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HomeMy WebLinkAbout04/11/1979 P&Z Minutes270 1") A special meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board was held Wednesday, April II, 1979. Mr. Gourley, Chairman opened the meeting at 8:16 P.M. Members present: Schwankl. Reinert, Johnson, Heath, Mattson, Shearen. Mr. McLean, Council liason ..and Mr. Gotwald City Engineer; were also present. Mr. Gourley noted a problem being experienced at the last April 4, 1979 meet- ing wWich was taped. Teh Clerk could not always pick up the speakers from the audience and asked anyone i:n the audience who wmuld be speaking to come to the front area. Mr. Courley said the purpose of this meeting this evening was to set up procedures to review the Comprehensive Land Use. Plan and identify areas this Board will be dealing with and possibly set up some special committees. Mr. McLean Mr. McLean explained Mr.Short could not attend this evening. The Board will be going through the Blue Comprehensive Land Use Book and the pro- duct will be a new book. He suggested the following: procedure; 1. List all needed areas of changes and update A. Comprehensive Land Use Plan B. Supporting ordinances. 2. Inventory ofwhat we have in the City (comprehensive map) A. Assets B. Liabilities 3. Redefine targets - Comprehensive Plan Mr. McLean asked the Clerk to get copies of the map that identifies the sewer districts one and two for each Board member. Regarding sewers, the Board should look at the interium and final sewer plans as outlined by Mr.Gotwald. Mr. Gotwald has a great deal of knowlege of the variou$ negotiations with Metro Council. Regarding the inventory, the Board will be looking at both the positive and negative things, such as the high water table. Mr. McLean asked Mr. Reinert and Mrs. Schwankl to go with him for a compre- hensive look at the entire City. Arrangements were made for just Mr. McLean and Mr. Reinert to make the tour April 14, 1979 at 8:30 A.M. Redefining targets - Mr. McLean asked each member to look at the statements made at the beginning of the 1974 Comprehensive Land Use Plan and if these statements are not now applicable, change them to something meaningful. Get the statements to say what we want it to say, where we want this City to be. It appears there will be at least two extra meetings a month until the plan is completed. Will there be a problem for anyone. Mr. Mattson said, yes and explained. Mr. McLean asked Mr. Mattson to let him know what the outcome of fiis situation will be. Mr. Reinert asked about resource people. Mr. McLean said this Beard will have the services of the Engineer, Planner and Attorney whenever they are needed. Mr. McLean suggested every member talk to the community around them to get some idea_what the citizens think. April I I , 1979 271 Mr. Heath asked if there was some way to announce to the City that this pro- ject is underway. Mr. McLean said that the average person may not give you the same answer at a meeting as you might get from him in his own heighborhood. People do not think of the City as a whale, just their own neighborhood or steet. Mr. Gourley asked if there was.a business mans association. Mr. McLean said no, the nearest thing would be, the Lions Club. Mr. Gourley noted a few of the things he felt should be looked at: I. Park land, where are they, where should they be put. Come to anoverall plan for the future. Mr. McLean noted the Council has asked the Park Board to come up, with a plan and they will be providing this Board with plan whether this Board agrees with it or not. Mr. Short has been work- ing with the Park Board. Mr. Gourley asked -Mrs, Schwankl to speed up the, Park Board. 2. Another area to be considered is sewers. Mr. Gotwalds help will be needed in this area. The Board may have to redefine some of the information in the 1974 Plan with the view that a force main was installed not a gravity flow system. How will this affect our plan in relation to the sewer sys- tem that the plan laid out. Mr. Gotwald explained that the Comprehensive Sewer Plan is subject to review and change by the Metro Sewer Board. The present force main interceptor will force a change in the number of connections that can be made and this should be realistic about it and detail where the connections will be. The only problem he could see is who willservice district Two. MrI McLean asked Mr. Gotwald if it would be appropriate to try to maintain District two as a future district so that the City could reserve this cap- acity. Mr. Gotwald said, yes. What he will look at is the capacity alloted for that particular area and take into consideration that a lot of that dis- trict has already been subdivided, they are larger I, 22 and 5 acre Tots and this large lot area can be taken out of this district and reserve the capacity of this urban service district for thise areas west of.the freeway that may be of commercial and industrial value. These large lots can safely be pulled from the urban service district since these are now new and better methods of installing septic systems are being implemented. This area will take more thartr the south end of the City in district I. Mr. Reinert asked Mr. Gotwald in reference to the industrial land reserves and some of the problems in developing this land due to high ground water, should this City be more selective in the types of industrial development umless they are serviced properly with municipal sewers. Mr. Gotwald said, yes, the Comprehensive Plan does not make any provisions for heavy industrial development just, most of it is planned for light industrial, office com- plexes, etc. He felt any great potential for heavy industrial should be on the east side along the freeway. That will be a special problem. Mr. Gourley said he was thinking that redesignating urban service areas I in terms of the conneetions and urban service II can be broken down into smaller areas. Mr.;: Gotwald agreed and felt there would need to be special attention to the Lakeview area and the Treatment Center and a stretch along Lilic and the intersection of Old 8 and 35W south, the Ulmer addition should be alright. Mr. Gourley asked about service to the area south of the Outpost and Mr. Gotwald said he would definitely recommend this since it is so near the Lakes and Circle Pines and there has already been some requests to service this area. Mr. Gotwald explained the situation with the on site system at Lino Lakes 272 April II, 1979 Treatment Center and that there was somewhat of a committment to ser- vice this with munciOal service in the very near future. Mr. Gourley said one area he has problems with is the area of multiple family dwellings. This Board gets requests tor multi family dwellings that do not agree wi+h what was outlined in the Comprehensive Plan. The Comprehensive Plan shows multi famiily dwellings in the northern part of the City. Since the interceptor is located in the southern part of the Citr that is where the requests are coming from and changes should be amde in the Comprehensive Plan so that the sewer plan and the multi family dwellings coi. ns i de . Mr. Gourley suggested that. Mr. Mobley can address the problem of drain- age. This area is not addressed in the present Comprehensive Plan. Now ponding is occurring all over the City andwe should address our- selves to a City wide drainage plan. Mr. Shearen asked if the Rice Creek Watershed District (RCWD) is suppose to be watching this area. Mr. Gourley said they are suppose to but presently are concerning them- selves with only. platting. Mr. McLean noted the City had already con- tacted the RCWD about this problem. The RCWD has suggested a drainage plan on some sort of a district basis but the City is to_provide the plan, RCWD will then approve the plan. Mr. Gourley wanted ,to know if the RCWD is doing this City any good at this point in time. Mr. McLean said what will happen is that this City will design and coordinate the planning of a City wide pond area. Mr. Gotwald said what should happen is for the City to prepare a map desig- nating wetland areas showing elevations for each subdistrict and estab- lishing the lowest elevation houses can be built at. This will take new buildings out of the flood plain areas. Later on areas will be selected for wet areas reserved for drainage. There could be problems with this. The land owner could object. Mr. McLean asked Mr. Gotwald what it will take to get this map. Mr. Gotwald said he had a map with all the elevations for the whole City. He explained there is:a study going on now by engineers hired by the State to work on the flood insurance map. Mr. Mobley explained the pre- sent map is in 10' grids and they are demanding maps in 2' grid which costs upwards to $30,000 to prepare. Mr. Mobley explianed these engineers are using out of date maps. He further talked about the visit he had with these engineers last summer and the problems with the maps they were using. He said he would like to see our City staff design flow out plans. Presently there is several problems with several plats in this City. Mr. Reinert asked why these maps are not challenged if they are in- accurate? Mr. Mobley said he did just that. Mr. Mobley said he has not challengedthe soils maps just the maps from Metro and some other state agencies. Mr. Gotwald said the more he looks at it the more ac- curate the Soils map looks. Mr. Reinert suggested that these maps should be sorted out. Mr. Gotwald said the City must be careful in preparing the flood plain map since FHA and some other lending institutions may not approve mortgages if they do not carry flood insurance. He also explained the maps they are asking this City to prepare are•very expensive. He also explained he could prepare a map that would be better and then someday prepare what is required by the State. Mr. McLean asked Mr. Gotwald what would be the nest step in preparing this map. Mr. Gotwald said it is not required for the Comprehensive Plan al- though he thought Metro will get involved with storm waters management. April 11,11979 2 7 3 Mr. McLean explained that this City will prepare what we feel is an adequate Comprehensive Plan to submit to Metro Council. Metro will review and point out the areas that do not conform with their overall pain. The City then tries to negotia+e their position, The next problem is density, We need to develop some numbers to go along with these various definition of density. Mr. Gourley said he found his notes from two years ago that says trite Board then was thinking of reducing house square footage. He brought this up at this time to let the Board know that reducing footage is not a new idea. Regarding supporting ordinances; three areas to be looked at: 1. Street lighting - Mr, Gourley suggested.contacttng NSP'and Anoka Electric and ask them to supply materials and cost information. 2. House numbers - The plan should include someicriteraln platting so that there will be uniformity to house numbers. Mr. Mobley noted that there is a mailing going out'of the office soon that asks each house and busi- ness to post their street numbers. Mr. Gourley asked the Clerk for the police files regarding wrong house numbers. Mr. Johnson asked how these house numbers are presently assigned. Mr. Mobley explained. Mr. John- son noted a recent plat that had a street name already used in this City. Mr. McLean said it was caught and changed. 3. Another area of -controversy is the area of natural gas. Mr. Gourley wondered if there was a way to determine who will service the natural gas in the initial platting stages. Mr. McLean noted that Mr. Locher had some suggestions in this area. Mr.Gotwald said he did not feel the Clerk should identify the utility that serves a particular area. 1'1 4. Another area to be looked at is the sign ordinance. Mr. Gourley said he felt the ordineoce is alright but needs to be enforced. 'It still i has not been approved by the State of Minnesota. Mr. Mobley noted one problem is getting sign owners to maintain their signs. Mr. Gourley asked the Board members if they have suggestions regarding revising the Comprehensive Plan. Mr. Heath noted density as a real problem. There was further dicussion on this matter. Mr. Gourley noted you do not get difinite figures from the Metro Council. Mr. Shearen said there is a problem with zoning. 'We have not set a.pattern. Maybe we are at a point where we should zone part of the City. Mr. McLean noted that Metro was critical of our soils map in that the City broke it into only two categories, marginal and severe. We should review this, Metro wanted some set controls on some soil that the City did not re- quire control. Mr. Gotwald said that since our last presentation to Metro the State has prepared WPC - 40 for private on site septic systems. Mr. Johnson asked who is responsible for drain tile? Mr. Mobley said the pro- lem is the State Building Codes does not demand gutters on houees and usually in a plat the owner is responsible for gutters as well as furnishing his lot. Mr. Reinert asked if once this Board gets into this plan and start changing a few things is going of have a domino effect and throw the present plan out of kilter? We may be back to ground zero and do the entire thing from scracth Mr. Shearen felt that this is\just an update and maybe more definitive. 274 April II, 1979 Mr. Blackbird and Mr. Mategko were in the audience. Mr. Blackbird noted that when the present plan was prepared the sewer was suppose to go up Lake Drive. Does this City have to adopt a Lake Shore Ordinance. by 1980 was one of Mr. Blackbirds questions. Mr. McLean said that is one of the items to be considered. Mr. Glenn Rehbein commented on the sewer district in reference to Lake Drive. That is an ideal location for commercial districts for a good tax base. Mr. Shearen again said this is why he feels there are parts of the City that should be zoned right now. Mr. Gourley noted that presently we inform people who want to build on Lake Drive it is commercial property and maybessome one will build a 'gas station next to their new house. Mr. Blackbird said this is so but we are still loosing prome commercial property to housing because there is no sewer. ;A motel or restaurant or other commercial venture cannot come in because lack of sewers. Mr. Heath asked if Lino Lakes could put in a sewer without Metro approval? Mr. McLean said no, Metro approval is needed. Mr. Shearen asked Mr. Gotwald if there is any way of forcing the sewer line along Old #8. Mr. Gotwald'said he would answer this question but first wanted to comment that there is a big difference between a zoning map and a Comprehensive Land Use Plan. A Comprehensive Plan is a guide- line and a zoning map is almost gospel. You do not change a zoning map very often. The official zoning map was consulted and Mr. Gotwald ex- plained It to the members. Mr. Johnson asked why the initial push for sewers was not along the com- mercial district. Mr. Gotwald explained ti was for almost five years and explained it was shot down by Metro. Mr. Rehbein also gave some background on this area. Mr. Gourley asked Mr. Gotwald to address himself to this particular pro- blem as the Comprehensive Plan develops. Mr. Gotwald said he feels that the Birch Street force main sewer is a real problem. Metro is not going to admit they made a real mistake in instal= ling this smaller system. Mr. Nelson from the audience asked why Metro seems to have such a hold on this community especially with regard to the sewers. He had talked to some people at Metro who said when the present force main is full to capacity they will consider a larger interceptor. Mr. McLean said it was a measure to limit growth in this area.' Mr. Nelson felt one issue this Board should address is the industrial area and sicond thought when talking about rezoning,the residents should have an input. In the area of transportation, Mr. Gotwald said it would be wise to con- tact the County, State Highway Department and Metro and get together and determine the designation of thoroughfare, major thoroughfare etc. Mr. Gotwald will provide further informa+lon. Mr. Heath asked if we should have an ordinance such as Hugo's that will identify areas that are poor building areas and it was explained that in a way this City is handling this situation. Mr. Heath said it could be April II, 1979 possible to look at Hugo's Ordinance. Mr. Reinert asked if any thought has been given to surface water use coning es- pecially in regard to certain size motor use or just sail bthating, etc. Mr. McLean said that the citizens should have equal say rather than the City telling them how to use these bodies of water. He noted there is some legislation pend- ing or will be pending regarding lakes in the seven county area. A gentleman in the audience asked how much of an impact will the County have on Cemterville Lake? Mr. McLean explained a great deal because of Open Space. Mr Mobley explained he would like to see a buffer zone between commercial areas and residential areas. He referred to the area on Lake Drive around Ammericanna and Twin City Truck Maintenance. Mr. Gourley stressed his pri;orties; density, sewers , drainages Mr. Gourley asked the Clerk to have the Planner give some input to this Board about density. He added zoning to his list of priorties. Mr. Gourley asked every member to come to the next meeting with some concrete ideas regarding the objectives. The next area is parks and Mr. Gourley asked Mrs. Schwankl to continue to be in contact with the Park Board. Assignments: Parks: Mrs. Schwankl Density - including house sizes, lot sizes, -.Mr. Heath, Mr. Johnson Zoning, Sewers, Drainage, trainsportation - George Gotwald Objectives - everyone Multi - family dwellings - Jim Shearen, Vernon Reinert. Shoreline Management - John McLean, Mr. Gotwald. A special meeting will be set at the next regular Planning and Zoning Board Meeting. Mr. Johnson noted in a plat reviewed at the last Planning and Zoning there was no provision for street lighting and signs. Mr; McLean said there is no reason this Board cannot start recommending that these be included. Mr. Shearen asked about whose responsibility street lighting is? Who pays for this installation, the City as a whole or the developer? If the developer pays for it he passes the cost to the home buyer. Mr. Gourley said it could be ahndled like streets, curbs, etc. Mr. Gotwald suggested another way to handle this is htat the City install the street lights and assess the affected developer. Mr. Shearen moved to adjourn. Mr. Johnson seconded the motion. Aye.