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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCMin_65Jul142260 REGULAR TdEETING OF JULY lt~, 1965 (Hearing - Storm Sewer Improvement No, 65-1 ) The regular meeting was called to order with the following members present: Mayor Nilsen, Clerk Strandquist, Trustees Black, Warkentien and Stone. Also present were Attorney Galvin and Engineer Lemberg. Minutess Black moved, Stone seconded meeting of June 23, 1965 be None. Motion carried. Licenses: Nilsen moved, Strandquist s~ Gas Installer's Licenses be None. Motion carried. that the minutes of the regular approved. Ayes: A11, Nays: ~conded that the following Master approved. Ayes: A11, Nays: Master Gas K, W. Chinander -Suburban Heating and Sheet Metal Installers Francis T. Wagner - Rose Plumbing Earl G. Nelson - Avoles Plumbing Service Robert C. Neil - Neil and Hubbard Htg, & Air Cond. Arthur Nelson - Cronstrom's Heating & Air Cond. Robert E. Peterson - Twin City Furnace Warkentien moved, Black seconded that the following Master Plumber's Licenses be approved, Ayes: A11, Nays: None. Motion carried. Master Plumber's Walter Buchman - Buchman Plumbing - Minneapolis Licenses Fred F, Wagner - F.G. Wagner Plumbing and Heating Richard Eldridge - Maplewood Plumbing Service Standfo rd Schnapp - Al's Plumbing and Heating Francis T. Wagner - Rose Plumbing Donald A. Scholz -Newport Plumbing, Inc. Sewer Ins tallers: Stone moved, Black seconded, that the following Sewer Installer's licenses be approved. Ayes: All. Nays: None. Motion carried. Henry DaBruzzi - Sonny's Sewer Service Fred J. Copp and Ervin Springstroh Francis T, Wagner - Rose Plumbing Richard Eldridge - Maplewood Plumbing Assistant Assessor: Pursuant to request of Roland V. Powers, County Assessor, William P. Carroll. was appointed Assistant Assessor to represent Falcon Heights. Engineer's Reports Engineer stated Ramsey County Highway Department will take steps so that no parking will be allowed on Larpenteur Avenue between Arona and Snelling. The County will draw up a proposal to install semaphores on Larpenteur at Arona with cost to be shared equally between Ramsey County and this Village. County advised that proposal will be drawn up for median strip on Larpenteur Avenue between Arona and Snelling. It was thought not feasible to construct a perms anent median strip until such time as the Larpenteur- Snelling Grade Separation project is resolved. 2261 PUBLIC HEARING a~.~r~ Mayor Nilsen opened the Public Hearing for Proposed Proposed Northeast Northeast Area Storm Sewer Project 65-1 Improvement. Area Storm Sewer He requested the C7~ rk to read the official notice of Project 65-1 hearing on the improvement. There were approximately 125 people present. Mayor Nilsen gave resume of events leading up to the proposed improvement. The Mayor called. on Consulting Engineer Lemberg to explain the engineering features of the storm sewer improvement. The RRayor called on Fiscal Consultant, Luke Melchert of Juran and Moody, to explain financing of this project. E. F. MacMillan T have specific interest in this project. Has this project, 1776 Holton as proposed, been advocated by any special group - such as the residents of any particular area or religious group or any other banded group? Nilsen: In answer to that, as I indicated earlier, relative to division of village and storm water areas, this began in 1957. Drainage districts and problems of drainage have been discussed over the years. In all of our discussions, we have taken this on as a community problem. This project is not trying to be ramped through. Tt is presented at this hearing for serious cons ideration. MacMillan: It appears to me that the Falcon Heights Church is one most likely to benefit. The Village Council has already issued. building permits for two of the lots. This deprived the Village of so many gallons of water storage area. Tt appears to me that this unusual situation which occurred this past winter, caused someone to push the panic button at this time. Safety hazard - yea, it is and we support the council in that. I would like to ask why no fence has been erected as was done at the pit on Larpenteur Avenue only after a child was drowned. Also, would this condition exist if the streets had been properly graded at the time the sanitary sewer was completed? This job was accepted as completed and so the council is responsible. I don't know how we can act on any proposal when Roseville is not taking action until tomorrow night. We should wait until we know where they are coming down on Roselawn. The people on Roselawn are <alm:ost unanimously opposed. According to signatures on this petition, T present to you, it is indicated that these people are generally opposed. I have canvassed the entire area and found many people not at home and of those whom I did. find at home, only 3 of the 178 homes in the area were in favor of the plan as it is presented. The people on Holton do not recognize this situation as critical or even as parti- cularly aggravating. The need for storm sewers does exist, but sewer lines. down Ruggles to Pascal, down Garden and to Hamline would be enough. My neighbor is a consulting engineer and he states that it is standard. practice for the school district to be involved - /~~ ~ 5 226a where a school exists in the proposed area, and they MacMillan: should stand a fair share of the cost. I would accept him as an authority on this sub3ect. I would like to ask the engineer and the council dust exactly how effective will any sewer system be unless our streets are re-graded, repaved and furnished with curb and gutter. Is this going to be a continuation of errors or will this act tonight be the final act in this comedy of errors. I urge the council to reconsider this proposal:. We would like this to be a proposal which would be more equitable and we feel there are unnecessary stubs running off the proposed system. Nilsen: We invite every citizen to attend these Hearings to open up these matters and to bring these things to everyone's attention. I don't believe this was brought about by any panic button. Also, the school district is included. I feel I can say that the streets are in very good shape and at reasonable cost, too. The Roseville Council and this Council got together about two months ago to talk this over. We are in no position to proceed until all t11e factors are recognized. (Mayor turned petition to Village Clerk to determine validity of petition ) Lemberg: I would like to answer some of the questions as to this 'comedy of errors,' Ne were not the engineers when the sanitary sewer was put in. Right now, the Village of Falcon Heights has some of the best streets in the area. Curb and gutters - if you want them, it can be done, at your expense. This proposed storm sewer is picking up the water at the critical points. It will be put in ditches wherever possible to cut down on the cost. Hazel Sorenson Some of my friends are for this and some of my friends are 1783 Aoltons opposed. There is only one way and that is to let the people vote on this proposal. I am for fair government. A referendum vote would be feasible. Attorney Galvin: There is no provision in the statutes for referendum. (He outlined procedure for improvements and stated sole authority is the council, which must take that responsibility. Proce- dures must be strictly adhered to and there is no basis for a referendum.) MacMillen: I say that if the streets had been properly graded, there would be no need. Evelyn Dilger I don't know how much more of a panic button we should have, 1811 No. Hamline: I am up high - nothing to worry about there. If you ask me, because the water had to be pumped, there was plenty of panic. Our trouble is the school yard - every spring the water comes up and up and up. In the eight ,years I have lived there, our taxes have gone up, and then we also have culverts dug out in front of my house. I would like to have pipes for water ins tead of the culvert. I would like to have the storm sewer put in and then at the dame time have water lines installed, while the hole is still dug. 2263 ~~ ~{ Glen Harjung What effect would the elimination of these stubs have 1865 Simpson: on the system? Lemberg: If this system is laid out, there are very few stubs on here. As you know, water stands on Simpson and on Holton. There is a low point south of the church. In some spots, the stubs are so the water does not flow in the streets the entire distance. There would be catch basins at the corner of Ruggles and Hamline, and midway between on Holton. Harjung: How will the catch basins get rid of this water? In the winter, are these going to be lower, so they don't freeze up? Lemberg: If you go and look, they are a lot more than 10 - 12 inches down. Pdost of them go down ~ to 6 feet. They can be opened up. S. K. Robertson Is this going to get from the middle of the block and out? 17?~1. Holtons I was wondering why the lots on Hamline Avenue, south of Dewey Mattson Garden are included in this drainage area. Most of them 1775 Hamline Ave. drain toward the east toward Hamline and drainage toward Hamline is from Garden south about 1/2 way between Larpen- teur and Garden and 1/2 drains north to the catch basin. Most of this area on Hamline will not drain into storm sewer system, but would go into Gottfried Pit. Lemberg: Roseville has proposal that has line that would go down Hamline Avenue - south. Ercil Billings As I understand this, there will be one man-hole at the 186l~ Arona: corner of Ruggles and Arona. Water on Garden has tendency to run toward Ruggles and unless catch basins are on this side of the road, it will not go into that. Lemberg: Map is too small to be in detail, There will be four catch basins on all corners. Catch basins will be installed where necessary and will be on all four corners. George Claydon I would not dispute the size of the culvert. Garden and 1770 Holtons Holton maybe could be corrected by blacktopping. Lembergs It cannot be done. It has been tried about three times and it just moved the puddles. Jack MacLean As there hasn't been an alternate plan to look at, couldn't 182. North Holton: they go down Ruggles - one pipe dovdn to Garden and one down some other street - rather than all this? A huge storm does fill these holes, but is there this much need for this great project? Lembergs This project is based on a ten year storm - 2 inches per hour. It could be so designed as to take 100 of the run-off, but the price would be prohibitive. Ray Hines How come not to Snelling Drive? 1816 Asbury: I Lemberg: Part of the water flows to the east and part to the crest. General procedure is to take the water that flows at the front of the house. Questions This is a village project, why doesn't the village pay? Lemberg: Part is being paid by the Village - the part that comes off the streets. Nilsen: This is a matter of benefits involved. South of Garden there is a natural divide - drainage districts just don't follow division lines. George Anderson This should be a benefit to a11. At the end of Albert, 1775 Albert: every spring we have about two feat of water just because the storm sewer doesn't work. Lemberg: Since the county put in Larpenteur Avenue, the end of Larpenteur is higher and the water cannot get into the sewer. Bremer - representa- I merely wish to state that the county is interested in tive of Ramsey this particular project. Countys Leonard Goedert The county may be interested in the sewer, but they are 1803 Simpson: not interested in Garden Avenue. Kurt Rydberg You have had various discussions here - what I would like 1771 North Albert: to know is this district right south of me - when Larpenteur went in, the county put in a storm sewer. It seems to me the people living south of us won't need a storm sewer and they live in Falcon Heights and their children use the streets on the way to school. ~'Vhy shouldn't they pay for some of this? 1Nhy can't it be done on a village basis, so it wouldn't hit us so hard? Nilsen: The Village has already picked up X13,000 for the cost of that pumping station and Ramsey County Holding Pond - which involved this drainage district. The village is also contributing about X1.0,000 which will be picked up on general taxes. You would have this situation only if we could take the entire village and put storm sewer everywhere. Every other community proceeds in this manner. Tim Elder - Mr. MaclViillen talked about haw the church would benefit. representative of In the two-and-one-half years since we built the parsonage, Falcon Heights we have made every attempt to comply with stipulations with Church: regard to the ponding area. We have been very much con- cerned about the safety factor, the health hazard that exists. We feel that storm sewer is the answer and the church is prepared to pay its fair share on the same basis as other property owners. Harry Bruncke The lots on the east side of Albert - these are 300 feet 1710 Albert: deep. Looks like some street will be there in the future. How would sewer enter into the picture there? Also sanitary sewer and water. 2265 7~S~~S Lemberg: I don't know when - but some time I envision a street and also possibly north of the school - and a sanitary sewer and water facilities would be required, Thomas Brady You talked about Roseville project on Roselawn. Possibly 191? Albert: a line down Albert. Our street will be torn up three times in six years. Have we given full consideration to the fact that part of our problem on Ruggles is water that runs dawn from north of Roselawn? Lemberg: Line that five have proposed here is sized only for Falcon Heights water. If a line would come down - we don't know where, but Roseville would pay for oversizing. L. Larsen Regarding the sr~er going to run down Albert Street to 1897 North Albert: take the run off from Roseville. Water line is going to run in the boulevard. I am in favor of a drainage system. I am sick of having Roseville's water run down my back yard. I called your attention to the sump that freezes up every winter so we can't use the street down there. If you go to that sump hole, you'll notice that it only drains half of the block. If Roseville wants to do it right, they have to go across Roselawn and. down Iiamline to take care of the situation. T have no objection to paying for this storm sewer providing it will do the job, but I want you to know that I do not want Roseville coming on Albert Street. I have every faith in you, but I want to know that Roseville is not going to do that job. I don't want them to come butting in. I am against Roseville coming down Albert Street. Mrs. J, Scott Ledy I want to question the petition. I did not react either 1872 Pascal: way, It was presented to me very differently, I wonder if the people who signed feel the way T do. I thought he wanted a different type of sewer system. I was told his concern was the safety factor - that by signing his plan, it was more economical and feasible, I:da.d not sign it, but I am wondering if other women signed it because it was more economical, not because they didn't want the sewer, but because it was more economical. Nilsen: The petition reads as follows: "tiYe, the undersigned, hereby affirm that we are opposed to the proposed Northeast Storm Sewer Project Improvement 65-1 as described in the brochure relating to such project." MacMillen: Fifty per cent of this land is under cultivation. There is a generally recognized need.. for storm sewer and the ponding area should be eliminated in a manner I have thought out. This would be a cheaper project. Drain farming area and eliminate this hazard. I am still opposed to the proposed plan. Mrs. Ledy: The way T reacted to his statements this evening, is that people who signed it are against the storm sewer, Arthur Erler: I second Tufts. Ledyts suggestion. Many ~rrere under this false impression. It was my understanding that his idea was that the plan as set up in the brochure would stall continue to ~~'f~5 22bb use the ponding area and I would like to get rid of that. Mrs. Ledy's idea that many people had signed opposing the proposed plan because of the ponding area - her thoughts would be n1Y thoughts on this, too. Art Newman When water system was put through I asked the engineer 1863 No. Albert: about this. If and when storm sewer system was installed, it will go dawn the boulevard as much as possible. When water was put through, the boulevard was torn up and not replaced with suitable sod. Lembergs You and the Mayor and the Heftys and some others had a very sad experience on that and learned from it. Since that time, on all projects from then on, cultured sod. has been specified in the plans. If it is held over for the winter and the sod laid in the spring, it turns out a lot better. Roger Krantz I signed the petition on the basis of what it said on 1782 Holton: the top. Ma.cMillen: I feel I did not try to misrepresent anything. If this has occurred, I think it can be ironed out satisfactorily. If someone wants his name taken off, let it be. Mrs. John Perry In defense of Mr. rJlacP,4illen, I understood, also when I 1801 Arona: signed that it was not a petition against a storm sewer system. In my conversation with him, Mr. MaeT!Iillen's explanation was very clear. I think if individuals had read it before signing it, they would have understood. Mrs. Ledy: I am not questioning Mr. MaeMillen - the reason I did not sign it was that T did not understand his plan. He had a very complete plan and gave it to me in detail and explained about tiling and cost, etc. Evelyn Dilger: Are we the only block that doesn't have water? Can I have water pipes laid at the same time? Lemberg: Hamline is the only one. Just present a petition. Jack Walter 1821 Hamline: Will the culvert pipe be run on the east side? Lembergs This hasn't been set yet. We are not sure. Walter: What happens to easements? Lemberg: You will have to check your deed, probably. Richard Magnuson I live right across the street and every morning I can see 1810 No. Holton: the pond. It was there when I bought the lot and built the house. As far as being a water storage area, it is a direct safety hazard. Coming home from school, the kids head there. Fence is no answer - they will manage to get over or under or through it. As far as the streets being graded properly - these streets were put in by the county years ago. If they were to raise the grade on the street to 226 ~ J~ ~~~ ~ 7 / eliminate the water problem, it would cause a problem for someone else. which is cheaper - to tear up the streets and regrade or put in a lateral storm sevrer? Lemberg: Regrading streets nrnv would be quite expensive.- grades are set, boulevards are in, not to mention the grass, driveways, manholes. It would run into a tremendous lot of money. Magnuson: Everyone is concerned about how much it is going to cost him. As far as I am concerned, I am very much in favor of the plan as proposed. D. Crowe What do we do should Roseville not go along? I think the 1891 Albert: plan is inadequate. We should. be thinking of an alternate plan. Nilsens This hearing .could be continued. Questions The people south of this district - what becomes of those people. Are they going to pay eventually for a storm sewer system? Galvin: May I state first that when a building permit was issued to the church to extend. their parking lot, it was stipulated that the same volumetric area be maintained. People outside the district? Statutes hold that assessment can be against only those properties benefited. If those homes outside the area are not benefited, they could not be legally assessed for the improvement. It may happen they are in an area which will never be assessed for storm sewer. Larsen: I distinctly informed many to stop this long enough to get another opinion or have our village engineer re-check the whole thing to make sure it would do the job .intended. Hearing Continued Stone introduced the following resolution and moved its to August 18, 1965: adoption: WHEREAS, a resolution of the Village Council adopted the 26th day of May, 1965 fixed a date for a council hearing on the proposed improvement of That portion of the Village of Falcon Heights bounded by Roselawn Avenue, Snelling Avenue, Hemline Avenue and Larpenteur Avenue by the construction of storm sewer drainage area herafter called Improvement 65-1 AND WHEREAS, said hearing originally scheduled for June 3O was postponed by resolution of said council on June 23, 1965 until. July 1l~, 1.965, and. WHEREAS., ten days' published notice of the hearing through two week7.y publications of the required notice was given and the hearing was held thereon on the 1l~th day of July 1965, at which time all persons desiring to be heard were given an opportunity to be heard thereon, NOW, THEREFORE., BE IT RESOLVED BY THE COUNCIZ OF THE VILLAGE OF FALCON HEIGHTS: ~/~ ~/ ~~ 2 2b8 1. Said public hearing is continued until August 18, 1965 at 8:00 P.M. in the Village Hall, 16l~. W. Larpenteur, Falcon Heights, Minnesota. Motion for the adoption of the foregoing Resolution was duly seconded by Strandquist and upon a vote being taken thereon, the vote was recorded as Ayes: All. Nays; None. Whereupon said Resolution was declared passed and adopted. Hamline Avenue Water: Warkentien moved, seconded by Black that engineer be authorized to prepare an economic study for installation of water lines on Hamline Avenue. Ayes: All. Nays: None. Motion carried. Albert North of Nilsen moved, Black seconded that engineer check into the Larpenteur - matter of additional catch basins on Albert just north of Catch Basin; Larpenteur, Ayes: A11. Nays: None. Motion carried. Bills; Stone moved, Strandquist seconded that the follv~ring bills be paid. Carried. Salaries first 1/2 of July incl. vol. Fire Dept.~2,118.35 Richard N. Alquist - plumbing inspections 66.80 Ramsey County Suburban Life - legal notices 35.21 McClain Hedman & Scheldt - office supplies 18.10 n n n n n 15.23 Office Supplies Co. - thereto-fax copy paper 2l~.00 Miller-Davis Co. -treasurer supplies 9.25 Briggs and Morgan - legal for June 678.00 Motorola C and E - mtce for July 7.70 Ramsey County Treasurer -breathalyzer test 1.00 Cities Service Oil Co. -gas, oil, mtce. 171.50 Midwray Ford. Co. - police car equip. 1.36 Salute Auto Supply ~~ ~~ 2.20 Duane R. Ausman, M.D. - physical for H. Nelson 7.00 Minn. Fire Equip. Co. -smoke ejector 133.77 American Linen Supply - June 5,29 St. Paul Overall Laundry 12.70 B and E Patrol - animal control June 55.00 Art Lindig Midway Florist - sod 2.80 Construction Bulletin - advertising for street and alley project 32.80 Bonestroo, Rosene, Anderlik and Assoc. - engineering services 93.00 E. J. Pennig Co. - gravel mix 1t9.~7 Lyon chemicals, Inc. - weed control 19.00 Wm. P. Carroll -weed inspections 35.1.3 Gager's Handicraft - recreation program supplies 32.65 Albinson - printing for recreation program 32.25 Satellite Service Co. - " ~ toilet facilities -June 38.80 Steichen's Assoc. Sales -recreation program supplies 295.90 State Treasurer for P.E.R.A. - June W.H. 231.39 S. L. Bertelsen - stamps 20.00 2269 Adjournment: On motion, the meeting was adjourned at 11:30 P.M. Signed ~ ' ~,~ Approve ~- ~ ~ ~ zc Mayor ~% illage C1 1 1