resubmitted plans if Co,;ncil so requests.
Councilmember Ciernia then asked if American Shelter intended to be the CIERNIA &
developer through the entire project. iuir. Brennan replied that he is BRENNAN
the major stockholder, they own the land, they are committed to d lot
of people and American Shelter will be totally responsible. He added
that they may or may not take in a joint venture with them, but American
Shelter will be in control.
Mayor VVarkentien asked if they might sell tyre land, let someone else
develop it and Mr. 33rennen stated he would not sell the land.
Councilmember Ciernia commented on Mr. Dale's list of specifications
regarding how the development will be done and responsibilities of the
association, details which, he felt, many homeowners would not accept
and wanted to know if those specifications were part of the motion.
Attorney Swanson informed that it is a part of the motion and suggested
that when action is taken on a final plan that Council go through the
conditions and determine whether or not they want to add or delete some.
Mr. Brennen assured that American Shelter is aware of the conditions and
commented on the covenants governinY; his other development, which are
more strict t han the one in Carl Dale's permit.
WARKENTIEN &
BRENNAN
CIERNIA,
SWANSON &
BRENNAN
Councilmember Ciernia then inquired as to the average sale price for CIERNIA &
the units and Don Swendra, Vice President of American Shelter, responded SWENDRA
that the condominium will sell for X90,000 and up, townhouses from
X100,000 to $120,000 and single f.'amily homes closer to X200,000.
Councilmember Chestovich stated she did not have any argument with the COUNCIL-
PUD but her concerns are density, tr•af'fic, water, performance bond, open MEMBER
space, recreation, solar, overa]1 land use and she was not comfortable with CHESTOVICH
the contemplation of a Cleveland access. She did not think that is good
enough and there are, obviously, many unanswered questions. She expressed
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING~PUI3LIC HEARING
MARCH 10, 1982
PAGE 10
~~
concern that if the preliminary plan is approved, Council might not be
able to enforce their position because of non-specifics with the ordinance.
Councilmember Chestovich felt that a lot of the trouble was from the fact
that the situation was new to everyone and that she intended to act for the
good of the people and to be responsive to their desires.
Councilmember Eggert explained that his concept of zoning is in opposition COUNCIL-
to what had been stated during the evening, that he felt zoning is a trust MEMBER
which the City holds on behalf of not only the adjacent property owners, EGGERT
but the City as a whole, that the trust should not be violated even if the
specifics of the zoning are changed, that in a PUD the density should not
vary much or at all from the density of the pre-existing zoning, and if
it is increased it should increase only as the result of certain amenities
that are granted by the developer and because of the way he concieves
zoning, he did not feel this PUD would meet his requirements for a change
from R-1 to PUD. He stated he is not opposed to PUDs, but is opposed to
this particular PUD because of the fact that the density has been
increased by a factor of more than two. Councilmember Eggert also
conunented on the opinion expressed by the developer that the project
would be cxot be affordable at a lesser density. He did not agree with that
opinion and felt that if the piece of _and cannot be developed at the
price the seller is asking, given the present zoning, then the price
of the land is too much.
Councilmember Eggert stated that relative to the question of amenities
and also other considerations that have been brought up, drainage,
traffic, recreation, open space, etc., it was his view that the whole
project has gone this far because the Planning Commission really was
not using any criteria, specific criteria, on which to base their
decisions. He felt that if density is a consideration, then the
Planning Commission or the City Council with the advice of the Planning
Commission, perhaps, should establish criteria so developers know
exactly where they stand before making a proposal that would get to
this stage and that the same applies to recreation, open space and
drainage. Councilmember Eggert stated he had expressed to many of the
residents who were in attendance, that the City does have the opportunity
with the PUD to address not only the drainage problem of the 26 acres but
also the drainage problems of the whole area and that the concept needs
to be explored in detail before any PUD is granted. He stated he,
personally, was in favor of a moratorium on any zoning changes in the
City until very specific criteria are established by the Planning
Commission with input of the citizens and presented to the Council for
adoption. This criteria would be to establish when and how certain
zoning changes would be allowed.
Mayor Warkentien stated he felt Council had enough inf ormation to make MOTION TO
a decision and called for the vote. Upon a vote being taken, the follow- APPROVE PUD
ing voted in favor thereof: Mayor lNarkentien, Councilmembers Larson and REQUEST
Ciernia, and the following voted against the same: Councilmembers Eggert DEFEATED
and Chestovich. Motion failed.
[1
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING/PU}3LIC HEARING
MkRCH 10, 1982
PAGE 11
Councilmember Ciernia moved, seconded by Councilmember Larson that the CONSENT
Consent Agenda be approved as presented. Motion carried unanimously. AGENDA
APPROVED
1. Fire Report #F-00532
2. Rescue Reports #R-01282 - #R-01882
3. Lauderdale Fire Report #L-02282
!~. Lauderdale Rescue Report #LR-02282
5. Liquor Payroll 2/16/82 - 2/28/82 ~ 3,077.82
6. General Payroll 2/16/82 - 2/28/82 ?~ 5,11t1t.~t9
7. General Disbursements 2/25/82 - 3/10/82 $ 36,993.42
8. Liquor Disbursements 2/23/82 - 3/8/82 $ 15,211.111
9. General Corporate License #8011 - 2 Amusement Machines at Shakey's
Pizza
Advance Carter Co.
850 Decatur Avenue North
Minneapolis, MN 5527
10. Liquor Store Financial Report, January, 1982
Councilmember Eggert explained that the North Suburban Cable Commission CABLE ~
has requested additional funds from the participat9_ng communities, which COMMISSION
amounts will be returned to the cities after the franchise is granted. GRANTED AN
Councilmember Eggert moved, seconded by Councilmember Larson, that the ADDITIONAL
City make the temporary expenditure of X2,000 as requested. Motion $2,000
carried unanimously.
Councilmember Eggert requested that Council and Attorney Swanson review
the preliminary draft of the North Suburban Cable Commission Joint Powers
Agreement #2 in order that it may be discussed at the March 2I~, 1982
meeting.
The Minutes of February 21G, 1982 were deferred to the March 211, 1982 MINUTES
meeting. DEFERRED
Attorney Swanson informed Council that he had responded to Brian Solem, ATTORNEY
Attorney for the Jehovah Vaitness groups, and that he had determined REPLIES TO
Ordinance #131, which relates to issuing of permits to non-profit ATTORNEY FOR
organizations going door-to-door, is not unconstitutional. JEHOVAH
WITNESSES
Councilmember Larson informed that she had discussed Senate File 786
with Chief Renchin and that he felt the law did not affect the Falcon
Heights Fire Department as their by-laws will not allow them to expend SENATE FILE-
more than is in the fund, unless they come directly to Council and re- 786 FIRE
quest funds through an ad vat orem tax. Councilmember Eggert said he RELIEF
had, also, talked to CYrief Renchin acrd was told that the way the ASSOCIATIONS
pension fund is set up the law really does not apply to Falcon Heights.
Ne suggested Attorney Swanson check into the matter and give an opinion
at the next meeting.
Councilmember Chestovich requested that Council consider placing an SPECIAL
item on the agenda each meeting providing a period of time for citizen AGENDA ITE~d
concerns. Mayor Warkentien stated that citizens have always been heard FOR CITIZEN
at meetings and that Council has been attempting to discourage "add ons" CONCERNS
DEEMED
UNNECESSARY
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL nf?'ETING/PUBLIC HEARING
MARCH 10, 1982
PAGE 12
to agenda. Councilmember Eggert also felt the present ~~card system"
works well. Following the discussion, Mayor Warkentien moved, seconded
by Councilmember Larson, that a period of discussion specifically set
forth, not be added t o the agenda. Upon a vote being taken, the
following voted in favor thereof: Mayor Warkentien, Councilmembers
Eggert, Larson and Ciernia, and the following voted against the same:
Councilmember Chestovich. Motion carried.
Councilmember Chestovich inquired as to whether or not any Councilmember
or staff person had been approached by any one, private parties or
school districts, concerning the use of the Falcon Heights School
property should the school close. Councilmember Chestovich explained
that she has had many persons ask her the question and would like to
know how to reply. All Councilmembers and staff replied in the
negative.
~~
SCHOOL
PROPERTY
DISCUSSION
Councilmember Chestovich moved, seconded by Councilmember Eggert, that
a resolution be passed to support the P.T.A. and the Board in their
efforts to keep the Falcon Heights School open. Mayor Warkentien
stated that he felt his letter to the School Board explaining the City
stand on the matter was sufficient. Councilmember Ciernia said he has
carefully explained that he is representing himself' and his family, not
the City, in the matter. Upon a vote being taken, the following-voted
in favor thereof: Councilmembers Chestovich and Eggert, and the
following voted against the same: Mayor Ularkentien, Councilmembers
Larson and Ciernia. Motion failed. •
u
fj
Councilmember Larson commented on the letter received from Occupational LETTER FROM
Health Services dated February 26, 1982 relating to physicals f'or vol- OCCUPATIONAL
unteer firemen and indicated that the Fire Department did not agree with HEALTH
the letter. SERVICE NOTED
A letter dated January 27, 1982 from the Alexander Ramsey PISA regarding
sale of alcohol to minors was noted.
Clerk Administrator }~arnes reported that the Municipal Liquor Store was
robbed of X1,166.61 on March 5, 1982.
Councilmember Ciernia moved, seconded by Councilmember Larson, that the
meeting be adjourned at 11:35 p.M. Motion carried unanimously.
illis C. A. War entien, Mayor ~~'
Attest:
~ ~
,D.~~
ewan B. Barnes, Clerk Administrator
PISA LETTER
NOTED
LI~?UOR STORE
ROBBED
ADJOURNMENT
Regular City Council Meeting/Public Hearing of March 10, 1982