HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCMin_60Jun21_SpecialSPECIAL '::?rETING JUNE 21, 1960.
1l~51
Meeting was callad to order at 7:20, the following Council ~~rembers being present:
Ha„old C. Nilsen, r,~ayor; George Shavor, Trustee; Paul Conpini, Trustee; 'Jfillis
VJarkentien, Trustee; VTm, R. Utecht, Clerk. Also present wrere Bernard Friel,
Acting Village Attorney, Otto Bonestroo, Engineer; l~fm. E, Olsen, Treasurer; and
Ethel E. ~"~hite, Dep. Clerk and Dep. Treas.
Storm Sewer P:Sayor Nilsen opened the Hearing saying a lot of money has been
& street spent on Arona and Crawford and vve should do something so that
repair any money spent in the future vrill bring more permanent results.
As long as vre have water standing on the streets, we are faced
with continuous maintenance.
Bonestroo If we are going to do this thing correctly, we are going to have
to do one of tv~ro things -- either go ahead with the elan as
originally submitted or, at least, install storm sewer to the
alley. If the ?~eo~le turn down both the proposals, the temporary
solution would be to work out a swale section to move the water
through an oven ditch down to the alley between Larpenteur and
Crawford and then pick it up with the storm sewer. The actual
pipe would cos± about X2000.00. We can make some curb and
gutter adjustments but that wouldn't be correcting Arona. The
52000.00 expenditure would amount to an assessment of .517.50.
We are still t,al king about full assessment. We have not gone
into assessments with the Council. This would be a temporary
solution.
Peterson, V~hich streets do the second plan nrouose to tear un and
Asbury resurface?
Bonestroo V1e would have to rework Arona to about 100' North of the inter-
section. Check the mate ial at the intersection of Arona and
Crawford, and 100' from the curb line on Simpson.
Dr. Hayes I am wondering if you are going to cut the Crown on Crawford,
Bonestroo We have to ±ake the crown out on Asbury and Crawford. At Arona,
we have no crown at all and very poor drainage. The grade is real
flat and that is part of the reason the street is breaking up.
Hayes ~':rhat are you going to do from Asbury to Arona?
Bonestroo Vle are going to blade this and we will have to go back and blend
the grade.
Hayes There is a big water hole in the alley between Larpenteur and Crawford.
The water stands right in hack of my garage. I wonder what can be
done.
Bonestroo ~~Te intend to go back and blend this alley in.
Hayes The catch basin at Larpenteur is too high.
Bonestroo That's true all along Larpenteur. There wasn't very much coopera-
tion on the Hart of the County when these catch basins were placed,
We have met with the County and there isn't anything we can do
about it. The County says they were placed to drain Larpenteur.
Hayes Would the alley be cut down?
1l~52
Bonestroo ~'or about 100'.
Hayes If this is not corrected by the plans you now have, what guarantee
do we have from you tha+, this .thing will be rectified?
Bonestroo We have some extremely satisfied clients. 'dine do put in a little
more effort to see that the work is done satisfactorily. We
have not yet done much for the Village but I am sure the Council
has noticed that we do take more interest ?nd do a little better
job. tide have a competent staff. Vde have former employees of the
Highway Department in our employes. I think we can correct ex-
isting trouble soots by simple engineering. Why it wasn't done
before, T don't know,
Hayes Do you guarantee your work? If you guarantee your work, I will
go for it.
Conpini We have had more compliments on our streets since T~ir. Bonestroo
has been doing the engineering than we ever had. before. Resi-
dents have stopped me to tell me how pleased they are with the
work done on t'~~eir streets.
Hayes V~'hen I pay a dollar, I want to get a dollar's worth. I want to.
know, do you guarantee the work or not.
Conpini I sell bearings, but I can't guarantee them.
Hayes You replace one if it is faulty.
Nilsen These problems involve the expenditure of money and I think the
people of Falcon Heights are willing to spend money if they
have a job done well, and I think the Council and ~,~r. '~onestroo
understand. ~F~re would like to see that what we do from now on
is done rrox~erly.
Hayes I think ?!Ir. .Bonestroo realizes how many problems we have in
Falcon Heights and I think he will realize if he doesn't do a good
job on this, he might not be considered on future work.
James U'dalker Is the work necessary from the alley on due to the fact that the
drain on Larpenteur is not correct?
Bonestroo V'de are allowed to use the catch basin,. but the fact that it was out
in for Larpenteur Avenue is the major problem for us.
Walker ~dhy can't it be put down on the surface and used?
Bonestroo Because water can't flow ut~-hill.
G. Schmidt Since the last rain, I checked all over the place. There was a
lot of water flowing. It seems to me that the drainage 1~evel is
there. The water was flowing beautifully. I w$nt back about six
hours later, and the water was still flowing, but there vrere not
holes all over. I went again the .next day and the water was al-
most gone. It seems to me it is a matter of filling the pot holes.
After the holes a.re filled, the water should flow.
Nilsen Did you understand that Bonestroo intends to allow the water to
flow over the surface to the alley where he was going to put the
storm sewer?
I
153
Schmidt You have water standing after a heavy rain, bu±, after a while,
it will drain.
Nilsen Not on Simpson.
Schmidt If the pot h:~les were filled, it should drain.
Nilsen Except for the residual water.
Schmidt There wouldn't be residual water if the not holes were filled
so the water could drain.
Bonestroo ti"~e can drain Simpson but there won't be any curb or ~u.+., ter left.
If we were to go in and swale Simpson, we would practically cover
all the curb and gutter.
Schmidt It didn't seem so after the last rain.
Bonestroo After the last rain, there was 1/10 of ~ foot of water standing
and this is vrhat ruins our roads. You ca.n't keep a black-top
street in condition if vrater stands on it.
Schmidt If the road level is fine d up, the water will run out.
Bonestroo If the people are willing to let us cover up their curb and. gutter,
we ca.n do that. If they vrant to pay 52,25 per foot for curb and
gutter and then let us rase the street to cover it, we can do that.
As an engineer, I think that': foolish,
Shavor Simpson is so high the water is backing up into the driveways. d're
can't keep building it up.
Cannon In the first place, I agree that a storm sewer from Larpenteur
to the alley is a good idea. Thera is a terrific amount of water
flowing from Snelling .venue. Somet'~:ing should be done to keep
that water off Cra~nrford. There is more drop between Simpson and
Pascal than there is 'oetween Simpson and Arona. There is more
water in the gu±,ter from Arona to Simpson and it vrould be a very
simple -u tier to dig the ditch a little deeper and let the water
drain to Pascal. If you correct Simpson and then put your pipe in
the alley, you should. be able to correct that problem. The ]_evel
at Larpenteur an d Pascal is a lot lower than the Level at Arona
and Larpenteur -- probably about half afoot. It is lo:tirer a.t
Pascal and Crawford than it is at Arona and Crawford.
3onestroo It might be slightly lovrer there.
Cannon As long as you have a natural down-hill grade, why wouldn't it
be smarter to pass the Simpson water to Pascal?
Bonestroo Let me take you back. The one time the Council considered a storm
sewer which included running up that far, it eras turned dovrn.
Certainly it vrould be much more logical.
Cannon Pascal would drain Crawford and garden. You vrould add. very little
more vrater by draining Simpson over there, and you could get.rid
of it by putting in ~~ ditch of not o~.-er !~ to 6" and then drain it
in a way that, would be no problem at all. ~d`hy put additional vrater
on Arona? ~;Y'hat are :re going to d.o v,Tith the water from Snelling?
1~5l~
Nilsen ";Tr. Gronfield of the ?~ighvray Department assured me that these
drainage :problems would be taken care of in canr.ection vrith the
Snelling underpass at no additional cos+„ +„o ±he V"i~7_-~e.
Bonestroo ~'e plan to accentuate the gutter line on Crawford, bring the
water from Simpson to Crawford, to Arona to the Catch :,sin
and see how that .~~orks out.
Continuation ~tilsen moved that this Hearing be continued until 8 P. ":.
July l~.th. Second by Utecht. A vote -eras taken as follows:
Nilsen, Aye; Utecht, Aye; Shavor, Aye; Coppini, Aye. Va"~rken-
tier, Nay.
Shavor Are you going to do something about the x~ot holes at Crawford
and Arona?
?3onestroo Yes.
Shavor Is the grade from Larrienteur towards the a~ley such-that you l
could not make that water drain to the present catch basin?
Bonestroa 'ate wondered about running a grade from Larpenteur to t'°e alley,
but it won't v:ork out.
1'~a.rkentien How much v~rill that cost?
Bonestroo About 3 to ~ hundred. dollars.
~'4arkentien Could we use the same method on Albert?
Bonestroo No.
GaTalker .,ua~
There are a number ofrhere who are not so much ox~posed to the
drainage but we wonder about the legality of the assessment due
to the fact that, there are a number of us included who are not
benefited.
Friel If the Council makes the determination that all .those r~eonle are
benefited, they can be assessed, but they have a right to anneal.
VTalker Those of us who have no water problem are not going to be benefited.
Nilsen Now is the time we should have the water study read. at the last
storm sewer hearing. Everyone who builr'._s a house or puts in a
hard surfaced driveway adds to the water problem by decreasing
the natural absorption.
Hayes Do I understand that more will be done before the next hearing?
Bonestroo Z~te will attempt to move the surface water by grading.
Hayes Vlho pays the '?00.00? Is that on the General tax rolls?
Bonestroo I guess that's right, `
Vdalker Could the Council place the whole thing on the General Tax Rolls?
Nilsen Yes, but we might run into considerable objection from people
who have already paid to correct their ovm drainage problems. ,
4Ye have many drainage problems -- some of them much more costly
to correct than this particular one.
Schmidt Does what you now propose to do involve any assessment?
- No answer, 1455
- Yr'TATE??°?AZN At this point, the H°~~~-^ing was held on the z~ronosed improvement of
I'.4PR~VE`?ENT Snelling, "~sbury, Arona, Simpson, Pascal, Holton, Albert, Roselawn
and RuF~l=~s Av-::Hues by watermain extension as followsa
1. East side of Snelling Avenue from Ruggles to Roselawn.
2. Asbury .Avenue from Ruggles to Roselawn.
3. Arona Avenue from Ruggles to Roselawn.
4. Simpson Avenue from Ruggles to Roselawn.
- 5. Pascal Avenue from Ruggles to Roselawn.
6. Holton Avenue from Garden to Roselawn.
7. Albert from Ruggles to Roselawn.
8. Roselawn from Snelling to Albert.
' 9. Ruggles Avenue from Holton to Albert.
at an estimated cost of 576,000.00.
?.4ayor Nilsen read copies of Notices as published and posted,
and affidavits of posting and publishing.
Nilsen Over the gears, the Falcon Heights Village Council has urged the
City of St. Paul to extend v:ater to Falcon Heights but you are all
aware of the problems the City of St. Paul has had with it's own
water supply; and it vrasn't until April of 1959 that Leonard
Thompson, manager of the St. Paul ltiater Department, The St. Paul
Council and the Board of ','ater Commissioners granted n~rmission to
extend water to Roselawn East and Vest of Snelling in the Village
of Falcon Heights. Since that time, we have installed the watermain
on Larnenteur ti',est almost to Cleveland. j''~e have been riven permission
to extend water Hart way uA Tatum, Fairview and Fry Streets.
Ut~e were recently alerted to the drop in the water level, and the
number of wells which have gone dry, and the great number expected
to dry up in the ",2etropolitan area this year and in the near future.
Vr'e planned a Hearing on June 29th, but the situation became more
critical in our own Village so we set the Hearing for tonight.
ti"de recently had a petition from almost 100 of the people on Pascal
from Ruggles to Roselawn requesting that watermain be run along their
street.
One of the problems vre have to lace is the problem of water.
Statistics point out that 6It/ of the population in this P~etropolitan
Area is served by ",ginneavolis or St. Paul. Zt is becoming increasingly
difficult. 1'~e felt it was our duty to bring this matter to your
a++.,ention and. that is why we called the meeting for tonight.
Utecht Normally, we do not proceed on the basis we are proceeding on
tonight. Vde started out with a petition for one street, but when
we found out how much well trouble there was in the Village, we
started the`proceedings to cover the area as listed in the
notices published, Hosted and. mailed to about 100 homes. 4Ye can
1.56
always reduce what we started with, but we could not start
with the petition we had and then enlarge it. V.re donut ~^rant to
bush this down your throats and the amount of work can be reduced.
~onestroo We have had many inquiries from people in the area who have
recently found their wells are drying up and it is rather costly
to repair these wells. An individual well costs at least X17.50.00.
The wells in the Vilest part of the Village cost a minimum of that,
and some more. i:2aybe some of the wells could be sunk deeper
but we have no assurance that they will remain satisfactory
very long. The cost of dropping the well, in many cases, will
almost pay the cost of running the water line past the individual's
property. There is also the matter of polution.
St. Paulus water is softened, chlorinated, and, I think, flourin-
ated. The minimum charge per quarter is X1.80 plus 30¢ for
each 100 cubic feet of water used. Your water bill will probably
run about "2.25 per month, If you compare the cost of the elec-
tricity to pump this same amount of water, you will find this
breaks even. I am not sure the fire insurance rate will be
reduced, but if you have a hydrant on your corners you know you
will have all the water you will need.
I do know thaw the sale of a home in the Village hinged upon
whether the well was satisfactory or not satisfactory. It was
found unsatisfactory and the prospective purchaser couldn't pro-
cure financing. If we get public water to this location, the
sale will go through. Where there is community water and sewer,
a sale is completed in about 1/3 the time. Houses with ~vater
and sewer sell for about 10~ more than those without.
In the survey we made out as shown in this letter (a prepared
letter wa.s handed to each person attending at the beginning of
the meeting, a cony of ti^rhich is filed under "ltiater'~) we estimated
the cost at X8.25 per front foot. tiVe think we are a little high
but we intend to replace all the sod and return the streets to
their original condition. 4ae intend to run the tivater to each
property line if the project go~,~s through. V'te are required by
the City of St. Paul to put in a 1" eonper line, and a curb box.
The price of the tubing will depend on volume purchased two to
two and. a quarter a foot, Then there is a meter which will cost
about ?30.00 for each home. We have revised our estimate to
X7.00 afoot making the cost of a 75~ lot about `525.00. Over
a 20 ,year period, your cost per year is going to be ~l~2.00 per
ye~~r with interest.
Cale Libby What assessment will be made for properties within this area
which are already served by City V~ater?
Bonestroo Do you live North of Ruggles?
Libby All of us adjacent to Ruggles on the North are connected to
City Vlater.
Nilsen Who permitted the connection?
1
1
1
Libby The City. V~'e paid a fee to Ke7_ler who had paid the City. Vte
paid a share of the cost of the main and for the connection.
Nilsen Do you recall what, the cost was?
Bibby About three or four hundred dollars.
157
Shavor The Falcon Heights Commercial Club paid for that and the charge
was around :200.00 as I recall it, and they were reimbursed to
that extent.
Shavor Is there anyone on Ruggles who isn't connected?
Libby Not that I know of.
Shavor Imhoff wanted to ±ap in kitty-corner but St. Paul wouldn't permit
it. Those adjacent to xuggles were permitted to connect.
Friel That property can't possibly be benefited by this improvement.
If it cannot be benefited, it cannot be assessed.
Shavor How many houses are involved?
Libbv 7 or 8.
l~Iarkentien What is your frontage?
Libby Three are 125' and the others are 80' or something like that.
7 or 8 houses at an average of 100'. 1 house on Snelling Drive.
ti"here vrill this extension tie in?
Bonestroo On Rugp~les.
Libby Isn't that a b" line?
Bonestroo Yes.
V~eatherston 'dle have trouble with pressure now, and have to wait for water
closets to fill up.
Bonestroo titre are aware of the pressure problem you have, but we don't think
it justifies a bigger line. The fact that we are looping will give
us the equivalent of an 8" line.
lydeatherston Ruggles is 6"
Bonestroo The corrections that are going to have to be made will have to be
made by St. Paul.
~deatherston Shouldn't they be made before the. system is over taxed?
Bonestroo The correction has to come from some place else.
ti`Teatherston b'te ran a 1-1/2" service to assure a sufficient supply of water.
u'Ve have a very short service - about 15'. Even then we have to
_ wait to fill the water closet on the second floor. It is going to
affect the c~ressure in the whole of Falcon Heights.
Shavor How long since you had this trouble?
Weatherston This last year.
Shavor That condition was subposed to have been corrected by a tie-in
between Pascal and Crawford from there to Larpenteur. They also
1l~58
put a 2!~" line on Larpenteur going south into the Snelling
system.
Bonestroo St. Paul is going to be inv,~,sti .^~at,ing this soon.
Shavor Don't you think St. Paul's program could be completed before
we have very many connections out here?
Bonestroo Ve feel this is not a normal pressure but in talking to the
St. Paul Engineers, they feel it is go~i.ng to get better. I
don't know exactly what they are going to do. They are of the
opinion that the work they did the last two years should have
helped considerably. I know they are making an investigation.
I would like to check to see if all the gate valves are open.
The way St. Paul talks, pressures should have come up 10# which
is a tremendous increase.
Libby There should be something to substantiate this,
Bonestroo Vv`hat vre are doing is the way it should be done, The problem is
not here. It is somewhere else.
Libby There's not much sense in putting in additional lines if we
don't have sufficient pressure. There's no sense in buying a
horse if you haven't got oats to feed it.
Nilsen St. Paul feels they will equip themselves to take care of all ,
of Ramsey County, and it is only right that the water should
come from the Central Cities. I think they ''re ~~reparing them-
selves, looking into the future, and we think the fact that
they are granting permission to extend the lines indicates that
they feel they will be able to serve them properly.
Sx~aulding ~~?y pump went out about three years ago. I investigated running
the service up to serve my property and was advised the main to
serve that would cos+ about ?500.00. I talked to the wa±,er de-
partment. They were avrare of the -pressure roblem and they
said they didn't think it was practical, the pressure was only
about 20f# per square inch on Ruggles.
Bonestroo They say it is well up around 30j# now.
Spaulding What is the size running up each street.
Bonestroo 8" up Snelling and 6" on the others. "iirro 6" loops are equivalent
to an 8" line.
Spaulding You speak about looping, ii,here?
Bonestroo Along Roselawn.
Spaulding St. Paul suggested a water tank. I think vre should get all the
costs before we go into this matter,
3onestroo There was no discussion of a tank Rast of Snelling. There was
some discussion of a tank V~test of Snelling. They have a i. aster
Study. I don't knotiar just hovti~ they plan to carry it out. As
each loop is brought around, you are getting pressure correction.
You don't do this all at one time because you can't afford it.
159
You run in your loop line t'~3here they ~~,e doing to make the
loop, I don't know.
Vleatherston Isn't con"sumption greater than they anticipated and aren't they
planning restrictions.
Utecht ~"ie found that, contrary to vrhat we thought was going to happen,
the pressure improved all the way along the line.
Bonestroo No loop carries more than 16 connections.
'.`+eatherston pow many sixteens are going back into the 6"
Bonestroo There are six - 6" lines and one - 8" going into t~is area.
Vteatherston In other ~.-rords, there a ~e 100 additional services from one 61t pitie?
Bonestroo Not one h". Six 5s and one 8". There is a 20"' and a 2)~" on
Larnenteur.
Len Larsen You ~j:~•e not talking about a loop system. You are talking about
1897 '~Io. Albert a grid system. Lach street is a loop but Hart of a gridded system.
The thing I object to is your 24~` pressure. Ind hate to be
standing :t the end of afire hose waiting for •rrater.
Shavor You're class 7 up there now. You won't get any better rate if
you. have a 2U" main in front of your home.
Larson They vron't rive us anything additional ~~rith a 20# pressure. If
you put an 8" line North on Snelling and an 8" on Roselawn, you
have to make some sort of arrange;~ent, to produce enough vrater to
fill that area. By profession, I am a fire engineer. I would
like to see afire hydrant on my corner out we have to get enough
water in those mains so we can have enough at all times. 6ahen
you lay watermains, you have a friction loss. 20~ isn't any where
near enough. ~°~ith 30# you are lucky if you can het it to the
second tory.
Rob Steiner Can we have a simple sketch showing how the lines are going in?
Bonestroo Actually on P.uggles there is a_ line that comes to Simpson.
~'~e p_lan to hook up Holton at Garden and carry it over Roselawn
to Pascal. There is an 8" on Snelling. Loon
from Asbury to
_
Arona on Roselawn and Simpson to Pascal.
Steiner tisthat is the pressure on Larpenteur?
Bonestroo The uressure on the?~`~est side of Snelling is 37 to 38# at Larpen-
teur and. Snelling. The low is 26#. stay out on the far end,
!wring the peak draw off period, it drops to l~r~.
Vdea+.,herston liouldn't we be farther ahead to complete the grid on Roselawn
Bonestroo and throu~-h the walkway?
I don't know whether vre could get through the ~,val'~cway construction-
vrise.
~l;eatherston
`irhy note we o~rrn it?
1I~60
,arson You a ~e going to have Sheldon StrE;et through between Al'oert
and Hamline soon. I don't think much of relying on tha± tank
truck for Fire protection. ?0~ of bressure isn't, enough either.
B. Armstrong V~'here is the actual reservoir? male Street?
Nilsen Isn't there talk that they once considered abandoning the Dale
Street Reservoir?
Larson That is the one they had to abandon because of algea.
Armstrong ~;Je would have the same situation as Highland Park.
Utecht They have water up there.
Armstrong They have been fighting it for three or four years.
Nilsen They have corrected that situation and improved our vrater
pressure ti"pest of Snelling by the installation of electric pumps.
Larson I think we would be very short sighted not to complete the
grid in the North section. If you fail to do that, and the
City does run a line out Hamline, we won't be able to benefit
from it. As long as vre have paid for a grid system, why
shouldn't we have the same standards as the rest of the Village.
Bonestroo Actually=, a certain amount of vrater costs .are generally paid
from general revenue. V:~e have always set up a sizable payment
from revenue. Vue don't ha-„e that opportunity here -- at
least not at tiresent, and I feel there would be a certain amount
of over-taxation if the grid were carried through. I could show
you that this, as presently planned, is the same as an 8" going
out. If vre were to complete the grid, I would feel that a
portion of the cost should come from revenue. I feel the system
as planned is certainly an adequate water system. Gridding
isn't a corrective measure. I don't see the merit of it. The
corrective measures are going to have to be made by St. ?aul.
V~arkentien If we don't have enough water, can vre force the City of St.
Paul to provide pressure;
Bonestroo The water is there. As I recall, the pressure is 34tt`. St. Paul
told us they thought they could hold, the 30,~~ static and. that they
thought it would improve, but I must confess I don't know what
imx~rovements they have under contract. I do know that St. Paul
is willing to sunoly us vrith water, and, as the supplier, they
should make improvements as necessary. There a.re always certain
things we should get out of revenue.
How far has the water table dropped in Falcon Heights?
Bonestroo According to Dr. Schwartz, 20 to 30'. We :ire in a dish, and the
outer fringes felt the terrific drop last year. Approximately
1000 •nrells in ':~aplewood dried up last year. They were all drift
wells about 85 to 90' so all they could do was drop the wells
deeper.
Hoer long would you say it would be before we have a serious
condition in this area?
1.61
1
1
1
Bonestroo 'w"de now have it. Last Fall some of them dried up in Roseville,
and, this su~?~ar, in Falcon Heights. 13 dried up in a year.
°~ost of the yells in this area are relatively shallow - not
over 100'.
How much deeper would they have to go to get into the next strata?
Bonestroo Platville is next. F. H. A. a.nc] the Department of Health frown
on sinking yells into the Platville because of contamination.
It became quite an issue in ti;hite Bear Township. Udell drillers
foizh.d'they could get water there and the plumbers put in septic
tanks and dry wells on top of this and the sewage was circulating
pretty fast. Nobody died, but this is the type of thing we are
quite concerned with.
~ How far does contamination travel?
Bonestroo They find they can trace a dye 7 or 8 miles. It isn't considered
safe. If you were smart, you would want to push down through
the Platville to the St. Peter and there isn't much ~r.~ater there.
Community wells are down in the Jordon about 500'. You would
have to go through about 15' of rock to reach the St. Peter and
this costs money.
B. N. Henrick- '"_y well at 1887 Arona is going dry. b"ie would like to know
son vrhen mains would be available throug~iout this area.
Nilsen It seems like we are going to have a repetition of these problems.
b`Te have already had four or five and the question is are we going
to continue to spend four or five hundred dollars here and there
on wells. St. Paul has problems and even if we don't have much
pressure, we can still have water.
Utecht If the Council votes to oroceed, you can have water in 6 to 8
weeks.
?~?rs. Hendrix, 'sue can't run the tivater more than half an hour before we run out of
1897 Holton water. I am all for watermains. 1`ie think our well is about 120'.
Vde have had several well men and. they suggest we dig a new well
in the front yard.
Art Newman ~dhen you speak about the Highland area, I am thoroughly familiar
with that and I know what the restrictions are. If I were to
invest in watermains, I would-like to know whether the same
restrictions would apply.
015en ?rie have the same restrictions.
?Jewman It seems to me that they are a little premature when they allow
people to connect when they can't take care of what they already
have.
Utecht They ran into three dry su~^mers. You can use your well for
sprinkling.
Newman Can you use your well?
Utecht You can use it for sprinkling, but if it is hooked up to drain
into the sewer, you will have to pay double sewer rental.
1162
Nilsen You can use the well as long as you don't return the water
to the sewer system.
Larson
I am highly in favor of +.,he -;°eater system, I think we have a
reasonable pressure, but I think we will be uenny-wise and n_ound-
foolish if we don't complete that grid. The more the water cir-
culates, the better it is. If we can eventually hook up to
Hamline, I can't see why we would not be able to complete the
grid. It would cost about ~100,00.more.
Utecht Can ti"re add the grid and go through on the notice as published?
Friel Yes, but then you can't assess anybody outside of the area
already specified. You can aryd a pipe length and add the cost
to the people who have already been notified.
Weatherston V~then were the pressures taken? Vdhen the air conditioning goes
on, the entire water system is affected. --
Bonestroo That is what the City of St. Paul is going to curtail.
Weatherston If the City of St. Paul will assure us necessary pressure, I
think we should go ahead immediately. If St. Paul acts to cur-
tail water used in air conditioning, I think we should go ahead
at once. Otherwise not, or the people will just have an 11
month water system.
Shavor Let's not exaggerate. Yee expect a sprinkling ban.
Utecht Don't you think it is better to face a little problem once in
a while than to have these people go without water all year?
~"deatherston I think you should go to the City Fathers and tell them we
are spending a lot of money and we want the assurance that we
will have sufficient bressure.
Nilsen Vde have a plan to cut off Vtest of Snelling. Thompson is
recommending that VO"est of Snelling be supplied from the :t.
Anthony Tank at '~oyt and Cleveland. If they visualize serving
all of Ramsey County, it is only logical that they will have to
expand their facilities and there is the possibility of their
running a large line down Hamline to serve Roseville.
Utecht I would like to see an expression by a show of hands. There
were 20 hands raised in favor of going ahead at once. Four
opposed.
Nc-swman I would rather buy a little better system.
Bonestroo The problem doesn't exist out here. It exists in the large trunk
system. V~Ihen you have a problem on a 21~" line, you can't correct
it on a 6". This is what they are planning to correct. The
distribution itself is what should be corrected. If the dis-
tribution is going to be corrected, the entire line will be
imbroved.
Bonestroo Vie are only a half mile from a 2!~" main.
163
parson Have you ever stood on the end of a.1~" dead end? Remember
you need quantity as yell as pressure. I think you should
have an 8" going around the loop. Your pressure loss is
included with the amount of water that is delivered. I
think to grid it would be workable.
Armstrong Ha s anybody checked their pumps? I find that by taking 10
gallons out and by pumping it back, I can pump plenty of water.
Shavor What's the point?
Armstrong Did anybody check their pumps to see what they can pump?
Shavor Vdhat if the water drODS 3' and you start pumping air?
Schmidt, 1907 A month ago we brought in a petition with signatures of 95~
No. Pascal of the people in our black. 1'ie have to think of the ones who
are out of water. At that z~articular time, it was said the
lady on the corner would have water about the first of August.
Smith, 1i~36 Our well was put down 1l~6' deep, 120' to the water. Vde haven't
Roselawn had a ?pit of trouble. nr4y we1.1 man says he thinks most of the
trouble is because wells aren't deep enough.
Nilsen There is also the matter of contamination.
Smith Vde have about three who want water. Most of them are against
it. tide just got through paying a sewer assessment and our
streets are in pretty good shape. It looks like a peculiar
process to me.
Nilsen I don't think so.
? How much pressure will it take to brim? it up to the second floor?
Bonestroo About 30# pressure should reach 70' in height. You probably
have about 12' there. You are talking about 5# to get up to the
second floor.
? Will water be put in the boulevard or the road?
Donestroo The boulevards. VJe will have to cross some streets. There is
very little street work involved. We vrill jack service connections
to avoid cutting up the black top. Vae plan to go up the Vtest side.
tJtecht In view of the preponderance of people in favor of installing the
water mains, I move the following resolutions
RESOLUTION ORDEP.ING ~':ATERTRAIN IMPROVE:^_E1TT AND DIRECTING PREPARATION
OF FINAL PLAAIS AND SPECIFICATIONS:
YlHEREA5, after due notice of public hearing on the construction of
a watermain improvement far the following described area in `said
Village:
li~bl~
1. East side of Snelling avenue from Rugnles to Roselawn.
2. Asbury Avenue from Ru~~les to Roselawn.
3. Arona Avenue from Ru-~-les to Roselawn.
L. Simpson Avenue from Ruggles to Roselawn,
5. Pascal Avenue from Ruggles to Roselawn.
b. Holton Avenue from Garden to Roselawn.
7. Albert from Ruggles to Roselawn.
8. Roselawn Avenue from Snelling to Albert.
9. Ruggles Avenue from Holton to Albert.
A hearing on said improvement in accordance with the notice
duly given was duly held on June ?_lst, 1960, and the Council
has heard all persons desiring to be heard on the matter and
has fully considered the same,
NOW 'rHERErORE, BE IT RESOLVED by the Village Council of the
Village of Falcon Heights, t~~innesota, as followss
1. That it is advisable, expedient and necessary that the
Village of Falcon Heights construct said watermain improvement
as described in the notice of hearing thereon and orders the
same to be made.
2. Otto 3onestroo KC Associates, Inc. are hereby designated
engineers for this improvement and are directed to prepare
final plans and specifications for the making of said improve-
ment.
The motion for the adoption of the foregoing resolution was
duly seconded by member y~arkentien and upon a vote being
taken thereon, the following voted in favor thereof:
Harold Nilsen, 'dJillis ~'iarkentien, Paul Coppini, V~~illiam R.
Utecht, and George Shavor,
V~hereupon said. resolution was declared duly passed and a~~opted.
~ What about the people who want to build on Sheldon? i'~ill they
be assessed. on general taxes if they decide to put it in?
Bonestroo They v~rill have to pay for it on an assessment basis.
? How long should it take to have the job completed?
Bon~stroo Once we get the plans and specs prepared, vre have to advertise
at least once, and then wait ten days for bids. Some time
between now and the middle of next week, we will have a special
meeting so we can approve the plans and set a time for receiving
bids. As soon as the bids are received, the Council can award
the bids and make the improvement. Pascal St. will be done first.
Adjournment On motion, the meeting adjourned at 010:15 P. °ti/,.~.
Signed 11b1~ /~,~~0,1" „'
Clerk.
Apnr ove ~'
?dayor.
1
1
1