HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCMin_68Oct10_Tape_Recorder~J
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M~rzN~ of OCTOBER lo, 1968 ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ , -
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The hearing is for public information only, there: 3s-no requirement that it be an
Official Public Hearing.
Former
Mayor Nilsen: During the first two years on the Council I was in charge
of the Fire Department. My priority over the years has always
been Sanitary SaFter, Public Water, Fire and Police, in that
order. YJe have had good Fire Department service over the years.
I recall when Mr. Stone and I met with Chief Oberg~
Fixe:Chef of the City of St. Paul, in the Public Safety
Building. We discussed the matter of contracting with the
City of St. Paul. We also discussed fire problems at great
length. The city of St. Paul, at that time, had problems of
their own. They were in no position to do anything for the
suburban community. I felt that at some stage of the game
there ought to be consolidation of various fire departments
in the Suburban area. I also felt that the nutual aid agree-
ment with Roseville, St. Anthor~y and others that the agree-
ments accrued to the benefit of Roseville, in other words they
had something to lean on in regard to Fire Department service.
I'd like to address myself to the Council now. I noticed in
this brochure sent around by the League of Women Voters, two
things in particular. One, cost of Volunteer Departments from
$1.33 to ~~..50 per resident. I'm not particularly impressed
with cost. j~Je have generalized too much with cost. Regardless
of the cost per capita, its what you get for the money you
spend. And as a concerned citizen, if it costs $5.00 per
capita to get good service that is what I am willing to pay.
The other thing I am concerned about is that we are presently
rated as a Class 6 by the Fire Underwriters Bureau. We worked
hard over the years to achieve that rating. In ~' opinion,
Class 6 is the highest rating that can be achieved; in other
words the cost to get a lower rating are prohibitive. I hope at
no time we ever go backwards from a Class 6 to a Class 7
zating. The other thing I am concerned about is the efficiency
and response by the Fire Department. I recognized the
decision is that of the council. I am sure that they are giving
full consideration to the effect of any decision that they
might make with respect to all of these things.
Herbert Horton Last night we had a serious heart attack at the home of Morris
1.68 W. California Rice, in 90 seconds the truck was on its way, along with the Sheriff
and in less than two minutes they were applying oxygen.
Seven and a half minutes later they had this man in the
emergency room at Miller Hospital. I don't think you are
going to do that with a strict volunteer group.
Chief Helbig I got the call from Bert Slams. at home and I think he will
verify that I was waiting for the rig at the scene at the
Rice residence.
A1r. Jorrison I called the Fire Department two and a half to three weeks
1119 W. Hoyt ago. I called and they were there in less than three minutes.
It wasn't a serious fire, but could anyone of you people
sitting on the Council actually take a truck out of this
thing and hook up to a hydrant and make thatpump work or
drive that truck? No, you can't, you have to have the
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Mr. Jorrison training. Have you got the time to go down and take the training?
continued: Have you got the time to sit and wait down here and wiat for a
fire? No you haven't, I know I haven't, I wouldn't enjoy it.
I did volunteer for the Fire Department, but I am not a member
yet. I don't feel that we should get rid of our regular men, I
think they do a fine job. Now could you go take and hook up a
pump and put out afire in my house? Anybody sitting back here
including you Councilmen, could you?
Chief Helbig I might add that every volunteer on my force can.
Jerry Baden I've been on the Volunteer Fire Department for 18 years, and I
think 2 made about 75 percent of all the day calls that were
in the Village and I would not say that I could get from that
filling station on Arona and Larpentuer to the Fire Station
and after stopping my car and opening the doors and etc., I
don't think I could get the rig out of the Fire Hall in less than
10 minutes.It's humanly impossible. Roseville has a fine Fire
Department but they had Carrier Brothers right across the street
and they use to run right across the street and take the rig out.
Now they get a call and all the sleeper does is start the rig and
get it out on the drive-way apron. They must wait for someone to
come and take the truck from that point and that's a waiting
period of anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes. I have turned in an alarm
and gone to the station and waited and it has taken 15 minutes.
In Falcon Heights the driver should either wait for a man to go
with him or know that someone will be at the scene, because
there is only four men in this village in the daytime.
Mrs. Ronald Brown If it is not possible or feasible to make afire contact with
1887 Simpson St. Paul, has Minneapolis been contacted.
Councilman St. Paul has copied the Minneapolis contract which Lauderdale now
Mr. Ecklund uses in it's contract with Minneapolis according to St. Paul
Fire Chief, Steve Conroy.
Some of the conditions of the contract were read such as:
1. The City of St. Paul reserves the right to retain
within the city arty personnel or equipment the Chief
deems necessary for the proper and adequate protection
of the City.
2. They will dispatch only such equipment and personnel as
in his opinion, at the time being, can safely be spared
from the City.
.3. In the case of afire in Falcon Heights he may recall
any or all equipment and personnel for an emergency
which may arise in the City at the time such equipment
or personnel is in our Village.
]~. In case weather or road conditions are such that in the
opinion of the Fire Chief equipment and personnel
cannot be fu,zmished to applicant with reasonable
safety, he may at his discretion, refuse to answer the
call of the applicant.
Need I read further? (The general consensus of the audience
was no!) It seems St. Paul just doesn't want outside fire
contracts although as most of you know the Fairgrounds and
Farm Campus are serviced by St. Paul under separate contracts.
This, of course, is due primarily to high exposure and large
buildings,
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Mr. Jorrison I think that if I have to turn around and kick out three competent
1I~19 Hoyt men due to the fact it's going to cost us another half a mi~.1`
which is a $1.6t~, I think it is pretty ridiculous. Do you
know what our Fire Insurance is going to go up if we kick out
the three regulars? $10.00 a year.
Mr. Ecklund
Councilman kthere did you get that figure?
Mr. Jorrison Where did I get my figure? That's my business, I don't have
to answer to you.
Mr. Ecklund The proper agency which determines fire rating has told us that
Councilman not having paid men would not necessarily affect our classification.
Having radios might more than off set any advantage paid men may
have as far as classification is concerned due to increased
efficiency.
Jerry Baden The department has asked for radios for the department every
year since 1952 or 1953•
Mr. White Falcon Heights has got a good Fire Department and I second
1760 N. Albert Harold Nilsen's motion that we keep our Fire Department.
Harold Nilsen I am sorry rir. White, I did not make a motion to that affect or
anything like that. I said I was concerned about two things.
Chze, that we don't go back to a class 7 rating and I'm concerned
about the speed of calls.
Stan Schultz I'm one of the full-time paid men and come February I'll have
16 years of service for the Village of Falcon Heights. I=`don't
agree with at~y of the things that Mr. Ecklund brought up as far
as radios or anything else. I'd like to explain what one man can do.
I have three fires in mind that I took care of all by myself and I
think that by being there right away that I was able to extinguish
these fires and not have to call out 18 to 22 men. I think what
you people are doing here is you're destroying the protection of the
community and whether my job is involved or not is immaterial.
Donald Shannon I would agree with these folks who have spoken about putting
1990 Tatum St quality of service first and I'd like to give a few figures here
on amount of insurance costs. A person who has a $20,000 home
who has a home owners policy would be compelled to carry
80 percent of replacement cost for $17,500 to avoid becoming a
coinsurer. With a change in the Fire Department he migrit readily
increase his insurance about $1000.00 at least and to da so he
would pay $2.1x0 a year for that extra $1000 insurance. Or
if he got real jittery and insured up to the full $20,000 on
that home he would then be paying about $6 per year more.
We who are living here and find security in our home are rather
inclined to let things stay as they are, at least that would be
my opinion.
Dale Bergstedt Ire only lived in the Village six years so I haven't partaken
1659 Mapleknoll in a lot of this past history that I hear about back in the early
50's, but T am quite conscious of the excellent job that the
Council of this Village has done in the last aix years. This relates
to the men who have served in this period and I want to thank
Norman Ecklund for the job he has done in preparing this analysis
of the situation, weighing everything in the balance that should
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Dale Bergstedt be weighed and coming to a reasoned judgement in accord with that.
continued As I understand with the new system in effect we would have a
single telephone number for Police, Fire, or First Aid call. Is
that correct Mr. Ecklund?
Mr. Ecklund That is correct.
Dale Bergstedt Therefore, a police vehicle would also be dispatched then
1659 Mapleknoll immediately also. Is that correct?
Mr. Ecklund Yes.
Dale Bergstedt The Police vehicles also carry oxygen, do they not?
Councilman Yes, but they do not carry a respirator. That is the reason we
Mr. Ecklund desire the Fire Department to answer Emergency First Aid calls
to give our residents the finest in equipment plus the additional
manpower that might be needed from time to time in certain cases.
We propose to establish a rescue squad, of a certain number of
men, highly trained, to respond to emergency calls. Under the
present system the Sheriff's Office is notified from 2 to ~
minutes after a call is received at the Fire Department. This
could be critical where a hospital run is necessary or impera-
tive.
Dale Bergstedt On the basis of your answers I would say that I'm highly in
favor of the Council's proposed action in this matter and I think
we would achieve an equivalent or higher level of protection
to all of the factors for which we as citizens might have
ocassion to make an emergency call.
Don Pantzar I live in Roseville and as citizens we have gone into- the
Roseville Council. Their siren goes off and I've got plenty of
witnesses around me, there is always three minutes before we hear
the truck come out of the door. Roseville is thinking of going to
full-time men.
Stanley Schultz Mr. Mayor and gentlemen of the Council, I would ]a.ke to bring
out to the attention of the people here that the majority of the
membership of the Department are not desirous of the action
that you people are proposing here. This is something that is
being forced upon them. There are 5 or 6 men who will come up
for pensions if the department is abolished. The Fire Department
had a meeting about Sept~nber 3rd with the operational officers
of the Department. I am an Assistant Chief and did not attend
that meeting. I was out of town, but would have made it a point
to be here had I known of the meeting. My understanding is that
there were three alternatives offered:
1. Go strictly volunteer
2. Service from St. Paul
3. Service from Roseville
We have only four men during rush traffic hours of the day who
can answer day calls. I think your proposal is out of the
question, completely out of line. This Pepartment has affected
my health. I have to moonlight as it is to support my family.
I want ti clearly understood that the men that operate the
resuscitator are the full-time men. They also operate the pumpers.
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Al He].i~ig I don't think there is any doubt that we have had and will con-
tinue to have one of the best Fire Departments in the state.
I personally think if we went to full volunteer we would have
an excell azt department. Of the men on our department now
there are at least 20 who can drive the rig and op ex•ate the
pumps. We also can operate the resuscitator. With radio
control we definitely would have more men on the scene faster
Perhaps the Fire Truck might be a minute or two slower than
the present system.
Dale Bergstedt In case of high winds such as we had last sunnner or even a
tornado, Mr. Ecklund, which means of communication would be
more likely to be dependable, telephone or radio system?
Councilman Ecklund No question about it, radios. Not only are they battery
operated in case the power goes off, but the Sheriff's
Office has standby generation at their station at F~.ce Street.
There would never be a failure in a radio system such as
there could be otherwise.
James T~~lalker I'm not familiar with professional fire fighting methods,
178t~ Asbury but I can read figures. I notice that Falcon Heights is
paring up to four times the amount per person for protection
as some other communities. I'm considerably reassured by what
Chief Helbig has said. In light of what he has said, I'm
content to leave the resolution in this dispute to the Council
and perfectly content with what is said and done.
Louis Kane You made the stat anent a few minutes ago that you (referring
1l~63 California to I~.ayor tirJarkentien) were trying to do what was best for every-
body. Z~Te11, why don't you take a vote then and let the people
decide.
Mayor Warkentien The people who would vote would not have the opportunity to
go into this depth as we have and whether you agree with it
or not we have spent countless hours on this problem and have
come to the conclusion of this proposal. We had this hearing
to explain our proposal and we think we're on the right track.
Harold Nilsen I am concerned about this daytime service and that sort of thing
Having been vn the Council for 12 years, I know that there are
a lot of tough decisions that have to be made. This is one of
them that the Council is going to have to make. I would like
to recommend a phasing proposition. When that transition was
made from the Village Police Department to the Sheriff's
Department there was no need for a transition period. You
were going to highly skilled professional people.
Allan McCoid I want to commend the Council on the study they have done.
Folwell St I think they have put a lot of hard work into trying to
understand a very difficult problem. I came here concerned
about the problem of efficiency about -the proposal. And concerned
about whether the cost saving of the change was worth the
risk in efficiency and worth what seemed to me to be a sub-
stantial risk in change of our insurance status. We're
reassured by the Council that there is no prospect of any
change in our insured status based on changing from our full-time
firemen to an all volunteer system. I have no information that
suggests that that is wrong other than my own suspicis~xi. _ _ .
that full time firemen would provide more efficient service.
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T~Is~s. Herbert Horton I feel it's far more important to prevent serious fires and
1l~68 W. California serious hazards than it is to get insurance for what we've
lost and I'd lilte to suggest that you add X8500 to your
budget this year and provide radios for your present system.
Councilman Black There seems to be an automatic feeling that our fire rates
are going to go up right away. I don't think it's -true. I've
talked to people over at the rating Bureau and they tell me
that the change from paid men to Volunteer does not auto-
matically raise the rating, does not automatically change
the rating. They say there are other factors, quality of
equipment, type of equipment, quality and quantity of water
system, type of community, whether not we have a lot of fire
hazards in the community, a lot of businesses tha•tproduce
unusual fire perils, perhaps businesses such as warehouses, paper
manufacturing, or businesses that use a lot of oil that are real
fire hazards. Now those are things that have a real impact on
fire rating. There is nobody at the Fire Underwriters Inspec-
tion Bureau that will make a statement that you rates are
automatically going to go up. In fact they make the contrary
statement. Changing from some paid men to volunteers does not
automatically make the rates go up and I've talked to them
myself. I am satisfied in my own mind if we stayed just the way
we are, our rates are going to go up because (1) we
don't offer enough inducement to our volunteers. We are in a
position to offer much better inducement to volunteers.
(2) Money and taxes are important and we represent all the
people in the Village and at•~y mention of half a mi1~. is
ridiculous. A half mill won't take care of arty substantial
changes.
B.oy Garcia I came here as an observer. Trlhat were doing here is sub-
Falcon ti~Joods jetting our elected representatives, the people we've chosen
to run this Village and ask them to initiate programs for us
which we think are progress and whi dz will give us better
service while considering cost at the saxe':time. You have to
take some risks with change. No one can assess those risks
at this time. According to P1Ir. Ecklund's report, there are
100,000 people living in 7 Villages, all but one operating with
full volunteer force. One of them., Maplewood has one full-time
Fire Marshall. It seems to me these communities have the
citizenry at heart and most have more money than Falcon Heights.
ti~Je're fortunate in one respect that we're a small village
geographically.
Mayor Warkentien Taxes are the basis of every political campaign in the state
of ~tinnesota, whether it's a sales tax, higher income tax,
school taxes or some other form of taxes. 1~Je are charged
with the responsibility of keeping taxes down. ti^7e think
we're wisely spending the tax dollar when and if we adopt
the proposed change to a full Volunteer Fire Department. This
is a practical budget matter.
William Brown If I were a member of the Council I would ask only that each
1808 Asbury citizen give proper weight to all the factors involved. I
think there are basically three of them. Protection, economics,
and the personal element. The personal element is a tough one
and I am in sympathy with that. As far as economics, that data
presented speaks for itself and as for protection, I feel that
Mr. Garcia has spoken well in favor of that.
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Mayor Warkentien I think one thing that speaks highly for our Fire
Department is that we got a Class 6 rating prior to the
time we were completely watered. Most communities that do have
a higher rating than Class 6 is due primarily to lack of
hydrants.
Henry Dachtera There have been several statements made here as to the efficiency
of the Volunteers. I think these guys are pretty dependable.
I would not say that peoples lives are in danger when one of
volunteers are driving the truck down the street. T think they
are just as efficient as the paid men, they are trained the
same way the paid men are and I'll put my money on the Volun-
teers as well as I will on the paid men. (I~ir. Dachtera then
explained what happens on drill night.)
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