HomeMy WebLinkAbout04/15/1970 P&Z MinutesThe regular meeting of the Village of Lino Lakes Planning & Zoning Board held on
April 15, 1970 was called to order at 8:05 p.m. by Chairman John McLean. All
members were present with the exception of Mr. Jester, who was absent because of
illness, and Mr. Kelling who was out of town. Messrs. Van Housen, Gotwald and
Locher were also in attendance.
Mr. Husnik made a motion to accept the minutes of the March 18, 1970 meting as
presented. Seconded by Mr. Hill. Carried unanimously.
Mr. McLean showed all members the locations of the signs granted and the new appli-
cations on the map which Mr. Gotwald had made up. Mr. Gotwald had approved each
of the applications except No. 19 which was 550' from No. 18. Mr. Hill moved to
accept the applications as presented and checked by the Engineer, to wit:
No. 1 Meyer No. 18 3M
3 Meyer 19 Brede
6 Meyer 20 Brede
8 Meyer 21 3M
9 Meyer 22 3M
17 Western 24 Brede
nd to recommend to the Council that they accept all applications but No. 19 and
issue special use permits for each. Seconded by Mr. Rehbein and carried unanimously.
Mr. Glenn Rehbein requested that a sign permit be granted for him on the east side
of I35W where it dead ends Fourth Avenue. This will be Application No. 25. lair'.
Gotwald checked the location, found that there was nothing close by and saw no
reason not to grant a sign permit in that location.
W. McLean moved that we accept W. Rehbein's application for sign permit No. 25
to be located on the east side of I35W as described on the application and recommend
that the Council grant him a special use permit therefor. Motion seconded by Mr.
Hill. Carried unanimously.
Mr. McLean noted that the map showing the sign locations will be posted in the
Village Hall for future reference.
Are Cecil LaMotte brought before the Commission a preliminary proposal for LaMotte's
Third Addition. Mr. LaMotte stated that he did not move the park area, as had
been requested at the lest P&Z, on the advice of the Council and the Attorney.
Mr. Gotwald noted that it was extremely difficult, if not impossible, to change a
plat after it had been filed.
There was discussion on the turnaround in Lot 1, Block 2, adjacent to the 50' road
easement for the proposed County road from the Park out to Centerville Road. W.
Gotwald suggested that a "T- shaped" back -up on the easement be used rather than
the turnaround because his own private drainage ditch follows the roadway. W.
LaMotte commented that County Commissioner Burman and Engineer Redipennig had
looked at the road some three months ago but the County has not accepted this road
yet. He will leave the easement for the County in case the road comes through.
It seems they are still planning on it.
lb. McLean asked if he would post street bond for the road and was told "yes ".
41, Mr. LaMotte noted that the road in the Second Addition would be blacktopped by
July lst and that it should lay one year before being used.
Mr. Glenn Rehbein made a motion to recommend to the Council that they set a hearing
for acceptance of Cecil LeMotte's preliminary plat of Third Addition. Seconded by
Ar. Husnik. Carried unanimously. The plat was referred to Mr. Gotwald for study.
2-
Mr. Husnik and Mr. Karth said they hadn't had time to study the new Minnesota
Plumbing Code. Mr. McLean said this would be taken up at the next meeting on May 20.
Mr. John McLean stated that he had delivered copies of the Blaine and Coon Rapids
ordinances regarding contractor's licenses, construction fees, etc. Mr. Husnik
stated that he felt that all the Villages had about the same ordinances on this.
Mr. Husnik also stated that we cannot require electricians or plumbers to have
municipal licenses. W. Rehbein replied that both the electricians and plumbers
are required to be licensed in the Coon Rapids ordinance. It was decided to take
the matter under advisement until the next meeting. Mr. Rehbein and Mr. Hill were
appointed to have a report on it at that time.
The hearing for Mr. Gilbert Menkveld on his proposed mobile home park was opened at
8:30 p.m. Mr. Locher read the affidavit of publication for the notice of hearing
on proposed Ordinance 6S. He also read the affidavit of posting and notice of the
special use permit, as well as the mailing notice. W. Locher noted that different
parcels were held under different names, although owned by the same persons. He
Stated that the notices were in order and should be filed with the Clerk.
tvr. Joe Summers, Attorney for W. Menkveld, presented a mockup of the individual
park units. He stated that the parcel contained 119 acres immediately west and
southwest of the Youth Center down to 35W. A total of 571 mobile home units were
planned for a density of 4.8 units per acre. This was fewer than allowed under
Village ordinances. Mr. Summers requested variances from our ordinances to present_
a better plan:
1) Whereas the Village Ordinance requires that the trailer units be set at
10o
angles to the streets in a military-barracks type of arrangement which is
unattractive, too regimented, inefficient and breaks up the green space, they
would like to use a series of modules containing cul-de -sacs with the units clus-
tered around having the following advantages- -
a. that the trailers do not face on heavy travelled streets but on a
cul-de -sac with light traffic
b. a concentrated area of green space is produced by putting two units
close together, thus giving bigger front lawns.
2) Whereas the Village Ordinance requires fixed lot dimensions of 60' x 100',
producing an area of 6,000 sq. ft., though they would have no problem meeting this,
they would like smaller lots, particularly on the corner lots. As long as the
density was less than required by our ordinance, it would not be necessary to stick
to strict lot size dimensions.
3) Whereas Village Ordinance requires 20' setback from the street, they would
like to put their units within 10' of the street on the cul-de -sacs.
4) Whereas the Village Ordinance requires cement sidewalks along all streets,
they felt that green walkways between the parcels would be better and would aceomo-
date places where people were more likely to walk.
5) Whereas the Ordinance requires 30' streets, they request a variance to
permit 24' streets in the cul -de -sacs but collector streets would be 30'.
6) Although the Village Ordinance requires 2% land area to be dedicated to
recreation areas, they have dedicated 15% to recreation areas besides the space
between the modules.
3-
7) Whereas the Village Ordinance requires 1, 3 1/2" shade tree on each lot,
they would like to put in 2 or 3, 2 1/2" trees on each lot at approximately the
same landscaping costs.
Mr. Summers proceeded to give the alternatives for sewage disposal; namely:
1) Use of an on -sight temporary disposal plant similar to that of the Youth
Center to be placed as close as possible to the point where hook up would be made
to the municipal sewer.
2) Pumping to an established line, e.g., North Suburban Sanitary Sewer Dist.
3) Work with Lino Lakes to connect with a Village sanitary sewage system.
Suburban Engineering would work with our Village Engineer on this.
They felt this was a breakthrough in concept design and they would be building
something attractive which will be a credit to Lino Lakes.
The session was thrown open to questions by Mr. Summers which were mainly answered
by Mr. Bill Meyers of Suburban Engineering.
Mr. McLean asked what the square feet of the lots would be and was told the average
would be 5,500 sq. ft. with the lots ranging from 5,000 sq. ft. to 6,000 sq. ft.,
not including the walkways. There would also be parking in the center of the cul-
de-sacs. Mr. McLean also asked what was included in the 15% park dedication and
was told that it was the green area as shown on the drawing. He asked if park
equipment would be furnished by the park owners and was told yes. Mr. Glenn
Rehbein asked if it was feasible for snow removal with the narrow streets in the
cul-de -sacs. He was told the park owners would have their own snow removal equip-
ment and they would store it back further, even on the lots, and keep ahead of the
snow. This was questioned by Mr. Karth who was told that in an extreme case the
snow would be trucked out.
Mr. Hill asked if the 5,500 sq. ft. included parking. Mr. Meyers stated that on the
small lots it would include the parking area as far out as the curb. Mr. McLean
asked how close the trailers were to the back line and was told that each pair of
trailers would be 6' from the line and 12' apart. Mr. McLean stated that this
would be another variance to the ordinance. Mr. Hill asked what the length of
the trailers as drawn in would be and was told that it would accommodate 14' x
16' units but not double or 24' wide trailers. Mr. Hill also asked how close the
trailers would be where the adjacent modules come together and was told 20'. Mr.
McLean asked how they proposed to handle 24' wide trailers and was told that this
design would preclude the use of double wide trailers. A separate area would have
to be set apart for this type.
Mr. McLean asked about the lighting arrangement and was told that the street light-
ing would be a globe type with soft lighting but there would be sufficient light
on the street intersections to prevent any hazards. The question was raised
about laundry facilities. The plans showed a central laundry in the office area.
Upon being asked about having only one laundry for 571 units, Mr. Meyers stated
that specific plans had not been made for this but there would be sufficient
facilities for all. Mr. Rehbein asked if the value of the park had been tabulated
and was told "no" because there is a lot of engineering construction work left.
4-
There was discussion on the grade and level of the land (drainage will go down on
the east side of the court to 74th Street and will go into the Rice Creek chain)
as well as handling the flash flood waters. Mr. Meyers stated that they would try
to utilize the land as it is as well as utilizing the present large trees, if
possible. They will do studies on the drainage.
W. McLean asked about provisions for the water system. There were two possibili-
ties; connecting into a municipal system or an interval private system to connect
to the municipal system later. There will be fire hydrants within 300 to 325' of
all mobile home units. They have not yet looked into contracting for fire service.
W. McLean asked what they proposed the population impact would be on the school
district. W. Menkveld stated they didn't have any figures yet, but it isn't
expected the park will build up very fast.
W. Van Housen was asked for his comments and he stated that he was not totally
negative on their concept. They had some good ideas, although they are different
than normal. He felt we could grant some of the variances but not all of them.
W. Van Housen asked if the roads off Lilac Street would be private or public.
W. Meyers stated that 74th Street across the court would be a dedicated street
and the service road along 35W would be dedicated. The rest would be privately
built and privately maintained. Mr. Van Housen stated that it would be okay to
grant the 24' cul-de-sac roads but he doesn't like parking in the center; this
should be a landscaped area. Also he thought their ideas for sidewalks were
acceptable. W. Van Housen stated that 500 trailers would produce 1,000 adults
plus approximately 1 child per trailer, amounting to 1,500 persons using these
facilities. He noted that approximately 10 acres was provided for recreation but
no provisions for facilities. W. Van Housen took exception to the long lots es
indicated on the drawings and thought that they might prevent free moving traffic
on the collector streets.
Slides were shown of the area in which the park was to be located for orientation
purposes.
W. Van Housen did state that the over - riding problems were sewer and water and
that the proposed project had a challenging concept and that he bad no major
objections to it.
Mr. Gotwald was asked for his comments. He said that he had understood the utility
layouts showed that the flow would go to the south and west whereas the sewer
studies which his firm did in 1961, 1965 and later, showed that the sewer drain-
age would be going south and east; also that the sewer line would go down Fourth
Avenue and under I -35W at that point. If we go along with Suburban's layout, it
would mean two crossing of the freeway.
There was discussion of the capacity for Lino Lakes in the NSSSD hook -up on 101st
Lane in Blaine. W. Meyers stated that if they made a temporary arrangement to
use that line, they would use a small lift station on 104th. Upon questioning,
W. Meyers stated that a force main would cost the same as a treatment plant or
about $100,000.00; that a municipal line would cost about $150,000.00. They have
not looked at the operating cost. W. Gotwald stated that it was not a good idea
to cross I -35W twice and that a private concern could not contract with NSSSD.
W. Gotwald felt that a proposed court would have to go with a Village system.
He stated that the Pollution Control Agency wanted no permanent treatment plants.
W. Van Housen commented that the State Building Code does not permit a private
sewer system for a multi- family housing development. W. Gotwald stated that all
plans must be given to PCA and that they would not look favorably on a treatment
plant for a trailer court unless it were a temporary plant to be taken over by
5..
the Village. There was discussion on a perculation pond as a temporary measure. Mr. Summers stated that it was not feasible for them to go ahead and get involved
with engineering problems until there is an indication of approval from us. Mr.
Van Housen mentioned that under Ordinance 21C, plans should be well designed and
worked out before presentation to the P&Z and Council. He recommended that no
hearings be held unless this was done.
There was considerable discussion on the impact of 500 trailers on the school
district and taxes. Mr. McKean read a letter from Mr. Hankerson, Superintendent
of School Dist. #12, giving statistics showing the breakdown of mobile home taxes
as distributed to schools, etc.
Mr. Karth and Mrs. Chrystal Abiman discussed trailer owners buying homes and the
ratio of children in trailers compared to single family housing. Mr. Rehbein
mentioned that 500 trailers won't help our tax base -- the bigger the trailer, the
larger the family. Mbr. Joe Summers stated that if taxes are more important to
Lino Lakes—forget it. Planning & Zoning members felt taxes are more important
to the persons who have to pay them. Mr. Hill stated that with the possibility
of the metropolitan airport coming, Lino Lakes couldn't take anything like this
trailer court as it would be too much indebtedness for our 750 dwellings to absorb
and would overextend our tax base.
At this point, Mr. McLean recapped the important points mentioned in the hearing.
He felt we were now in a position to make a motion; choice of acception, rejection,
or tabling for future reference of the Engineer and Planner to study.
Mr. Husnik moved to table the matter so that we could meet with the Planner and
the Engineer. Mr. Karth seconded this motion. There was discussion on this.
Mr. Locher stated that the Council could continue their hearings based on the
lack of a recommendation by the Planning & Zoning. They could make a decision or
continue the matter, but they would have to take some action to preserve the
notices.
Mr. McLean asked Mr. Gotwald how long it would take to make a feasibility study.
Mr. Gotwald felt it was unnecessary since sewer studies bad been made and the
Lakeview area was the key in this matter. There had been no request for sewer.
The line would cost about $660,000.00. There were no technical problems and the
proposed mobile home court line could be turned around. If they used a force
main, it would be pretty expensive -- 2 1/2 miles of line, a big lift station and
a 30" line under the freeway.
Mr. Van Housen was concerned with the number of variances. It was unusual to ask
for so many, but they had some good ideas. If we table the matter because of not
wanting to make a decision, the Village shouldn't do this work as the cost should
be borne by the developer. He further stated if we feel we will deny it anyhow,
make the decision now.
Mr. Husnik retracted his previous motion and moved to recommend to the Council
that they deny the issuance of a special use permit for the trailer court and
the request for rezoning to commercial by Mr. Gilbert Menkveld based on the over-
crowding of the schools, the rapid boom in population, lack of sewer, no definite
plans for facilities, and the large number of variances requested. Motion
seconded by Mr. Rehbein. Carried unanimously.
Mr. Summers stated that it had been their pleasure. The hearing closed at
10:08 p.m.
6-
the hearing on the preliminary plat for Chamonix East (Outlot G), U. S. Lakes
Addition #2 was called to order at 10:10 p.m. Mr. Locher read notices and affida-
vits of mailing, posting and publication. He stated that all notices complied with
the statutes; also that the plat of Lakes Addn. #2 had been signed prior to the
public notice.
Mr. Bill Jensen of Suburban Engineering presented a large map showing the entire
layout of their controlled lands around Reshanau Lake. He mentioned that Outlot G
surrounds the 14th and 15th holes of the golf course. He reiterated the previous
action taken on the plat and gave statistics on the proposed plat; namely, it con-
sists of 14.7 acres with 109 townhouse units similar to the existing models with a
density of 7.4 units per acre. The project would have an internal street system
privately built and maintained by the townhouse unit association. Recreation areas
are planned for preschoolers and a pool for older people. Off street parking is
provided.
Mr. Jensen stated that the entire area will not be platted as one package but will °
consist of several plats as numbered on the drawing. They would like us to accept
the entire proposal as a proposed plat and they would then come in with record
plats one at a time. The first addition will be the 24 lots on the southeast corer
of the project. Part of the reason for making separate plats of modest size is
because the projection of the mixture of building styles is very difficult to do.
Mr. Jensen then asked for questions relative to the proposed plat. He stated that
proposed plats had been submitted to the Planner and Engineer. Mr. Van Housen
mentioned that the density ,+as within our requirements, that it is less than 10
units per acre, whereas FHA allows 12 to 14 units per acre for townhouses.
Mr. Jensen stated regarding park dedication that a credit from Lakes Addn. #2 had
been given to the Village. Mr. Van Housen stated that he and the Engineer had
proposed some more desirable solutions to the park question than several small parks
from each plat. Mr. Van Housen stated that he had received the revised plans for
Chamonix East only yesterday and had a couple of questions:
1) He questioned whether there was room for any emergency vehicle such as a
fire truck to turn around on the dead ends. Mr. Jensen felt there was
no problem with any emergency vehicle other than a fire truck. The fire
hydrants as proposed were situated so that there was adequate coverage for
all units.
2. Mr. Van Housen suggested a change in the sidewalks as shown along the golf
course. He suggested that a pedestrian spine sidewalk to run between the
units be used. He felt no need to have sidewalks along the golf course,
forcing people to walk there since if anyone wished to, they could use
the grass.
3. He suggested that the tot lot be moved away from the golf course and closer
to the pool on the east side.
Mr. Van Housen felt that they should cater to a greater degree of privacy; also
that his suggested changes would give more vitality to the project. Mir. Jensen
stated that Mr. Van Housen's comments could be accepted. There was a certain logic
in a central walkway. They would like some time to examine his suggestions. Mr.
Van Housen stated again that walkways are incongruous to a golf course.
7-
Mr. Van Housen showed several slides of Reshanau Lake and the surrounding area for
orientation purposes. He suggested that park land be set aside on the south end
of Reshanau Lake, especially after the realignment of Birch Street. Mr. Van Housen
felt it was a good idea to have a park near a county road. He stated that combine.
ing the acreage donation from Lakes Addn. #1 and #2 would give a good sized park
and that the public would have visual access to the lake.
Mr. Gotwald stated that he had examined the plans and that the street grades
fulfilled all Village requirements. The storm water would be taken care of by a
catch basin and underground lines and would be drained out to the lake or a swamp.;
Mr. Gotwald stated that they are at present working on the plans for sanitary sewer
and water for Lakes Addition. W. Jensen stated that they would be grading the
roadway soon and that staking was completed.
Mr. Van Housen stated that not receiving this type of complete preliminary plans
in sufficient time to study them prior to the hearings was why he had asked the
Village not to approve any preliminary plats and this was why Ordinance 21C was
passed. Mr. McLean mentioned that we had required the submission of these plans
by Jandric, although Ordinance 210 had not been passed at that time.
Mr. Van Housen stated that the plat was all okay other than his previous comments.
He suggested that we approve the preliminary plat subject to approval of the
Planner and the Engineer on these comments.
Upon questioning, Mr. Jensen stated that the private streets would be 24' bitumin-
ous streets. Mr. Van Housen noted that there was room for two cars per unit and
if they backed up on private streets it was okay-because it was not our responsi-
bility. He thought they would have snow removal problems. There was discussion
on a home owner's association for the townhouses. Mr. Van Housen felt that town-
house owners could get snow out faster than Village equipment. Mr. Gotwald noted
that it would be cheaper too. Mr. Van Housen stated that if the Village were asked
in the future to take over the maintenance of these private streets, that they
would not comply with our street ordinance and it would not be necessary for the
Village to accept them.
Mr. Hill asked about recreation areas for people besides the tots and older persons,
namely children and teenagers. Mr. Van Housen felt that there was enough green
area shown to be used for recreation; one reason we require the park dedication
is to provide space for organized play. There was some discussion on this.
Mr. Rehbein asked how fast this project would be developed. Mr. Jensen stated
that they are going right ahead and selling now, that they are behind in process-
ing sales in the First Addition and plan on having houses ready in the Second
Addition this summer.
The question of sewage disposal was discussed. Mr. Jensen stated that the time-
tables would have to correspond for the houses and the sewage plant. Mr. Gotwald
stated that there may perhaps be a delay in the sewage plant but that they can go
ahead and put the sewage system in the streets. He felt it was possible for just
a few homes to collect the sewage system in the streets. He felt it was possible
for just a few homes to collect the sewage in a tank system or have it dumped in
a leaching pond while they are working on the plant system. Mr. Gotwald noted
that a sewage plant doesn't work until a certain amount of sewage is reached.
There should be no temporary cesspools and septic systems. Mr. Gotwald reiterated
what the Council had done previously on this sewage system; mentioning that PCA
8-
had given approval to a temporary plan. They are making cost comparisons between
a sewage plant and a trunk line. It is possible that Metro Council may bring the
line before a plant is finished. Mr. Gotwald has finished working out the cost of
the plant and will be ready to meet with the Metro Sewer Board within a week.
The salesman for Jandrie stated that the models have been very well accepted; that
they were very pleased with the public response considering the current national
situation. They had not yet held their grand opening, but are still feeling their
way in the market. They had no bad problems but would have liked to have seen more
snow this winter. Mr. Gotwald commented that the lake was 2' higher than at freeze
up time; that the dredged area had filled in with water. He feels that the condi-
tions may straighten themselves out.
Mr. Hill moved to recommend to the Council that they accept the preliminary plat
of Chamonix East after it has been revised according to the recommendations made
by Mr. Van Housen and Mr. Gotwald. Seconded by Mr. Husnik. Carried unanimously.
Mr. Van Housen stated that we will keep one map for the Building Inspector to use
for the occupancy part of the ordinance after action by the Council.
Mr. Jensen asked if the recommendations made were mandatory. Mr. McLean stated
no ", that this was a general thing.
A motion to adjourn was made by Mr. Karth and seconded by W. Hill at 11:01. Al].
noted aye.