HomeMy WebLinkAbout10/27/1993 P&Z Minutes•
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P & Z Work Session
10/27/93
CITY OF LINO LAKES
PLANNING & ZONING BOARD WORK SESSION MINUTES
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Chairman Schaps called the meeting to order at 6:35 and explained
that this is a special Planning & Zoning Board Work Session to
discuss a proposal from Gary Uhde to develop the Behm Farm and
adjoining properties to the west. The Planning & Zoning Board will
not be making any recommendations at this meeting.
Mr. John Johnson, representing Mr. Uhde, gave a brief presentation
and outlined the three options they have identified for the
property. The proposal has been reduced from 160 lots to a maximum
of 153. Option A would involve 153 lots with sewer extending west
and north to Carl Street, minimum wetland filling would be
required. Option B would involve 103 lots with sewer serving the
Behm Farm lots and construction on the lots west of the Farm as
they are currently platted. Major wetland fill would be required
and most likely allowed because the lots are individual lots of
record (on site septic systems would be required on the westerly
lots). Option C would provide for 103 lots, similar to Option B,
however, the existing lots would be realigned to provide for a
minimum of wetland filling (on site systems for the westerly lots).
Mr. Johnson further explained that they would propose five phases
of development with Phase one (1) beginning in 1994 on the eastern
portion of the Behm's Farm. 1995 would also involve the Behm Farm
with 1996 completing the Farm and the first cul de sac west in
Phase III. Phase IV would involve the area north of Lilac on
Laurie in 1997/98 with completion of Phase V being north of Thomas
Street in 1999.
Utilities would be extended from Fourth Avenue, easterly on Lilac,
north on Laurie and then along Thomas Avenue both east and west.
The trunk sewer line would be adequately sized to serve the entire
area for future connections. The cost for these services would be
paid entirely by the developer. Adjoining properties would not be
assessed unless they were interested in participating in the
improvement. Street improvements would also be paid by the
developer.
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• The options presented included 7 -10 lots with less than 10,800
square feet of upland. Mr. Schones asked what the developers
definition of "up- land" was. Mr. Johnson explained that "up- land"
meant that area outside of both the wetland and the ordinary high
water mark. Darrell Schneider explained that the RCWD has just
completed a study of the flood plain in this area and found that
the 100 year flood elevation is 900.5 which, according to Mr.
Johnson, corresponds to their estimated edge of the wetlands.
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Mr. Schones asked what it would cost the typical homeowner wishing
to connect to sewer in this area. City Engineer Schneider
explained that the residents in this area would pay a standard fee
based on the average sized lot in the development - for example
75' -80', even if their particular lot was 125' or more or less.
That fee would be roughly between $11,000 - $12,000. Mr. Schneider
further explained that the City would benefit from the extension of
utilities into this area because the developer would pay for the
construction but the trunk line would be sized to serve the entire
area. Future extensions to the north and south to serve existing
properties would be less costly because of this.
Planning Consultant Brixius reviewed some general planning
objectives for the Planning & Zoning Board to consider in regard to
this development. (Specific considerations are outlined in the
Planner's report dated October 12, 1993) Generally these
considerations included the long range plans for this area. The
City's 1987 Comprehensive Plan designates the subject site as
"expansion residential" and logical for the extension of utilities
before the year 2010. This expansion is anticipated to be market
driven. In addition, the City's Comprehensive Sewer Plan shows an
extension of sewer into this area. Past planning efforts have
identified this as an area that will be served by sewer. The P &Z
and CC need to determine if previous decisions regarding the area
are still valid. If the answer to that question is yes - then the
next question is timing.
The next item reviewed by Mr. Brixius involved Land Use
Compatibility. A portion of the area in question is Zoned Rural
with a current 10 acre lot minimum. Many of these lots are platted
at 2 1/2 acres. With the developer paying the way, there is an
opportunity to get sewer and water utilities extended into this
area. The City is aware of septic system failures in the vicinity
and this would be an opportunity to bring utilities closer to areas
where there is a potential for ground water pollution. The
ultimate solution to failing systems may be the extension of public
sewer - the City must evaluate how this may be implemented in the
future - with or without the proposed development.
COMMENTS FROM RESIDENTS:
Holly Hunt, 7786 Sunset thanked the P & Z for inviting the
residents to the work session. She expressed concern about high
density housing. With 2 - 6 acre parcels in the area Plan A did
not appear to be consistent with the area. They moved to the area
to get away from "postage stamp sized lots ". Although she
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indicated development in the area was inevitable, she asked the
City to adopt a policy of quality, not quantity.
Tom Mesich asked why she felt development was inevitable - Ms. Hunt
stated that she is aware the northern suburbs are expanding. In
response to another question by Mr. Mesich she indicated that they
have not had any problems with their septic system.
A resident asked if Options B and C would bring sewer to the larger
lots and Mr. Uhde replied - no it would not - those lots would most
likely have mound type septic system. Mr. Uhde added that he did
not feel on -site systems were the best alternative and added that
in the long run probably not the most cost effective option either.
Mr. Jim Balboa of 4th Avenue and Thomas indicated that the original
concerns expressed when the proposal was first reviewed still
stand. The proposed development is inconsistent with the
surrounding area. We live out here for the openness.
Another resident asked if there was a formula to determine the cost
to connect to sewer and water for the larger lots. Darrell
Schneider explained that there was a formula based on the area and
footage. However, he further explained that if a property owner
was only connecting his existing house and not planning to
subdivide that the cost would be between $11,000- $12,000 depending
on the average sized lot in the proposed development (this would
apply even if the property were a larger piece, at least until such
time as they would wish to subdivide further).
A resident asked if Carl Street would be part of this plan and
expressed concern about development continuing to the north. Mr.
Johnson explained that Carl Street was not a part of this proposal.
Chairman Schaps further explained that no one could answer at this
time whether development would continue to the north. It remains
to be seen!
Mr. Uhde advised the audience that the approximate cost of a mound
septic system is between $7- 8,000, a well between $2- 3,000. On-
site systems are not fool proof - they do fail. The cost is about
the same for City sewer and water and it will last forever.
Therefore, there is a positive side to City utilities. Mr. Mesich
pointed out that there is a monthly bill of approximately $30 for
City sewer and water. Mr. Landers asked how many people in the
audience had failing septic systems. No one responded. However,
the comment was made that "who would want to say yes and then have
the City force some correction! ?"
A resident at 7744 Sunset stated that he had been told the soils in
the area were not good for septic systems. Mr. Uhde added that if
Options B or C are approved they would be proposing mound systems
for that very reason.
Tom Mesich asked about the commercial development along Fourth
Avenue. Darrell Schneider replied that Accu -Tool, Kosner- Gertz,
and the Correctional Facility are all interested in having public
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utilities extended to serve their properties. In fact, Kosner-
Gertz has already voluntarily paid a water assessment and water is
not available yet.
There were no additional comments from the public.
Chairman Schaps thanks all for attending the work session and again
advised them that there would be no decision at this time. If the
developer decides to pursue the development there will be a public
hearing - most likely in December. Anyone not formally notified
was encouraged to advise staff.
The meeting was adjourned at 7:50 P.M.