HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCMin_58Jun9_SpecialSPECIAL MEETING JUNE 9, 1958.
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Meeting was called to order with the following Council Members present: Harold
C. Nilsen, Mayor; Geo. Shavor, Trustee; Paul Coppini, Trustee; Wm. Utecht, Clerk.
Also present were Frank N. Graham, Village Attorney; and Ethel E. tRhite, Dep.
Clerk and Dep. Treasurer. Absent: Willis Warkentien, Trustee and Wm. E. Olsen,
Treasurer.
Tatum St. Published Notice and Affidavit of Posting was read. The Public
Improve- were also advised dates of publication.
ment
Mayor Nilsen stet-ed he felt it was his fob, as Mayor, to bring the
status of Tatum Street to the attention of the group with the thought
in mind that they should think about filling the ditches and revising
the grade. He mentioned that at the previous meeting a price of
$1.10 a front foot had been talked about, but now the feeling of the
Council is that the assessment should be~about X1.25 a front foot.
He also brought out the fact that nearly all the .people on Tatum
Street had contributed to the problem about 1100' north on Tatum.
The plan is to revise the grade to match existing driveways and
match property along the street as close as possible - the revision
to be from 0 to 9"; fill the ditches and construct the street into
a conventional city section with a 30' driving surface and a 10'
boulevard on each side. The ditches to be filled within about Lt"
of the top with ordinary fill and then about 4" of black dirt for
seeding or sodding. It is necessary to continue with a ditch for
the last 300' north of Larpenteur as the County has plans for contin-
uing the construction of Larpenteur to a City Type Section. The
plan is to take care of the drainage by installing !t catch basins
and a culvert to carry the. water about 100' e~.st, as shown on plan.
As soon as the grading is completed, the contractor who is now do-
ing the street work will move in and complete the bituminous sur-
facing.
The Public was then asked to express their opinions:
James Jaros, 17It8 Tatum asked if that meant they would have to
seed and sod the boulevards themselves and he was told "Yes".
Richard Finn, 1892 Tatum, said he understood the X1.10 per front
foot mentioned last time included the so called roll-curbing; and
he was told that rolled curbing is still included - the same as
built along Arona, and that its purpose was mainly to control
the flow of water.
Edw. Bloomfield, 1900 Tatum, asked if they were going to lower the
whole of Tatum Street. L3ungren told him the lowering would vary
from 0 at Larpenteur to about 9". He asked if the present figures
were definite and he was told they were approximate. He asked how
it would be financed. Attorney Graham advised him that the assess-
ment code under which we are proceeding provides for payment in
cash of the portion assessed without interest or for the spreading
of the assessment into installment payments over a period of years
to be determined by the Council which would bear interest at a
rate to be determined by the Council.
Finn asked if anyone had thought about speaking to the other individ-
ual residents about filling their own ditches. Nilsen that type
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of operation would be a prolonged thing, and that it was his
opinion it could be handled faster and cheaper, as well as
more uniformly, by a contractor.
Finn asked if the curbing was a necessity. Engineer Ljungren
advised that curbing would control the flow of water, prevent
a lot of street damage, and eliminate a lot of repair work
in the spring.
Finn said he understood catch basins were not very satisfactory,
that they silted up and were not of use very long. Ljungren
said he thought he had confused catch basins with dry wells --
that catch basins were satisfactory but that dry wells were not
too satisfactory; and that they both served different purposes.
Kemmer, 1768 Tatum, asked how far East the pipe would go.
Ljungren said it would go back about 90 to 95'. Kemmer asked
what happened to the water when it came out there. Ljungren
advised that there would be a sod swale. Kemmer asked if
Ljungren was aware that the lot was level back there. Ljungren
said the actual elevation at the back lot line is afoot lower
than the invert of the pipe;
Whittloff, 1775 Tatum, asked how pipe would be laid. Ljungren
said it would have to be dug dawn some and covered, at about
1779 Tatum; that they would use a flared section and that it
would be filled level at the back ends of the two lots. The
end of the pipe would be at the back of the garage - about 17'
further back than the back of the garage there would be a
little s~rale section.
Schirrmeister, 1779 Tatum asked about trees. Ljungren said
none of the trees came closer than 2' of the pipe or 3' away
from the ditch. The closest tree would be about a foot from where
they bury the pipe.
Schirrmeister asked what kind of pipe they planned to use.
Ljungren advised corrugated metal pipe, 18" in diameter.
Kemmer asked if it was possible to leave a slight ditch. Ljun-
gren said water should be taken care of without it. They have
a l~ grade. Kem~~er asked why they didn't put catch basins on
Larpenteur. Ljungren said they had no place to drain on
Larpenteur. Kemmer asked what would happen if somebody built
a dam. Attorney Graham pointed out that we are not increasing
the flow - we are just channeling it. The water condition
should be improved when Roseville Nursery and Hawkins are changed
to ~kna3n West and South. Kemmer asked why it couldn't be done
now. Ljungren said that by the time they got to Larpenteur, they
would just be burying pipe. When the storm sewer on Larpenteur
is laid it will be 6 to 8' deep.
Finn asked if they wouldn't have to tear up about 300' of the
street again when the storm sewer was put in, and Ljungren ad-
vised they planned to go up the boulevard about 900'.
Finn asked which side of the street the pipe would be placed on.
Ljungren said he thought the East side. Finn said he hated to
pay double and asked what was wrong with asking the University
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for permission to drain onto their agricultural land and then
putting a pipe under Larpenteur. L~ungren said it would present
a maintenance problem, and he didn't think the University would
grant permission.
Trustee Shavor asked if it would be practical to buy a pipe now
and plug it at both ends. L3ungren said not at this point.
They don't know grade of storm sewers yet.
Finn asked if they might not run into legal trouble.
Mrs. Kromer asked if they didn't need an easement.
Jaros, 1784 Tatum, asked how far it would have to be redug.
L~ungren said to about 1760 to 1768. Jaros asked who would be
assessed. He was advised assessment would be on a drainage
area basis, and that drainage area boundaries and political
boundaries were not always the same.
Thelander, 1804 Tatum, said he had lined here since 1941 and
there was no water problem then. Now the culverts vary in depth,
fill up with dirt, and the water goes right back into the street.
He thinks that with proper grading, there will be less flow and
the water won't be fathering in pot holes. He doesn't think
ditches are any good now.
Nick Christensen said he is in favor of good streets but wants
to know the cost; that the sewer contract called for a 32'
street and rolled curb. He asked what the $9,625.00 covered.
He was told: Shaping, grading, excavating and dressing X2,878.00;
storm sewer, 4 catch basins, pipe and manhole X3,777.00; gravel
base, X1,756.00; work on driveways, culverts and lw~rering manhole
X875.00. There will be a credit of about ffi900.00 from Lametti
for rock removable. We are considering assessing X5,713.00. The
village would pick up about 20~ on storm sewer plus approximately
$900.00 from Lametti. The oil stabilizing would amount to about
$5,000.00.
Schirrmeister said if they didn't do a better fob of picking up
the rocks on Tatum then they did on Holton, they might as well
leave them where they are.
It was pointed out that under the original contract, we did not
propose to put the streets back as first class streets. We
were to get good streets, but not first class streets.
Jaros asked who did the grading on their street the other day.
He was told Craig had. Jaros said they left afoot of shale
rock right in front of his driveway.
Bloomfield said he didn't like approximate prices. He would
like the exact cost. He was told he would have to wait for that
until the bids were in.
Jaros asked if the $1.25 a front foot price was the maximum or
the minimum. L~ungren said it was dust an estimated price.
Jaros asked how he arrived at his figures. L3ungren advised on
an average basis, that they couldn't be sure of exact prices
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until the bids were in.
Schirrmeister asked why they didn't wait until the bids were
in and then vote. He was told it was contrary to legal pro-
cedur.
The group was asked if they would care to put a top figure
on what they might accept or re3ect such as a low of X93.75
per 75 foot lot or a maximum of X110.00 per 75 foot lot.
Humphrey said he didn't think it was a good idea to mention
the top figure when asking for bids, and he was told they
wouldn't.
Schirrmeister asked what contractors would be contacted. He
was told the procedure to be followed was set down by law.
The bids had to be advertised in official papers, and anyone
who chose to could come in and bid. The Council was obliged
to accept the bid of the lowest, qualified, responsible bidder.
Mrs. Kemrner said she didn't see how they could ask for a show
of hands when the drainage problem hadn't been settled. She
asked "What if the easements aren't signed?" She was told
we would have to meet the problems that arose as we gent along.
Trustee Shavor commented: "Someone said streets should be left
as they are so the Council won't forget we have a drainage
problem. When we have these meetings, it is not because the
Council wants to put something over -- it is a means of pro-
viding an orderly meeting so these matters can be discussed."
Leonard Harkness, 1879 Tatum, said he realized the Council did
represent the people. He thought a show of hands would cer-
tainly be helpful in giving the Council guidance and he
couldn't see anything wrong in asking for a show of hands. We
cannot leave the street as it is.
Curtis Larsen, 1885 Tatum, said he would probably have as hard
a time raising the hundred dollars as anybody else, but in
this case, he felt they would begetting quite a bit for their
money. It is a forward looking thing to do. Actually they
would be wasting very little -- dust the cost of two pipes. If
he were Mr. Kemmer, he would be much happier to have the water
running under ground than over the ground. The amount of water
might be increased at times, 1->ut the boulevards should soak up
a considerable amount of water.
It was pointed out that Mr. Larsen had made some pretty good
points and that he was an engineer who spends most of his
time working with drainage problems.
The group was asked to keep in mind a top figure of X110,00
per 75' lot and then those who were in favor of going ahead with
the improvement were asked to show their hands. There were 22
in favor. Those opposed were asked to show their hands.
There were 2.
Adoption of the following resolution was moved by Utecht and
seconded by Coppini:
1a~
WHEREAS the Village Council, by resolution adopted May 22nd,
1958, fixed a time for a Council Hearing on the Proposed I~
provement of Tatum Street from Larpenteur to Roselawn Avenue
by grading and storm sewer construction,
AND WHEREAS, 10 days Public Notice of the hearing through two
weekly publishings of the Public Notice, was given and the
hearing was held thereon on the 9th day of June 1958 at
which ~.ll:persons desiring to be heard were given an opportun-
ity to be heard thereat
NON THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED by the Village Council of Falcon
Heights
1. Such improvement is hereby ordered as proposed in the
Council Resolution adopted May 22nd, 1958
2. Vernon L. L~ungren is hereby designated as the Engineer
for this improvement. He is to prepare plans and specifica-
tions for the making of such improvement.
Upon taking the vote the following ayes were recorded:
Shavor, Nilsen, Coppini, and Utecht. Nays: None.
Larsen asked if it would be possible to get a second pipe,
move two catch basins and run the water directly into the hole
to relieve Kemmer's situation. L~ungren told him this would
necessitate another easement for an underground pipe, running
up another 700' on Tatum and that they actually need the !~
catch basins where originally planned.
It was moved by Utecht, seconded by Shavor and unanimously
carried that this portion of the meeting be closed.
Mr. Aiken, 18119 Tatum, asked when the streets would be put
back in shape if the bids did not come within the boundaries. He
was told it would be put back in shape this summer.
Gage De- There was a general discussion regarding the proposed Gage De-
velopment velopment and playground areas, during which time it was brought
& Play that that Mr. Cage doesn't feel he can afford to donate such
Grounds expensive property for playground purposes; the planning board
feels there is a very definite need for a recreation area in
that district. It was suggested we contact the University as to
leasing part of their pasture for use as a ball-grounds, and
that Mr. Gage hold open a small plot of ground as a possible
play-ground for small children. It was recommended that Engineer
L~ungren consult a professional play-ground engineer and see what
his recommendations are.
Ad3ourn- On motion, the meeting was ad3ourned at 11:20.
ment.
SienedM_J!L~_ `~~
Clerk.
Approved ~~~~
ayor.