HomeMy WebLinkAbout05/24/1972 P&Z MinutesMAY 24, 1972
A special meeting of the Lino Lakes Planning and Zoning Board was called to
order on May 24, 1972, at 8:10 P.M.. Members present were: Mr. Nadeau, Mr.
McLean, Mr. Shearen, Mr. KelIinq and Mr. Kerth; absent: Mr. Hill and Mr. Win -
iecki. The purpose of this meeting was to discuss with builders and interested
citizens the zoning code as it relates to minimum square footage of sdwelling
units in the Village, and then to make recommendations to the Council.
U. S. Lakes made a request for variance earlier in the year to lower square
footage requirements for townhouses. it was felt that all square footages
should be looked at at this time. Recommendations were presented to the Council
from the March 29th meeting.
Mobile homes were not dealt with.
Clyde Rehbein suggested the following square footages:
1000 square feet for a single family dwelling, less 50 square feet for
attached garage, less 50 square feet if 2 bedrooms instead of 3.
2 story - 900 square feet - 700 if double attached garage.
90 square ft. minimum on bedrooms.
Crystal Ahlman presented a pamphlet entitled "Montreal Court Apartments ". She
noted that these are lovely apartments and of a very good size. She certainly
didn't want the square foot allowance lowered. Villagers have a right to de-
cent size homes.
Roy Stanley felt that split entry homes should have a different allowance (less)
than ramblers. He suggested that a 26'x34' split entry would be 884 sq. ft. on
the main floor. There would be more living space in this than in a 1200 ft.
rambler.
Bill Busch, U. S. Lakes attorney, went along with Mr. Stan
thinking was very sensible. He presneted a brochure entit
Brochure" put out by Jandric. He noted that they have one
sq. ft. minimum bedroom. He urged the Village to hold off
minimum until the Attorney General announces the State min
recommend 90 sq. ft., tine State will preempt it anyway.
ley. He said his
fed "County Creek
project with a 95
acting on this
imums. He said if we
Mary Gould said that she is silting her 3 bedroom, 26'x42' home because it is
too small for the two of them. She has looked into different communities, and
most have much stricter requirements than we do. In fact, many areas require
the purchase of 5 acres.
Bill Busch pointed out that there is a descrepancy in our ordinance as it re-
lates to 2 bedroom townhouses. In one niece on the chart it says 1200 and in
anohher place it says 1175.
Clyde Rehbein wanted to know why it is necessary now to change our code. What
is the problem? Mr. McLean pointed out that we have reviewed surrounding
villages as to the trends. The trend appears to be to larger, nicer homes.
Mrs. Swanson said we must do something to Increase our tax base. We must en-
courage builders to build bigger and better homes. Last year we were number
two in the state in assessments, this year we are third. If we don't up these
requirements, we'll be first.
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Clyde Rehbein felt that the square footage doesn't give you the tax base. A
3 bedroom home is becoming rarer. Two bedrooms and a garage does more to im-
prove the tax base.
Mrs. Sarner explained how she goes about assessing. She starts with the square
footage of the house and assesses according to rates she has from the County.
There are 9 different ranges of prices to put them in. "Things" and finished
lower levels are extra. For example, if you took a basic 960 sq. ft. rambler
with double garage, but nothing else, the market value would be $18,860. A
1,000 sq. ft. rambler without garage would be $17,080. Split levels are fig-
ured on square footage of the first and second levels. Split foyers are asse-
ssed on the outside dimensions. A finished lower level is assessed differently.
A split foyer is assessed about 10" more overal than the same square footage on
a rambler. You actually must see a building and what it is. Each one is dif-
ferent. You can not out a percentage figure on the basic square footage as it
relates to the final assessment.
Bill Busch pointed out that our high tax base is due to the schools, not the
homes.
Mr. Menkveld said the square footage is stilt the main criteria for assessment.
The smaller the home, the less tax base. He noted that if we allow 960 sq. ft.
homes we'll get 235 government housing in our Village.
Mary Gould noted that small homes give us more young children and thus an in-
crease oin the school base.
Clyde Rehbein said that the 'lending agencies put hggher standards on homes than
the villages.
Mrs. Swanson felt it was unfair that a developer could come in and tell the
community what to do. We ought to go slow like Roseville did in setting our
standards.
Mr. Marier reviewed to the P& Z Board that we started looking at these recom-
mendations two months ago. We came up with some good answers. We can't deal
with one or two individuals - if we do we are letting down the people of Lino
Lakes.
Single Family
Mr. Kelling moved to recommend to the Council 1,000 sq. ft. minimums on 1 story,
l story and split entrys. Seconded by Mr. Nadeau.
Mr. Karth felt that a split foyer should be set at a lower minimum or we'll
have homes all the same. Mr. Menkveld said they had felt the same way in one
village, but found it didn't hold true.
The vote didn't carry: 3 no; 2 aye.
4r. Nadeau suggested attaching a garage recommendation to the motion. The
concensus was that we would then have to raise the minumums to allow for garages.
The builders said that very few homes are built around here without garages.
Also, it is only slightly more cost -wise to build a double garage than a single.
Therefore, they didn't feel it was necessary to deal with this in a recommenda-
tion.
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Mr. Shearen moved to recommend to the Council the following outside diameter
square foot minimums:
Rambler t000 sq. ft.
Ik story & split level - 1000 sq. ft.
split foyer - 960 sq. ft.
2 story - 850 sq. ft. on first floor.
Seconded by Mr. Karth. Carried unanimously.
Duplex - R2
Mr. Kelling moved to recommend duplexes be left at 1,000 sq. ft. per our pre-
vious recommendation. Seconded by Mr. Nadeau. Carried unanimously.
Apartments
After general discussion Mr. Shearen moved to recommend square footages for
apartment living areas be left the same as our March 29th recommendation:
4 bedroom 1160 sq. ft.
3 bedroom - 1040 sq. ft.
2 bedroom - 920 sq. ft.
1 bedroom - 800 sq. ft.
efficiency - 680 sq. ft.
Seconded by Mr. Kelling. Carried unanimously.
Townhouses
Mrs. Sarner noted that she drew up the plans of Chamonix and the County did the
assessing on them.
Mr. Katth moved to recommend to the Council that square footages for townhouses
be as follows:
4 bedroom
3 bedroom
2 bedroom
1425 sq. ft.
1300 sq. ft.
1175 sq. ft.
Seconded by Mr. Shearen. Carried unanimously.
Mr. Karth moved to recommend that townhouses in the previous motion take in
quadriminiums and condominiums. Seconded by Mr. Nadeau. Carried unanimously.
Planned Unit Developments
Mr. Karth moved to recommend to the Council that square footages for PUDs be
as follows:
1 bedroom and efficiency - 700 sq. ft.
2 bedroom - 1175 sq. ft.
3 bedroom - 1300 sq. ft.
4 bedroom 1425 sq. ft.
Seconded by Mr. Shearen. Carried unanimously.
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Basementless Homes
Mr. Kelling moved to recommend that in regard to single family dwelling base -
mentless homes, an additional minimum area of 100 sq. ft. be required to house
utilities. Also, that in regard to basementless duplexes, 100 sq. ft. addition-
al be required for each living unit.
Seconded by Mr. Karth. Carried unanimously.
Minimum ceiling heights
Bill Busch suggested holding off on this to see what the State code, which
comes out July 1st, will say about it. Code now says 7'6" and 7'. Clyde Reh-
bein felt it wasn't necessary to stipulate ceiling heights because it is only
economical to build 8 ft. ceilings.
Mr. Shearen moved to recommend minimum ceiling heights for the main floor of
8 ft. and upper floors 7'6 ". Seconded by Mr. Karth. Carried unanimously.
Mr. Nadeau moved to recommend that ceiling heights in all basements be a mini-
mum of 7'6" exclusive of hallways, bathrooms and storage areas. Seconded by
Mr. Karth. Carried by a vote of 3 to 2.
There was general discussion relating to ceiling heights. Jim Husnik said GI
and FHA only require 7 ft. ceilings.
Minimum sqr ft. liveable areas, except baths, kitchens or utility rooms.
It was noted that this too could be affected by the mandatory state code and
that it would not change our tax base.
Mr. Shearen moved to table the minimum square footage of liveable areas until
the state code is mandatory. Seconded by Mr. McLean. Carried unanimously.
GarAges
The question was whether garages should be mandatory. The builders said most
homes have them, but we shouldn't make it mandatory. Some individuals can
build them cheaper later on themselves.
Mrs. Gould pointed out that they can not be attached later on and our area
needs cars. We have no buses, etc.
Mr. Nadeau moved to recommend that it be comnlusory that all dwellings have
attached one double garage per unit.
No second. Motion died.
Mr. Keliing moved to adjourn at 10:40 P.M. Seconded by Mr. Shearen. Carried
unanimously.