HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCMin_80May28MINUTES
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 28, 1980
A regular meeting of the Falcon Heights City Council was called to
order by Mayor Warkentien at 7:30 p.m.
Mayor Warkentien, Councilmembers Steele, Brown, Eggert and Larson. Also PRESENT
present were Clerk Administrator Barnes, Attorney Galvin and Engineer Lemberg.
None.
Councilmember Larson moved, seconded by Councilmember Brown that the Consent
Agenda be approved. Motion carried unanimously.
1. Liquor Store Payroll 5/1/80-5/15/80 $ 1,940.13
2. General Payroll 5/1/80-5/15/80 $ 5,027.75
3. Liquor Disbursements 5/13/80-5/27/80 $18,034.19
4. General Disbursements 5/15/80-5/28/80 $24,903.23
Sinking Fund $ 7,298.00
5. Citizens Advisory Committee on Cable TV Minutes of May 8, 1980
6. Citizens Advisory Committee on Cable TV Minutes of May 22, 1980
7. Rescue Reports R-02180 - R-02480
8. Fire Reports F-01880 and F-01980
9. Human Rights Commission Minutes of March 20, 1980
10. Liquor Store Financial Report, April 1980
11. Licenses:
Master Gas Installer's License ~~373
Willard Krinkie
The Snelling Company
1400 Concordia
St. Paul, MN 55104
Master Gas Installer's License ~~374
Fred Vogt ~ Company
3260 Gorham Ave. S.
St. Louis Park, MN 55426
Master Gas Installer's License 4375
Suburban Heating & Air Conditioning
2050 White Bear Ave.
St. Paul, MN 55109
ABSENT
CONSENT
AGENDA
APPROVED
MINUTES
REGULAR CITY
MAY 28, 1980
PAGE 2
COUNCIL MEETING
Master Gas Installer's License ~t376
George Sedgwick Heating S Air Conditioning
1001 Xenia Ave. S.
Minneapolis, MN 55416
Master Gas Installer's License 4377
Ray N. Welter Heating Co.
4637 Chicago Ave.
Minneapolis, MN 55407
General Corporate License ~f~626 - Tree_Trimming & Removal
Green Leaf Tree Service, Inc.
40 Pleasant Ave.
St. Paul Park, MN 55071
General Corporate X641 - Tree Trimming ~ Removal
Northland Tree Service
6074 Hodgson Rd.
Circle Pines, MN
General Corporate X642 - Refuse Hauling
Poor Richard's Inc.
400 Whitall
St. Paul, MN 55101
General Corporate #636 - Fi11inQ Station
Hamline-Hoyt Service
1565 N. Hamline
Falcon Heights, MN 55108
General Corporate ~~644 - Restaurant
Mando Photo
1790 W. Larpenteur
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
General Corporate X643
Mando Photo
1790 W. Larpenteur
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
General Corporate #640 - Restaurant
Flameburger
1533 W. Larpenteur
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
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MINUTES
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 28, 1980
PAGE 3
General Corporate #639
Malone Graphics, Inc.
1545 W. Larpenteur
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
General Corporate 4638
Champion Auto Store ~~238
1532 W. Larpenteur
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
General Corporate ~1~637
Bucks Unpainted Furniture, Inc.
1639 W. Larpenteur
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
General Corporate ~~635 - Restaurant
Chin's Kitchen
1644 N. Snelling
Falcon Heights, MN 55108
General Corporate ~~623
Thatcher Chiropractic Clinic
1347 W. Larpenteur
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
General Corporate ~~634
Warners' Stellian Co., Inc.
1711 N. Snelling
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
General Corporate 4633
Keither, Inc. dba/K & K Hardware
1535 W. Larpenteur
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
General Corporate 4632
Ann's Tailoring Shop
1548 W. Larpenteur
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
General Corporate X6631
Karla's Hair Fashions
1547 W. Larpenteur
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
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MINUTES
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING
~ MAY 28, 1980
PAGE 4
General Corporate 44630
Suburban Credit Plan, Inc.
1701 N. Snelling
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
General Corporate #628
One Hour Martinizing
1407 W. Larpenteur
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
General Corporate 44627
DeLange Dancers Studio
1550 W. Larpenteur
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
General Corporate 41625
Wondra's Piano ~ Organ Co.
1526 W. Larpenteur
Falcon Heights, MN 55113
General Corporate 41624 - Restaurant
Northstar Pizza Corp./Shakey's Pizza
1552 W. Larpenteur
Falcon Heights, MN
Councilmember Brown moved, seconded by Councilmember Larson, that the MINUTES OF
Minutes of May 14, 1980 be approved as corrected. Upon a vote being taken MAY 14,
the following voted "aye": Mayor Warkentien, Councilmembers Brown and 1980
Eggert and the following voted "nay": None. Councilmembers Steele and APPROVED
Larson abstained. Motion carried.
Mayor Warkentien presented for Council's consideration Resolution 80-14
establishing the rate of assistance for shade tree removal on private
property. Councilmember Steele moved, seconded by Councilmember Brown
that the resolution be adopted. Motiion carried unanimously.
RESOLUTION 80-14 RESOLUTION
80-14
A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING THE RATE OF ASSISTANCE
FOR SHADE TREE SANITATION OF PRIVATE PROPERTY
UNDER MINNESOTA STATUTE 18.023
Mayor Warkentien read a letter from Vernon Kassekert, Borgstrom Pharmacy, 1 HOUR
1583 N. Hamline, and Gerald Patrick, Hamline Foods, 1579 N. Hamline re- PARKING
questing that "1 hour parking" signs be installed in front of those busi- AT 1579
messes. After a short discussion Councilmember Larson moved, seconded AND 1583
by Councilmember Steele that "1 hour parking" signs be installed at N. HAMLINE
MINUTES ~ ,(~
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING `#
MAY 28, 1980
PAGE 5
at 1579 N. Hamline and 1583 N. Hamline. Motion carried unanimously.
Mayor Warkentien read a letter from G. J. Mannering, 1865 Fairview,
regarding his objections to the newspaper tubes and mail boxes on
the boulevard. Clerk Administrator Barnes informed that Mr. Mannering
had already been contactea regarding the newspaper tubes. Mayor
Warkentien and the Clerk Administrator will contact the Post Office
to inquire as to whether or not the residents on Fairview, Tatum
and Lindig could have "to the door mail delivery" rather than the
mail boxes at the curb.
Mayor Warkentien presented to Council a request from the Falcon
Heights Elementary School PTA for a donation of $500.00 for play-
ground equipment. Councilmember Eggert felt that more playground
equipment is needed at the school since it is used extensively by
children living in that area. Councilmember Steele felt that more
equipment is not necessary and since no money was budgeted for that
purpose the request should be denied. Councilmember Steele moved
seconded by Councilmember Larson that the request be denied. Upon
a vote being taken the following voted "aye": Mayor Warkentien,
Councilmembers Steele, Brown and Larson, and the following voted
"nay": Councilmember Eggert. Motion carried.
Councilmember Eggert presented a request from the Human Rights
Commission for permission to expend $60.00 for some members of that
group to attend the State Human Rights Convention. Councilmember
Eggert moved, seconded by Councilmember Brown that the expenditure
be authorized. Motion carried unanimously.
Councilmember Eggert provided an update on the Cable TV situation.
The meetings with other communities irvolved in the proposed service
territory are often held on the same evening as the Falcon Heights
Council, thus making it impossible for Councilpersonsfrom Falcon
Heights to attend. Councilmember Eggert has suggested that the group
involved discuss the possibility ~f having future Cable TV Meetings
be held on a rotating basis if no onP night is convenient for all
communities. If the meeting date cant. t be changed Councilmember
Eggert thought perhaps one of the knowledgeable ~,ersons on the Cable
TV Citizen's Advisory Committee might act as intermediary.
1 HOUR PARKING
(cont.)
POST OFFICE TO
BE CONTACTED
REGARDING MAIL
BOXES ON TATUM,
LINDIG, AND
FARIVIEW
PTA REQUEST rOR
$500.00 DENIED
$60.00 EXPENDI-
TURE FOR HUMAN
RIGHTS APPROVID
CABLE TV UPDATE
Mayor Warkentien informed Council that the City has received a response UNIVERSITY
from the University of Minnesota regarding the placement of anew park APPROVES PROPOSE
shelter in the Community Park at Roselawn and Cleveland. The University PARR SHELTER
did grant permission with the following stipulations: (1) the shelter
must be 100 feet from the nearest edge of the southernmost pond,(2) posts
and footings must be installed in accordance with the drawing enclosed in
the letter, (3) contractor must remove all debris created by construction,
(4) no dumping of debris in pond area, (5) a permanent fixed trash receptacle
be placed at the shelter and (6) that the University incurs no costs of any
kind. No problem was found with any of the stipulations except for the
plans for the footings and Council requested that Park Development Chair-
person Janet Brawn present the plans to the contractor in order that he
might determine whether or not the footing requirements would increase
the cost above the allocated amount ($4,450.00).
MINUTES
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 28, 1980
PAGE 6
~~
Councilmember Eggert moved, seconded by Councilmember Brown that Item ITEM 5g of
Sg of the May 14, 1980 Agenda (authorizing Bonestroo, Rosene, Anderlik MAY 14 AGENDA
and Associates to proceed with preliminary plans for construction of RESCINDED
a new City Hall) be rescinded in order that the matter could be discussed
further. Motion carried unanimously.
Councilmember Eggert informed that he felt there had aot been enough
discussion before expending money for preliminary plans and he thought
the following three items were necessary: (a) a public statement of
intent from GTA, (b) preliminary assurance from the University of
Minnesota that they were willing to discuss the possibility that some
land might be available, and (c) a financial feasibility study before
committing funds for a project. He also stated he felt the fact that
3 Councilmembers, Clerk Administrator and Engineer toured new city
halls recently designed by the City~s Engineering Firm, constituted
a closedmeeting and such meetings are illegal.
In response to these questions Attorney Galvin offered Council a legal
opinion as follows:
''the role of the City Attorney is to answer those legal questions which
are presented by the Council, occasionally there are questions which are
presented by individual Council Members, but the City Attorney attempts
to apply the law, as he understands it, to a particular set of facts
as presented by the Council.
NEW CITY HALL
DISCUSSION
ATTORNEY GALVIr
After a brief conversation with Attorney Kenefick (who was unable to
attend this meeting) I discussed the agenda with Mr. Barnes and I dis-
cussed the matter briefly with Mayor Warkentien, as generally is the custom
of the City Attorney before a meeting. I had no discussion with anyone
else.
We have referred to the two statutes that are applicable. One is the General
City Statute which is contained in Chapter 412, and says that all meetings
of public bodies shall be public and the second one is the statute that we
have all reference to called "The Open Meeting Law". The "Open Meeting Law"
was first adopted in 1957 and substantially amended in 1973. Since 1973
there have been two Supreme Court cases construiAg the Statute. Several
opinions of the Attorney General deal ~~ith speci~ic factual settings _
which are presented by a body such as a school district or a city for
an advisory opinion. Those are, of course, advisory only and are directed
only to a specific set of facts and a specific municipality.
There are also two or three, what we call unreported decisions of various
District Court cases which we assemble on a repository of back ground in-
formation resource material as they occur, so that we are aware of the
current decisions of the courts as they apply to issues arising over
public meetings.
With that background I have to say that this is a developing area of law
and you have to apply the provisions of the statute to each particular set
of facts. There are two issues that you look at when the issue of whether
or not a meeting is public or not public arises. The first is a quorum.
('
U
MINUTES
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 28, 1980
PAGE 7
',
~'V
We have here a City Council of five and obviously 3 is a quorum. However, ATTORNEY GALVI
the Attorney General, in what is described as a controversial opinion, (cont.)
has said that when even two members of a City Council of five get to-
gether and discuss a matter relating to City business of any substance,
that constitutes a so called meeting. With that issue most municipal
attorneys .(end we represent a number of agencies and cities) disagree.
The second issue is deliberation. What deliberations occur when two,
three, four or five councilmembers get together at a time and circum-
stance which are not generally announced? Keep in mind that regularly
scheduled meetings do not require any public notice.
A rule of reason is applied by the courts and they look at each set of
facts and each recollection of each participant and they apply a rule of
reason. Basically, the issue is "are there discussions, did they deal
with matters within the council's powers". If council discusses who
is going to win the ball game tonight that has nothing to do with what
is within the council's powers.
A third test that is applied is "are they substantive matters, do they
normally lead to the kinds of discussions and conclusions that result in
decision making and do those discussions result in a decision that was
made in a meeting which was not a public meeting which infers some re-
quirement that the public have notice first. The decision making of a
city council in meetings is both a subjective and objective test. Viewing
the discussion we have had this evening there is a difference of opinion:
(a) what occurred at the viewing of the buildings, and (b) whether there
were deliberative discussions which led to a conclusion. Basically, I
think, there is a difference of opinion as to what kind of information
a mature city council needs in order to make a decision of this nature,
and secondly what order does the decision come in. Must there be a concept
of what the cost of the building would be versus what kind of information
do you need as to the market for the building visavis the availability of the
University to grant other properties to the Municipality, And there are
points at which reasonable people's minds will differ and there will be no
unity of concept.
Having in mind that the purpose of the "Open Meeting Act" is to prohibit
deliberative bodies - legislative bodies from making decisions without the
public being privy to those discussions, not necessarily having the right
to particpate in those disucussions, because each municipality handles
this decision making in a different manner. There is no requirement that
there be public participation or that surveys be made, but in general, each
municipality approaches those decisions as they determine,based on their
gollect_9f experience and judgement.
Given the limited knowledge of the facts, and in the limited time available,
we do not see a violation of the Minnesota Open Meeting Act. We draw
on our own experience in other municipalities, our experience of advice
given to other legislative and deliberative bodies.
I might call to the attention of the Council, a body such as the St. Paul
City Council has consistently been sending two, three and four members of
its Council on fact finding missions. Committies will go, for example,
MINUTES
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 28, 1980
PAGE 8
i on Cable TV matters, they have visited upwards of eight or nine muni-
cipalities in which they are basically fact finding missions where
presumably there is not deliberative discussions or decisions made.
They are merely exercising the opportunity to acquire the information
necessary to make a decision. That, I think, Mr. Mayor and Members
of the Council, is our judgement on the matter before you".
Councilmember Larson moved, seconded by Mayor Warkentien that Council
again approve the expenditure of up to $1,000.00 for the purpose of
having the City Engineer prepare plans of sufficient detail so that
they may be used to approach the University of Minnesota to see whether
they would be able and willing to supply the City with a plot of land
on a lease basis, which could be used for a City Hall.
+1~
CITY HALL
ATTORNEY GALVI
(cont.)
Councilmember Steele inquired of Engineer Lemberg if in his dealing with COUNCILMEMBER
communities, this is standard practice or if there is first a financial STEELE AND
feasibility study. Engineer Lemberg informed that his firm works in ENGINEER
approximately 45 communities and it is now a practice that the council LEMBERG
so order a preliminary lay-out of what is necessary. For example, in
this case, before we can talk to anyone whether it be the University or a
private property owner, you must know approximately how much land is need-
ed and to determine the amount of land it is necessary to know what kind
of a facility is being considered. He informed that this is a very normal
procedure. From experience he has found it to be very difficult to approach
a planning commission or a zoning committee, etc. unless you can show some
sort of a plan. He explained that he had met with the Fire Chief, the
Staff, and Public Works Staff in order to find out what the needs are.
He also informed that from experience dealing with the University of
Minnesota, they will not ..even. talk to you unless you have something on
paper to show them.
After some further discussion a vote was called. The following members
voted "aye": Mayor Warkentien, Councilmembers Steele, Brown and Larson,
and the following voted "nay": Councilmember Eggert. Motion carried.
Mayor Warkentien stated that over the years Councilsnembers have often met
in his home or homes of other Councilmembers,following meetings, to visit.
He asked the Attorney if that is a private meeting.
Attorney Galvin replied as follows: "The Attorney General says "yes"
but we say "no" and I think the reason for that is that those are not
deliberative discussions which normally lead to conclusions leading to
final decisions. In other words it is our observation that there is
generally an ongoing discourse between responsible members of a city
council, that they are exchanging ideas on a "one to one" basis. The
Attorney General suggests in his advisory opinion that two members of
a city council of five discussing city business together constitutes
a public meeting. No court has agreed with that judgement. That judge-
ment is described as controversial and contradicted in the village hand-
books and I think that is a conclusion we reached over a number of years
since that particular opinion has been in circulation.
I would make this suggestion, however. In the absence of any clear cut
definition by statute or court decision that a rule of reason and a
cautionary approach to those matters should probably be adopted. I said
APPROVAL OF
ABOVE MOTION
MAYOR AND
ATTORNEY
PRIVATE MEET-
ING INFORMAT-
ION
MINUTES
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 28, 1980
PAGE 9
C earlier that I started attending these meetin s
g dust about 20 years ago ATTORNEY
and one or two of you were already sitting here. I think it would be GALVIN (cont.;
fair to say that any legislative body should keep itself above criticism
and when the rules are not clearly stated and when the courts themselves
disagree, you probably should not have informal discussions at which a
full quorum of three out of the five would discuss, in an orderly fashion,
any municipal business. Not that it is going to be a deliberative, serious
discussion leading to a conclusion, or a decision that would be outside the
scope of the normal public meeting, but it is the kind of discussion over
which controversy would arise at some point in the future. But there is
an information gathering process where two or more members of city councils
constantly attend conferences, meetings, League of Municipalities, you sit
at a committee meeting, you discuss matters with other city councilmen
and if there are two or three members of the City of Falcon Heights
Council there or three or four of the City of Minneapolis and St. Paul,
which have larger quorums, frankly that is not a public meeting.
There are decisions we have received where the courts have tried to create
exceptions to the "Open Meeting" Statute and the Supreme Court does not
always agree. The Supreme Court held in the case of Credit River, that
there was no penalty for aot giving notice of a public meeting and the
action taken at the meeting, which was held not to be a public meeting,
was valid because there was no penalty declaring the action taken to
be invalid. I think as I said at the beginning of the meeting, that this
( is an area of developing law and we can chart general rules, we can apply
the two Supreme Court cases and we can apply the Attorney General's opinion
where we agree with them, to specific factual decisions and say that is
"O.K."or that is a "no no". I think what you have done here, you have a
basic disagreement on the process by which you gather information, and
controversy is usually good because you do air those issues and you get
them on the table. There might be a few ruffled feelings but that has
historically been part of the democratic process. If there were not a
few ruffled feelings at a Falcon Heights Meeting I'd feel I was at the
wrong meeting. It is an area in which reasonable people disagree but,
Willis, I don't know of any reason why you should stop your general ex-
change of information and opinions but, I think that probably until the
legislation is amended or clarified or the Supreme Court finally decides
what really constitutes a public meeting or defines deliberative discussion
it is likeCaesar's wife, one should avoid all opportunities where one
could be criticized. You still have the information gathering process
and if you have an energy crisis you shouldn't be sending five people
out in five cars with Brad, but there should be some orderly approach.
Willis, as you know it is hard to be definitive in these matters but this
is one of those instances where it appears to be within the parameters of
permissible conduct. Not every body will agree, obviously I disagree
with the Attorney General and I have been around long enought to be able
to tell him two or three times that he was wrong."
Councilmember Larson, who is Planning Commission Liaison, informed COMPREHENSIVE
Council that the Comprehensive Plan should be completed by July 1, as PLAN UPDATE
planned. Also, a letter from Carl Dale, City Planner, outlining the
need for upgrading the business district, was noted.
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MINUTES
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 28, 1980
PAGE 10
Councilmember Larson also reported on the Businessmens' Meeting which
was held in order to get their input for the Comprehensive Plan.
Clerk Administrator Barnes reported that the City of Roseville's request
that Ramsey County place more traffic control at Roselawn and Cleveland,
Fairview and Lydia, and Roselawn and Hamline, has been denied. Falcon
Heights had also requested that Ramsey County consider 4 way stops or
traffic signals at Roselawn and Hamline and the County will check into
the grade on Hamline to determine if it should be changed in order to
alleviate the danger to Roselawn traffic attempting to enter Hamline.
,
ROSELAWN-
HAMLINE
INTERSECTION
UPDATE
Clerk Administrator Barnes informed Council that Maurice Cedarholm, CEDARHOLM
who was a part time liquor store employee until his termination on DISCRIMINATIOT
March 27, 1980, has filed a discrimination complaint with the Minnesota CHARGE
Department of Human Rights. Attorney Kenefick will prepare a letter of
denial based on facts presented to him by the Clerk Administrator.
Engineer Lemberg presented for viewing by all in attendance, the pre-
liminary plans for the proposed new City Hall. He explained that the
entire City had been canvassed for prospective building sites in order
to determine which areas would be suitable. In order to determine how
much area would be needed it was necessary to prepare a site plan show-
ing building lay-out. Engineer Lemberg explained the plan and indicated
that approximately 4 acres would be needed for such a plan.
Councilmember Steele inquire~t as to an estimated cost of construction.
Engineer Lemberg informed that the estimated cost of the building only,
based on current prices and prices of buildings,which been recently
completed, would be approximately $478,000.00. In addition to that
there would be the cost of some landscaping, furnishings, and parking
lot surfacing bringing the cost of $500,000.00 to $750,000.00 for the
total package. Engineer Lemberg estimated that present City property
might be worth $427,000.00 plus an additional $75,000.00, which G.T.A.
possibly would be willing to pay for the convenience of being able to
expand on the present site.
PROPOSED CITY
HALL PLANS
VIEWED
ESTIMATED COST
OF CONSTRUCTIC
Clerk Administrator Barnes informed Council that due to absences there JUNE 11, 1980
would not be a quorum at the next regularly scheduled meeting of June MEETING
11, 1980. After some discussion Councilmember Larson moved, seconded CANCELLID
by Mayor Warkentien that the June 11, 1980 meeting be cancelled and
notice of that cancellation be posted. Motion carried unanimously.
Councilmember Larson moved, seconded by Councilmember Brown that the ADJOURNMENT
meeting be adjourned at 10:25 p.m. Motion carried unanimously.
f - _. ~~~
Willis C. A. Warkentien, Mayor
Attes
ewan B. Barnes, Clerk Administrator
Regular City Council Meeting of May 28, 1980