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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCMin_59Aug24_Special~~~ SPECIAL I4iEETING AUGUST 2l~th9 1959. Meeting was called to order at 7s00 P. M., the following Council Members being present: Harold C. Nilsen, Mayor; George J. Shavor, Trustee; Wm. R. Utecht, Clerk. Also present were Frank N. Graham, Village Attorney; Vern Ljungren, Village Engineer. Absent: Willis Warkentien and Paul Coppini, Trustees. Bids on the im- Bids on the improvement of Larpenteur Avenue from Snelling Avenue provemen t of Lar- west to a point 726 feet east of the center line of Cleveland penteur Ave. by Avenue by 'the extension of water mains and appurtenances according the extension of to plans and specifications on file in the office of the Village Water Mains Clerk were opened and read as follows Lametti & Sons, 211 No. Pascal Ave. St. Paul, Minnesota $66l~,188.00 Bid bond was attached in the amount of 10~ of bid, Herbst Construction Co. Minneapolis Minn. X50,006.00 Bi bond was attached in the amount of 10% of bid. Robert W. Moore ~ Austin P. Keller, 1613 Ridgewood Lane, St. a ,Minnesota X78,119.00 Rid bond was attached in the amount of 10~ of bid. Montgomery Construction Co., St. Croix Falls, Wisconsin 360,300.00 Bind bond was attached in the amount of'10~ of bid. It was moved by Utecht, seconded by Nilsen and unanimously voted that bids be turned over to Engineer Ljungren for checking and then turned over to Attorney Graham. Hearing - Fry St. Utecht read Notice of Hearing for the Improvement of Fry Street Water Main. by the Extension of Vtater Main as published in the Rose Tribune August 13th and 20th, 1959. Mayor Nilsen reviewed the history of the proposed improvement and Village Engineer Ljungren presented • the technical problems of extending this main. Question by H. Klosterman - 1736 Fry Streets What would be the advantage of running this up Fry Street? Without the pumping station, would there be any increase in pressure? Ljungren ans:rered: Not without the pumping station - It is intended that a pumping station be put in. C. Kilberg, 1503 Garden: What is the estimated cost of the pumping station? Nilsen: $1b,500.00. Kilberg: Who pays for that? Nilsen: Those are problems yet to go into. When the main goes into use, the cost will be borne by users when they connect to the. main. Kilbergs Is there anything different about the pumping station that was contemplated in Maple Kno11? Nilsen: No one here is acquainted with the job for Maple Knoll. Ljungrens Originally, an underground station was ruled out by .the State Board of Health. It has to be built in a separate building above the ground. The station a.s pretty much standard and has been used in a large number of installations. ~~~ Kilberg: Why can't you get the same results in our area? Ljungren: You have the problem of segregating Village. You would be pumping water back into St. Paul to the homes cm the high pressure part of the pump. We would use a gate valve at Maple Knoll tiwhich would act so that the valve was closed when pressure was higher than in the main. However, when the two would equalize, it would open. Kilberg: Is this a 6" main at Snelling? Ljungren: No, a 16" main at Snelling, then to 12". Kilberg: What you really are talking about is not just $6;000.00? Nilsens The whole system would total 952,000; 956,000: X80,000 on the entire line, including the pumping station. All Benefited property owners will be assessed. Kilberg: What is the pumping station charge per foot? Ljungrena Charge for the pumping station and oversizing of mains - we have gone through the .number of houses, some ~~ master lannin street la outs etc --- p g, y , . 0. J. Wall, 1645 Garden Avenues Am I right in assuming that the University will be assessed? Grahams If the property North of Larpenteur were released, then the Village would be able to charge them on an equitable basis for the work done, on the same basis as other property owners. We cannot now assess them. Ljungrena Provisions have been made in the system that will permit the University to connect if they want to. Certain adjustments can be made. It can be worked into their property. H. Klosterman, 1736 Fry Street: If this line goes up Fry S d treet, o the people on Fry have to pay some extra money? Korstad, 1625 Garden: We had a meeting of our group. Vde do have money and, to date, X1500. has been pledged to the people on Fry to offset the cost of this line on Fry. The total is X1806. We have about 91500. of that, roughly. Mrs. Kittleson, 1718 Fry: I -.was wondering why they pick on Fry Street. Nilsens I donat think there was any choice except there are undeveloped lots on Fry Street. f~uestion: Has the Council a~anroached the University lately, or is it just hearsay? Nilsen: We had a letter from the University, dated December 31st, 1958, in which they stated their water requirements were well taken care of and they were not interested in a water main on Larpenteur Avenue as pro- posed. Questions Now that the improvements are. coming on Larpenteur Avenue, wouldn't it be well to inquire again? Nilsen: It will do no good. We have talked to University people many times. They provide for their own use as they see fit. Ljungrena There is a possibility of having 324 houses connected to the pumping station, and breaking it down on the cost per meter side - 1, 2, 3, and !~, the coat on a 3/~" meter would be X60.00 and the connection charge on a ~" meter ~16l~O.OOp That includes the pumping station. Shavor: In addition to the footage charge, there is <~ connection charge. F- ~~ M. A. Jarvis, 165b Garden: Do you propose that all homes connect on to the water system, and what would be the charge to the ones already hooked on to the water? Nilsens We haven't given any thought to having everyone connect. There are a large number of users on Larpenteur Avenue who want to connect immediately. Also some on Tatum, Fairview and West of Tatum, Hermes Greenhouses. These people are connected and were in 1918 at their own expense. They are now having trouble with leaks and the county has refused to do any more repair work under the streets. Stanley P. Schultz, 1725 No. Fry Streets The figures you are discussing are approximate figures? L~ungren: That is right. Schultzs They could eventually run more, couldn't they? Nilsens It could run more or less. That is all you can have at a hearing. We will not know what you have to pay until the bids come in. Schultz: There is no purpose in having an estimated cost then? Nilsens Yes, it is an estimate. It might run 20~ over or 20~ less. Schultz: Tn some cases, people have been quoted some figures and in the end it increased a considerable sum. Nilsen: It is not possible for us to sit here and answer that. V~Te have bids ranging from X50,000 to X78,000 for the same piece of work. Questions I cannot see why the water should go up Fry Street at all because they are not the ones who will benefit from it. I don't believe it is necessary. If it benefits someone else to a great extent, they should be assessed. Grahams There might be a way to figure this out. Actually, it was thought that Fry Street people would he paying for their water on the same basis as the people on Tatum, Fairview and other areas to get water in front of their house. It wasn't thought that they would apply this - what Maple Knoll was talking about - to reduce the assessment. That X1800. would be best applied to the pumping station which would benefit Maple Knoll. The assessment for the pumping station can be assessed to the whole benefited area which would include Maple Knoll, In that case, Maple Knoll would pay for the pumping station along with everyone else. Understand, the Council has not determined any of these things - that is why we are having a hearing. Charles Reiter, 17l~6 Fry Streets It seems pretty well estab- lished that the water main will go on Fry Street. Nilsens Nothing has been determined yet. We are having a Hearing so as to determine whether or not it goes on Fry Street. L~ungren: From an engineering standpoint, it would be better to put the water main on Fry Street. One reason for selecting Fry is that there are more vacant lots on Fry. Mrs. Kittlesons Is it possible that, some time in the future, if the Council so desires, they can force the people to hook up, assuming that a well is in good operating condition? Nilsen: I don't know. Then you dump your sewage on to the lawn, you endanger people around you. I am not sure the same reasons ex- ist which would require you to connect to village water. L3ungren, ~~`~~ can you require people to do so? Ljungrena I have not seen it done. Graham: It is my impression that as long as you are sat- isfied with your own water, you may go ahead and use it. There is not the reason to make you hook up to water as there would be to hook up to the sewer, You and your family are primarily concerned in the use of the water. I would guess that they probably would not have the power, but I will check. Korstad: As I understand the over-all plan of the Council, instead of putting a big water tank in, you contemplate putting a booster station West of Snelling and then another one East of Snelling. Is that right? Ljungren: The area East of Snelling. and South of Larpenteur is not having a par- ticular r~roblem. The area that is experiencing the difficulty is generally North of Larnenteur which can be segregated and put on pumps. Eventually we might build a second pumping station at Hamline and Larpenteur. O~.ir pressure checks 35 to ISO pounds, but as you go further North, the pressure lessens, Korstad: It is not contemplated right away then? Ljungren: No, only if the need develops, Nilsen: One of the problems all of us living West of Snelling have is that we are penalized by the University property. We would probably have homes on both sides of the. street if it were not for the University. We have got to accept the cost and we have got to face it, We have the problem of people East of Snelling having paid for the mains and the ones West of Snelling have to bear the cost. Klostermans Most of the homes on Fry Street are only 3 and 4 years old. and actually would not derive any benefit from a water main. With the pumping station, Z cannot see where the people would benefit. Nilsens You will recall tl4at, under the original proposal, the underground pumping station was in the plans. We were forced to turn it down. Had the State Board of Health approved, we would have been on our way now. We had to hold up the plans for the pumping station until a site was found Ljungrens It is impossible to do anything on Snelling at this time. A contemplated inter-change is coming in on Snelling and Larpen tear and the State does not want to give us their permit to use their right of way. Another problem is that we cannot open up the roads - it has to be done through tunnelling. Nilsens The only sensible, logical vray is to lay the pipe where it is to be used. Mrs, Kittleson: I called the St. Paul Water Department and was informed that, in St. Paul, they do not put in water mains unless at least 50% of the people petition for it. I don't think you can find 5~ here, so can you actually go ahead and do this'. What good does it do the people to ax~near at a Hearing? Nilsens The reason we. have a Hearing is to find this out. Mrs. Kittlesons It is clearly indicated +.hat they do not want it. Can you still go ahead with it? Graham: Your conclusions are right. The Council, by a ~~5 vote could require that this water main go down Fry Street. We are not bound. by any percent- 1 1 1 1281 age of the voters. In St. Paul, it is different. That is not the procedure set up in the State law under which we operate, where 35% of the voters could require the Council to consider this. When the Council starts an action, there must be a !~/5 vote of the Council to carry it. b4rs. Kittlesont They said this is a general practice in most areas served by the St. Paul Water System. Nilsens You are correct in your assumption to this point - the reason the Council goes on this way is to get you down here to talk this over. Graham: We have called this Hearing because the people in Maple Knoll wanted this to go ahead:. Korstads The Engin-per has assured. us that booster pump and 12" main will not reduce our pressure. We are scared of this. Our Engineer assured us the only way to regulate water pressure would be to put a main up Fry Street. We were just as dis- appointed as you were. Eventually you people will want water on Fry Street. We are willing .to help pay-for a water main going up Fry Street. We can contribute about 1/3 of the cost. Schultz:, Why not take this assessment around Maple Knoll where it is to be used? Nilsens We can assess only the benefited users. Under the circumstances, are you willing to invest in the future now? Shavor: Richfield and F3loomington are having trouble now, and maybe Roseville. Isn't there a possibility that the water level is doing down in this area? Ljungren: We hafvehad 5 wells go dry in my block. The water level in this general area has dropped 10 feet. Nilsen: Regarding fire rates which are determined by the Fire Underwriters, I have a letter from the Chief of Fire Protection dated April, 1959 and I will read it to you. Letter was read. Mrs. Kittlesons Would it make any difference in the fire insurance rates if we have this? Nilsens We cannot say until they come out to inspect again. Utechts I suPgest that a roll call of the people present be made and we can determine how many are for and how many against, and get more opinions. Roll call was taken, 8 were against the water main•on Fry; 1 for it and 2 undecided. 0. J. Walls What is the estimated cost per foot? Nilsens Around X3.00 to °3.10 per foot. 0. J. Walls Will the road bed be disturbed? Ljungrens It will be. The line has to be 12 feet clear of the sanitary sewer. The sewer is in the very center of the street. The water will go on the west side. Storm sewer goes on the East side where the gas main is. Questions This is a speculative thing. How long can we depend on our wells? Ljungrens I dontt knew how long your wells will last. 0. J. V'Jalls Could we ask for time so we could get together with 1282 the people in Maple Knoll and discuss this further: Nilsen: Sure you can. Kilberg: Is it pretty much of a certainty that this will result in higher pressure? Will pumping station and main actually bring pressure? Ljungren: Pumping stations have done the job in the past. It would bring your pressure up to !~3 pounds based on your static. You will always have at least 28 pounds. The pump is an addition to the present pressure. Nilsen:We can continue this Fearing if you want to think it over. There is no need to take action immediately,. Questions I would like to ask if it is all right with the Fry Street people to delay this for a week. Now that we are going to be assessed for the pumping station, we should get together and point it out to them. Hearing After discussions it was moved by Utechts seconded try Shavor continued and unanimously voted that. this Hearing be continued at 7:30 P. M, Monday, September 81st, 1959. Douglas Rees The request of Douglas Rees for a building permit for an 13uiiding annex to the old National Tea. Store! together with his plot Permit plans and. building glans were presented to the Council. After discussion, it was moved by Shavor, seconded try Utecht and unanimously voted that these pavers be referred to the Village Planner for recommendation and report try Thursday, August 27th, 1959, if possible, Deputy Clerk It was moved by Utecht, seconded try Shavor and unanimously Salary Raise voted that Mrs. White, the Deputy Clerk, be given X1.75 an hour on a ~.0 hour week instead of the present X61.625, be- ginning September lst, 1959. Adjournment On motion, the meeting adjourned at 10:00 P. M, Clerk. ~~~ove _ Mayor. 1