HomeMy WebLinkAbout10/11/1972 P&Z MinutesIII+ A special meeting of the Lino Lakes Planning and Zoning Board was
called to order at 8 :15 P.M. on October 11, 1972 by Chairman NeLean.
O Present were Misters Korth, Hill, ?errand and Shearen. Mr. Kelling
and Mr. Nadeau were absent. Mr. M€nrier was present as liasion to the
Council. Attorney Locher and Village Planner Van Housen were also in
attendance. The purpose of this special hearing was to get more input
from residents of Chamonix and U. S. Lakes regarding their request for
two variances to Ordinance #56.
Mr. Busch reviewed briefly U. S. Lake's request for variances. They
are requesting two: the first is a size variance on R 1 land - Outlot
G & I, and the second for permission to use Outlot G for R1 residences.
Mr. Busch further noted that R 5 permits R 1 usage with permission of
the Council. The 1970 plat shows Townhouses. This would result in the
plat being chenged to show R 1 lot sizes.
Mt. Van Housen said this would be a nonconforming land use operation,
although it is permitted. R 1 lots are in conformity. There would be
a problem in maintenance of this buffer zone area. He recommended
they come back with the entire plat R 1.
Mr. Locher stated a precticel difficulty - that of trying to adapt
single family size lot! tp townhouses. The land potential is not to
be taxed, just it's Rau
Mr. McLean read a letter from Mr. Vin Bowen dated October 5th, in
which he gave his recommendations regarding these plans. He noted:
1. Utilities plans have not been submitted with the plan.
2. Landscaping Pions have not been submitted with the plane
The architecture and site planning; on these dwelling units
leaves much to be desired and we could insist on a tree
planting program on each R 1 Site.
Lots 1, 2, 3, and 4 of Block 3 and Lots 1 and 2 of Block 5
adjacent to Outlot D and E should remain in the open
space, park or golf course as a continuation of the green
area across the road to the jest. As dram, it is a bad
vehicular curve or potentially dangerous curve since
the houses will visually obstruct a good traffic flag.
Golf tee and 15th Green are a poor hole as drawn.
Mr. Van Housen commented on this letter and further clarified his
recommendations.
Mr. McLean read a letter from Gecrge Ootwald, dated October llth, in
which he reviewed his on -site inspection, and offered certain facts
for consideration. The letter noted U. S. Lakes was in agreement with
the code regarding residential lots, streets, safety, utilities and
drainage.
There was general discussion concerning sewer and lateral and pump house
positions with Mr. Bill Meyer.
Mr. Hill asked if it has been fully established that the green areas be
dedicated as park area. Mr. Busch said yes, as applying toward it -
to keep the open space feel in the locality.
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Mr. McLean questioned if any study hes been made as to how a village
would maintain such an open area.
Bar. Busch reminded everyone of Mr. Jensen's discussion cf this open
space area at the last meeting. He said it would be turned over to
the Village in a landscaped manner. Shrubs or trees (which ever the
Village would prefer) would be planted, and 14 -16 "perennial grass
planted.
Mr. Van Housen reminded him that a landscape plan has not been submitted.
Mr. Meyer said the only marshy part would be the first green area in the
southeast oorner. Otherwise it is fairly sand and developable.
Larry Johnson, Lot 18, said he lives on what is supposed to be a golf
course lot and he has had a sump pump going all summer. He questioned
Jandric's legal and moral obligation to the residents. ':That's to
prevent them from eliminating the golf course next year.
Mr. McLean noted that we can't really get into moral factors. The
responsibility of the P&Z is to deal in mechanics.
Mr. Metier did feel that there was a certain moral obligation here,
inasmuch as we are a body looking out for the welfare of tax payers and
citizens.
Mr. Van Housen felt Mr. Johnson's question was well taken. He reminded
him that this will be a manicured area and could be developed nioely.
We can't develope a legal issue regarding Jandric's moral obligation.
Mr. Lombardi asked the P & Z to get a detailed layout of what they plan
to do with the buffer scne, should we decide to grant the variance.
He appealed to fairness. This will have an inpeot on what Lino Lakes
does in the future, as this area will be next in the Twin Cities to
develope.
Orville Berg asked the length of the back 9 of the golf course as it
now is in the plans as opposed to whet it was when they purchased. He
noted it doesn't look like a regulation golf course, end if it isn't,
it isn't worth putting in.
Mr. Busch said the golf course is 60% in. The shrinkage of 400 feet
still makes it a fit course.
Mr. Hill asked for the acreages on the green space.
Lakes are (north and to west)- ---2.3 acres
Outlot I ----- 5.8 acres
Outlot G 1.8 acres
Block 5 ----- .7 acres
Outlot 1. (east and south) ----- , 47 acres
Total approximately 13.8 acres
Mr. Busch once again mentioned ;fir. Jensen's comments at the last
meeting regarding the green space. The paths would be wood chips or
something like that. The open space idea has not been totally pro-
jected into next year.
Tree
4r. Hill felt we should ask for a total comprehensive plan as it
regarded whole area, including green spaces. Mr. Van Nousen noted
that we asked for a total plan about a year ago end all we got was
a block plan. Mr. Hill felt there was no real park area for kids -
they'll be in the street.
Mr. McLean advised everyone that this was not legal hearing because
it wasn't posted and published.
Mr. I1arier asked about the timinu on additional Laterals off of Lantern
and Bleck Duck, and how many feet of pipes will be necessary for t`u:
additional letcrals.
Mr. Bush said that as soon as they get approval they'll put the models
up. Possessions should b' next summer. There are 180 sites, but the
initial soles will be neer the existing pipes.
Mr, Marie:. noted that the Council passed on their Plan 2 and we have
money invea.4ed that we haven't gotten anything out of. Ivlr. Meyer
figured that the total feet of pipes needed would be about 7,000, at
about $4.00 to $5.00 per foot.
One resident asked what guarantee they have that there won't be loan
cost homes put in there. Mr. McLean and Mt, Locher told him there are
no cost requirements in the Village, just footage requirements. The
state code is set up to allow state housing anywhere in the state. Our
building code gives more protection.
Mr. Van Housen said he sew a like buffer none in California and it was
very nice, He did feel it should be fully dedicated. He didn't feel
the R5 should be left in existence, and that they delete those few
lots across from the park as he commented on in his letter. He also
noted that there is no way to keep pe,;ple out of a public park end this
is one reason for keeping it small and nonrecreational in scope. He
asked hew much land they owe us now for parks. He felt this should
probably be rejected until a total concept is presented.
Mr. Busch said #1 - as layout developed they said they would have a
lake access contributed to the village and #2 • park area is not
required for land not used for habitation (such as golf course).
Larry Johnson felt the residents should have a say so, they are
the ones who live there and it is intended for their use and they
are saying they do not went the buffer none.
One lady asked if there was no compromising plan.
Mr. Farrend made a recommendation based on his personal opinion. He
recommended that the Council reject the proposed platting change on
morel grounds as related to misrepresentation.
After discussion a second was celled for twice. There was none so
the motion is dead.
Mr. Shearen moved to recommend the Council table these variance appeals
until we receive more dnteiled plot plans as recommended by the Engineer
and Planner. They should submit plans regarding the total concept (5.03
and 5.05) and perk system as they plan to develop present and proposed
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areas. And that the zoning; be changed from R 5 to R 1.
Seconded by ?r. Hill, motion carried withal*. Farrand voting No, in
order to stand by the motion he made earlier.
Nlr. Busch felt that this recommendation is calling for things foreign
to the zoninL end variance code. He felt it asked for things they can
comply with as the engineer felt it was feasible, but water and sewer
is never done until afterwards. He didn't knot: hoer they could comply
with the request for total perks plan. He stated again he didn't know
how tbp developer could comply.
Mr. Van Houser, Bid there is enough concern on the park of residents
that we can look at this from this standpoint. Also Lakes hss not
ccrnpli et' with 5.03 c -i,d 05. This is the 3rd change on this plat.
Amy change now should be looked at in view of the total plan.
17-7. Hill raved to adjourn at 9:50 P. M. Seconded by i r. Shearen.
Carried.