HomeMy WebLinkAboutPCMin_82Mar1_Public Hearing
MINUTES
PLAAINING COMMISSION MEETING~PLBLIC H'E'ARING
March 1, 1982
The Planning Commission~Public Hearing was called to order at 7:00 P.M.
by Chairman Al Stefanson.
Stefanson, Olson, Wallin, Blomberg, Nilsen, Th'aldo, Labalestra and Mead. PRESENT
Also present were Council Liaison Larson, Attorney Swanson, Engineer
Lemberg and Planner Dale.
ABSENT
Bourquin.
Harold Nilsen offered and John Labalestra seconded a motion for the adoption
of Resolution 82-2 as follows:
RESOLUTION 82-2 RESOLUTION
82-2
•
A RESOLUTION RECOPJI?uIENDING THAT THE CITY COUNCIL ACCEPT
THE PROPOSED PRELIMINARY STREET PLAN AS IDEI~TTIFIED BY
SHEET N0. P-5 DATED JANUARY 18, 1982, AS PREPARED BY
HAROLD J. WESTIN AND ASSOCIATES FOR THE AMERICAN SHELTER
CORPORATION WITH RESTRICTIONS AS INCLUDED IN THE
RESOLUTION
Jerry Wallin stated that he felt the motion was premature since there was JERRY WALLIN
no evidence at the public hearing that there would be a diminution of
public health, safety or the general welfare or any testimony supporting
a conclusion that there would be a diminution of property values or any
devasting affect on the surrounding neighborhood.
Harold Nilsen indicated that he went to the development in Arden Hills
known as Arden View Court for the purpose of checking the traffic
situation the morning of March 1. The traffic count on Nursery Hill
Lane beginning at 6:115 A.M. until 8:00 A.M. revealed llil vehicles
turning south, right turns, and !~8 vehicles turning north, left turns,
for a total of 189 vehicles out of 360 units with one exit on Hamline
Avenue. There is also an assumption that some residents car pool and 25
vehicles exited prior to 6:l~5 A.M. for a total of 2111 cars from 6:00 A.M.
to 8:00 A.M. in the morning.
Chairman Stefanson spoke in favor of the Resolution having given thought
to the traffic problem that would be created on Tatum Street or in
Falcon Woods. Therefore, if traffic would be directed westward toward
Cleveland or to Roselawn, it would be a more acceptable approach.
Stefanson also observed the development in Arden Hills and found that it
does have more units than is being proposed by American Shelter Corporation
with only one exit and one entrance.
HAROLD NILSEN
AL STEFANSON
John Labalestra directed his comments to the traffic that would result JOHN
LABALESTRA
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on Tatum Street. He feels that with winter driving conditions, Tatum
Street could not handle any more traffic exiting onto Larpenteur. If
there is an ingress egress t o Cleveland, it would be more favorable
for the project, and, therefore, he supports the Resolution.
Don Mead is in favor of the Resolution if the traffic situation is
resolved where there is no more traffic on Tatum Street.
Mary Waldo questions when the traffic light on Prior would be installed.
John Labalestra feels that since the Hewlett Packard development and
the future development of the PUD project, it would be forthcoming
within a short period.
Emma Olson pointed out that Larpenteur Manor has 1!~!~ units with only
one exit entrance and there does not seem to be a traffic problem onto
Larpenteur whereas the proposed PUD project has 200 units. Since the
Resolution brovides for an emergency exit and another possible exit,
she is in favor of the Resolution.
Following the discussion, the following voted in favor of the foregoing
motion: Olson, Nilsen, Blomberg, Labalestra, Stefanson, Mead and V4~aldo,
and voting against the same: Wallin. Motion carried to adopt the
Resolution.
Chairman Stefanson proceeded with the hearing advising the same foremat
would be followed as in previous public hearings. He also pointed out
• a change in the zoning--Ordinance #163 amended Ordinance #64, which
should have been zoned R-1 on the Hawkins-Hermes property. There is no
affect on the POD.
Harold Westin did not have any objection to the P-5 Plan or to the
Resolution, and will address questions asked after the Neighborhood
Task Force presentations.
Planner Carl Dale indicated that the safety factor of routing all the
traffic to Larpenteur is satisfactory provided in the plan that Prior
is left open only for emergency vehicles and that the easement also
state that it can be used also for a general emergency such as accidents
on Larpenteur~Prior, water pipes that might burst, utility work, etc. so
that the street could be opened for a couple of hours to accommodate the
neighborhood if regulated by the fire police department.
Engineer Lemberg referred to the in-debth study that was requested on
the utilities for the area under question. He has done a study of the
sanitary sewer all the way to St. Marys and has found that the capacity
of the existing sanitary sewer is more than adequate for the development.
A more detailed report is contained in his February 25, 1982 letter to
the Planning Commission. The waste water flows were examined and if the
system is properly designed with the necessary percolation vaults or
areas, the holding pond areas .and volumes are in proper retrospect with
the plan that was done in 1971 and with the recent updating. He strongly
DON MEAD
MARY 1NALD0
EMMA OLSON
AL STEFANSON
HAROLD WESTIN,
HAROLD WESTIN
AND ASSOC.
CARL DALE
CITY PLANNER
BRAD LEMBERG,
CITY ENGINEER
recommends that if the project were the proceed, that the water main on
-3-
• Cleveland Avenue be connected with the Falcon Woods system to strerghten
water coming from two directions. In summary, the utilities are such
that they can handle the future development. He also recommends that
the Planning Commission request a performance bond so the project is
completed as planned and carried out.
Larry Stowe, representing the Neighborhood Task Force, felt that the
Resolution as approved presented a sudden alteration to the plan. He
presented a petition with 13Lt signatures from the Falcon Heights
residents indicating that they urge that the application of American
Shelter Corporation to develop the Hawkins-Hermes parcel be rejected
for the following reasons: The average density of housing is too
high, the proposed street access is unacceptable, the drainage and
ponding of surface water is not properly addressed and there is
inadequate buffering and berming on the west side of Tatum Street.
The 1311 signatures represents 8!t people out of 87 households--one of
which was away and one of which would not sign. This represents 97
percent support in the Tatum Street~Falcon Woods area. He also
indicated the Neighborhood Task Force took a collection of funds for
the purpose of professional consultant fees incurred as a result of
presentations made. The response to the collection of funds was
between 85 to 90 percent. He urges that the Planning Commission reject
the proposal of American Shelter Corporation for this particular planned
unit development.
• Orlyn Miller, Wehrman Associates Planning Consultants, Golden Valley,
addressed three primary points: (1) the basic concept of a PUD and the
flexibility that it allows; (2) normal procedures and guidelines
controlling the flexibility under PUD emphasizing the city's responsibility
in the process; and (3) observations regarding the proposed development
itself. He pointed out that PUD is intended to encourage creative and
efficient development through a comprehensive planning approach. He
feels the PUD offers flexibility and real opportunity for development
both by the developer and from the communities' point of view; but, it
is not a license to ignore reasonable planning principles and good
design nor does it automatically imply density increases. The control
of the community should increase not decrease in planned unit development
because of the common good not only to the developer but to the community
served. He showed several slides indicating the PUD concept. He
reviewed the Falcon Heights PUD Ordinance and found it to be very
liberal. If density and flexibility bonuses are to be considered, the
PUD Ordinance should establish those guidelines. Most other municipalities
have tighter ordinances for PUD. He considers very questionable the
density increase as it was done in a very arbitrary manner. Therefore,
he feels a rationale should be developed for what types of density
increases should be provided, why, and what the relationship to the
existing development should be. As far as the Falcon Crest proposal
is concerned, certain elements of the design itself deserve additional
scrutiny. Specific items that should be addressed include circulation,
use relationship to existing development, recreational facilities, common
open space, drainage storm water retention, and landscaping and screening.
LARRY STOWE,
19511 AUTUMN
ORLYN MILLER,
UVEHRMAN
ASSOCIATES
PLANNING
CONSULTANTS
•
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John Bearden, Consulting Engineer, Comstock and Davis, addressed the
issue of water storage on the site. Storm water storage on the site
is a problem. A map showing high water (four acres) was presented and
he recommended t hat thevuster should not be spread out over such a large
area because of the maintenance required. Since the storage areas
are connected together, when one fills it will overflow into another.
When all storage areas are full, it will overflow onto the north/south
streets and drain southerly to Larpenteur Avenue. He feels this will
occur periodically. On the east boundary, the storage areas are abutted
against residential properties without buffer and buffering should be
considered in this area. The project is feasible; however, it is
recommended that the storage of dorm water runoff be concentrated into
smaller areas and that provisions be made so that water can slowly drain
away between rainfall events by percolation and other means. This will
minimize the problems with maintenance that will occur in the wet/dry
zone. Whatever areas that are used for ground surface water should be
in a drainage easement so that the city can come in if need be to police
this area and perform this maintenance service if for some reason the
homeowner's association does not complete the work.
John Sirney, Principal Member and Vice-President, Zuber Architects,
presented his information in slide format on community issues, PUD
issues, neighborhood capability, project design and energy efficient
design. The community issues are the broadening of the tax base,
population increase and adequate utilities to the proposed development
while the PUD issues encourage amore creative approach to the use of
a land. He refers to a 1961 Ordinance, Section 1.l~.6, Paragraph 3, stating
that the number of dwelling units for the entire site in the planned
development category shall not exceed the total number permitted under
the density control provisions for the district under v~ich the land is
located. As far as neighborhood capability, does the project jeopardize
the facilities of the park and should this proposed plan include
recreational facilities within the site? With regard to project design;
what is the hard data, what are the projections, and does the access to
Cleveland actually exist? There is too much density with lack of open
space, park areas, and recreational facilities. He is concerned with
the ponding areas i.e. fencing. The solar issue was addressed by
slides indicating how the condominuims would block the sun from the
houses on Tatum Street during different times of the year. Inc inclusion,
he feels the land. is very valuable and this should be weighed not only
monetarily. He is in favor of the PUD concept and that it will respond
not only to the landowner giving him a high return on his investment but
the community can also gain by getting parks and open space.
Gus Hard, 1937 Autumn, feels that there is a lack of dedication of the
land for park and recreational purposes and therefore, there is a lack
of the concept in general. It is the weakest aspect of the project as
a whole. Referring to concepts, he means what can the property be
used for and how can we best present and make that a useable functional
relationship as far as the community is concerned. He refers to Ean
McCard in putting together a design in that "There is no project until
JOHN BEARDEN,
ENGINEER,
COA~STOCK AND
DAVIS
JOHN SIRNEY,
VICE-PRESIDENT
ZUBER
ARCHITECTS
GUS HARD,
1937 TATUM
•
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• you have studied the feasibility of that project itself." Feasib-
ility - Financial, how is is going to be worked through and how is it
going to be phased (are the dollars there?),and community acceptance,
unless the community can accept the program, there is no program. He
was concerned about the destruction of existing vegetative cover and
felt the plan completely disregarded existing vegetation. Also, he
feels that the ~t-1/2 acres plus of ponding areasvd.ll probably have to
be fenced which will not make a park like appearance but water holes
and parking lots. He feels the contiguous people should be able to
use the property for a place to walk, bird watch and look at flowers.
He wants the Planning Commission to look at the PUD as to what will be
good for the residents of Fdcon Heights.
•
Jim Steiland, Attorney at Law, Popham, Haik, Schnobrich, Kaufman &
Doty, Ltd., spoke to the legal ramifications of the PUD. He feels that
the Planning Commission has the leverage to control the development and
this control will be given away if the plan is approved. The developer
will acquire rights that will put the planning Commission in a jeopardy
position and in litigation which the Commission will lose. The second
point he made was that the citizens were not given the opportunity to
consider the traffic control issue that was passed by Resolution in
the early part of this meeting. He felt it was a significant enough
item that was changed that it may require a new notice and hearing.
The City Attorney should address this issue before a final decision is
made.
Larry Stowe summed up by requesting the Planning Commission to reject the
proposal of American Shelter Corporation for the PUD.
Harold Westin indicated that some of the drainage areas will be there
only 21~ to ~8 hours after a 100 year intensity rainfall and will return
to grassy swales except for the ones that will be lined with impervious
bottoms to recirculate the water. These amount to three permanent ponds
with 18" fences, which will be covered with shrubbery. He feels that
the land is a very valuable piece of land and is treated as such with
their plan. The Resolution as adopted will be very workable within
their plan with regard to traffic outlets. He would be willing to furnish
a traffic signal at Prior as part of the project.
Thomas Goodman, Attorney for American Shelter Corporation, pointed out
that the present zoning is not practical--and everyone is in agreement
with that. He points out that the density has to do with economics and
there is a positive public need for housing. The plan is not arbitrary
and is clearly defensible, not capricious and if challended, the victory
would be on the part of the city. He agrees that the city has a great
deal of leverage over the development and this has been exercised, he
is in favor of the PUD, he disagrees with the financial strength of the
developer, disagrees that the Commission needs more time to study the
project and that the Commission should get on with the procedure since
this is only a preliminary plan. He feels that the Commission should
take affirmative action with restrictions as necessary.
JIM STEILAND,
ATTORNEY,
POPHAM, HAIK,
SCHNOBRICH,
KAUFMAN &
DOTY, LTD.
LARRY STOWE
HAROLD ~NESTIN
THOMAS
GOODMAN,
ATTORNEY,
AMERICAN
SHELTER CORP.
•
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Carl Dale indicated that his mind was not changed by the presentations
of the other professionals. The PUD Ordinance is very similar as the
other ordinances in many other villages. He felt most of the testimony
related to procedures and could not find what specific harm this plan
presented to the general community. Each plan as presented has been
an improvement over the previous one and the city will not lose control
because specific controls were set up with an open-ended PUD. He
feels it is a good blan and worthy of consideration.
Gus Hard asks Planner Dale why he felt the plan was a good plan from
the beginning and with three improvements, it was still a good plan.
Planner Dale answered that he had not changed his position and felt
there was no need for the neighbors to hire professionals.
•
Engineer Lemberg again indicated that if the project were to be
adopted that the access other than Larpenteur go to Cleveland as the
plans at that time showed as an alternate method. All the work that
was done indicated that the r~roject will require very technical design
and with the review of the sanitary sewer, that information is valuable
to the city for this designed project or any other project. It was
his understanding all the way through the project that the nursery
people were maintaining the right to remove the nursery stock from the
area. Labalestra asked Engineer Lemberg if he considered future
development along Larpenteur on both sides of Tatum to the capacity
of the R-3 zoning. Lemberg answered that it had been considered for
the present zoning.
CARL DALE
GUS HARD
CARL DALE
ENGINEER
LEMBERG
Orlyn Miller rebutted a couple of questions: More information could ORLYN MILLER
have been included in the ordinance which would not have required an
eight page document; arbitrary--there are no guidelines in the ordinance,
and the existing zoning--he does not condemn it and it could be used
as R-1.
John Sirney again stated that the right to the sun will be denied to
people who have enjoyed it for 30 to 1~0 years--those living on Tatum
Street and to some of the townhouses within the development.
Larry Stowe asked if negotiations had been finalized with the University
regarding the leasing or purchase of the land necessary for an access
onto Cleveland Avenue. He also asked if the access onto Prior Avenue
thru Falcon Woods will remain an emergency access in years to come.
Nilsen stated that the resolution as adopted was meant to protect the
people in Falcon Woods and Tatum Street and asked whether some form of
guarantee could be written. Discussion indicated that no such guarantee
could be made and Attorney Swanson advised that you could not preclude
future action by the City Council. The City Council has the power to
condemn property and within that power is the power to condemn
restrictions.
JQHN SIRNEY
LARRY STOWE
•
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• Harold Nilsen asked whether Attorney Swanson was satisfied with the NILSEN/
wording of the permit form. Attorney Swanson advised that the permit SWANSON
was not yet in final form and the City Council has ample authority to
regulate the use of the property and it can do that by permit as well
as by the plans to be adopted for that property. When you approve a
PUD, you approve a plan as well as a written statement on how to
implement the plan. The plan includes the design, structures, etc.
and when that is approved, it is in a sense a contract, although
legally it is not. It is an ordinance on how the property can be used.
The plan can be changed by action of the City Council but the property
owner cannot change the -plan without Council consent.
Jerry Wallin requested Attorney Swanson look at the Resolution earlier WALLIN/
passed to see whether or not its adoption constituted a defect in the SWANSON
proceedings tonight so as to jeopardise the city-and subject it to
litigation.
dark Ascerno, 1871 Tatum, requested the plan be disapproved until a MARK ASCERNO
guarantee can be made for an access onto Cleveland. 1871 TATUM
Ray Garcia, 1906 Prior, asked that the Planning Commission accept the RAY GARCIA
wishes of the people affected by the plan and reject the proposal 1906 PRIOR
until a proposal can be reached that is satisfactory.
Terry Brennan, President of American Shelter Corporation, indicated that TERRY BRENNAN,
he is the purchaser of the Hawkins-Hermes property and he intends to PRESIDENT,
• put the property to the best and highest use, a lawful use and a use AMERICAN
that can be accommodated for the people who will buy the property. He SHELTER CORP.
feels that the neighbors and the city will benefit from his use of the
property. A project of his has just been completed in 'Nest St. Paul and
it fits very favorable into the neighborhood. Mr. Brennan stated he
intends to meet his financial obligations and that he has met them in
the past. The initial fonder and takeout fonder has approved the design
and layout. Tom Mc Gough asked Mr. Brennan if he could put up a
performance bond. He answered he had the ability but it is very costly
but will do so if it is a statutory requirement. Mark Ascerno offered
pictures taken of the West St. Paul project and asked where the 200 mature
trees were planted?
Dick and Carolyn Gay, 1930 Summer, asked the total cost of the project. DICK AND
They expressed their views on timings of documents, changes in plans, CAROLYN GAY,
the tax base and building costs per square foot. 1930 SUMMER
Mark Ascerno asked if American Shelter Corporation will indeed be the MARK ASCERNO
builder/developer of the property. Thomas Goodman advised that if the
plan is approved anyone could build on the property according to the
specifications of the plan.
Erma Olson moved to adopt the preliminary plan for the following ERMA OLSON
reasons:
•
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• (1) Plan is in conformity with the comprehensive plan for the city,
(2) Will assure the city of Falcon Heights that we keep our population
above 5,000 (Metro Council announced new population estimates for
1981 and the certified figures indicated that the population
decreased .from the census figures of 1980),
(3) Will improve the city's tax base by 20 percent,
(1t) Evidence submitted does not show reasonable potential for undue
adverse affects upon existing adjacent and nearby housing, and
(5) Density is appropriate for this area.
Erma Olson moved and ti1'allin seconded the adoption of
RESOLUTTON 82-3
A RESOLUTION RECOMIutENDING THAT THE CITY COUNCIL AP°ROVE
THE REZONING OF THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS THE HAW'KINS-HERMES
PROPERTY AND AS MORE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED BY THE IN-
CLUDED LEGAL DESCRIPTION TO A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT
DISTRICT A5 APPLIED FOR BY AMERICAN SHELTER CORPORATION
ON DECEIvIBER 17, 1981
•
Harold Nilsen requested Attorney Swanson's decision on whether the
adoption of Resolution 82-2 was in fact a defect in the proceedings
and Attorney Swanson advised it was not since Resolution 82-3
contained the modification as a restriction.
Bob Blomberg questions whether a performance bond is part of the
Resolution and Jerry UVallin indicated a performance bond was not a
part of the preliminary plan. Mr. Stefanson advised it is something
that the City Council could add on if it vuere approved tonight.
Nilsen stated that the plan would be approved in principal and the
details would be worked out at a later date.
Chairman Stefanson speaks in favor of the Resolution. The plans have
changed at each public hearing making it a more favorable plan. The
density of under ten is what the Planning Commission felt was a workable
density number. This project is very important to the city of Falcon
Heights and to its future. It will increase the tax base considerably
and the PUD method will give the City Council more control. He has
listened very carefully to all the input given by the neighborhood task
force at all the meetings and public hearings. Therefore, it makes the
decision of the Planning Commission very difficult when the citizens
surrounding the PUD are not in agreement. However, he has to think
back to when he was appointed t o the Planning Commission by the City
Council and at that time he took an oath to do what was best for the
city of Falcon Heights, and be fair and open-minded. So, after six
months of meetings and public hearings, he feels it is a good project--
especially with the street plan change--and will vote in favor of it.
RESOLUTION
82-3
NILSEN~
SWANSON
BOB BLOMBERG
AL STEFANSON
-9-
•
Walso asks a question about the report submitted by Engineer Lemberg
and whether the Resolution includes his recommendations. Stefanson
advised that both Lemberg's and Dale's recommendations were included.
John Labalestra has one major objection to the plan as submitted and
that relates t:o the density of the surrounding area in light of the
people who live there and their expectations. However, in light of
what is best for the city of Falcon Heights, the hope of building single
family homes is not something that is in the future. He wishes there
has been an opportunity for the builder and the citizens to meet to
discuss the project. He is also voting against the Resolution because
there are no recreational ammentities on the site; i.e. tennis courts,
swings, etc.
JOHN
LABALFSTRA
Harold Nilsen asked President Terry Brennan, American Shelter Corporation, NILSEN~
whether the plan could decrease the density and still be viable. He BRENNAN
answered by stating that feasibility of financing is so very close both
in construction and take-out financing that it is getting to a point
where it is touch and go. He wn.ll consider the question by the 10th
of March.
Following the discussion, the following voted in favor of the foregoing
motion: Olson, Nilsen, Stefanson, Wallin, Mead and 'rl+aldo, and voting
against the same: Blomberg and Labalestra. Motion carried to adopt
the Resolution. It will be passed on to the City Council for a public
hearing on March 10th at 7:00 P.M.
Chairman Al Stefanson thanked each member of the Planning Commission for
their time spent on the project.
Wallin moved, seconded by Labalestra that the meeting be adjourned at ADJOURN
11:15 P.M. Motion carried unanimously.
,~ ? ~ 1
.l~wl, ,
,Derry Wallin, Secretary