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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCMin_59Mar9_SpecialSPF~CIAL MEETING N~RCH 9, 1959. ~~~J Meeting was called to order a.t 7:45 P. I:4. , the following Council A:Zembers being present: Harold C. Tdilsen, ~Tayor; Geo. Shavor, Trustee; Vtiillis ~'yarkentien, Trustee; Paul Coppini, Trustee and tidm. R. Utecht, Clerk. Also present were Frank P. Graham, Village Attorney; Vdm. E, Olsen, Treasurer; Nick Christensen., Buildnrg InsUector; David P„ Cartwright, Acting Chairman Planning Commission, and Ethel E, J~`hite, Deputy Clerk and Treasurer. Proposed Apt, TTayor Nilsen opened the meeting with the statement that this Lindig-~,piegler Special T~:?eeting had been called for the purpose of Considera.- tion of Application of Spiegler Construction Company for building n~rmits to erect 6 apartment buildings on the Wm. Lindig property a+, the northwest corner of Larpenteur & Fry: The T~Tayor reviewed past proceedings as follows3 1. T.r. George T,~iembrez a:~peared before the Council on December ~., 1958 and. r:ade a preliminary rresentation of the proposal. At teat time Trustee Shavor stated he would contact the Planning Commission and protiose a public meeting at v~rhich the matter could be explained to the people in the affQcted area. 2. Since that time the Planning Commission has heard 'Tr. Spiegler outline the proposal and has conducted. a public hearing on the matter. 3. On February 11, 1959, r.4r. Cartwright, Acting C'_zairman of the Planning Commission submitted. the Commissio~z's report to the Council recommending that the Village Council refuse to grant building ~rTM;:its for the proposed apart~~ents and gave their specific reasons. 4. The recommendations and reasoa~s were made available to Pvlr: George ~?embrez and, through him, to hr, Spiegler, ;. On `"hursda;T, Fobrua:_°~- ?6th, 1959, i!,~r. Solly Robins, Attor- ney-atAlaw, and representing the Spiegler Construction Company, anoeared before the Council to present reasons for approval of permits. The Council set a special meeting for Ptiionc~2~r, ':larch S-ch, 1959, a+., which time the proponents a.nd onnorents were to be asked to state their cases for ar,d against the proposed apartments. D.obins ~„ttorney Robl.ns, Speaking for the Spiegler Company, adv'sad treat at the reru~st of tie ?~ayor, a.n u~~tists' con~~ntion of the project, hac? been prepared r'nd sho~rred the same to those in attendance. He also stated: The contractor planned an entrance onto Larpenteur which should direct most of the traffic away from Fry Street. Each building would contain 17 units. They were providing narking space for 105 cars at the rear of the various buildings. The buildings would have a love silhouette. The height did not Pxceed that of neighboring one family buildings. They had 2.6~. acres ~rrhich would result in a family density of 38? families nor acre. Lot coverage vrould. be 21~.8~. Buildings would be faced with brick all around. Density of 38~ families per ,acre is well within limits set by the American Public Health Association, which permit ~5 families per acre and 35~ lot coverage. Lot coverage ?proposed would be fully 1/3 less, The Federal. Housing Administration is the strictest and their regulation 1101B provides for Iot coverage of 35~ for interior plots and ~5~ for corner plots. Under that regulation, lot coverage on this blot of 40~ could be approved. Twenty-two-thousand-five hundred square feet of the plot is considered the corner lot. The rest are considered interior lots. There is a permissable density of ~j~ living units per acre which. is well above 38.6 families per acre proposed. Floor area has been approved by the Planning; Co~nmissiona Present Village Ordinance re- quires 1 - 8x20' off street narking ;pace per family unit, Proposed parking space is 1 foot wider than required. They propose tall screening with dense lower shrubbery. met-back of 30' on Fry is set-back required. The proposed ?_6' space betr~reen buildings is more than ,resent ordinance requires, City of St, Paul requires only 1~' between apartments. In T~dinneapolis there are no requiremtns for off street perking except in certain areas. The silhouette is expected to be lower than the peak of the single dwellings around here. It is anticipated and contemplated that. the project will run between 750,000.00 and one million when completed. ":~lis will add approximately X629,000.00 to the tax rolls, Robins sub- mitted a petition favoring the project signed by 90~ of the business people, including Farmer's Union Grain Terminal Association which is the largest tax payer in the Village at +..he present time, P.obins Robins submitted a letter signed by Leonard Thompson, ~.~anager of the St. Paul t'~ater P,epartment,; dated ~~.?arch 9, 1959, in which he states. he does net feel it will affect a drain upon the water system if City Mater is used The extra. drain should not exceed 1#. The intersection at Larpenteur and Snellin~* should be relaid and a 16" pipe laid across to the north side of L3rnenteur. General character of the neighborhood: To the east they are confronted with homes. To the west University of P;4innesota farmland. To the south, Farmer's Uhion and to the north, a limited residential section. Bettendorf P~obins introduced Jos. L. 3ettendorf, appraiser for the Federal Housing Administration for 11 years. °,?r. Bettendorf stated: This is commercial property of high value and there are only limited uses to which you can put a piece ~f nroper- t;~ of that value. t;iultiple dwellings are one of the morn highly desirable uses to which you can put a piece of commer- cial property.. The rentals are expected t® run from X100,00 to °6125.00 per month, The tenants would be a concentrated source of income to the business and commercial enterBrises in the village vrhich :vould add to the value of the community. The project ?~~ould probably bring in approxima±,ely 102 future home owners. There saems to be a transitory period before the time a person decides to build a home. Robins At+.,orney Robins stated nroprosed project is well within village ordinances. Building permits Y~iave been filed in accordance with law and it arpears that the village must necessarily issue a permit. Korstad Wm~ G„ Korstad, 1625 Garden, spokesman for- the opposition, asked to see petition presented by 90~ of_ the business men. Clerk Utecht read petition signed by 1~0 citizens asking ±hat the village grant these permits, also a petition dated T~?arch 5th signed by some of the business men asking th~~t n 1 u 1~~~ permits be granted. Korstad stated he had talked with some of the business men anal had vrritten statements from 11 of them asking that their names be withdrawn from the oetition. This reduced thA number of signatures on the business :m.en's petition from 29 to 18. Korstad. said. taxes are one of the most important considera- tions and asked are ~rre going to end up with 25 or 29 thousand dollars. In any apartment building '-here are children, h~~~r. SUiegler estimates 70 children. ESnmet l~~illiams, Supt. of the School District, told them the cost of education per pupil for 1958 was ~~09.00, plus X67.00 capital retirement. Seventy children at °409.00 each adds up to about X28,630,00 for edu- cation. Ifrhat; is subtracted from the X25,000.00 mentioned 'oy Aar. Robins last week or the ?29,000.00 mentioned tonight, there is little, if anything, to be gained taxwise. ARr, B: R. Teig, Assistant Planning Director, St. Paulg told "Rr, Korstad the average rur_s 3-1/3 x~eople per unit in apartment buildings or 1-1/3 children per unit. On that basis the village would be out money simply on the cost of education. There is also the problem of playgrounds. If Ure have 70 children, where will they play? There is no playground. area on Fry, St. ;~~~ary's or L"aple Knoll. V~hat are we going to do for a playground? In the summer time is when we need a. recreation area. Minimum standards do not contemplate any playground area. Planning Commission pointed out ~~eed of playground area even ii it ^,°ant leaving out one building. There is al ~ the traffic problem created by 102 units. Accord- ing to the St. Paul Planning hoard, the average is 1-1/2 cars per unit. Korstad doesn't see where there vrould be any place to park them them except on Fry Street. Certainly they cannot park on the Lindig Property. That would leave 51 cars to hark on Fry, olus service trucks, guests and an occasional party. This adds up to a dangerous traffic situation. Regarding ~.~vater, he has to smile a little. They have had quite a time with their-water and have spent many hours talking to ;.~.r. Thompson and they have come out with one solution and this is without the 102 units. Adr, Thompson recom:ends that there i s only one solution znd that is nor the '~Tilla~;e or H :alcon Haiehts to put, up a 100,000 gal. tank in +.h is area. In a test, the ~tirater ~,nTas turned on in the kitchen sink at 1-~ or 15 houses on Garden ~•~Tenue at one +,~me, and the pressure fell 10#. One of Thompson's men was there. The Council must recognize that this is a residential area. Th.e commercial Property butts back onto residential property. They have no quarrel v~ith the south 179 or 180' which is properly commercial. They feel that nothing north of the 179' should be commercial. The residents of the area are prepared to file a petition asking for the rezoning to Presidential ~ except for the south 179' which is commercial„ Korstad says he knows of no way to bind the Spiegler Company to complete the six-building project. It has been stated that they will buy the property piece by Niece. They definitely think 1~.~~ Korstad they will start with the North and put up two. He doesn't contd. think there is any legal assurance or that we can bind them to finish the ^roject as long as it is commercial. They can do as they please with it after they get their build- ir_gs on the two north lots. They feel the granting o.f this Hermit would. be against the health, safety a.nd welfare of the village and ask the Council to act according to the recommardation of the Village Planning Commission. ~3ettendorf Het.tendorf stated: He made a study of the area with respect to the adverse affect on property values. Ho checked the area, looked at the type of homes, obtair_ed what information he could as to present zoning and he believes construction of this unit will not materially affect except on the east side of Fry and immediately to the north. If you buy property across from co~:mercial, or adjoining commercial, it is a fact that depreciation takes place at that time and therefore if you do buy with the knowledge of commercial which is vacant,; any depreciation takes place at that time. Apartments are compatible with residential, Apartments are somethir_g less than Com*~ercial. If the property remains vacant and remains commercial, there is no telling at this time as to what might be built there. He feels the risk is greater if property is not built on. Apartment buildings stipulate residential use. '~iirs: Hamm l~rs~ Hamm, lbl~6 Garden asked i^rhat hax~nened if there is an adverse affect on the vrater situation. 'ire increased traffic would be dangerous, it 1~rould increase school taxes, and their petition should ask teat the property be rezoned residential Bettendorf `u'7e have three z~ossible metr~ods of providing water Public, community and in~~_vi_dual. 6`ae have had x~roblem~ with public water in St. Paul for x r_umb~r of years. If public vrater is not, satisfactory because of lack of pressure, the University of ?~ginnesota could determine size of pipe and depth of ?yell to get water without lowering water level. He believes public water would be best and believes a suitable amount could be provided, Otherwise it could come from the ground., Parking: Z'le have a tendency to use back roads. Larpenteur is a heavy traffic street east and west at present. S would su^pose that the traffic would not decrease. If anything it will increase. Land provides access to Larpenteu.r and Fry. There would be more traffic within two blocks. They would take whatever steps required to minimize traffic hazards, Number of cars don't have a. direct bearing on the actual health hazard except by virtue of numbers Potential tenants would work in either S±,. Pa-al or ~;4inneapolis, and would go Larpenteurs There is the possibility some would go north. It doesn't appear this problem would be ser~,ous. 4ctkally access is off tLLhe heavily traveled street;. There is also an access on the side street but signs could be placed to minimize traffic. 1 1 1 1~~~ Bettendorf, Regarding education, a good share of the money comes from contd. income taxes and state aid. He is not capable of discussing the pros a.nd cons of the tax structure. S. P. Schultz S. P. °chultz, 1725 r~o. Fry: He didn't think Bettendorf covered any ground that hadn't already been taken care of. There is no left turn .coming out of this property. All the traffic would flow on to Fry and the biggest percentage of traffic would be at the close of the day and early in the morning and they will go Fry to beat the traf~ic signs. They want something tha-'- will bring additional revenue -- not cost them money. Korstad I Imow Bettendorf is capable and has a ve~^y fine reputation as an appraiser. He has made an appraisal of what affect these buildings will have on property values, but admits he knows nothing about taxes or the water problem, and the statements he made regarding traffic show he has not investi- gated that. Bettendorf did not have time enough to make a complete study. Kulkay Kulkay sair. he owned income property in Sty Paul and sold to come out here because he granted to live in a spacious residen- tial area, and he didn't like the idea of a tenement row across the street from his home. K7 ein ~,. R. Klein said ":2r. Robins made a statement that these proposed units, a+ the highest peak, would not be as high as the surround- ing buildings. The ramblers on the street are lo~~er in silhouette than the proposed building. They are aware of the traffic that comes do~nm Garden =re detour around the lights. Gibbons Tom Gibbons says he wonders haw the kids will get aloes in the increased traffic while waiting for school buss in the morning, and thinking about v~rhat it would cost to have anew police squad to supervise in the morning. He hopes. some kind of play ground can be arranged. He also hopes some arrangement can be made to keep these youngsters from rur_ning out onto Larpenteur. Arrange~en is should be made so the kids have some place to g;o. If they are out in the streets, they aro going to have accidents and maybe deaths. If the apartment buildings do g'~ through, he hopes they will do something -Fo make it attractive for the kids to stay in their ewn back yards rather than running out on the street. ?:Irs. Carlton ~~~rs. Kittleson thinks I~4r. I3ettendorf's description of things Kittleson that might happen gives the Council a good argument for rezoning to Class A Residential. ~Felvin ~~r. Spiegler said the group mentioned 70 children and assumed Spiegler they would all be ~~oing to school. i'e doubts if_ half would be of school age which would cut school tax load to less than half the amount estimated. As far as play area is concerned, 1.6 acras of the 2.6t~ acres is green. He feels :pure they 'can arrange some kind of play ground. Trey can put fences along Larpenteur. That, is a ~r~ry minor thing. Kulkay George Kulkay said ?fir. Robins said apartments going in there would bring 102 families Vrho would be potential home owners. He doesn't see that: much room available. He doesn't think ~~~~ Kulkay, there are over 20 vacant lots. ccr.+,' d. Korstad According? +,o the St. Paul average of 3-1/3 persons per unit it would add up to about 132 children and they took about half tha± number to get the 70 they used. Besides the lack of playground facilities, traffic problem, etc., a density of 38.5 families per acre would work out about the sa-~e as putting 12 families on a 100 x 100' lot. Robins Robins said they went to the experts for their information on water. If the experts had said "No - that will cause trouble.", tha±, would be one thing. If the residents went to Teig to get their information of 3-1/3 individuals per apartment unit, they must. also have -one to the vrater department. B~zilder contemplates 50h of the units t^rould be 1-bedroom apartments. How many children can you get where 5G~ of the units ~~rould be 1-bedroom? If this project were to be built in Roseville, «~u would be saddled ~vith the cost of eCUCating the children without getting any of the tax benefits. That four hundred dollar figure doesn't take into cor..s;_~?eration state aici. The state pays so much per child towards education. Proposed buildings are no higher than across the street. Residents must Nava known that property across the street was commercial. He doesn't know who is going to reimburse the c~rdner for the difference between ~r~hat he can get for this property because it is commer~ialy zoned and what he will be able to get if it is rezoned. This has not been offered in the neighborhood. You are going to have to permit some of that property to be zoned commercial. This property will attract people to it who must have some means. The addi- tion of these people will ena'r-~le your business people to give you much greater service. Single bedroom apartments at these prices attract adult pecple of some means. As a district builds up, it is a yell known fact that the last lots available are the most. valuable. !~s the supply gets smaller, the demand gets greater. If the bu~l~3er doesn't build in Falcon Heights, he will build some~~rhere else in the school district and you vrill get the children but not the tax returns. Generally ;;peaking, the people who are against something come out and those in favor of it are lethargic and stay home. He doubts if the group pres©nt represents the majority of the residents. The fact that we are taking ? chance on seven-hundred-fifty thousand to one million dollars certainly indicates that, we are actir~; in good faith. Utecht Utecht asked Shavor how much of the twenty-five or twenty- nine thousand dcllars mould stay in the village. At ~,ia time Geo. I.~embrez said he figured the village wculd get about $4,500.00 and the school tax receipts would be ~1b,500. or X17,500.00. C, J. Reiter ?rr~ heiter;- said it is his feeling that the property was 1746 Fry rezoned erroneously or by poor judgment. He feels putting in apartment houses would be compounding the errors or mis- judgment of former city fat}iers. 1~.G1 :atm. Lindig P,4r. Lindig said +„he property was rezoned about 1~ years ago as he vranted it rezoned. He feels they are stealing fro m him and he feels he should have a right to sell it. He doesn't see why anybody should have the right to take it away from him. Anybody who built in the last 1 to 5 years knew the property was zoned commercial or should have found out. Victor Lametti. fi+Pr. Lametti ssic? h.g has heard that when the City Fathers re- zoned this property, it was one parcel of land. Let us assume that at the time this one parcel of land was rezoned, it had stretched out t.o 35. ~'~ould we have to have rezonin~* all the way up there? '~ ~ rest of the property is zoned commercial 175 ft back. Let's not have any partiality on Fry Street. i~~ost people here agree that it was a mistake. Two wrongs do not make a right. C. H. Lau, r2r. Lau said he v~~asn't here to find fault with the apartment. Hollyv~rood Gt, It looks good on paper and if followed through it might be an asset. There are some problems confronting us that, we will rave to solve if we allow this many families to come into this area. I think the Council must definitely plan for playgrounds and if we bring in this many families, the Council should def- initely ask the group to plan a recreational area, Gnd give consideration to the ~^ra.ter and traffic situations. I feel we should know just vrhen it will be completed. mill it be com- pleted in five or six years, or when? I have lived here 22 fears andwe love it. Z want to do all I can to make this the best area in the State, and I vrill do everything I can to have playgrounds for the children. Rre do have a traffic problem already, and with this many additional families, I ask that the Council give careful consideration to the playground, traffic and water problems, and get plans for this project's completion so we will know where they are going. Geo. P.4embrez ?tRr. A;gembrez said it so happens that at the time the property at Snelling and Larpenteur was rezoned, I ,vas a member of the Rose Town Board. I remember very vividly -the time the situation came up. Everybody was so concerned ~^dith the question of their property values. The fears the people had at that time could not be true because the gentleman mentioned he bought 22 years ago. The people 1^rere greatly concerned wzth vrhat was going to happen. I served as a Member of the Pose Town Council for many years and we had trouble every time rezoning came up, but the Council felt it was necessary for the benefit of the village. A residential community cannot support itself. It must have business. Korstad Korstad said we would like to go on record that vre would recommend very much a nice office building anal will help Lindig -- some- thing that doesn't create all the nroble-^s of traffic, children's ~~laygrounds, education and. water, u`e ,~~,ill ~tiack Per. Lindig 100. David T:~ir. Cartwright said the Planning Commission recommended that the Cartwright Building Permits be denied and g~ave~8 reasons, 1. F~enort by Sherman Ya.sbrouck. It wac his recommendation that the T 'lannin Commission e d i . g r commen aga nst granting building n:~rmits. 2. Increased traffic, and as these gentlemen well know it was only two years ago the residents petitioned that Carden Avenue be closed. ~~C3, r Cartwright, The apartment will increase traffic three fold. cont' d. 3. t3uildin~*s are not in conformance Frith other buildings in the immediate vicinity. ~. 'dJe felt it would be a drain on the water supply and I have a map of the water s~rstem received from Ed. Pennig. It ahnears there is a difference of opinion in Thom,,son's office. Thompson's reply indicates t?,or~ v,ould be no great difficulty. Holzer expresses great doubt. When the 2~" main is connected at Snelling, there will be an adequate supply of water but no increase in pressure. The lire now ends at Arona and Hoyt. 5• Effect on adjoining property values, and there you could argue all night. It is our opinion that it would immediately have some dehre:ciating effect. .any other depreciating effect would probably incr~:ase the number of vacant homes. 6 & ''. Large number of families and no play area. Tf •-^u eliminate the driveway and parking area ,you have 58 families per acre. IuTost apartments in the city are served by business streets. 8. Petition from the people involved. It was the Planning Commission's opinion t'_~at they were supposed to be more or less of a sounding board but we should bear in mind that there are people whom we should consider. Robins: Robins stated that in their research they never exclude harking area. FHA specifies any property within boundary limi+s should be computed. The mortgage agency said they v~ere well within the boundaries. They have to keep v~rithin mortg;aga commitments. P~obins said he challenged Hasbrouck's quotations. He said he doubted if the present apartments on Larpenteur Avenue in Falcon Heights have a lane? usa~,e her family of 2200 sq. ft. -- it looks more like 1000. Someone said they don't, Nent to families with children. 1`Iilsen said the lots east and south of Snelling and Larpenteur were [0 to 60 feet wide. West of Snelling the lots are 75 to 80' wide. Sh.avor Shavor asked what the family density specifications vrerr~ in such places as P.4cDonough Housing, Etc. He was told St. Louis Park have a control of 900 sq ft per family. The child tab- ulation over 2.7. In many areas the children can spread ~ different ways. In the area in question the children are limited to the Fry Street ~1re~a. Spiegler Shiegler said he proposed a number of swings and teeter- totters. He said h~: had observed the California Drive Ar~rtmerts at about 1 o'clock a.nd there weren't any children around. Someone said. they were all in school. Pars. John ~Irs. Stutsman, P:~aple Knoll, said that down thero a few Stutzman small children were supervised for a short time, but such a set up would. not be adequate for 70 children. T. E, Hawkes IG?r. Hawkes said the crux of the whole ma± er, as far as he is concerned, is water. In spite of all the facts and fi~ur~=s, they do not have enough water. That fact should T. ~%. Hawkes, be of very great significance to the Spiegler Company 1-s-~-'3 ~ contd. because when people cannot get water, they are going to be in trouble. He knew they would have to put up something attractive enough so people would want to rent them. U'1e just don't have water. Spiegler Spiegler said they could put in wells. Fugene air, Leonard asl~:ed how deep the wells would r? arc' ho~n• long T -.;,dret 1767 the buildings v~rere expected to last. r ry Spiegler Spiegler told him the expected life of the buildings was about 50 years. They d.idn't knovr hour deep the wells would be. They would have to go deep enough to get suf°~^.ient water. They would have to provide su~'ficient water or the tenants would move out. The owner could, not rent the apartment unless he had an adequate suppl;,r of water. If the~l need wells, they will have to get expert advice. The finance companies must have Looked into the matter of 'water supply. Nilsen Mayor Nilsen asked why they had planned the parking area on the north side. He Vras told. the narking strip could be moved south and the buildings moved north with the parking strip between the ?_ units of +,wo buildin~-s. Utecht, Uteclr~ asked what, was ±•he contemplated completion date. Spiegler said he didn't know. The people were so concerned about the number of children, maybe it vroul~ bR bP±,ter if he didn't complete them S, P. Schultz Schultz said if Spiegler could assure them they would reduce the number of apartments and put them on Larpenteur they would all go home. Nilsen Nilsen asked Nick Christensen how he felt about the 10' set back. Christensen Rick Christensen said 0. Fi. They could go within 5' on the i~rest a.nd 5- on the north according to the ordinance. Christensen was asked if there was any possibility of a street going north and south. He said Pennig had located his house so they could go north and south and connect with ii~~.ru~st:. Christensen said he had T~:crked on the Init. Miry Project and they built 176 units and provided 11U, 8' x 2U' parking areas. They have a small playground about 90' x 100'. Relocation of The thought w2s, as a n alternative, the two northerl.;- Buildings buildings could be relocated northerly and hove access b®- twe°r~ 2 ard. 3. Originally, tre thought Baas that. the driveway would give a wide buffer strip on tr.e north, but parking area. could be between the two buildings. P,Zaximum Someone asked ,nrua± is the maximum density a project like this Density will support. tie was told proposed project is within 1/3 of maximum use of property. They could increase land use by 1/3 and still be within perr~issable limits, but they felt even multiple daaellings need more space to attract tenants, If they tried to use area beyond a. practical limits they are de- feating treir ot~rn purposes because people vuon't m-eve out this ~~~4 fs.~^. A couple with two or three kids won't be ably to afford to pay 100 to 125 dollars a month rent. "~~rs. Stutsma.n I!ars. Stutsman said people with two or threA children are living in tre ~paritments on Larpenteur Avenue and paying X12.5.00 a month rent. ~Yarkentien VVarkentien asked if it n*ould be jus±• as practical to change parking so all parkin; would be on Larpenteur. Spie~*ler advised he didn't think it would really solve anything and it made it a greater didtance for the tenants to walk. The plan applied seems to be most practical; There will be an island dorm the street anyway, and it is contemplated there will be an opening at Fry. Johnson Johns~n~ the architect, said they are willing to €~o over any details frith the plannin.g~ commission, Klein A. R. Klein, 1710 Fry, said he thinks the feelings of the residents of the area is the most important consideration. They realize they are adjacent to commercial property such as the Lido Cafe, but that people come and ~*o quietly at the Lido, He doesn't know why the former City Fathers didn't consider the fact that the other side would bey residential. -ir. Lindi~^ has considerable money invested. Other people also have large investments and also pa.y high taxes. They do not object to ~ business area on Larpenteur. They do not see the _reason for the prox~erty being zoned as it was. Owen Bill Ovrenf 1728 St. i~arjT's thinks the ;utter calls for a look into the future and a look into the future isn't very gcod. The apartme- t house vu-ill deteriorate in 50 years and instead of adding to the village, it will be attracting people with relatively low incomos He said it could become a blight area. Jarvis T~ir. Jarvis, Garden St., said the gentleman who has most• to say about the plans has not permitted himself to be pinned down on the three Tin points -- water, childrens and ~~rhether he intends to complete the construction of the 6 buildin~?s. Possibly he has other plans in mind. riu~.!-ay Kulkay feels that for the better health, and safety of those in the community, the council.- should act on the reco.nmenda- tion of the planning commissions NilsPr Nilsen said he is concerned with the density and the parking area on the North. This is certainly .going to create a large number of problems or. Fry street, The density is much more than we anticipated, particularly where we have the "arg¢ lot require~rents. In view of the vast amount of material presented tonight, we certainly should cont'_nue to study triis matter and. see if we can come up vrith other alterna-~ tives. Robins Robins said they would. be p~lad to offer their servicas,~but what they wan ted to find out was whether the project as such was one in which the community was interested. They didn't want to abandon the project if there was a possibility of working it out. 1 ~l 1 I l 1 Utecht Utecht said he agreed. with Hawkes and that they have had nothing but water trouble in that ~~2.~1-a Knoh_ area. fit. one time they had lKrt pressure but ~rfatar did not make ds many loops. Thoy have run a larger line dorm Larpenteur but he d.oesn't think ~l:ere is any appreciable improvement in the i~rater situation. ~,s a matter o.f fact, ho d.oesn't, see how they can even possibly think of building the proposed pr~- ject until they get the wrater situation straightened out. As for traffic, you could put a "Ri~-ht Turn Only" sign up but, the only w?y you coed control it would be to put ~ squad car right ±here. Nilsen I~dilsen paid we have a different type of development east of Snelling than we have west of Srelling. V~ater, recreation and traffic are serious and to be considered. ~~ ~~ Johnson Johnson, the architect, offered to go over the plans with the Korstad Council. Korstad asked if their group would be included in Cartwright any meetings. Cartwright said they had met with the group twice and made their decisions and they haven't heard anything that would change (heir r. ecom~:er!'<: -.ions. Cart~avright vrould like to see the Council act on this tonight, and then if Spiegler wants to come along with a different proposal, 0, K. The ques~•ion before the Council is whether it will issue the ~t building permits which have been requested. These are in a Com~~ercial district and all buildings cf a special nature require a 3/5 vote of the Council. Applications go to the Building Inspector, r~4r. Christensen, who presents them to the Council for anr,roval or disapproval. '"he applications before the council cover the 2 westerly and the t~~ro ~r,iddle buildings on the east, but the representatives of the applicants state that we should treat the application as an application for t,rP v~-t.ole ~.ing -- the±, the only reason they haven't submitted applications for the whole project was that the detailed plans had not bn~r c_,-; ,pl ~±e~? ~'or the other two buildings. 1 Warkentien 1PTarkentien paid he disagreed with the residents on just develop- Korstad ing the southern portion because then they would have the same situation which we have on Albert back of the Shell Filling Stat~.on. Just a mess because nobody wants to build back of a commercial building. Korstad people ha-re built next to commercial. They have always agreed that the front part is commercial. Certainly what is on the board is not acceptable. He said the fact that they hadn't made application for permits for all the buildings might indicate that they didn't intend to finish the project as shown on the drawing. Christensen Nick Christensen took exception to this remark and stated that they had asked permits for 2y 3, 5, and 6, which would indicate they certainly intended to complete ±ne project. Robins Robins said application is completed with respect to the plan. The other two were held up because they did not have detailed plans. In order to get into the building season, they sub- mitted plans for It. They have honestly and frankly disclosed all their plans and they deeply resent she fact that anyone ~.. ~-~~ would say they didn't intend. to finish the project as shown on the drawing. P~4ortgage companies ~'cin't Hermit them to "spot build". It is their intention to comt~lete this project as ~hoTrm. Spiegler Spiegler said if thinF;~ go according to their plans, they intend to complete the project within 1 to 1-1/2 years. Shavor moved that the application for permits, as submitted, be denied. Seconded by Coppini. The following vote was recordddt Nilsen Aye Shavor Aye Coppini Aye ;'-arkentien Aye Utecht .Aye Squad car It was moved by Utecht, seconded by Warkentien and unanim- ously voted that Arndt be authorized to rave the squad car repaired with either new or replacement parts. Adjournment On motion, the meeting adjourned at 11:30. Signed ~ :'~ . ~~ ~,i~ 9 ~ y~,~--.__ '~ ~ C1Qrk ~~-' ~ ;~ Approved ~ _ ~ ~ ~~~/ :. aye 'J