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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPCMin_82Feb1_Public Hearing• MINUTES PLANNING COMA4ISSION MEETING~PUBLIC HEARING FEBRUARY 1, 1982 The Planning Commission/Public Hearing was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Al Stefanson. Stefanson, Olson, Wallin, Blomberg, Nilsen, ~~ialdo, Bourquin, Labalestra PRESENT and Mead. Also present were Council Liaison Larson, Attorney Swanson, Engineer Lemberg and Planner Dale. None . Attorney Swanson informed those in attendance that the four items necessary for completion of the PUD request had been received (filing of the preliminary plat, drawing on a scale of 1" to 30", agreements and covenants governing use and a schedule of estimated progress). Attorney Swanson recommended that the Planning Commission proceed with the hearing. Harold Vaestin of Harold Westin and Associates, the engineering and architectural firm developing plans for the development, addressed the traffic d nd drainage problems. He stated that the drainage system planned will accomodate two 100 year storms two days apart and that the drainage from Tatum Street will run into the project holding ponds providing better drainage for the Tatum residences. The proposed density within the area to be developed would be 9.25 overall and that the traffic on Tatum and through Falcon ti;ioods would be the same as if the area was developed R-1 as most of the traffic would go to the south to Larpenteur. The developers would prefer to have access to Cleveland if the land can be obtained from the University. He explained that the estimated price of the units would be X100,000 and up and that the citizens concern that the units would be purchased and rented to students would be very unlikely at that price. He also stated that many changes have been made in -the plans to reduce the impact on the neighborhood. Planner Carl Dale approved of the changes presented in the new plans, such as single family homes along the area abutting Falcon Woods, substituting condos for townhouses in the southeastern area, and adding more open space and ponding. Mr. Dale stated the present R-1 and B-lA zoning would alloy a more dense project than the one being considered, whereas the PUD would allow City control. Mr. Dale presented recommended changes in the condominium by-laws and declar- ation provided by the developer and a suggested "Planned Unit De- velopment Permit". He would prefer the road to Cleveland but did not feel the other routes would be a detriment to the community. ABSEPdT HAROLD Vi!ESTIN CARL DALE CITY PLANNER Engineer Lemberg read his comments after reviewing the most recent BRAD LEMBFRG plans and stated he felt the plan appears feasible and would provide CITY ENGINEER a well-planned addition to Falcon Heights. He stated the storm water ponding system will require additional design of more facilities before MINUTES PLANNIA?G CO~'~~ISSION T~IEETING~PUBLIC HEARING FEBRUARY 1, 1982 PAGE 2 • • he would recommend final approval of the system (addition of underground percolation chambers and surface skimming structures). Engineer Lemberg recommended that the Planning Commission and City Council apr~rove the plan and take steps to the rezoning to PUD. Larry Stowe, 1951 Autumn, representing the neighborhood task force, LARRY STOWS questioned the propriety of the submission of materials by the 1951 AUTUMN developer such as not submitting information until the deadline which does not allow time for a thorough study. He commented on the number of times plans have been changed, the large number of persons who would reside in the development, concerns over increased traffic, the hazard of ponding water and the possibility that the eight inch sewer on Larpenteur would not be sufficient. Based on the plan and density, Pdr. Store requested that the Planning Commission reject this proposal. He stated that the group recognized that development is necessary and would be willing to discuss any future plans. Mark Ascerno, 1871 Tatum, stated he objected to the material being P~~~ARK ASCERNO submitted late and lacking part of the information, thus making it 1871 TATUM impossible for residents to scrutinize the plans. He also commented on American Shelter shifting plans at the last minute. Mr. Westin replied that no fundamental change was made, only the HAROLD WESTIN drainage system to accomodate a 100 year storm, which required additional ponding. Mr. Ascerno also stressed that the citizens are not objecting to develop- MARK ASCERNO ment but to this specific plan. He felt the elan was conceptual in that all depends on access to Tatum Street and no negotiations have taken place to acquire the necessary land for street purposes. He also stated that the residents of Tatum object to the height of the proposed buildings and feel there should be equitable buffering on all sides. On the basis of these objections, Mr. Ascerno requested that the rezoning be denied. Walter Northrup, 1912 Summer, stated he felt there was no citizen benefit in the project other than the increasing tax base. His expressed concern over the possibility that the developer would be unable to find purchasers with the cost of the units, plus an annual tax of ~2, 500 to X3,700 per unit per year (based on the proposed tax increase computed by Clerk Administrator Barnes). Mr. Northrup also was concerned that American Shelter has not provided financial information as requested, and had done some research into the operation. He found that American Shelter is located at 900 Sandhurst, Roseville, MN, a private home; the corporation was formed in April, 1980; and has two employees including Don Swendra. Mr. Northrup was of the opinion that before any plan is approved, more information is needed about the developer. Don Hamilton, Facilities Supervisor for Hewlett-Packard, expressed that the firms concerns are as follows: (1) the extension of Prior will be WALTER NORTHRUF 19lt2 SUMi~9ER DON HAMILTON HEV'dLETT- PACKARD MINUTES PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING/PUBLIC HEARING FEBRtJARY 1, 1982 PAGE 3 very close to their existing driveway, (2) in the extension of Prior they do not want runoff water on Hewlett-Packard property, and (3) the firm plans expansion in 1982 to approximately 300 employees which might have an effect on the proposed plan. Gus Hard, 1937 Autumn, was concerned about the destruction of existing GUS HARD vegetative cover and felt the plan completely disregarded existing 1937 AUTUMN vegetation. Mr. Hard stated he would like a more park like appearance, a place to walk, not go through high density buildings, water holes and parking lots. Mark Ascerno asked Carl Dale if, since he felt the buffer of single family dwellings on the north was a good idea, would that not also be a good ASCERNO/ buffer for the area on the east. Mr. Dale replied that he felt the DALE addition of single family homes was an improvement but not essential. The bui'fering could be done with plantings and that the appearance of the townhouses on the east v~ould have an appearance similar to the dwellings on Tatum. Mr. Dals said he would prefer more green space as provided with the additional ponding area rather. than more single family homes. Fran A-'razier, 1982 Howell, commented that, in her opinion, American Shelter is poorly organized and incompetent and ghat the City should not go with FRAN FRAZIER the first offer. 1982 HOWELL • Louise Rosendahl, 1953 Summer, inquired as to whether the developer LOUISE has any examples of other developments. Harold Westin replied that his ROSENDAHL firm has projects in Los Angeles, Omaha, Peoria and St. Paul and would 1953 SUMMER be happy to provide professional resumes of key persons. Jim Bourquin stated he would like examples of American Shelter DON St1~ENDRA developments. Don Swendra of American Shelter replied that he has constructed many single family dwellings (approximately 150) plus a condominium located at 16l~0 Charlton in West St. Paul. Chairman Stefanson suggested that Mr. Swendra provide a financial RE~'UEST FOR statement to the City Attorney if they are hesitant to provide the FINANCIAL inf ormation to the general public. He explained that a financial STATEMENT statement is not required by Ordinance 138, however, he felt it would FROM be to Mr. Swendra's benefit to provide one. AMERICAN SHELTER Mr. Swendra stated that a reference from the bank had been presented to the Clerk Administrator which he felt should be sufficient at this time. He also stated that American Shelter might not be the developer that the potential exists that they might not be able to get financing and could not build. John Labalestra stated he could not approve the plans and the PUD with- JOHN out a letter of credit from the bank and he, personally, would like a LABALESTRA financial report presented t o the City Attorney. He said he was not pleased with the plan as presented and had concerns regarding (1) sewer capacity, (2) prefers an exit to Cleveland and is against any traffic to Tatum, (3) need for traffic lights at Prior and Larpenteur, and (1~) drainage, ponding would be a danger to children. He added he felt the plan had improved 100 percent since the first presentation. MINUTES PLANNING COMMISSION ft+~ETING~PUBLIC HF'ARING FEBRUARY 1, 1982 PAGE !~ Robert Blomberg stressed that Carl Dale's recommendations should be included in the leases. Jim Bourquin stated that a financial statement may not be required but the Planning Commission would be remiss if they did not understand the financial backing. He also felt that sewer, roads, etc. should be done at one time, cost estimates provided, and who will provide the funds for improvements. In reply to an inquiry by Ms. Bourquin, Don Swendra stated that numbers change rapidly and at the final plan approval all financial information would be provided. Erma Olson stressed that the subject being considered is the PUD zoning not approval of building permits or final plans. She also reminded those in attendance that the City Attorney, in his opening comments, assured that the applicants have met the requirements of the ordinance, and, if so, the Planning Commission is required to consider the zoning request. American Shelter was encouraged to apply for the PUD so the City would have control over development of the area. John Labalestra stated that according to Section 17.6, the Commission would not only be approving the rezoning but the preliminary plans and he objected t o the plan as presented. JIM BOUR~UIN ERMA OLSON JOHN LABALESTRA Erma Olson stated she had the same concerns but those should be dealt ERMA OLSON with later. She felt the development of housing is important as it would • be in conjunction with the City's comprehensive Plan, which addressed additional housing in the City and she was of the opinion that additional housing is most important in the metropolitan area. Frank Irving, 1745 Tatum, objected to the rezoning, as he was assured FRANK IRVING when he purchased his home that the adjoining property would not be 1715 TATUM rezoned but would remain R-l. He was in favor of development but not the proposed condo townhouse project. Don Mead expressed concern regarding water, and road access, since no DON MEAD matter what kind of development is approved, there will be additional traffic. He inquired as to who would pay for any future streets, sewers, etc. if there is additional development. Thomas Goodman, Attorney for American Shelter, pointed out the THOMAS GOODMAN following: (1) finance is not an issue, technically, as development ATTORNEY FOR is done with others' money (financing) and it is necessary to first AMERICAN obtain the right to develop the property, then arrange financing, SHELTER (2) the PUD Ordinance requires bonding for security, improvements are assessed against the property, (3) the City is paying a respected City Planner who says it is a good plan and an Engineer who has been with the City many years recommends approval of the plan, (l~) the project will not use all the sewer capacity, and (5) the procedure (last minute plans, etc.), how important is that compared to the overall picture. Erma Olson agreed that the rezoning is important to obtain financing. ERMA OLS0P1 Attorney Goodman reiterated you cannot get financing until the rezoning is approved. MINUTES PLANNING COMMISSION MEFTING~PUBLIC HEARING FEBRUARY 1, 1982 PAGE 5 • Jack Anderson, Traffic Engineer, explained the proposed traffic offsets at intersections. He did not see any problem with traffic at Larpenteur and Prior. Al Stefanson compared traffic counts on Garden Avenue (near his home) to Tatum, the traffic on Garden being considerably more than that on Tatum which he felt did not cause a problem for those in his neighborhood. JACK ANDERSON TRAFFIC ENGINEER John Kiel, 1812 Tatum, inquired as to whether or not American Shelter JOHN. KIEL had, in good faith, approached the University for a street to Cleveland 182 TATUM and was assured that the Mayor, Councilmember Eggert and the Clerk Administrator had meet with representatives of the University and that the matter was being presented to the Board of Regents. Jerry ~"~allin asked PJ[r. Stowe if he felt the citizens group was deprived in that they did not have ten days to review the plan and if they would like additional time. ~'tr. Stowe replied in the affirmative. Nir. Zti'allin felt the group should have that opportunity, even though, he personally, approved of the plan. He suggested the matter be tabled until the residents have an opportunity to check the matter further. Harold Nilsen stated, that in reading Ordinance #138, he understands Section 17.6 to require the plan to be approved first, then the re- • zoning would be considered. In view of this information, he felt the Public Hearing is not in order, and the Commission should be considering the plan, approve, deny, or changes if information is not adequate. He was of the opinion that the meeting should be continued to a later date since they had put the "cart before the horse". Jerry Wallin was of the opinion that the information presented at this meeting is what the Commission should have had long ago and agreed with Mr. Nilsen. JERRY WALLIN HAROLD NILSEN Erma Olson moved that the Planning Commission approve the preliminary MOTION TO plans and grant the request to rezone to ?'UD from R-1 and B-lA as REZONE recommended by the Planner and City Engineer. The motion was seconded by Mary Waldo. John Labalestra stated he was in favor of the PUD but had many concerns, JOHN the developer should request participation by the residents to find out LABALESTRA what type of development they prefer, and the possibility that the sewer could be proven inadequate which could be costly to the community. He objected to the proposed plan. Engineer Lemberg explained that the sanitary sewer was designed for BRAD LEMBERG development of the area as it is presently zoned and the proposed development of this property would result in the same density as the MINUTES PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING~PUBLIC H.N~ARING FEBRUARY 1, 1982 PAGE 6 present zoning. Since the size of the sewer was based on the R-1 and B-lA zoning, it should be adequate for the proposed plan. If another piece of property is developed to a greater density, the property owner who precipitates this would be charged for any necessary increases. Don Mead agreed with the plan, but would like to see access to Cleveland and would not accept it without a re-designed street elan. Harold Nilsen agreed it was a good plan, but a few things need to be solved. He also felt the Cleveland Avenue matter should be settled. Harold b~destin reminded the group that there is an alternate plan prepared if the access to Cleveland is granted. Jim Bourquin inquired as to whether or not the City has any legal obligation to maintain the zoning of an area when persons have purchased abutting lots secure in the knowledge that the zoning was R-l. Attorney Swanson replied that zoning is a legislative matter at the discretion of the City Council. DON MEAD HAROLD NILSEN JIM BOUR~%UIN Al Stefanson stated he was in favor of the development and since both AL STEFANSON the Engineer and Planner recommended approval, he would like to move ahead on the matter. He felt this development would be more desirable than R-1 and apartments on the B-lA, which would be allowed under the present zoning. • Jim Bourquin cited single family residences which have been constructed JIM BOURC'UIN in Arden Hills providing a high quality of life without high density housing. He felt alternatives should be considered and that the decision should be made by the people not the Planning Commission. He stated he could not vote for the PUD. Erma Olson again reminded the group that the City Comprehensive Plan addresses housing in that area. Following the discussion, the following voted in favor of the f ore- going motion: Stefanson and Olson, and the following voted against the same: Bourquin, Blomberg, Nilsen, Labalestra, '~i1allin, Mead and Waldo. Motion defeated. Jerry Wallin suggested the hearing be continued to a later date to allow all to have an opportunity to review the matter. Attorney Swanson inf ormed that Attorney Kenefick had approved the concept of the PUD in December, and that the Commission now has three alternatives, (1) a motion to disapprove, (2) a motion to approve subject to changes, or (3) continue the hearing. Attorney Goodman requested that the Commission disapprove the matter and give reason. Jerry Wallin felt that if any changes are made in the plans those plans should be presented for review ten days before a meeting or hearing. George Plant, 1861 Moore, inf ormed that he had suggested the idea MOTION TO APPROVE PLAN AND PUD DEFEATED DISCUSSION ON HOW TO PROCEED GEORGE PLANT 1861 MOORE • MTNUTES PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING/PUBLIC HEARING FEBRUARY 1, 1982 PAGE 7 . of single family homes along the north side and, perhaps, single family homes along the Tatum side would be preferred. He suggested that the condominiums might be constructed on the area next to the University land. Wallin moved, seconded by Bourquin that the hearing be continued to March 1, 1982 for the purpose of allowing the Task Force to review the plans. Upon a vote being taken, the following voted in favor thereof: Stefanson, Bourquin, Blomberg, Nilsen, Olson, V;~allin, Mead and ti'~aldo, and the following voted against the same: Labalestra. Motion carried. Mr. Westin indicated he would be willing to meet and discuss the matter with the residents concerned. He also~ated he would prefer that the planning Commission deny the matter and let the matter go to the Council. • The Commission discussed the problem of timing for the Council Public Hearing due to publication requirements, as they would like to have the hearing scheduled for early in March. Council- member Larson will present the matter to Council for consideration at the February 10, 1982 meeting. Jerry Wallin presented for the approval of the Planning Commission the annual report for the year 1981. Olson moved, seconded by Waldo, that the annual report be approved as presented. Motion carried unanimously. Olson moved, seconded by ~,~taldo, that the meeting be adjourned at 11:25 P.M. Motion carried unanimously. Following a short discussion, the Planning Commission scheduled a workshop meeting for February 16, 1982 at 7:00 f or further work the re-writing of the zoning ordinance. ,~ f ,~~? ~~L~ lz~~~zv Jerr~r V allin, Secretary . _,/ HEARING TO BE CONTINUED MARCH 1, 1982 TIMING OF COUNCIL HEARING DISCUSSED 1981 ANNUAL REPORT APPROVED WORKSHOP on MEETING SCHEDULED FOR 2/16/82 •