HomeMy WebLinkAboutPCMin_82Apr12MINUTES
PLANNING C02;~,~ISSION MEETING
APRIL 12, 1982
The Planning Commission meeting was called to order at 7:05 P.M. by
Chairman Al Stefanson.
Stefanson, Olson, Bourquin, Nilsen, Blomberg, Labalestra and Wallin.
Also present were Council Liaison Larson and Planner Carl Dale.
Waldo and Mead.
The first agenda item to be considered was the approval of the 1+'ebruary
and March minutes. Jerry N~~allin and Al Stefanson did not detect any
discrepancies in the February minutes so Bourquin moved and Labalestra
seconded a motion to approve the February 1, 1982 minutes as submitted.
Motion carried unanimously.
The March 1, 1982 minutes were discussed and again ti"tallin and Stefanson
did not find any discrepancies. John Labalestra indicated that his
comments on page nine should have contained more than one objection to
the plan as submitted--specifically that traffic patterns had not been
established but since his comments have been documented later, he had no
objection to approval of the minutes. Jerry Wallin moved and Olson
seconded that the minutes be adopted as currently written. I~4otion
carried unanimously.
V~rith regard to the minutes of the March 29, 1982 meeting, due to the fact
that the tapes did not record, a discussion was held as to what action
should be taken to fill in the speaker gaps. Jim Bourquin stated that
he felt that there was another resolution considering the fact that
there would be no more proposals for the development of the Hawkins-
Hermes property. Al Stefanson stated that he remembered such a proposal
being a recommendation but it was not in the form of a resolution.
Labalestra agreed. He felt that the minutes should be approved as
written since there would be no way to functionally recall what
speficially har~pened that evening. Jerry 6"allin agreed and stated
that although they were incomplete, they do appear to contain the
substantial elements that were discussed. Jim Bourquin also agreed
to approve the minutes as submitted but to add a paragraph indicating
the desire of the Planning Commission to work on criteria for the
development of the property. Jerry V~allin mentioned the fact that there
is a pending law suit regarding the failure ~f the City Council to
approve the PUD as approved by the Planning Commission and if the
courts were to decide that Council action was arbitrary, fig: believed
that the original PUI) would be given new life and any criteria established
after the fact would be moot. But, if the law suit were dismissed or
denied on its merits, he feels it is a good idea to establish criteria
since there is an opz~ortunity to do so. Therefore, he moved that the
minutes be approved as they are written with the understanding that
there were other discussions that were not reflected. Olson seconded
the motion and it carried unanimously.
PRESENT
ABSENT
FEBRUARY 1ST
MINUTES
MARCH 1ST
MINUTES
MARCH 29TH
PQINUTES
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PLANNING COTdMISSION
APRIL 12, 1982
PAGE 2
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The next order of business was a request from Gary Ostergren, Falcon GARY OSTERGRE]
Heights Service Center, 1525 'Ju'est Larnenteur, to install a portable FALCON
paint booth in the north stall of the station. P~dr. Ostergren was not HEIGHTS
in attendance. Sandy Larson pointed out that she had discussed the SERVICE
matter with Jerry Renchin, the Fire Chief, and he gave her a document CENTER
containing all the safety criteria that must be met for installation
of paint equipment. Chief Renchin indicated to her that if all the
criteria were met, the Falcon Heights Service Center would have to be
more than half rebuilt. Erma Olson indicated that Gary Ostergren had
sent for plans that had not yet been received. John Labalestra requested
information as to what aspect of the ordinance the conditional use is
requested. Jerry Vl'allin pointed out that in Carl Dale's Comprehensive
Plan concept of the central business district, the long range goal is
not to have that type of facility located on that corner. The matter
was tabled.
Al Stefanson called on the Tatum~Falcon t~toods Task Force to present LARRY STONIE
comments on the guidelines submitted to the Planning Commission in their TASK FORCE
April 9th letter. Larry Stowe briefly commented on the principal points
as they relate to a PUD and which are centered around the density issue.
They have established a basic figure of 102 dwelling units under present
zoning and increased by a maximum of ~0 percent which is not automatic
but dependent upon a system of credits or merits for different items in
the PUD that would be provided by the developer. If the area is not
developed as a DUD, then the R-1 zoning requirements should be followed
with regard to density as laid out in the City Ordinance. Park Ascerno
then explained how the ~0 percent figure was arrived at. They t ook the
underlying zoning of R-1 on the 25.1 acres as it now exists, which results
in 109 units in the area. Proceeding to the R-2 zoning southwest of the
area, it contains 1.2 acres and would allow a density of eight units. In
the B-lA zoning, containing a half acre, an a1_lowable density would be
20 units per acre or. 10 units for a half acre. This adds up to a total
of 127 units per acre. Based upon the assumption that 20 percent of the
area would require roadways, they arrived at 102 dwelling units that
could be built under current residential zoning. Therefore, at a 32
percent increase for 131 units net, based on R-1 zoning for single family
detached housing on the perimeter of the property adjacent to Tatum
Street~Falcon 1Noods homes, it totals 7.5 acres at R-1 zoning which
yields 33 units. If the remainder is developed at R-2 density
it would
,
yield 19.3 acres or 13l~ units totaling 167 units. Twenty percent is
then again subtracted fo roads .for 13)~ units per acre net. In
conversations with the Task Force and Orlyn ?vti.ller, a !~0 percent increase
was opted for, which they feel is far above what is normally suggested
for many of the other DUDS in the metropolitan area. Therefore, they
feel that this is a reasonable compromise.
~°d"alter Northrop, 191.2 Summer Street, commented that ~'UD is the best way Vt~ALTER
to proceed with acceptable guidelines. He feels that the compromise NORTHROP,
proposal will allow development to proceed immediately, if not sooner. 1912 SUl~~VIFR
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PLANNING COMMISSION
APRIL 12, 1982
PAGE 3
The compromise proposal is based upon the intregity of the underlying
zoning and allows the developer a very generous increase over the
zoning. They have no objections to any specific developer including
American Shelter. 'Phey simply are looking for criteria and any
developer that can satisfy this criteria with a plan that will meet
the requirements of the Planning Commission and the City Council, they
are in agreement.
Carl Dale evaluated the suggestions submitted to him by the Task Force
and stated the material generally makes three basic recommendations:
(1) There is no general opposition to a PUD zoning approach,
and, in fact, there seems to be a recommended approach;
(2) Vlhile a typical single family home subdivision meeting
code requirements would be acceptable, a pUD plan
with diversified types of housing with increased
dwelling unit density not to exceed 1~0 percent over
that presently oermi.tted by R-1 single family home
zoning might also be acceptable.
(3) A PUD development with. increased dwelling unit
density should be aoproved by the City Council
only under certain standards or guidelines as
outlined in the written material submitted.
• V)hile he had no objections to many of the recommendations submitted, he
felt some needed clarification and some needed elaboration or auagmentati on
and~or modification. He made specific comments and recommendations which
can be found in his April 9th report. He stated he would be willing to
rewrite the criteria which would include the recommendations he has along
with the recommendations of the Task Force that wrould make them more
workable for all concerned. This would not take a large amount of time.
Jim Bourquin again stated that he would like to know specifically what
the financial aids amounted to that the city receives for keeping the
population above 5,000. A discussion ensued regarding the amount of
funding and from vaha,t sources.
Larry Stowe furnished information he had gathered from the Department of
Revenue regarding population figures and the money received from local
government aids from the state. He also stated that the ~dSA funds
would not be cut off but the City would have to make their needs known.
He has serious reservations about basing the change in zoning on trying
to get more people in the City as a way to increase the state aid to
the City.
CARL DALE
CITY PLANNER
JIM BOURC`UIN
LARRY STOVVE
Erma Olson stated that when the Metro Council released their figures on ERMA OLSON
population she talked at length with the State demographer regarding her
interpre±,ation of the information. The Demographer stated .that the
• population in Falcon Heights has decreased for the last 20 years and
the only way the population will increase is by adding new housing.
ii4INUTES
PLANNING COP~I,4ISSION
APRIL 12, 1982
PAGE ~
Erma pointed out that when the last census was taken, no one could
believe that between 1.970 and 1980 the population had dropped between
500 and 600 people. Vdth instruction from the City Council, the City
took their own census and found the figures to be correct. Therefore,
she feels that at this point with only 271 people over 5,000, the
population shou~.d be increased because when you divide the expenses
of the city among a certain number of people the more people you have
to pay those expenses, the less it is going to cost. Some people may
feel that living in Falcon Heights is worth the price but not all feel
this way. As a member of tree Planning Commission she feels she has the
responsibility to make sure that everyone in the community can afford to
continue to live here.
ERMA OLSON
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Darold. Nilsen volunteered to go down to the Highway Department to actually HAROLD NILSEN
see what the aids are and what the population needs to be to receive those
aids.
Carolyn Gay, 1930 Summer, asked if the 5,000 population included those
people living on University property and whether commerical property
development had been considered for this area. Every viable outlet
had been pursued for that property, Sandy Larson advised P~7rs. Gay.
Harold Nilsen advised that the City was glad to have the Hewlett-Packard
company located in I~'alcon Heights but that companies of this type want
visibility and would not be willing to build without it. P,rIrs. Gay feels
the City is worrying too much about keening the population above 5,000.
Al Stefanson advised that a developer has purchased the property and
intends to build residential structures on the property and not
commercial.
Larry Stowe advised that the PUD would. apply to all areas of the property
in question and emphasizes the fact that the property should be developed
with less density on Tatum and more density in the other areas staying
with a density figure of 1~Q percent, which he feels is liberal. He made
some points that he felt needed to be clarified such as the bonus points
for drainage and the road through the University property. PJIr. Stowe
feels that the Neighborhood Task torte and Carl Dale are in very close
agreement but there is still some distinct difference in the density
issue and it is the same density issue that eras discussed for the past
three months.
Erma Olson questions why the Planning Commission is establishing criteria
for a PUD when no one has asked for a PUD. The developer is platting the
land for single family housing and is developing it. She does not under-
stand why at this point the Commission is discussing criteria for a PUD.
Al Stefanson advised that the Planning Commission requested the Task Force
to develop criteria and they have now done so. Olson said she could under-
stand why the Planning Commission might do this to put it into the new
zoning ordinances for a future PUD but she does not understand how it
could apply to this property unless the owner of the property requests it
but he hai asked for one and was refused so he is apparently settling for
CAROLYPd GAY,
1930 SUIVIlUIER
LARRY STOWE
ERr4A OLSON
i~2INUTES
PLAR;NING COTJ~:TISSION
.APRIL 12, 1982
PAGE 5
R-1 zoning. Mr. Stefanson points out that the Task Force v~ras requested AL STEFANSON~
to develop criteria and when they are approved by the Planning Commission BOUR~UIN~
they would be passed along to American Shelter as guidelines for developing l~~'ALLIN~LARSON
the Ha~akiris,-Hermes parcel of property. Bourquin and Wallin felt that LABALESTRA
American Shelter wanted to get started with development along the northern
strip this construction season and then come in later and request a PUD
for development of the rest of the property. Council Liaison Larson
was of the opinion that the PUD was a dead issue unless the court so
decides, which will take a year or more. Wallin stated that he felt
that American Shelter could come back with a slightly different proposal
for a PUD and if it were approved, the law suit vrould be dismissed. John
Labalestra felt that the developer wanted to develop the northern tier
of the property for cash flow, which is consistent with what the Planning
Commission and the Task Force has recommended, and now specific guide-
lines should be developed generated by the Task Force, modified if
necessary by the Planning Commission and passed on to the Council so
that the developer could present another PIID and could be approved and
developed. He does not feel that PUD is a dead issue.
Harold Nilsen moved that the City Council allow Carl Dale the opzzortunity :4~OTION TO
to enlarge upon the guidelines presented by the Tatum~Falcon Woods Task ALLO~~' CARL
Force. Wallin seconds the motion. A discussion ensued with Labalestra DALE
stating that the guidelines exceed his expectations as to what could be OPPORTUNITY
developed and as far as specifics, he does not like to be locked into TO Vv~ORK ON
the !~0 percent increase because of the design flexability. The PUD allows GtTIDELII~`ES
for the conditional approval as you move from one step in the development
to another and these are the safeguards. Stefanson and Olson are in
favor of the motion. V'r"a11in states that he personally does not like to
have hard and fast limits established because he believes that upper
limits on density is inappropriate and density should be limited by
the other prevailing factors that bear on the total situation and that
is the specific use of the land. Motion carried unanimously.
Stefanson again requests Harold Nilsen to research the 5,000 population STFFANSON~
question. NILSEN
Nilsen moved, seconded by Olson, that the meeting be adjourned at 9:50 ADJOURN~~NT
P.P-t. Next meeting scheduled for May 3, 1982.
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J y W 1 in, Secretary
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