HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCMin_59May28REGULAR, P~ZI;ETING Tt1AY 28th, 1959.
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tdeeting was called to order at 7:00 P, t<S. , the following Council r~?embers being
present: Harold C. Nilsen, P,Zayor; George J. Shavor, Trustee; Millis 4Varkentien,
Trustee. Also present were Frank N. Graham, Village Attorney; Ulm. E. Olsen,
Treasurer; Vern J. Ljungren, Village Engineer and Ethel E. 'ldhite, Deputy Clerk and
Deputy Treasurer. Absent Paul L. Coppini, Trustee and tiym. R. Utecht, Clerk.
i~~7inutes of the regular meeting of May l~~th were approved as submitted.
P~finutes of the Special Meeting of ?~iay 21st were approved as submitted.
Lindig Mayor Nilsen stated that at the regular meeting of May l~.th a comm-
Spiegler ittee had been appointed to study the problem of building permits
for the proposed apartment buildings and called for reports.
Shavor reported the various arguments against the project were re-
peated in practically the same manner as they had been brought up
at the other meetings. The purpose of the meeting; was to give the
developer a. chance to come in and discuss the plan changes which
they had agreed to make; but which they had never had a chance to
present before. The meeting was not restricted -- it was left open
to discussion of the advantages and disadvantages -- and the develop-
er did have an opportunity to go into the matter of makings the pro-
ject more attractive. V~~then the matter was referred to Dahlgrens
the Planning Consultant, he proposed a somewhat revised plan of the
grounds, playgrounds and parking which was at variance with the orig-
inal proposal. We went right down the list of objections and the
developer was agreeable to making most of the changes suggested.
The parking in back was originally straight from sou+
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with the playground to the west which would have meant crossing the
parking lot when going to or leaving the playground. Driveway was
too long and would give an opportunity for someone to get up pretty
good speed. Planner suggested shortening the driven^ray and provid-
ing two more rows of parking where the playground was originally.
For better appearance in the block9 some people think a stagnered
arrangement of buildings is preferable to a straight line so it
was suggested that two buildings be set back !~0' and the other two
1~5~.
The Planner suggested the Designer could come up with a better
looking brick, and I understand that the plan coming up tonight does
have some improvements.
Planner suggested ornamental fencing instead of wire fence orig-
inally proposed and builder agreed to that.
There was some question as to whether or not it would be desirable
to have a concrete curb in front of the property. I see the developer
has drawn in a curb which keeps margin of street Vrell defined.
The Village is planning to put in water part way down Larpenteur in
order to eliminate excessive construction costs later on, and the
developer has agreed to use that water line off the 12" if condi-
tions are right. This means that the costs would be spread against
this property as well as other users of the water line.
The parking lot would be properly surfaced -- ±.hat would be made a
part of the specifications.
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The side yard on the north was originally shown as 20' and it, was
sug~:ested it might be made I~0' if Bracing for the other a-~artments
would be adequate. The Developer has made all improvements suggested
by our Planner and done everything r, t could ue reasonably expected,
and agreed to substantially everything that was -requested.
Nilsen asked what was the concensus of the feeling of this meeting.
Shavor replied everybody participated very actively but there was
disagreement as to whether the project should go in or not. Dahl-
gren pointed out a number of very important points that should be
considered -- one was the possibility of some undesirable type of
business going in there, even on the corner, but the way it is
zoned paw it might go into the whole area. With the increased
value of land and the fact that the University of Minnesota has
transferred a lot of its farm operations to Rosemount; also since
the University must have had something in mind when they asked the
Village to rezone the area back here to business some years ago,
it is thought the University might release some of the land along
Larpenteur for commercial use and 250f to 179' would. not be ade-
quate for commercial use, which would require 3 or ~. hundred feet,
there was some argument for leaving this stretch the full depths
Nilsen said that at the meeting of the Planning Commission and the
Village Council, the Planning Consultant was asked to consider the
proposed land use for this narticula.r piece of property consi~'ering
the development that was planned. The inequality of depths is the
crux of the matter. In Gardner's report, they point out that it
is not their intent to pass a legal opinion nor make recommenda-
tions as to whether the application for said permit should. be
granted or denied. However, their analysis does cover those factors
which are pertinent to sound planning procedures. It further states
'Considering land use patterns alone, either a limited business or
high quality apartment development aopears appropriate for this par-
cel, with the latter being a preferred choice because of the in-
equalities of the zoning boundaries on either side of° Fry Street."
Architect Johnson said he had talked to Dahlgren and they feel they have
Johnson accomplished what he has been asking for. They followed everything
he asked for except the north side yard where Dahlgren had asked
for L~0' plus or minus. They figure 27' is about as close as they
can set the buildings which would leave a side lot of about 30e.
They will put in a wood fence- They::have brought samples of brick
for approval and selection. Present plan shows a nicely decorated,
colonial red brick with wwhite shutters and white trim. The water
situation is taken care of now. We have agreed to put in four wells
which may be eliminated if proposed water supply is adequate, but
we will still put in wells if necessary. Design of front entrance
will be repeated on the rear of the building„ He said he would be
glad to answer any questions.
Nilsen asked Ohman of the Planning Commission if he didn't think the
ner~ plan was quite an improvement. Ohman said the density was still
too high, Dahlgren agreed that three buildings would be better than
four or four buildings with 10 units each. Ohman said he canit see
any difference whatsoever. They had looked at the 12 story build-
ings which would fit right in with the neighl5orhood. He still
thinks there will be a terrific traffic problem and. that parking
space is short. Ohman said he thinks we should insist on
the same density reauirements as Roseville ~rhich would rr~an
cutting the proposed project to 3 - 16 unit buildings a.nd 1 -
10 unit building.
Shavor said Dahlgren had pointed out that as you get closer to the
City, you can expect a higher density, He thinks density of aHart-
ments already located in Falcon Heights is 50~ higher than present
proposal. Density of proposed project is only about 15~ higher
than Roseville's requirements which isn't appreciable. He sa3.d
Dahlgren feels the density is alright and he (Shavor) places a
great deal of confidence in the opinion of a man who makes it his
business to plan. Vdhen you go to a doctor, you take his advice.
When we hire a planner, we should take his word.
Ohman said they had hired a planner and the Council did not take
his word. Shavor said first Manner doesn't have 110 the exper-
ience Dahlgren has, Shavor thinks the opposition is based 90~ on
emotion when you have 8 or 10 meetings on a piece of property.
Ohman feels we can run into trouble. Shavor said that o.f the 3
planners we have had, 2 feel that there is no reason. for rezoning
this particular snot. He doesn't know what we can rain except six
months delay in getting it down on paper.
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Nilsen pointed out that Dahlgren had checked Loeck's plan. Loeck's
is certainly competent, He is now Chairman of the Metropolitan
Planning Commission. Nilsen also checked with i3onestroo who stated
Dahlgren was highly qualified. The Council felt that inasmuch as
we are so close to Roseville, we should engage a planner who was
familiar with both Roseville and Falcon Heights.
Robins, attorney for Spieler, said they had followed all the recommenda-
tions that were made in the matter and they came to renew their reams st
for the building Hermit. They expected to receive an answer one way
or the other. They have no final specifications. Plans are the same
except for the front and rear for which they will be bound by their
statements in this matter.
Korstad asked if Dahlgren didn't say the best use would be an office
building. Shavor said Dahlgren hadn't flatly recommended an office
building for that spot. He definitely stated an apartment building
would be an appropriate buffer between the single family residential
area and any business that might be established on Larpenteur. It
is conceivable that a °~usiness might have gone on Larpenteur and then
it would be logical to put the apartments on the north. Dahlgren
said "Limited business or apartments, the latter being preferable."
Korstad said present density would not meet Roseville's .requirements.
Shavor said he would defy anyone to see a 15~ difference -- he didn:':t
think that was any argument. Ohman said present density would be
equal to putting a 6 family unit and 9 cars on his property. Klein
said he couldn't understand why Dahlgren was hired because he is fam-
iliar with Roseville, and then when it comes to density, they are
compared with St. Paul. Dahlgren did state best use for remaining
land would be office buildings. An overall plan should be made at
this time. Dahlgren feels there has been a lack of planning and he
feels that some of the businesses now here will not be here very long.
Shavor said that Dahlgren did predict that some of the buildings now
housing business establishments would be turned .over for offices
but
,
he did not deviate from his original plan which said "Limited business
or apartments, the latter being preferable." Klein said Dahlgren
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tried to be fair. Shavor said if an office building did go in
there, you would probably have more trouble with traffic. Cars
would be coming and going all day long and they are going to park
as close to the front door as possible. P]hat about set-backs?
An office building would probably ccver a lot more of the land
than the apartments would. What about height? An Office Build-
ing would probably be higher and leave less side yard. Kors+„ad
said they could probably having parking :~t the rear. Shavor
said a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. You have the
choice of taking these apartments or something that will give
less set-back and more traffic. Schultz asked if it wasn't
possible that it would be quiet Saturdays, Sundays and Holidays
if there was an office building there.
Kulkay said Loeck's report stated we should develop a wait-and-
see policy subject to the development of the surrounding community.
Their proposal was to hire a planner and set up ordinances so
the Council would have control of what would go on a particular
piece of property.
Shavor said Dahlgren checked Loeck's map. The broperty in ques-
tion was zoned business on Loeck's map, and Dahlgren didn't see
any reason for rezoning it. Kulkay said Council could specify
exactly what type of business could go where. Shavor said the
Council can't control what comes into the Village.
Kulkay said 675 people signed a petition asking for an over-all
plan for the Village. Nilsen said such a complete study would
cost X2,500.00 and there was a -uestion about available funds.
Y1e would have to wait six months or a year before Federal funds
would become available. Nilsen said he is prepared to go ahead
with this planning, but that after we have worked it up, we will
run into the same kind of problem we have before us tonight.
Back in January he asked the public not to be emotional, but to be
objective. Somebody is bound to get hurt. The Council's business
is to protect the Public Interest. Y,(e have no desire to inflict
upon ar;y citizen anything objectionable as far as we can control it.
Mrs, Kittleson said 675 people asked that this property be rezoned
and she didn't see how they can refuse to rezone it.
~Plarkentien said he had been asked by many people what the petition
was about -- they didn't understand it.
Korstad called the Council's attention to the petition by Carlton
D, Kittleson, Jr. and others requesting that the property described
as:
The westerly 285' of lot 8 Annie L. Hendrickson's Acre
Lots, Ramsey County, Village of Falcon Heights, Minnesota,
excepting from said tract the following described parts:
(1) The Nor th 850 feet of said tract
(2) The ti'lest 60 feet of the south 195 feet of
said tract; and
(3) The South 179 feet of said tract lying Easterly
of the Westerly 60 feet of said tract
be rezoned from Business District classification to a Residence
r'$" classification, subject to the present non-conforming use.
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Graham said our procedure was outlined by the ordinance. If petition
is sufficient, the Council, under its ordinance, is obligated to set
a hearing on the petition at a date not less than ten days nor more
than thirty days. Notice must be posted in the 3 designated posting
places and, in the past, we have published a notice in the Rose
Tribune as well. In Graham's opinion, no building permits should be
issued permitting the use of the land referred to in the petition
for any use which would not be permitted if the rezoning were granted,
After further discussion, Shavor moved that the Village Council set
a hearing for the rezoning as outlined in the petition for June 9th
at 8 P, i.2., and directed the Clerk to post the notices at the three
designated Hosting places. Also to see that the notice was published
in the Rose Tribune. Seconded by Warkentien and unanimously carried.
It was moved by Nilsen, seconded by Warkentien and unanimously voted
that the petition be referred to Attorney Graham for checking.
Nilsen moved that Attorney Graham draft a necessary revision of the
present zoning ordinance to avoid a repetition of the present situa-
tion. Seconded by Shavor and carried.
Check Sig- It was moved by Warkentien, seconded by Shavor and unanimously voted
natures that the Village Officials who are authorized to sign checks be per-
mitted to shorten their signatures as follov~s:
H. C. Nilsen (P~Rayor)
W. R. Utecht (Clerk)
W. E. Olsen {Treasurer)
Dance It was moved by Warkentien, seconded by Shavor and unanimously voted
Village to permit the Rebels Custom Car Club to use the Village Hall for a
Hall dance Friday, June 5th, 1959 from 7:30 until 11 P. Pd., subject to
the rules and regulations set out which are to be made known to them.
Unlicensed After discussion, Shavor moved that the list of Unlicensed I~Saster
Plumbers and Gas Installers submitted by Eha and the ~,.ist of Unlicensed Plumbers
P~2GI reported by Dunkel be referred to Attorney Graham. Seconded by
Nilsen and carried.
Trash A copy of the suggested trash burning ordinance was given to each
Burning member present and referred to those who were absent for study and
Ordinance recommendations.
Zoning Re- Copies were passed around for study by Members of the Council.
view.
Larpenteur Graham advised he doesn't feel passing the resolution suggested by
Avenue the Board of Vi(ater Commissioners obligates us to do the work immediatel~r.
Water P:4ain After further discussion, it was moved by Shavor, seconded by Warlcen-
tien and unanimously voted to approve the following resolutions
RESOLUTION ACKNOVdLEDGING AP1D ACCEPTING EXTENSION OF 1~IATER SERVICE
SUBJECT TO CERTAIN CONDITIONS:
1"1HCREAS, The Board of UJater Commissioners of the City of St. Paul.
by resolution passed April 13th, 1959, recommended the extension of
water mains on Larpenteur Avenue from Snelling Avenue westerly a
distance of approximately tt51~0 feet subject to certain conditions
as set out in the said resolution; and
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ti'VHEREAS, The City Council of the City of St. Paul thereafter, on
April 23rd, 1959 concurred in and approved the said action of the
Board of V~iater Commissioners of the City of St. Paul and authorized
the extension of future water service in Falcon Heights as outlined
in the said resolution of the '3oard of 'eater Commissioners dated
April 13th, 1959 and subject to the provisions, terms and condi-
tions of the resolution of the Board of lTtater Commissioners,
NOVJ THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Village Council of the Village
of Falcon Heights hereby acknowledges receipt of a copy of the reso-
lution of the Board of 1r~ater Commissioners dated April 13th, 1959
and a copy of the resolution of the St. Paul City Council dated
April 23rd, 1959, referred to above, and agrees to comply v~rith the
provisions, terms and conditions of said resolutions when the ex-
tension is made by the Villa{~e.
RESOLVID FURTHER, that the Village Clerk be authorized and directed
to send a copy of this resolution to the Secretary of the Board
of ~Fater Commissioners of the City of St. Paul and to the City Clerk
of the City of St. Paul.
Tatum St. I~.4ayor Nilsen expressed his opinion that they should figure out some
way of posting Tatum Street to protect it from the heavy traffic
during construction of Larpenteur Avernie. The matter was referred
to Engineer Ljungren who will study it and come up with a definite
recommendation.
Suburban It is thought that the Suburban Sanitation Corporation, Fridley,
Sanitation T;iinnesota, has the most feasible plan for rubbish disposal. ti;rar-
Fridley kentien and Shavor are going out to look it over and will reX;ort to
the Council later.
Thermofax Letter from Thermofax offering a contract of ~S35.00 a year for
servicing our Thermofax Copying ~aachine was reed and discussed. It
is the concensus of opinion that we will be better off to pay for
service as needed rather than enter into a yearly contract fer
service.
Fire Dept. V'darkentien reported the Firemen had asked if we could get 1t telephone
Training poles for use in erecting a training tower, Graham pointed out that
Towers. such a tower might be an 'Attractive Nuisance". Kulkay then said
there would be no cross bars until second story height~rras reached -
to get that hich, you would have to climb the poles. The Deputy
Clerk was instructed to contact the Coon Rapids Fire Der,artment
who have a 3 story tower and get information as to height, spacing,
etc.
Schifsky Regarding i~aryland Casualty Co. bond No. 90-533581, Ljungren advised
Tatum St. the work was com?~leted August 15th, 1959, accepted August 20th, 1959
Bond at a final contract price of :7991.81. The Deputy Clerk was in-
structed to pass this information on to the I~laryland Casualty Co.
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Streets Ljungren advised he had issued a ~nrork order to the County April 27th
covering patching Village streets and alleys as directed, He met
with Emil, the Supervisor, on the 15th and went over all the streets
~rrith all the complaints received, and the only area where he did not
tell him to go ahead was on Idaho and Pascal because we wanted to
handle that separately.
Regarding the ward rail for the sump hole, this would require
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about 100 feet of guard rail. The posts would cost about 97.00 each
and 3~l~" wire rope about 20¢ afoot. 'dde would also have to get per-
mission from the Highway Department. Suns would cost about ~k6.00.
There is no reason for the public to drive down there. Tracks may
have been made by people driving down to the skating rink. It was
decided to wait and see tivhat happens.
Nilsen reported a bird bath on Autum near Blide's. Ljungren said
he had checked there about three weeks ago after a rain. Will check
again.
Ljungren reported he had talked with Souter about draining across
Roselawn and Souter didn't offer any encouragement. This matter
will have to be apnroaced through the Roseville Council.
It was mentioned that if Roselawn is used for a detour, someone
is likely to have an accident. The shoulder is too raw, Someone
will go off and have a bad accident.
Ashbach told Nilsen he is going to tear up all of Larpenteur. Nilsen
told Ashbach he will have to maintain access to "s~iando Photo, resi-
dents and for the Fire Department. Ljungren advised that the law
specifies no two adjacent cross roads may be closed off at the same
time without specific permission from the Village Engineer. They
must maintain a smooth and passable road at all times.
Simpson and Crawford is so flat they can't do anything without a
pipe or recutting the gutter. Shavor said he thought if someone went
out with a hand shovel sort of "worried" the grade north of Crawford
and Arona, it could be worked out. Ljungren said the cost of a dry
well, etc. would go a long way towards getting a proper storm sewer
which could be run to Larpenteur and Arona. A catch basin at Arona
and Crawford might help. State Board of Health will not approve com-
bining storm and sanitary sewer lines.
On Idaho and Pascal they thought they should take care of Idaho first
and then pick up Pascal. We can drain a lot of water off the inter-
section by taking care of Pascal.
Warkentien moved that T. A. Schifsky & Son perform the work necessary
on Pascal north and south of the Idaho intersection to relieve drain-
age under the direction of the Engineer. Seconded by Nilsen and un-
animously carried.
Gas Line Ljungren advised he received a sketch covering the gas main along
Larpenteur. Northern States has set a location exactly where our
sewer line is. Ljungren called NSP and told them we want to reserve
at least 5 feet for a future sidewalk which left 1t feet from the
edge of the sidewalk and the sanitary sewer. It seems reasonable to
put the gasline at 6 feet to Fairview.
Water Ljungren reported he had conferred with Len Thompson of the St. Paul
connections Vdater Department who has agreed that the water department will not
grant permission to anybody to hook on to the water lines except at
the specific request of the Village.
Shavor moved that the Village Engineer be authorized to arrange an
agreement with the ti"dater Department whereby all connections in the
Village for water service shall be first approved by the Village
before permit is granted. Seconded by Nilsen and carried unanimously.
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Curbing It was decided that, the people on Hoyt should arrange to pay Vern
Hoyt Ave. Ljungren X200.00 for engineering services before proceeding with
the rest of the ~~rork. `3arkentien will talk to Gammel.
Rezoning Nilsen moved that the rezoning petition filed by Korstad be
Petition referred to C. K. Otis, Secretary of the Planning Commission, for
its recommendation with the request that, they submit their recommenda-
tion in writing prior to the hearing set for June 9th, at 8 P. rd,
Seconded by Shavor and unanimously carried,
Ordinance After discussion, adoption of Ordinance 52, AN ORDINANCE AP.~~L~IDING
No. 52 ORD hTAPyCE N0. 8, E^.TITLED "AN ORDINANCE PROVIDING A ZONING PLAN FOR
THE VILLAGE OF FALCON,H.uIG~S", was moved by Warkentien, seconded by
Shavor and unanimously carried.
dills On motion by Nilsen, seconded by Shavor, the following bills were
ordered paid:
St. Paul Dispatch, weed notice It.ll
David P. Cartwright, Safety Council 10.00
V~fm. Jastrow, ~'~ay insp. 26.00 exp. 30.00 56.00
Tuiilner W. Carley & Associates 1113.00
W. F. Smith, Tire & Battery t~..58
U. S. Postmaster, stamps 8,00
Pure Oil, gas, oil, grease, etc, 135.53
Adjourn- On motion, the meeting adjourned at 11:15 P. M.
went
Signed /;~'~/ .~~ . ,EM ~ .____.-
Clerk -~
Approved, ~f
T~,2ayor.
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