HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCMin_66Oct5_Special2~.L~9
Special Meeting of October 5, 1966
HEARING
Proposed Assessment for
Northeast Area Storm Surer
Improvement b5-1
Pursuant to due call and notice, the Hearing was called to order at 8:00 P.M.
for the purpose of passing upon the proposed assessment for the improvements
of that portion of the Village of Falcon Heights bounded by Roselawn Avenue,
Snelling Avenue, Hemline Avenue and Larpenteur Avenue by the construction in
said area of a storm sewer drainage area, described as Improvement 65-1.
Mayor Nilsen, Clerk Strandquist, Councilmen Warkentien, Stone and Black were
present. Also present were Engineer Lemberg and Attorney Kyle and fiscal
agent Robert Sander.
Clerk Strandquist read the notice of hearing. There were approximately fifty
people present. Engineer Lemberg reviewed the project including costs.
Attorney Kyle explained assessment procedures. Robert Sander informed
citizens as to handling of the bond issue. Discussion was then opened to
the public.
W. E. Pipkorns I would like to be briefed a little more. What are you
planning to do? Just what the entire project is all about
and why we should be taxed the suggested amount.
Z'he questions that come up in mY' mind - our lots are very
peculiar - they are extremely long and wide and we had no
choice if we wanted to belong to Falcon Heights or not.
According to the square footage, we are going to be taxed?
Just because we have a big back yard, we are going to be
penalized?
Lemberg: It has been determined the benefit is in proportion to the
area. The rain fal is on the whole area as a district and
a fair and equitable way to assess is by the square foot.
Pipkorn: We do not have an alley between these two lots and we pay
for an alley and everything else that does not exist. If
there is no alley, it is taxed and assessed a _private
property - that isn~t fair.
Lemberg: The school system is assessed for the entire block because
that water has got to go somewhere.
Pipkorn: Everyone in my neighborhood feels the same way I do. We
had sanitary sewer and city water long before the other
" people had it. Roseville did notparticipate in the sanitary
sewer with our people and they could have consolidated
" and had less expense. My lot is 80 feet by 290 feet.
Nilsen: West of Fairview Avenue, these people have one acre lots.
My neighbor to the south has 18,000 square feet - similar
to your lot. There are bound to be some differences in
lots and precedent is established in reference to these
assessments. My neighbors have paid on 135 feet frontage.
Your lot is narrow and deeper. Problems like that are
going to arise.
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Pipkorn: Is this closed now? We have water in front of our house
all the time anyway since Roseville closed up the drain.
Alan Alshouse I am speaking for a few of the neighbors and myself who
1717 Hamline Avenue: live on probably the highest part of Hamline Avenue, which
runs toward Larpenteur Avenue from my property. I am
trying to figure out how I benefit.
Lemberg: As I stated before, you are still in the drainage district
and your water runs down to the drainage district. If
everyone on the top of the hill kept the water up there,
then the people in the lower spot wouldn~t have any water.
L. J. Rustad You say this is a drainage area, How are the boundaries
1723 Hamline Avenue set up? How come south of Larpenteur is not included?
Lembergs South of Larpenteur is not in this drainage district.
That water doesntt cross Larpenteur.
Weatherston As long as the engineer is here, I would like to complain
1867 Simpsons about the workmanship that was done - where we formerly
had a deep ditch, but in filling it back, there are about
six to eight inches below the grade of the lot and the
grade of the curb and have a hollow spot. Where they
picked up the drainage behind the house, they merely got
a big hole and a pipe sticking in there. It keeps washing
away with every bit of rain and it will soon be washed out.
It should have a base before it goes into the conductor
itself. Can there be something done to it? Is there any
reason why this cannot be done this fall?
Lemberg: We know that these areas are going to settle.
Weatherston: We know that this is so low - a little top dressing will
not do. Are we going to have to cut up the sod next year?
Lembergs Nothing will be done this year.
Weatherstons Has the village relieved the contractor and the bond is
out? How about compaction?
Lemberg: At the time the sanitary sewer was put in out here, the
Village paid $1 afoot for compaction and we are still
filling the trenches for compaction. We feel it is better
to leave it.
Leland Pehrson Regarding the bond - and the interest we pay on this.
1766 Holton: We pay 6~ - the bond is 3-3/1~~ - is this profit to the
Village?
Attorney Kyles The Village Council can charge up to 6~ - there is a le gal
requirement that they charge interest. This interest is
charged in 99~ of the cases on assessments which are
imposed by the municipalities.
Fiseal Agent Sander: It is found that there are delinquencies very often.
There are also contingencies, miscellane ous costs that
the Village has to bear. If they don't try to recuperate
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for some of these, I am sure that over the period of ten
years,. the Village does not make any on it than over-all
cost plus delinquencies.
Pehrson: As I recall at previous meetings, there was some mention
_ made as to how the school property would be assessed. I
thought we would be a little favorable - it would work to
our disadvantage inasmuch as we all pay school taxes. Could
I ask about how the school is being assessed?
Lemberg: Under our procedure, it is set up to assess on the square
footage for the entire school area.
Letter from Roseville Village of September 13, 1966 was
read regarding the manner in which that village assesses
for storm sewers.
Blacks We didntt think we could assess the school less. We could
not be justified if we assessed them more - so it was
decided to assess the same as residents.
Lemberg: The school has 356,000 square feet. If we did as Roseville
. and break it into 13,550 area, it would be approximately
~6~040 and basically that is what this village assessment
to the school is.
J. Fuith You made statement to Mr. Alshouse about his property
],765 Holtons being high and it drains down to the low property. ~,y
house is on Holton and every spring these lots on Pascal
(pointing on map) when the snow melts on their property,
it comes onto mine. How come these lots were not included
in this storm sewer project?
Lemberg: It is the normal procedure to assess to where the water in
front of the lot drains.
F~uith; Then they have never been assessed?
Answer was -no.~
Lemberg: This is an arbitrary determination based on the front yard.
_ _ They are checked out from the street in the front.
Fuiths I register ~ objection to this.
Lemberg; T1~e have grades on each street and it is broken down that
.way. Drainage districts do not follow municipal or judicial
boundaries. 1Ye must come up with some method of assigning
to where the district is and we do it by the front yard.
Pipkorn; Some of our lot has a strange tendency to drain into the
back. I guarantee you that from some of the heavy snow and
rain that has fallen, your theory doesntt hold water.
Nilsen: There has probably bean more discussion about storm sewers
. than about any other improvement, and essentially is based on
the water shed. These are difficult areas.
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B. N. Hendrickson We are stuck for the assessment, but I am rather curious
1887 Arona: about the awarding of the contract to the lowest bidder.
Isntt it true that bids do not have to be let to the
lowest bidder, but the lowest responsible bidder?
Nilsen: After it was determined that he was the lowest bidder, we
_ met with him and discussed the contract at length. He
had equipment, he had experience - we had a Dunn and
Bradstreet report. He said he had no prime contract before
and wanted to break into the contracting field. We spent
three hours of discussion on this and it was determined
that he was the lowest responsible firm. St. Paul Fire
and Marine had bonded him.
Stones After our investigation, we felt we wouldn~t have a leg to
stand on if we refused him the bid and we had no reason to
turn him down.
Hendrickson: Now that the ditches are filled - I have noticed that these
catch basins were pretty well fi~Il.ed with dirt where the
machinery had gone over it. Do you plan to leave it in
there?
Lembergs No, they will have to be cleaned out. The contractor will
do it prior to acceptance of this job.
Question: Was this publicly advertised? What is the method of
advertising?
Answer: Answer was tyes.~ Our official newspaper - the Suburban
Life and it_was also in the Construction Bulletin Magazine.
Questions Any contractor can bid then?
Answers Yes. Councilman Stone then read the list of contractors
who had bid on this project. It was also pointed out that
North St. Paul on a similar project had assessed. at $~.0~
a square foot and White Bear at $.03 a square foot.
Jack Walter The drainage between ~'' place and the neighbors from the
7821 Hamline Ave.s school is a problem. It goes to the drainage ditch out the
. catch basin - will it still have to rise slightly before it
can go to the catch basin?
Lemberg: The village has no easement or power or right to go onto
. private property.
Warkentien: I brought this issue up before the contract was awarded.
Lembergs A catch basin has been placed. low enough.
Warkentien: The conduit that runs over to the Roseville side - that had
. to be brought up slightly to clear the gas pipe. Isn~t that
going to freeze?
Lemberg: The county plans to regrade and rebuild Hamline Avenue and
. they will be cutting down ~. - b inches deep and at that
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time they will require the gas company to lower their
mains. By agreement vrith the county, they will take out
catch basin and lines and lay them back in at their own
expense. At that time they are going to lower them. The
county felt it was unjust to make them change their gas
lines now and then later again. 1Nhat the grades will be,
I donut lmow - they haven~t established them yet.
Walter: The lots are all contoured to provide outlet - the ditch
is between the houses and the terrain rises up a little
before it can get to the drainage ditch. It is abou t 135
feet long. It's the same between my house and Mrs, Dilger's.
Lemberg: I dontt know how far you would have to go back to get some
of that water.
Nilsens How about the school district doing something?
Warkentien: Tt does come from the school lot. How far would we have to
. go from the catch basin to get this_water out?
'~J'alters About forty feet, I would think.
Lemberg: We have a similar problem in many areas - down back lot
-. lines in particular.
Nilsen: That will be looked into.
Blacks Some of us are paying who had no water problem at a11. If
we had different assessment rates, it would cause problems.
There have been quite a few discussi one about the lots on
Hemline Avenue and those larger lots. A large lot produces
as much water per square foot as a small lot. I would be
in favor of the village picking up a little better portion
of the assessment.
Warkentien: We have spent hours on this problem. I am involved personally
in this and we have discussed for about six or eight hours
this very thing. We have to remember that there are other
large lots in the village.:.... ~_ ;
Pipkorn: Do you remember when we had drainage put in when Hemline
. would drain to Gottfried Pit? County put in and .the water
drained just fine. Our water used to drain out - now they
came through and cut these culverts out of there and removed
them, then put the surface of the road next to our boulevard,.
Did we pay for that in vain then? And are we paying for
something in vain now?
Nilsen: Hemline is going to be reconstructed in the future. There is
room for cutting it down when they regrade Hemline Avenue.
Pipkorn: I have seen where they didn't use logic and they went by
the blueprint and it was not right.
Nilsens T would think that nowadays the county really watches that.
Dilgers In regard to benefits - it just doesn't benefit use but it
does really beautify the whole village.
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Warkentien: Why haven't we provided better drainage on Hemline?
Lembergs I will check this out with Roseville.
Pipkorns Some time when it rains really heavy, I invite you to
come to a spray party.
Nilsens Mayor Nilsen statedthat the whole area has been inspected
. by the councilmen because they are concerned and want to do
the best possible job. If there are problems, we want to
~, solve them if possible..
Ths Mayor asked that the people who live on Hemline Avenue
south of Garden Avenue stay a little longer after hearing
to discuss the three .inch water line that services them.
Stoner Mr. Mayor, are we going to consider a lesser assessment
than x$.02 a square foot?
Nilsens Where there is a potential on some of these large lots,
who is going to pay for some of these large lots? They
just cannot be relieved of any assessment. Tt may seem
inequitable but I have discussed this matter with many
people and it is about as fair a way as one can find to
arrive at such„a thing.
Pipkorns Supposing you rent an apartments you have to pay the same
square foot assessment? Is the owner of apartment
assessed per square foot of land space or floor space?
Answer was 'land space.'
Bill Olsens ~fihat is the reason that the catch basin appears to be seven
17$!t Pascal: fret in from the street? That is on Garden Avenue.
Lembergs Because the county is planning to widen Garden and also
- ~ ,Hemline ,venue.
Nilsens - In reviewing the assessment procedure, we felt it would be
_ favorable to consider a reduction from 2¢ to 1.8¢ per square
foot which would make the village portion 16.8.
Warkentienr ~ This village council cannot bind a future council, but a
_ precedent will be set for future storm sewer assessments.
Weatherston: What proportion of the village area? Would.ntt the people
be fu ther ahead to pay for the whole thing now than have
• '. ~ to pa~°~he rest of the village when they need it?
Warkentienr. Some places do have storm sewers put in by the county and
they will never be assessed. They get a break.
.There being no further discussion, ~Parkentien introduced
the folloering resolution and moved ,its adoptions
WHEIEtEA.S~ pursuant to proper notice duly given as
. required by law, the Gouncil has met and heard and passed
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upon all objections to the proposed assessment for the
improvement lrnown as the Northeast Storm Sewer Improvement
RF~OLUTION (65-1) as more particularly described in the notices of
Adopting public hearing and notices~of assessment hearing, and has
Assessment Roll amended such proposed assessment as it .deems dust,
for Northeast
Area Storm Sewer NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOI-VED by the Village Council.
Project 65 is of Falcon Heights, Minnesota, as f ollowsz
1. The proposed assessment roll is~hereby amended,
and the rate of assessment is determined to be 1.8 cents
per square foot for every parcel of land within said
assessment district.
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2. Such proposed assessment, which is made a part
hereof by reference, is hereby accepted and shall constitute
the special assessment against the lands named therein, and
each tract of land therein included is hereby found to be
benefited by the proposed improvement in the amount of the
assessment levied against it.
3. The owner of any property so assessed may, at any
time prior to the certification of the assessment to the
County Auditor, pay the whole of the assessment on such
property, with interest accrued to the date of payment, to
the Village Treasurer, except that no interest shall be
charged if the entire assessment is paid within 30 days
from the adoption of this resolution.
~.. Such assessment shall be payable in equal annual
installments extending over a period of ten years, the
first of the installments to be payable on or before the
first Monday in January 1967 and shall bear interest at
the rate of 6~ per annum from the date of the adoption of
this assessment resolution. To the first installment shall
be added interest on the entire assessment from the date of
this resolution until December 31, 1967. To each sub-
sequent installment, when due, shall be added interest for
one year on all unpaid installments.
5. The Village Glerk is directed to transmit a
certified duplicate of this assessment to the County
Auditor 30 days from the adoption of this assessment roll,
Said duplicate to be extended on the proper tax lists of
the county, and such assessments shall be collected and paid
over in the sane manner as other municipal taxes.
6. The Clerk is directed to notify by mail the record
owner of every parcel of real estate assessed of the amount
of said assessment and that said assessment may be prepaid
without interest within 30 days of the adoption of the
assessment roll.
The motion for the adoption of the foregoing resolution was
duly seconded by Black and upon a vote being taken thereon,
the following voted in favor thereof: Nilsen, Strandquist,
Stone, Black and Warkentien and the following voted against
same: None. Whereupon said resolution was duly dec laced
passed and adopt®d.
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Hamline Avenue Discussion with people on Hamline Avenue south of Garden
Water -South of was held. Letter from the. Water Department dated March 7,
Garden Avenue: 1966 was read regarding the_3'~ water line that was laid
in 1926. From discussion, it:.would appear that Roseville
has been allowed to use that 3" line for residents on
the east side of Hamline Avenue.
Application for Black-. moved, seconded by Strandquist that the application
Variance:- for variance submitted by_Edwin Schmidt at 17.6 North Albert
Fdwin Schmidt be referred to the Planning Commission for its recommendation.
176 No. Alberts Said variance request is for placing column supports for an
open trellis to within one foot of the south lot line. Letter
from the neighbors, Russell and Midred Neff of 1710 Albert
Street accompanied application and advised they extend per-
mission to place such supports one foot north of their
property line and the overhang of the open trellis up to
the property line. Ayes: A11. Nays: None. Motion was
carried. _
Special Meeting Special meeting was called for Saturday morning, October
Ca7.led for 8, 1966.
October 8, 19662
Adjournments Upon motion, the meeting was adjourned at 11:30 P.M.
Signed:
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Approved: ~. ~ .~
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