HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCMin_60Jun15_Special1+37
SPECIAL ".ZEETING JUNE 15th, 1960.
?Vieeting was called to order at 7:30 P. A•4., the following Council l.iembers being
presents Harold C. Nilsena a~;~Iayor; -Geo. Shavor, Trustee; Vr'illis tf,+arkentien~ 'T'rustee.
Also present were ~~~rnard Friel, Acting Attorney, and ?sirs. '~:Zattina Vavoulis, Acting
Deputy Clerk. Absents ~rr'm. R. Utecht, Clerk. and Paul Coppini, Trustee.
Vacation The hea-:~ing on the John O'Keefe petition to vacate the lane
Vdalkway between Holton and Albert Streets at about 600f North of
Holton to Larpenteur was continued.
Albert 600'
No. of Larp. ".iayor Nilsen read the letter from the ?Manning Commission
tivhich recommended as follows:
1. That the 1^ralkway between Albert and Holton be closed to
through automobile traffic by erecting a barricade at the back
lot line such as to Hermit only pedestrian and bicycle traffic.
2, If necessary, the Council should alter the dedication so as
to permit the restricted use recommended above but at the same
time Hermit the adjoining property owners to use this walkway
as a means of access t,o their garages.
3. After a period of two years, the interested citizens can
again bring this matter before the Council and. the Planning
Commission to determine if any broblems have developed as a
result of this recommended change and to determine if the use
by pedestrians and bicyclists is sufficient to justify the
continuation of public ownership.
Carl Swenson, Attorney for the petitioners brought out the
following points: The ~'lanning Commission's recommendation
leaves the way open for the future. There might be some danger
because bicyclists and pedestrians might get the idea that the
lane is closed to automobile traffic, whereas it is open to the
people abutting the lane; and for this reason there might be an
accident. The Village does not maintain the uronerty and there
may be holes ruts, etc. developing during the winter, through
which pedestrians and bicyclists might fail, and the liability
would be to the Village. If the lane vrere privately owned, the
owners would be responsible for any negligence to maintain their
own property. It might be wise to amend the dedication. You
could prohibit narking by the public, particularly trucks.
It ;~rould be advisable to prohibit narking to make it as free of
danger as rossible.
".?ayor Nilsen Are there any further comments?
T. Salminen It seems to be pretty Ure11 covered. HoUrever, it ^oes leave the
cutting through my lawn.
Nilsen ti`!e will ask the engineer to make a recommendation tovrard a sohr-
tion to this.
Salminen A fence was put up and people knocked it down.
1l.G3 8
Nilsen l'Ie r~rill -?ork out some suitable program on this.
Salminen V~jill you make the study :~rhether it is ~~rarranted or not in
two yep=rs, s should ~~re petition main?
Nilsen You people can make a survey.
Resolution ~~Farkentien moved that the petition as presented be denied,
but that the Planning Board's recommendation that the lane be
barricaded to through automobile traffic by erecting a barri-
cade at the back lot line such as to hermit bicycle and pedes-
trian traffic, be approved. Seconded by Shavor and carried.
Atty. Sven- Regarding the word "~"e'alkway", it is actually dedicated as a
son "Lane", and an error would be made if "V:ralkrrray" were used.
"Lane" is for vehicle traffic. Twelve feet is recommended for
a vralkway and tvrenty feet for a lane. There may be some con-
fusion on this, and it would be desirable to prohibit parking so
as to protect everyone.
Shavor tie could do that under our general powers.
Resolution Nilsen moved that the matter be referred to the Engineer vrith
tre request that he design a harmonious barricade. Seconded
by Shavor, and carried.
Hearing Pro- At this point rRayor Nilsen opened the HEARING ON '~rrE ''?OPOSED
nosed storm STORTQ SEWER ANI? STRr:;ET I?+1IP''0~.'? !LfitT N0. 1 FOR THE VI?.LA^E OF
sewer and FALCON HEIG~?TS, 'JII` t'"?~SGTA, BY THE CON:TRUCTION OF STORM SEWERS
street im- AND APPUF?TENANCES AND STREuT I~.~iPRt~VE'AEiiTS ON:
movement
1. Crawford Street from Asbury to Simpson.
2. Arona avenue from Larpenteur to Crawford.
3. In the alley between Crawford. Street and Larpenteur
Avenue from Arona avenue '~',"est approximately 1~0'
at an approximate cost of 514,000.00.
".gayor Nilsen read copy of Notice as Published, Posted and
mailed to approximately 100 homes. He also read affidavits
of publication and posting.
Nilsen This problem tivas discussed with the public over two ,yea»s ago
prior to the time the street vrork vras completed after the sewer
installation; but the Public turned. down the drainage plan sub-
mitted. Since that time, we have had a very undesirable situa-
tion ~rrith water standing on the streets causing the blacktop
to break up.
Mayor Nilsen intro~?uced Otto Bonestroo, the new Village L•'ngineer.
F3onestroo ~'e have been Engineers for the Villar~e for only a shorttime,
but it is very apparent to us that drainage in thearea specified
is a serious problem, especially at Arona and Crawford vrhere a
great deal of the water ends up, Earlier this u°~ring, the
Village spent considerable money dust trying to make the road
passable. Traffic is difficult and hazardous, The street cannot
be kept in condition unless the drainage is improved. ?~e have
studied the matter and come up with two separate conclusions.
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1439
One, consi~era~ole :_±-~;rm sewer; .and the o+.har, very lit±,le storm
sewer out cons i~er~=ble grading. ';"e ~•ave tour streets involved -
!~rona, Simpson, Asbury and Crawford.
The project consisting mainly of storm sewers will cost approx-
imately X14,000.00. There are anproximat:ely 36,800 square feet
in this area. It ~~~~ould cost about 1-1~4¢ per square foot, or
~~12~.00 per average lot of about 60 x 124'.
'~~e realize it is p>ssible and very feasible to make some grade
changes and put in a very minimum amount of storm sewer. In
view of the fact that most of the streets are quite poor, vre
have made some minor improvements and have been able to drain
the vrater out of some sections. ~;'ith the re-grading, vre vrere
able to reduce the cost to about ~10,1G00,00, I might say that
these estimates are conservative a.nd that for the same squire
foot area, the assessment on this second plan would. be about X93.00.
'~e feel that the second clan, being cheaper, does more good in
that vre are able to r.ebair these streets and accomplish the
same result as with the costlier plan. In connection tivith project
No. 1, we would have to do considerable sodding on the boulevards.
ti~','hereas with plan No. 2, it would be a utter of adjusting drive-
ways to meet vrith the streets.
rlilsen Vie asked ',Ir. 3onestroo to explore all possibilities and. he has
come up with the ttivo proposals as outlinod. Are there any eues-
tions.
Shavor Under proposal 2, would the s+:orm sewer go only as far as the alley?
Bonestroo Yes.
Shavor Is th¢ difference in cost because of the regrading; of the streets?
Bonestroo Yes. ?;~e would su bcut the streets to our r.evr design, grade and
then rbnlace the subcut with a good base and. sealcoat, using
No. 2 ~~ggregate. The intersection at Simpson and Crawford would
be droned about 3".
Shavor tr~,re have had Simpson. regraded four times in the vast four years.
The curia is now buried through regrading.
N. Spahn. 4fthat is ~ conservative estimate?
Bonestroo d'r'e i~.ave used high Writes in estimat,irg. If we can combine this
with some other work, vre could get better prices.
Spahn This thi~:was under consideration two years ago and at that time
the cost irras estimated at X18,000.00.
Bonestroo 1't~e have reduced the pipe sizes. 24" to 18", 18" to 12", etc,
The -rime purpose of the storm sewer would be the removal of the
water ir,~stantly or in 10 or 15 minutes. 'i e reduced. the size of
these lines so there would be a minimum of water standing for a
short while.
1~.1~0
Spahn You ha-e considered the alley between Crawford and I,ar:-~enteur?
1,',ouldn~t it rye advisable to have a hump? Are you proposing that
I pay for th-~+ alley in th:,~re?
3onestroo Yes.
Spahn I don't benefit from this. In order to be assessed, ±he assess-
ment has to show some increase in the value of my property.
'-Iy representative at the bank said my property would not im-
prove one penny.
Atty. Friel It is a question of approach. The construction benefits the
village and all people in the district. Although this ~~oes
not drain water directly from your property, it does drain
from your area,
Spahn I counted 112 houses and 150 slips 'reportedly v~rere sent out.
Out of the 112 houses, we have signatures of 52 people to tree
follo~Ning petition:
'n';e respectfully petition the Common Council of the Vi7_lage of
Falcon Heights for the following:
1. A determination that such improvement is neither. required nor
desirable.
2. In the alternative, a determination that the rrope:rty benefited
consists only of those parcels abutting; on the streets whore
the physical improvements =zre proposed to be perforrled.
3. In the further al termtive, a determination that the entire
Village vTill be benefited by the construction and that the cost
thereof should. be spread on the general tax rolls.
Za. In the final alternative, that the Council's deterrination
be postponed until the signatures hereto and ot'ners absent
from the City be given a further opportunity to be h~>ard."
2~lilsen Regarding the notation "1.50 sli~as", v~re merely estimated what
vre would need and then ordered extra copies so v;e vaould have
them for our files and to hand out to the public if requested.
Spahn Unfortunately for us, ~°~hen you divide '~y 112 and 150, there is
quite a difference.
T. Cannon Hoyr long does this gentleman think it takes after a hard rain
1771 Arona for all the water to drain?
~on~~stroo It probably sits there for 2.0 days.
Cannon It drains off in 20 minutes. The filling station broke up
that street very bad during construction. You could claim
drainage of an area. The only streets in the ViLage really
broken up were Pascal and this particular section of Arona.
Bonestroo 4~`e took borings of the streets and sent them in fc>r testing.
Report sho;°ved a high percentage of silt. 6te feel that no matter
what we do to Pascal and Arona, they will never be right or
economical to maintain unless this base is removed and replaced
vrith suitable fill.
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Cannon
Nilsen
Construe±ion is ^rhat broke it up
the drainage?
If that is true, vrhat about
I have talked to someone living right on krona and Crawford and
the problem has now gone to Simpson and Crawford.
R. 1,~. Kranz Bonestroo says 5.3 at Crawford and he's got 5,'3 at Simpson at
ll~fi~. Craw- the low snot. You mean to tell me that if you didn't build up
ford tha_+ hole, you couldn't get rid of that,vrater around there?
It is coming down-hill from Simpson, and that is ti^rhere it drains
because they are both at the same elevation.
Bonestroo I didn't say the elevations were the same. There is a difference
of about 2". The drop is 110 of l~'.
Kranz If you build the pot hole up?
Bonestroo There is a concrete curb on Simpson. If we use this as a guide,
this is about ~" high.
Cannon Simpson Street used to drain toward Pascal, not Arona. about
ten years ago, they changed it around. There was no trouble at
all at that time.
Shavor There was a pot hole on Arona. and Crawford as far back as 1937.
Cannon Ramsey County changed all that a few ye-rs back.
Shavor The sewer line changed the grade on Simpson. All it did was shift it.
A. Peterson, There are some 17 residents on Simpson that don't consider this a
1770 Asbury problem. This may indicate that this thing has been blown up all
out of proportion.
Shavor Every time. there is a drainage problem, there is a good. deal of
discussion because some of the residents are on dry land and some
are not.
Peterson I would like to get back to this alley. Qut o.f that ~10,~t00 how
much is for alley improvements? I understand the alley is built
up to v:here it is above 3 or ~ garages, and. to the point where they
are not usable. I am vrondering if all of the alley is included
in there now.
Bonestroo The only changes tha+ are in there now a.re to lower the alley.
Franz That all~:y never was finished off correctly, arras it. There are
six homes on Crawford that do not use their garages. You go ahead
and assess i:qr. Rees.
Nilsen That alley has been a headache for years and years.
Shavor Tha±. alley has been resurfaced about three times. Rees has made
several payments on than. a7_ley. "~aybe the solution isn't perfect
but don'+, sa.y we haven't done anything about it. If it were any
lower, we would have to use a boat.
Emmit Helin As far as I am concF;rned, I think it is a most ridiculous situa-
1755 Arona
1~l~2
tion the way Arona has been handled. every previous ,ye;ar,
Take Arona and Crawford, +n~re are holes all the vvay up. and
that has been going on for years; and I still don't understand
why, if you have a drainage problem between Crawford and Larpen-
teur, you can't cut a little deeper and let it run off. A
little lower on each side with a culvert underneath and let the
water run off. V~hy is this expense just for the business areas
done here?
5havor It is going to be in broportion to the benefits received. This
is in the manner of all public hearings, and we may be able to
cut dovm on this project, but it was hoped that vrhen it goes in,
we wouldn't have to do it over again.
Helin I would like to have Bonestroo tell me why we cannot put a
drainage ditch in that alley, and for such a small amount in
comr~arison.
Bonestroo A ditch in that alley wouldn't correct the problem further
back.
A P Kinney Normally, the water flows pretty well. In the Spring, when
1759 A~rona the ice collects on the streets, is when we have a major prob-
lem. I think a little more gutter would take care of the
drainage. VIY~y the storm sewer?
Shavor 1'~e have to tivork out some plan, and may come up with sore
better ideas. I think, hotivever, a storm sewer vrould do a much
better job.
Helin A ditch, like on Rug~-les?
Cannon St. Paul had trouble this vrinter.
Nilsen b'!'here you have good drainage, you don't have nearly the trouble
with alternate freezing and thawing.
J. C. Hayes It seems like everyone has a different idea of v~rhat is involved.
1532 Craw- I think the problem is more general. It seems like it might be
ford brought up every two ,years, The trend of thought is that we are
going to pay for this every year. I vrould probably benefit more
than anyone by this storm sewer in the al ley and on Crawford.
A lot has to do vritti the business district in back of us. It
seems to me that this is a long-range problem and the trend of
thought here is that, we are Quibbling because we don't want to
spend money for s®mething we will be assessed for again.
~1l~,000, divided by 112 gives you ~fi125.00. It looks like there
hasn't been any provision for the businesses on Larnenteur to
pay for any o.f the cost.
Bonestroo They are in on this. Vde didn't go by the number of houses but
the total footage.
Hayes I am a little reluctant to have a storm sewer put in because I
ha.ven't heard. from the Council as to the houses on Crawford,
and possibly, one by one, making them business and not residen-
tial
1443
Nilsen e are now in the rrocess of setting up a meeting v~fi ere we vri11
learn the Planner's recommendations, ~`ind will then conduct
Public Hearings on the subect.
V. Landis, ti'Jhy not postpone this thing until you are sure what is going to
1538 Craw- hann_en on Crawford?
ford
Nilsen Nobody knows what the future will bring. 'r'+'e have no plans. If
someone comes along vrith the money --- no one knows what will happen.
L:~A r.~yer, You claim this is a problem now. Two years ago it was evident that
1794 Asbury the majority of the residents were opposed to it. VJYio is bringing
this matter up? Let those who are instig~ting this, those who are
interested, have it and let them pay for it.
Nilsen I have been up to Simpson many times to see if we could solve
the problem. ~`:"e can't drain the water into the sanitary sewer.
i'.`e ha~-e tried to hold taxation to a minimum. Vie have consulted
the bituminous industry and have asked a lot of advice, l`,'e
have operated the last few years on a very minimum budget. '~~e
asked r.gr. Bonestroo to study this problem and get this thing
licked. This :14,000. proposal is the same as two years ago,
but now, by reducing the size of the pipes to drain off the water
not instantly, but soon, vre were able to reduce the cost.
Another thing, this is a health problem.
Krgnz Is the G>125.00 figure per 60 foot frontage?
3onestroo Yes, it is 60 x 124' on a square foot basis.
Helin Is there a formula on a sliding scale assessment?
Bonestroo It has been tried, but it becomes so complicated it becomes a court
case. ~o~ie do know tha±. we can go to Court with this and .substantiate
it. This, ti"re know, will hold up. The Vi ~.lage of ?loomington has a
formula ~vhere the Council assesses 80~ on an area basis and 20~
go~s on general taxes. This is contingent upon Council action.
Cannon j°;~e people who have lawns and flower beds are shedding just as
much water as a business street? Do you mean to sit there and tell
us that lawns and flower beds give as much water as a black-top
business building?
Bonestroo Naturally, a blacktop road will run off 85~ or so. You cannot
argue the point too well.
J. Tdikkelson There have been problems about water standing in the east.
1731 Simpson There have been monies spent to correct this and the problems are
still there. I think the Council's action in hiring an engineer
who specializes in this kind_of work is wise, T think this is the
way to go about getting the thing cleared up. He and his firm
should be respected for their suggestion that the streets be
graded so the water will run off, '~t~e must all recognizethat the
water stops at some unfortunate fellow's door. It is short-sighted
to say it doesn't bother me, and I don't want to pay for it, dis-
tribute the cost throughout the community. Tv~o years ago the
problems were not on Simpson. ~'my, tivhen the streets were graded two
years ago, weren't they graded so the water would drain? 1~thy does
the water now stand in the street. Is there any part of this cost
il~44
that could be held against the contractors who did the
work previously'? The people vsho rebuilt the road evidently
did not restore it to its previous condition. is there any
way they could be held responsible?
Nilsen I think the bond expired a year ago, The work was accepted.
t,4ikkelson If they are not liable, then is it possible to make this job
part of the over-all plan for the whole Village? Perhaps
we can correct the drainage of the whole Village, make it a
part of the future system, and assess everyone for it.
Bonestroo The Village has been divided into Drainage Districts. There
has been considerable money spent for surveys, anal the prob-
lems in each community are different. Why don't we put this
on general taxes? One of the reasons is that there •re many
drainage problems throughout the Village. The ditch solution
on Ruggles is not a good permanent solution. I do feel th?t
if you are going to throw this on general taxes, then when
we do ~-:pork elsewhere, you are going to be assessed for it
over there.
ti'J:3rkentien If we put this on general taxes and improve the whole village,
think tivhat the taxes will be. One main point - we knew of
the trouble on Simpson at the ±.ime we accepted the sewer.
About 15 of us vrent over the Village Streets one Oaturday.
We were not satisfied that all .had been done that could have
been done. V~~e had no alternative but to accent the opinion
of the engineer. ti'~e did the best we could at the time, I
have ultimate confidence that what ?~tr. Bonestroo ?proposes
at this time is the best solution.
Nilsen When you try to spread the cost over the whole Villas-e, what
do you get? A little job here and a little job there. tine
finally have gotten -to the position where we can program this
work.
? 1526
Crawford There is a big hole in our garage that is filled with hater.
Last summer, there were three or four children playing in
the mud in front of my home, and the water wa.s stagnant. This
is a problem. All of us want the work done but in a more
economical manner.
Alilsen I have about six pages from the Hering about tyro years ago
where it ~Aras pointed out that everyone who builds a home,
blacktops a drive, or puts in side-walks adds to the problem -
even if he is situated on a high dry hill, by decreasing the
natural a'~sorption and. increasing the run-off.
L. 3ratsch You talk about the area on Crawford and Simpson, the assess-
178l~ Simpson ment line runs just across me. 1lhat about the people on
Pascal? Every year they have work done on the_r stree's.
Aren't they going to be assessed?
Bonestroo That h?s been set up as a separate district.
3ratsch Two years ago they were excluded because they had natural
drainage out to Larnenteur.
145
Fred Stocker It seems to me that the road is high at the curb and low in
1718 Simpson the middle. It seems illogical to me to p-rade it like that.
I say that, the water will-go around that street and drain
onto Pascal. It appears to me that if a little grading
were done, it ti~rould run off there.
Utecht ~'.'e a~r~e that thE: road was not put in correctly. IV'o~v we have
facilities on Larpenteur Avenue to take care of that zf we
do it right.
Spahn I am as civic minded as anybody. I vrork for a concern clown-+.,ovrn
and I am used to seeing a lot more long-range planning done.
?:re ire talking about a small block - I would like to see a
long-range elan with a change in the assessment rate here.
I can't see hovrzFre can sit here as citizens and listen to the
garbage tha±. the business districts vrill not benefit more
than a home ovrner. I would like to see the over-all elan
for the Village. +P}e tivould be better off if we had longer
range planning. I would like to suggest a postponement.
P~lilsen 'T'his particular problem can be solved without the problems of
ot~:er areas because this problem is peculiar to this area.
You cannot control the bird baths unless you have a concrete
curb and ~:u±ter.
Spahn Are we really accomplishing anything so far? Let us posttione
this thing and come up ~.5;ith a ;Waster plan. I ~rtrould like to
volunteer a citizen's committee ar_d look into this thing.
Any time you vrant to call on me, please feel free.
rtirilsen ire realize the Village made s~oa?e mistakes as ~~ e Trent along on
this and -sae ire trying.
::Hahn The bond expired and so where are v,~e. I urant to see an o~.rer-all
plan.
~'arkenti en`:Sa.ster plan of what?
Shavor The entire Village?
Spahn Yes.
~ratsch T.:;e would like an explanation of whet er it Urould be better to do
this ttiir.~- as an over-a.ll ~~illage project. Is it better to do
it piece-meal or as an over-a11 -project?
Shavor .'T'here is really no use working for a master plan. Has there ever
been a master project on storm sewer systems?
Kranz Have the streets ever been sealed?
~onestroo No.
Kranz ti'ion't it take care of the situation if we put seal coat on these
roads and some blacktop in ±,hat hole? They do it, all over St.
Paul. !-;hy can't we seal coat these streets?
1i~46
"'i?ckelson I vivant to clarify the reason some of these questions vrerc
raised. ~~Ihat if in another three years vve find the only
way the whole village vrill be cleared is to install a vrhole
system of stone sewers? You say the only feasible vray is t: -
ge+~ one drainage district a+. a time. ~ventual.ly, will ^nre
have to put in storm sewers and spend even more money? Is
this really permanent or temporary? I am for Netting this
drainage the best vray we can. Is it feasible to look at the
whole Village?
~onestroo First of all, there is no ruestion in my mind. but vrhat
either of the plans presented will take care of the problem
in this sub-district. 'e":'hen this problem is solved., it is
solved. The enti re Village has been generally solved., ~°:`e
know pretty yell where the v,~ater in the entire Village will
run. In this particular case, it is specific. It is going
to drain as proposed at this hearing. If, in the fut~zre,
there are any other assessments for drainage, you will be
excluded. A plan has been made for the drainage and. vve a.re
just going through a phase of it. ~'.~e have studied the over-
all plan; and for this particular area .have been able to
make a more economical and practical solution. l~,'e would
like to put in a decent base on Arona. Llanystreets do not
have a. decent base. Samples showed as high as 53: silt. 'r'ye
are not allowed to go over 10;~. t,~e do have a plan for this
area, y,re are pulling away from this plan just a little. Vie
have to put in a 12'f sub-cut on 1~rona. t'~e may have to get
more and we may not.
P!Iikkelson Then this will not have to be undone?
Bonestroo Ido. It is rather confusing to me to come to a meeting and
find a petition against a plan that hasn't even been
presented -- something on ;°~~hich nobody had complete information.
Landis Isn't this substantially the same thing as two years aA_o?
3onestroo No, it is ``°8,000. cheaper.
Nilsen The engineers have been able to make this redaction by planning
to cut Down on the amount of storm sewer and take care of some
of the drainage ~~ grading,
Cannon 'iShen the drainage on Simpson vrent to Pastcal, there was no
trouble. Can't Famsey County be held responsible for ruining
Crawford?
Shavor Is there anyone here interested in draining Simpson?
"irs. Kjeldsen.I believe vre ha-e a problem today, I would like to improve my
1688 Arona property but have been told I cannot until the drainage problem
is solved.
1!~l~7
";?ik~celson A~~narently there is a problem. I am one to say there is.
Up to this time there hasn't b=yen a problem. Part of this is
drainage and Hart of this is the street. Is there any way you
can pro-rate this?
Nilsen Up to this time we have been talking about 100` assessment.
'~~,'e went into the Sanitary Sewer System as a Village, not area-
wise, and 70~" of the cost was placed on a direct assessment
basis and 3~% pro-rated over the entire Village. '?'he action
on this particular storm sewer Vrould probably establish a pre-
cedent, Some Villages make direct assessments of 80? and put
20°' on general taxes. Others 75 to 2~1, somewhere in that
bracket.
Kinney Th=at gentleman has a good suggestion. I think everybody will
agree that we a~^e all better off to get the ureter out of the
district. ?.4ost, of us feel that to get that water out for
ten to fourteen thousand dollars is just out of line. It
doesn't seem to me this area should be stuck for a new street
and putting it on a pro-rated basis makes good sense to me.
Bonestroo Tf you look at proposal 1 versus proposal 2, they are just the
reverse. Proposal 1 calls for "10,000, vrorth of storm sewer
alone so it is actually a reversal - that's why vre feel we are
killing two birds with one stone.
Schmitt, I am just repeating. I understood SlI~,000. involved the storm
17?_s Asbury sewer and the x'10,500. just surface grading. Z~~ith the surface
grading, where does this drain?
Bonestroo VYe are going to have a storm sewer from Larpenteur to the alley
to take care of the water directed to that point by the surface
grading.
Schmidt On this assessment basis, how many homes ire there, 112? If this
should happen to Hass, I would think it should be assessed on a
square foot basis. V~ihen it comps to the business places, they
should pay twice as much. As far as the water standing in the
street is concerned, that is no problem, Couldn't there be some-
thing done by blacktopping and concrete? I am against storm
sewer.
:~ik_kelson Suppose vre set a rate on this job? Does that mean that all jobs
will be handled on the same basis? I don't think we should tie
ourselves to one rate.
Carley, 1720 Is this X93.00 figure given assuming there are 112 homes?
Snelling
Bonestroo This is 100 ratio. Purely hypothetical,
Dr. Hayes Do I understand that, for practical purposes, the whole Village
is being divided into drainage districts?
Nilsen That is correct.
lt~t~8
R. Keyes These boundary lines are. then set as of the moment? `then,
1725 Arona if a policy decision is made to define the cost of any
surface water removal, the rate is set? In the future,
we will not be assessed for the cost of draining any o+.,her
district? 'basically, I think the Council is faced with a
policy decision, namely, are you Being to do something about
an alleged problem or not? You have heard a lot of testimony
from people here and from the engineer so it is up to you to
make some decision on it. °1r. Spahn, I thinks is on the
right track. '='.Te know that long-range planning is on. V, e are
talking simply about removal of surface water. One way is by
storm sewer and the other is by run-off. One is a ditch and
the other is curbing at the edges of the street. I think
you have to go back to the engineer and the council and decide
on the basis of footage. You will have to tiveigh in terms of
this and in several districts, and it does involve money.
You have got the problem, take the evidence and go back and
make a. decision about this thing. Only the. engineer can
settle these problems about what is best and. most practical.
Schmidt Does the alternative plan involve putting in curbs?
Bonestroo No, there would. have to be a petition along Arona for this,
Nilsen V~hat is the plan along the boulevard section?
Bonestroo It will remain the same as it is now.
Nilsen ate have tried to get the ideas of people who have raised
their hands. Is there anyone else wishing to be heard?
Peterson ~P~ill a catch basin be the answer? He is the first engineer that
h:as` admitted that Larpenteur is higher than Crawford.
Nilsen '~V`e have to work this out. The alternate elan is entirely new
to the Council. a";e asked Bonestroo to come in with a permanent,
sensible plan. I realize you want the Council to proceed and
that you want something that is not going to have to be done
over and. over again. As far as I could observe, it is largely
a drainage problem. It looks like it might be somewhere
around the 75q property owner, Village 25% basis.
tiaarkentien I move that we continue this hearing to June ?_lst at 7:00 P. ':~'.
Resolution ~~otion seconded by Utecht and carried.
Atty. Friel The fact that the street is being reconstructed is incidental to
the drainage problem. For that reason, I cannot see from any
standpoint, that there is any basis for separating this into
drainage on hand hand and street on the other.
Rezoning Lee-
Schmelz Bros. John Yngve, tittorney, reviewed Sch~aelz brothers' re~uest for
rezonin
of the Lee P
d
t
d
g
roper
y an
requFste
a decision.
l~l~9
Resolution After discussion, Shavor moved that the petition for the
rezoning of the Lee properties be denied as recommended by
the Planners and the Planning Commission in view of the
fact that this plot is in an area for which ultimate use has
not yet been established. Seconded by Utecht and carried.
Adjournment Qn motion by Utecht, the Meeting adjourned at 11:34 P. ".".
Signed~~,~~~~~-~-
Clerk.
Ax~nr o ve
^~~?ayor.
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