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HomeMy WebLinkAbout04/04/1979 P&Z MinutesA special meeting of the Lino Lakes Planning and Zoning Board was called to order at 8:I3P.M. Wednesday, April 4, 1979 by Chairman Gourley. Members present: Gourley, Shearen, Schwankl, Reinert, Heath, Johnson. Members absent: Mattson. City Attorney Locher, Planner Short, Engineer Gotwald and Building Official Mobley were present. Council liason, John McLean was also present. The purpose of the meeting is to discuss Mr. Glenn Rehbein's proposal to replat Shenandoah III and to decide if the Bkoard thinks it is a good idea and if so who to handle the replatting to best protect cthe interest of the citizens of Lino Lakes. Mr. Rehbein said he presented this proposal two weeks ago at the regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board. The proposal is under the guidelines of the Metro Council stand- areds for lower house size and tot size so that it will make a lower cost house. His pro- posals are well within the Metro guidelines. The plat plan was considered. It was noted there was not a plan in the Clerk's file. The lots are designed for a minimum size of 10,000 square feet and the minimum house size of 864 square feet. Mr. Rehbein said he wants to build these homes in a factory about four miles from the plat. He feels these will be better built+and cost about $40,000 to $45,000. These will be manufactured full houses not like these we are all familar with. He wants this to be a model project that both had and the City can be proud of. He also plans to sell the homes in other cities. Mr. McLean asked when he would be building these houses in a factory in Lino Lakes. Mr. Rehbein said about Iz to 2 years. He currently has leased a building just south of the City. Mr. McLean asked about the 864 sq. ft. house size. Mr. Rehbein had several designs but the smallest was 864 sq. ft. He estimated that approximately 15% of the plat would be the smaller size. Mr. McLean asked how he would control not going over the 15% estimate. Mr. Rehbein said he would put a covenant on the plat. Mr. McLean said if the lot size and house size were reduced it would have to be City wide. Mr. Rehbein said he was just talking about his plat not the entire City. Mr. Rehbein said he wants to make a model project. Every lot would be completely sodded. Mr. Gourley asked Mr. Locher if the City would have a problem in controlling 15% of this plat to the smaller house size and the remaining 85% to the 960 sq. ft. house size. Mr. Locher said he did not know if convenants executed by a developer could be enforced by the City. He will research this question in his office and try to have an answer for the April 9, 1979 Council meeting. Mr. McLean said feasibily you have reduced your City Ordinance to the 864 sq. ft. house size, whether you do it by variance or changi-ng the ordinance. Mr. Reinert asked about garages, Mr. Gourley said no garages are planned immediately. Mr Reinert felt retired persons would need a garage and Mr. Rehbein said it is a no frills house without a garage to keep the prices lower. Mrs. Schwankl said the garages,can be built later. Mr. Gourley noted the owner can decide when he can afford a garage. Mr. Gourley asked Mr. Locher if there would be a problem in setting up Mr. Rehbein's pro- ject without opening the entire City to this sort of development? Mr. Shearen said this was the prime question right now. If this is a problem we should draw the Line right now. Mr. McLean said how can you take a piece of property over here and say I am going to do this over here and somebody else comes along and you say you can not do this over there. This is discrimination. If we makeup our mind that it is the decision of the Council to allow Page -2- April 4, 1979 smaller houses in this City then this an an ordinance change. It is not a special deal here and a special deal over there. Mr. Shearen noted that at_the last P & Z meetingiit was suggested that this be set up as an experimental bases. Maybe this is not possible. Mr. McLean said it is the wrong way to go. You are eroding your ordinance stucture. Mr. Rehbein said he was not trying to erode the ordinances. He noted that the Metro guide- lines does not suggest that the entire City be opened to smaller lot and house sizes. Do it by spot zoning. Really what you are doing then is rezoning'this property. Mr. McLean said we do not have a zoning for this kind of thing. Mr. Reinert was not sure what the attorney has stated and asked Mr. Locher to repeat his previous statements. Mr. Locher said he would research these questions. Mr. McLean in- trepreted the Metro Council position as dispersing the smaller houses with the larger houses not just make a street of mailer houses. Mr. Short presented his intrepretation of Metro guidelines. Mr. Reinert asked Mr. Short if he agreed with the Attorney that with this sort of development that you do tend to get a "slum" type development. Mr. Short said he did not agree with the word "slum" but lower cost housing especially if there is no garages generate more outdoor storage. He noted Circle Pines situation and felt no, it did not necessarily create "slums". He pointed out restrictive covenants and other things to help from giving a slum appearance. Mr. Rehbein pointed out the Brooklyn Center situation near the Howe Fertizler Plant. Not one of the houses are 1,000 sq. ft. yet it is a real neat community. He pointed out Bloom- ington lowered their standard to 77 sq. ft., White Bear Lake lot size is 7,200 sq. ft, Maple Grove, 7,200 sq. ft. Shoreview, 10,400 sq. ft. Mr. Rehbein objected to the word "slum" on low income housing. Mr. Reinert said he should not have used the word "slum". Mr. Rehbein told the Board he took the Building Inspector to inspect the factory built home in March. He explained how he planned to build these homes to preserve their appearance. Mr. Zelinka said he resented the word "slum" being applied to smaller houses. He noted he lives in the Lakeview area where the houses are small. He said he would rather see a smaller home that is well built with good material than a larger home that is built just to get by. The Lakeview area was designed to be a "slum" area but because the people were proud of their homes it developed into a nice area. They have been inproved. He said he resented the idea that lower cost housing would bring in slim people. He also noted that requiring people to build larger $50,000, $60,000 homes was also discriminatory. In regard to garages, he told the Board he has a garage that is totally insulated and heated but has rately had a car in it in the last five years. Mr. McLean asked what is the difference between the home Mr. Rehbein is planning to build and a Wausau home. Mr. Rehbein siad this is a regular stick house built in one piece, Wausau is panaled and not always built of full deminsion lumber. Mr. Rehbein told of the factory he has visited and taken finance people to inspect as well as other people who agree this is a first class house. He showed the Board pictures of the model homes. Mr. Kulaszewicz asked about the cost of the home. Mr. Rehbein said the price he quoted is for a full house on a basement with sewered and fully sodded lot. He noted some homes he saw built about 1948 and they are still nice homes. Mr. Rehbein explained the high cost of homes is due to sub contractors cuts, he will eliminate all subcontractors, there is no waste, no stealing off of the property and no weather problems. Mr. Reinert asked the cost per sq. ft. at the present time if you were to ask a contractor to build a home for you. Mr. Shearen said about $60.00 including the lot. Mr. Rehbein said Page -3- April 4, 1979 the house he has been looking at costs about $18.00 per sq. ft. and it did not include the lot, carpet, furnace or basement or transportation to the lot. Mr. Rehbein said these houses would be put on a full basement. The model house would be built with a garage to show the prospective buyer how it will look with a garage. Mr. Rehbein said he would have restrictive covenants regarding garages, he did not want it to be an eye sore. Mr. Shearen asked Mr. Mobley if the room sizes met the City ordiance and Mr. Mobley said, Yes. He explained he saw the houses Mr. Rehbein is planning to build and he would wager no private contractor could build a better quality house and explained the procedure of building this house. The structability of these houses .are far better than any house being built in this City at this time. He explained the construction in detail. Mr. Shearen said the qualdity of construction will be up to the building inspector and is not the concern of this Board. Mr. Johnson asked how many models Mr. Rehbein had and noted all models looked pretty much the same. Mr. Rehbein said they will be custom built to what the _,owner wants. They will all be different. Mr. Reinert wanted more information about why the forefathers asked for a 1,000 sq. ft. size limit and Mr. Shearen said tax base primarily. Mr. McLean said it was also an average of what was being done in the surrounding communities. Mr. Rehbein read from the Metro Survey that 58% of the cities require from 720 sq. ft. He noted he was on the Planning and Zoning Board when the present ordinance was established but now trends are for smaller homes to use less energy. Mr. McLean said this is a good point. If the decision is to go to a smaller square footage make it for the entire City. Mr. Rehbein said he did not agree, try it first before you change the entire City. Mr. Shearen said he is in favor of dropping square footage. Maybe by next Monday, Mr. Locher can tell the City how to accomplish this. Mr. Reinert felt you can not deal with one situation one time and another situation another time. There should be some uniformity. Mr. McLean said covenants are policed by the land owner not the City. He felt covenants did not work very well. Mr. Shearen asked Mr. Mobley if average permits issued by this City are larger than our minimum code. Mr. Mobley said 60% are holding to the minimum and 40% are over the minimum. Mrs. Schwankl asked if those that are over the minimum are built by people who have previously owned a home and built, up an equity. There was no answer. Mr. Shearen said the point he is trying to bring out is that not all the houses are goint to be the minimum sizes. Mr. Mobley said this is correct. Mr. Reinert said based on the $18.00 per square foot quoted by Mr. Rehbein, if the code is reduced to 860 sq. ft. vs. 1,000 sq. ft. you are only saving about $2,500.00. Mr. Rehbein said,yes on the cost of the house only, the $18.00 did not include basement, lot etc. He said he could drop the 860 sq. ft. plan but hoped could get approval of the 24' x 40' house or 960 sq. ft. Mr. Reinert asked Mr. Rehbein what he figured his square foot cost would be. Mr. Rehbein Page -4- April 4, 1979 said you would have to take into consideration the lot, basement, well, the total house for $45,000 and divide this by 960 square feet. Mr. Reinert asked what the density factor in the plat is. It was not determined. The lot density was discussed and again Mr. Rehbein said his request fell well within the Metro Council guidelines. Mr. Gourley said he felt that this Board has sort of decided that the City could tie the lot sizes to the sewered district. But can the house size be tied to the lot size. Mr. McLean said that reducing the house size to 960 does not seem to give anyone any problem. Also the 10,000 sq. ft. fot size does not seem to be a problem as long as the frontage is maintained. Mr. McLean suggested that the lot sizes could be reduced to 10,000 sq. ft. with 75' front- age in urban sewer service district I. The 960 sq. ft. will make it consist with the split entry house. Mr. Rehbein asked how soon this could be implemented and Mr. McLean said this could be implemented prior to completing the Comprehensive Land Use Plan. Mr. Gourley said he felt it looks like this Board did not have any problem with a 960 sq. ft. building or the 10,000 sq. ft. lot but tied to the sewered lot. Mr. Rehbein said he still would like to explore a 860 sq. ft. house and explained why. He would like to make this a pilot project to be proud of if the City would only bear with him before Sussel or someone else beats him to the idea. Mr. Reinert asked Mr. Short is there a trend to a smaller aq. ft. home. Mr. Short told of areas that have smaller lot sizes but as far as house sizes are concerned, he has not practical experience. He feels this is a general trend. Mr. Locher referred to Ordinances 2, 56, and 6 in regard to lot sizes. Mr. Gourley said it appears that we started out small, went larger and now plan to go smaller. Again Mr. Rehbein stated that not all the houses in this plat will be the minimum house size. A buyer can have a larger than our present minimum built if he wishes. The lake facing lots will be more expensive and probably have much more expensive homes on them. Mr. Gourley said it is his understanding that there is no way the City can tie the smaller lot sizes to this particular plat without inviting a lot of controversy. Mr. Locher said he would research to see if the City can tie the smaller house size to a particular zone and it seems that there would be no problem with tying the smaller lot size to the sewered areas. Mr. Rehbein asked if he could have no more than 15% of this plat in the 864 sq. ft. size homes. Mr. McLean asked how could this be controlled. Mr. Rehbein said the Building In- spector could by issuing the building permits. Mr. Zelinka said he feels that our present requirements are more discriminatory than what Mr. Rehbein is proposing. We are di -criminating against the poor or older citizen. He felt that if we do not allow Mr. Rehbein to build here he will build in another community. He would rather see him do his first building here because it will be a show place. Mr. Reinert said he did not feel they should get into personalities. A gentlemen from the audience asked if anyone has checked with the residents in the area about lowering the house and lot size standard. Some area residents would be very upset and disagreed that the younger people and older people cannot afford our present standards. It does not seem to be true in this area. Mr. Gourley explained that at this point the Board is just gathering facts not holding a Page -5- April 4, 1979 public hearing. Mr. Reinert felt there should be further research by the City Attorney and then come back to this Board. Mr. Gourley said this Board should ask the Attorney to research the legal aspects of Mr. Rehbeins proposal and bring his decision bact to this Board's next Wednesday evening. Mr. Reinert said that one of the problems is the potential discrimination question. Mr. Gourley asked if this Board should ask Mr. Locher to research possibility of having a percentage of 864 sq. ft. homes. Mr. Reinert felt that this is part of the discrimination _. aspect. Mr. Reinert asked the City Attorney what he is going to research. Mr. Locher said he will research if covenants executed by a developer could be executed by the City. Also he will research if the City can reduce the house and lot size ordinance for just one area of the City. Mr. Shearen moved to adjourn. Mr. Reinert seconded the motion. Aye.