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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCMin_64Mar4_Special2070 SPECIAL T~ETING OF MARCH !~, 196i~ HEARING ON PROPOSED Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, a special TA~PROVEMENT OF meeting of the Village Council of the Village of Falcon CALIFORNIA AVENUE Heights was duly called and held at the Council Rooms BY INSTALLATION OF in said Village on March !~, 196l~ at 8:00 OsClock P.M. CURBS AND GUTTERS: The following members were present: Harold Nilsen, Mayor; W. A. Mortenson, Clerk; Trust$~s Willis Warkenti8~, Charles Stone, and William Black. Hearingwas published in the newspaper and also mailed out to the residents abutting California Avenue. There were approximately fifty people present, Mayor Nilsen read from the letter mailed to each home and gave a resume of the costs and charges of installing curbs and gutters. Engineer Lemberg outlined the plans pointing out that the installation of curb and gutter would improve drainage and preserve blacktop. He also advised that all three blocks from Hamline to Arona were included in the proposal because from an engineer's viewpoint, the project would then be complete, and also if the residents on the block from Arona to Pascal would want curb and gutters instal led, it vrould be included now, but legally could not be added to a project once it has commenced. The estimate of cost to residents is X2.50 per front foot. The boulevards would be blended in, sod replaced with cultured sod, boulevard to property line crossings at .corners would be finished with concrete sidewalks, the street edge would be finished to blend with curb and gutter. Michael Kennedy My property is on the corner of Albert and California. 1.02 California: Haw is the water going to go across Albert to get away from that corner. Lemberg: We had a crew out there taking shots. At that point, the water from Albert runs toward California from both directions, Kennedy: All the water comes from the alley. Lemberg: We will have to take that water to the east along California, go across with a gentle :wale until such time as storm sewers can be-put in. Roy Kennedy I am vrondering why no consideration was made to putting 1354 California: sewers at each corner. There are two at Hamline and there should be four at Albert and four more at Pascal.. Have they ever given any consideration or would it cost too much? Lemberg: This has been given a great deal of consideration but it has been found that most people would not want to pay for storm sewers. Michael Kennedy: We have had a lot of trouble with our alley. I would be in favor of putting in sewer first and then build up the road. I donut believe the street is aged enough to put 2071 in permanent curbing. Lemberg: The cost of storm sewer has been running on an assessment between 2¢ and 3¢ a square foot. If you have a 100 x 200 foot lot, this is about 20,000 square feet,it would cost about X250,00, Michael Kermedyz Even in the alley - that would take some of it. Nilsen: With this proposed curb and gutter, will there be a residue of water ar~y place? Lemberg: We plan to run it down into catch basins on Hamline Avenue and Cal if ornia. It wi.1.l run down there. It will have to go across the bituminous to get there. Michael Kennedy: Then you will have to rebuild the road? Lemberg: Yes, we will have to. Last summer we fixed one street and two of the fellows stood out there and said it would not work, and repeated that a couple of times; and when it did work, they said you cant run water up hill. But it did work. Edmund J, Wagner Going back to the road. When they put in the sewers, we 13l~0 Californian paid something like X9.21 a front foot - I thought that included. the price of the blacktop on the streets. Nilsen: No, that proposal was separated into two projects; 70~ of it was assessed to abutting property owners and 30~ was put on general taxation, When that was approved, it called for stabilization of the streets, Hindermann said that the limited amount of money spent on those streets steely resulted in good serviceable.~residence streets - it was money well spent. Wagner: We have storm sewers on Hamline and California now. Who paid for those? Nilsen: The Village of Falcon Heights. In order to get the sanitary sewer approved, the Village had to pay the City of Saint Paul about X80,000, which money went into the Saint Paul coi'fers and they used that portion for storm sewers. They wanted to separate the sanitary sewer from the storm sewer. Wagner: T would be in favor of doing the whole job completely. I don't Mink everyone has installed their sewers. Nils ens All sanitary sewers are connected. The gas mains and water lines are all installed too. Marshall Mueller I would like to ask the engineer one question. What effect 1376 Cal ifornias would putting curbs and gutters in today have on a future development where storm sewers would be put in? Would we be losing anything by putting curb and gutter now? Lembergs To proper~.y carry the water, there should be a water path for it to follow, 1 1 f~ 2072 1 ~, ~; 1 Mueller: Curb and gutter then are necessary parts of the system? Then, if that is true, would the existing curb and gutter that is now proposed be tied directly into the storm sewer vrithout a complete overhaul of the project? Lemberg: Yes, it would just mean taking a very short section of the curb and gutter to hook onto. Mueller: It would have nothing to do with the rest of the block? Lembergs If storm sewer is put in, you would have to put in pipe in some places. Mueller: But this would not effect the curb and gutter per say? And in that case, what have we to lose by putting in what is now proposed? The ideal thing would be catch basins, but if we are not going to get the who?. thing , I think we would be better off to go ahead - we are not going to lose anything. In front of may house, the water situation is practically unbearable. The trunk of my car is useless unless I put on hip boots. Lemberg: Drainage would be established that would run into the concrete gutter. The boulevard would be adjusted to meet the new grade of the concrete curb and gutter. Mueller: Are the storm sewer basins adequate to handle all the water? Lemberg: Yes, it is going to take some time for the water to get to them, but the size there now should be sufficient to clear the water out within a couple of hours after the rain has stopped. Mueller: Over how many years would the assessment be spread? Nilsen: It usually is about five years. Mueller: I am certain that I can save that much on car washes. Lemberg: The cost for an average 50 foot lot is $250. The assessment would be between $1l~O to X150 roughly. W. D, Durfee How do you plan to handle the water at.®rona where it sits 1t~97 California: until it dries? Lemberg: The wide line grade of Arona goes to the south from Larpenteur to Idaho and from there to the drainage pond down below and at this point, we will have to sxale across to make it go across. Durfee: The houses from 1197 California to Arona were built apparently in violation of the grade code of the Village because they are all low. If you put a 6" curb there, you will put in pockets of water there. Lembergs The plans have not been completed to their final point, but we had the same problem on Iowa Avenue. In some cases, we will have to put a little more crown on the streets. We want at least 6" crown on the streets. 2073 Aurfee: It is your intention that we would not end up with artificial lakes back of the curb and parking strip? Lemberg: That is the intention - yes. Durfee: The alley drains and ends up in our back yard now. Lemberg: I might say that the ideal siautaion would be to have complete curb and gutter on California, Arona, and all the way down. This way we will have to have some means of carrying it from the corner to the corner of Idaho and make it a modified drainage ditch. $oy Kennedy: Water from Pascal to Arona runs west; from Pascal to Albert it runs east. Lembergs Yes, there is a very distinct breaking point from Pascal, Mrs.-John Kelsey Would the curbing actually run the water off or are you 170 California: just going to tear up the streets again? The corners have been dug up because the water doesn't run off, Are you actually going to run the water off - is there any guarantee? Lemberg: If you take a look at Arona from Larpenteur Avenue to Crawford., you will see that there is not a problem there any more. Mrs. Kelsey: Why canTt that be done without curbs? Lembergs A solid way to hold a permanent grade is the solution. Bituminous will not stand up. Pretty soon cars are passing over the bituminous, then it is softened and there is no firm edge to hold up the bituminous and maintain same grade all the way through. Roy Kennedy: Is the street going to be any wider? Lemberg: The streets are set up with 32 foot widths. There is no plan to widen the streets. Nilsen: Are there any other questions? Can you say there will be no difficulties with water once this is completed? There will be a run off? Lemberg: I cannot guarantee that the water will run off on the side streets where #.gere is no curb and gutter. Nilsen: Then there won't be any gathering of water on these corr_ers where there is a radius? Lemberg: Not if the main streets can be kept open. Nilsen: We would not want to do any work that would be disrupted at some future time. Will it stay there at the same grade? Another thing - storm sewers - we find it difficult because most people seem to feel that if the water can be handled in any other way than storm sewers, do it the other way, Our experience at storm sewer hearings has been very poor. 2071 Mueller: Being fair to the people on the corner, this radius you refer to - does it go from the sidewalk line around that corner, or does it go in a straight line? Lemberg: It is carried all the way around a 90° turn to direct it into this gutter on the corner. Radius on the corner lot is not front footage. About the corners, there is no charge to the property owners on the corner - that is picked up by the Village, Vdagner: On Hamline Avenue, how? If you go around the corners on Haanline, the curb is in the street. Lembergs Ori Iowa Avenue. Each problem has to be carried separately. Louis Payin The problem on lower California. Unless you re-grade the 1.63 California: whole street, how can you get the water out of the middle of the street? Lemberg: In this estvnate, we have included 260 tons of bituminous patching. Part of that will be used to rebuild the streets. Payin: Two years ago people mentioned the fact that there were no problems until the streets started getting fixed up. Are we still going to have problems? Lemberg: There will be a slight drop in the mean grade to carry the water - ftoy H. Jensen ~"dhhen they put in Larpenteur, we were told by engineers 1595 California: ete.that the water coming out of the alley between California and Albert was going to run North - but probably Larpenteur was not put in the way it was planned. Isn't there some way to get the water where it was intended? We were also promised that it would be low enough so that the water east of Albert would run off Albert. Lemberg: I agree that Larpenteur is too high. I don't know why. We had the same problem on Arona and Pascal, Catch basins are there, but you cannot run water up a hill to get it there. Questions I: intend to replace my sidewalk. Should I wait? Lembergs Generally, we try to set them where they are now, but I would suggest that you wait until it is done and have a better job. Payin: The same problem exists on California. They graded on Pascal and California in the a11ey, and the water just sits. They blocked off the drainage. Lembergs There isn't much that can be done now with Larpenteur as high as it is. Payin: The east end of the alley is blocked off. Warkentien: The grading of Larpenteur, we agree, was a very poor job. The original plans were correct, but they must have been changed, 2075 Stone: Could we hdve some expression from these people as to how many are in favor? Mrs. Kelseys We left a petition on which there are 19 or 20 signatures and we want to talk about that block, because we do not want curb and gutters. Nilsen: How many people are in favor of it on the block between Arona and Pascal? Out of approximately 15 people, not one hand was raised. How many people from Hamline to Alb ert - 8 hands How many people from Albert to Pascal - All present were in favor with the exception of one. Questions The corner of Albert and California - on my side comes down Albert and in from California and floods over onto my boulevard. I still donut know how you are going to get the water off. Lemberg: Across Albert and down to the storm sewer. Roy Kennedy: I would be in favor of postponement and getting some figures on a storm sewer first. Wagners In the future, where are you going to connect storm sewers? Lembergs Without pu3-ling records, it seems to me there is a storm sewer on Hoyt, one on Hamli.ne, and. one on Larpenteur, so we have three directions to take the pipe. You cannot put in a pipe without tearing something up. Falcon Heights has access to the Hoyt Storm sewer. Nilsent We have entered into agreement with the City of Saint Paul and there are a few problems in connection with this resolution as to how the water would run. There are a few provisions in connection to water north of this point, which goes this way, and whether it could go that way, etc., and we might have to go to the city of 5t. Paul for exams ination of this. Lembergs Drainage districts were set up and these are the things that have to be worked out in connection with that, too. Nilsen: Lemberg, are we going to be able to do a fob? Lembergs I think we can - yes. Stones In view of the expression of opposition by those living between Pascal and Albert, both by petition and by their presence at this Hearing, I move that this block be eliminated from the project. Motion seconded by Nilsen. Lemberg: Just as an explanation, when we have a street such as this, we set up the Hearing for the entire street because, under the law, you can delete, but you cannot add to a project. 2076 Warkentien: Will this effect the other blocks? __J Lemberg: As far as the water goes, there is physical break at Pascal. Mrs. Kelsey: We have no problem with water running off. From the standpoint of the looks of the street, it would not be improved any by curbing. Nilsen: It was moved and seconded that this portion of California Avenue, including the West side of Pascal Avenue, be deleted from this proposal.. Upon a vote being taken, the following vote was taken: Ayes - Nilsen, Mortensen, Warkentien, Stone, and Black. Nays - None. The motion was carried. 1 Durfee: When I went over the estimate, I wondered how this could be done for X2.50 a front foot. I think the people should be notified about how much the Village pays. I couldn't understand how X2.50 assessed to the people on California could make $6.00 I think the people should be made aware of this. It seams to me our situation will be solved only when storm sewers get in. Warkentien: When I lived on Iowa Avenue, we petitioned to have curb put in at 9fl¢ a foot and we couldn't get enough to go along and now is the time to do it, it seems to me. Aes'~hetically speaking it would be good thing to do. Resolution Ordering The following resolution was introduced by member Stone, Improvements who moved its adoption: California Avenue RESOLUTION ORDERING IMPROVEMENT OF CALIFORNIA Curb and Gutter AVENUE BETNfEEN THE WEST LINE OF HAML]NE AVENUE AND Project: THE EAST LINE OF PASCAL AV~`~UE BY THE CONSTRUCTION OF CURBS AND GUTTERS AND ORDERING THE PREPARATION OF PLANS WHEREAS a resolution of the village council adopted February 12, 196t~, fixed a date for a council hearing on the proposed improvement of California Avenue from the West line of Ha~l.ine Avenue to the East line of Pascal. Avenue by the construction of curbs and gutters, and, 1 WHEREAS ten days published notice of the hearing through two weekly publications of the required notice was given, and mailed notice was given as required by statute and the hearing was held thereon on March ~., 196i~, at which all persons desiring to be heard were given an opportunity to be .heard thereon, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE VILLAGE ~' FALCON HEIGHTS, MINNESOTA: 1. Such improvement is hereby ordered as proposed in the Council resolution adopted February 12, 196.. 2077 Possible Widening of Arona Avenue s Master Plumber's License: Paul J. Byrd Roberts Apartments - Conveya,nce of Property: Parking: 2, Bonestroo, Rosene, and Associates are hereby designated as the engineers for this improvement. They shall prepare plans and specifications for the making of such improvement. The motion for the adoption of the foregoing resolution was duly seconded by member Warkentien and upon a vote being taken thereon, the following voted in favor thereof Nilsen, Mortenson, Warkentien, Stone, and Black, and the following voted against the same: None. Whereupon said resolution was duly declared passed and adopted. ---~-- Mayor Clerk Mayor Nilsen asked the people in attendance if they had any ideas as to widening of Arona, which was set up as a possible municipal state aid street. It is thought that possibly it would be widened to !t0 feet back to back. Part of this widening would be assessed. There were no thoughts expressed. Mortenson moved, seconded by Warkentien that the application for Master Plumber's License for Paul Byrd of Paul's Plumbing, 21~~.0 North Fairview Avenue be approved. Upon a vote being taken, the motion was carried. Attorney John Daubney and Mr. Roberts were present. Attorney Galvin reminded all that at the tame the building permit was granted, a stub abstract was made and Roberts owned 110 feet find the adjoining property was awned by Mr. Carroll. Carroll had a residence which did not have a minimum front footage for multiple unit. Mr. Roberts real estate is at the present about 97 feet, which is still above the minimum, and that reduces the number of square feet for the 16 unit apartments, and the required minimum of 1500 square feet per unit. If it were 110 feet wide and 265 feet deep (but it is 215 feet deep because of the widening of Larpenteur Avenue) and taking the 215 feet deep, there is 23,600 squarg footage, which is about 650 feet over the minimum requirement. After the recent conveyance, however, this has been reduced to a size below the minimum. Mr. Daubney stated the facts as presented were substantially correct. He also advised that the owner of the property next door had asked Roberts if he would convey the thirteen feet of property. Roberts did not consider the possibility that the property would be undersized. He has now contacted C7 2078 l Mr. Lindig who owns the property to the rear and Lindig advised that he could obtain l~000 square feet which would put him in line and would also give him additional parking. Daubney advised he would get petition for special use permit to use this l~000 square feet for parking. This, in turn, will be referred to the Planning Commission. Mayor Nilsen stated that he will not recommend this special use. Roberts advised he tivill obtain ENO PARK:~:V~G' signs and place them on the northwest corner of the building - where cars are now parking in violation of code, Also it is believed that with the conveyance of 13 feet, the Roberts driveway is now on part of that 13 feet. 1 1 Vacant lot at Pascal and Larpenteur - Letter from Johnson and Eastland, attorneys, dated Bethel Co1l.ege February 21 was read by Mortenson. Bethel College wants Plans to Build: to build on this property, and plans an apartment for students and teachers, A notice of Hearing on March 18 was included with letter - which is in reference to a deed restriction. Bills: Stone moved, seconded by Black that the bill of Lakeland Tree Service, General Tree Service and Northland Tree Service for trimming three additional trees that were not included in .the original contract be paid. The following bills were then approved for payment: Lakeland Tree Service, General Tree Service, and Northland Tree Service - trimming of trees as per contract . . ~ 901.00 Lakeland Tree Service 31.50 Adjournment: On motioh, meeting was adjourned at 10:20 P.M, .Lu-g.-e~~. ' Village Jerk Mayor