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HomeMy WebLinkAbout05/15/1985 Council Minutes1 1 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING May 15, 1985 A Special Council meeting of the Lino Lakes City Council was called to order by Mayor Benson at 7:03 P.M. Council members present: Bohjanen, Reinert, Marier. Members absent: Kulaszewicz. City Engineer, John Davidson and Thomas Prews and Clerk - Treasurer Mar- ilyn Anderson were also present. Representatives present from Rice Creek Watershed District: Jerry Sande, Andrew Cardinal; RCWD Engineer, Peter Willenbring. Represent- ative present from Anoka County: County Commissioner, Margaret Langfeld, County Engineer, Paul Ruud. Mayor Benson explained the purpose of this Special Meeting was to discuss the area of Main Street and 4th Avenue as it relates to area drainage and the operation of county ditches. He explained as the Council started to address the problems last year it became apparent that there could be joint efforts to coordinate this pro- ject with Anoka County and RCWD. Several questions have arisen at Council level that would affect this project and it was felt that this type of a meeting would best answer all the questions. Mayor Benson wanted to keep the meeting informal and asked that this be a time to put things together so that there is no over- lapping of any work and did not want to make statements that the Council is not sure of. Mr. Davison used an overhead map to outline the area under dis- cussion and pointed out the drainage problems between Sunset Ave. and Lake Drive and just north of Main Street to Lilac Street. County ditches were outlined in red. Mr. Davison explained he has had contact with Mr. Ruud regarding the improvement of this area. The County has plans to upgrade Main Street from 4th Avenue east to 35W in 1986. 4th Avenue has been designated as a City municipal state aid road and MSA funds can be expended for upgrading and drainage correction. In the upgrading of Main Street, County state aid funds can be ex- pended for twice the area covered by the County state aid roadway easement. However, funds from municipal state aid and county state aid may not be adequate for funding the full management program of the outlined watershed area. Mr. Davidson outlined his think- ing in upgrading this area; upgrading 4th Avenue to a rural st- reet design section, 24' blacktop, two 10' gravel shoulders, grad- ing ditches on both sides of 4th Avenue away from the street, when area becomes more developed there will be the availability to in- stall storm sewers. Mr. Davidson explained the county ditches have not been maintained and the drainage from north of Main Street has no place to drain. He further explained that Sherwood Green was platted and the plat 193 194 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING May 15, 1985 Page -2- provided for holding ponds with an outlet across 4th Avenue to the west. When it came time for the developer to complete his ponding and drainage Mr. Davidson advised the Council that it may not be wise to complete this until there was some provision for the water once it was ditched across 4th Avenue. He was concerned there would be problems with private property on the west of 4th Avenue. A temporary drainage easement has been obtained from Mr. LeBlond but part of this agreement was the City would develope a drainage management plan within two years. This discussion tonight is to determine time frames that the County would be looking for improving Main Street, Mr. Davidson would like to move ahead with development of municipal state aid plans so that this City could use municipal state aid funds for acquiring nec- essary right of way for the full ditch section rural system, est- ablishing positive drainage outlets, ask RCWD for help to improve the ditch systems to the point where there will be a permanent outlet facility also that the City be allowed to use MSA funds for ditch cleaning, be allowed to improve the ditches under some kind of a MSA program. Because the City has tributary areas beyond the corporate boundaries west and north, it would be advisable to go into some sort of a watershed project and how would this be acc- omplished. He asked for ideas from RCWD as it relates to the _ overall management of ditches and what the county is going to build into their Main Street systems and how it will affect the Lino Lakes drainage systems, what schedule can the City plan on. Mr. Ruud explained the reconstruction of Main Street from 4th Avenue to 35 W is scheduled for 1986. The survey is completed and they are now working on plans. The county recognizes the drain- age problem in this area and the county policy is that the County tries where possible to share with the local municipality in solv- ing drainage problems. Generally the portion funded by the county is a portion of the total area that is benefited by the improvement. The county takes the area of their right of way and doubles it. If they have an acre of right of way they double this in terms of assessments. If there was a proposal to the solution of the drain- age problem he would take it to the highway committee (both he and Mrs. Langfeld are members of this committee) and the County Board for their consideration. He would look forward to having some outlets available for the storm water along south county Road #14 to help them implement the project and would consider paying their share of the cost of the program. Mayor Benson explained one of the problems is the county ditches have now filled in with silt and other debris making it difficult for them to handle run -off. Something has to be done to clean the ditches and he asked Mr. Ruud who is responsible for this project. 1 1 1 1 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING May 15, 1985 Page -3- Mr. Rudd explained that when the watershed districts were formed the County Board of Commissioners turned over the jurisdiction of all county ditches to the watershed boards of managers. The county is out of the ditch problem. In areas where there is no watershed district the county does nothing until a petition is received, hearings are held and the cost of the repair is assessed back to the benefited property owners. Mr. Reinert asked what does the county do when improperly funct- ioning ditches affect the county highways? Mr. Ruud said in most areas improperly functioning ditches have not had much impact. He referred to Birch Street. In the Coon Creek Watershed area this has been a problem and this has caused controversy. The county works with the watershed district to implement the county program with what is available. Now projects are becoming tougher. Mr. Reinert said it appears the county and the watershed districts are passing the buck back and forth between each other. Mr. *Ruud said the county will work with both the city and watershed district and the county share of the costs are not just the cost of dtiches in the right of way but sharing in some of the costs of the outlets that have to be provided. Mayor Benson explained this problem is multiplied because of the area that is affected and because of all the government agencies that are affected. This meeting was called because of this pro- blem to understand what direction should be taken. In this way there will be no duplication of monies spent. Mr. Reinert suggested this could be a pilot project to see how everyone can jointly work together and solve the problem. Lets move forward with a positive approach and see what happens. Mr. Chuck Nelson asked when Mr. Ruud and Mr. Davidson reviewed the situation on 4th Avenue last fall what was resolved. Mr. Ruud said the temporary outlet through LeBlonds property was proposed but nothing permanent. He explained the plans are not far enough along to determine the needs in that area. Mr. Nelson explained that right now the people in Sherwood Green are caught in the middle. Something is going to have to be done soon. Mr. Pete Willenbring with RCWD explained the problem from the watershed district prospective. RCWD does have jurisdiction over the county ditches. Getting water to the ditches is a municipal concern and probably not one the district would be involved in. The RCWD does have the responsibility to maintain county ditch #22. The district does act upon receiving petitions from the municipality to maintain the ditch system. One way to handle this is to bring the ditch back to its original cross section 195 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING May 15, 1985 Page -4- and profile as what was present when the ditch was originally constructed. This can be done through chapter #106 of ditch laws which is the municipality submits a petition in conformance with chapter #106, if the capacity of the ditch as it was originally constructed is not adequate to serve the area and the municipality wishes to have the capacity increased this would be a new project. Review requirements are more stringent since the RCWD has to look at its effects down stream, etc. Mr. Marier asked what are you doing presently to maintain these ditches, especially in the past ten years. Mr. Willenbring said, nothing. Mr. Marier asked what is your responsibility to carry forward maintenance programs for the ditches pointed out by Mr. Davidson. Mr. Cardinal said there would have to be a petition for maintenance. Mr. Marier said the RCWD is collecting a tax for maintaining the ditches and is doing nothing. Mr. Willenbring said funding for maintenance of the ditch systems has not been established at this time. The maintenance could be assessed back to the bene- fitPrl property owners. Mr. Marier said the RCWD is collecting taxes for maintaining ditches and is not expending it for maint- aining them. Mr. Cardinal explained the RCWD only gets $15,000.00 a year for ditch maintenance for the total district. Mr. Marier said nothing has ever been spent in Lino Lakes. Mr. Reinert asked what was the original intent of these ditches? Mr. Willenbring felt it was for agricultural purposes. Mr. Reinert noted that in this particular area of Lino lakes the ditches still serve this purpose, to lower the water table for agricultural use. The ditches have not been adequately maintained and are not oper- ative. If there is not adequate funds for maintenance and since they were passed to RCWD from the county the county has some res- ponsibility to also fund some of the maintenance problems. Mrs. Langfeld said in watershed law, maintenance does not mean there is on going responsibility. There will not be any mainten- ance until there is a petition presented from the municipality. Mr. Reinert felt there should be a joint petition from Lino Lakes and the county since the county has a stake in this problem. Mr. Bohjanen said regardless of whoever presents the petition the benefited property owners will have to be assessed. Isn't this double taxation since each property owner paid part of the $15,000.00 RCWD maintenance fund each year? Mr. Marier said RCWD should make the present ditches operable and then see if additional ditching is needed. If additional ditch- ing is needed then maybe an assessment is called for. Mr. Willenbring said it is a fact of life there simply is not 1 1 1 1 1 1 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING May 15, 1985 Page -5- enough funds coming to the RCWD to adequately maintain all the ditches in the district. Mr. Marier asked if the entry to Marshan Lake were plugged and there was a great deal of flooding would someone have to present a petition to RCWD before anything could be done to correct the problem. Mr. Willenbring said the district could initiate a pro- ject by resolution but the funding would be the same, through assessments. Mayor Benson asked Mr. Davidson where do we go from here, there will need to be help from the county and RCWD. Mr. Davidson said first build some grade into 4th Avenue and ditch using city funds from municipal state aid funds. This would relieve some of the problems for Sherwood Green. The next problem would be to get the water to an outlet either all the way to the south or use some of the intermediate ditch systems. Mayor Benson said the City would need to know how much discharge the county will put into these ditches. Mr. Davidson checked with the state aid engineer who said he has never participated any any cost for ditch improve- ments as part of a storm sewer system. However, that does not mean it cannot be done if we can prove that a certain portion of ditch cleaning costs can be attributed to our state aid system. The state is quite sensitive about paying for more than their share, their share is what comes off the street system. The county has about the same problem but Mr. Ruud also has the additional problem of getting the flow to an outlet. Mr. Davidson said he is aware from working with ditch laws in other municipalities that when the ditches were originally con- structed the adjoining farmers paid the cost and now adjoining landowners will have to help pay for restoring them to their orig- inal elevations. Mayor Benson said the county improvement project is scheduled for 1986, this would give the RCWD time to save up some money or devote some time in this area. Meanwhile the City will have to solve the immediate problem in this area. A permanent solution would not come until 1986. Mr. Nelson said he has deposited money with the City for construct- ion of his north holding pond and outlet under 4th Avenue. Would it be more feasible to do the ditching along 4th Avenue to the ditch at Lilac Street now instead of building a temporary outlet over Mr. LeBlonds property. Mr. Davidson said the ditch at Lilac Street could be quite deep. Mr. Davidson said he could not know any details until surveys are done and a plan prepared. Before the City can spend one cent of the state aid MSA funds the state eng- ineer will need a complete plan and design. 198 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING May 15, 1985 Page -6- Mr. Neil Banta said it appeared that the ditch that crossed Main Street was not doing its job and asked if it could be contributing to the problem north of Sherwood Green. Mr. Davidson said the crossing under Main Street is very shallow and did not think it was much of the problem. Mr. Nelson said when Sherwood Green was platted the water table was seven to eight feet deep. Now it is four to five feet deep and the only thing different is the culvert under Main Street is bigger. Mr. Davidson said the water table in the metro area is rising and is due mostly to having three successive winters with little or no frost and wet falls and springs and all the water is percolating into the soil instead of running off. Mr. Ruud said this problem is in all of Anoka County and as far as Wilmar. Mrs. Sharpen of 801 Main Street explained the problem they exper- ienced in determining whether the ditch near their property is pri- vate or county and was told the water did not cross Main Street but runs along side of the street. Mr. Davidson said the culvert accross Main Street is low and the water does not disperse from the area. Mrs. Sharpen said she would be willing to ditch her own land but it will be of no value if it does not run off or floods someone else out. Mayor Benson asked RCWD and the county what they can do along with the City, what kind of committments can we look at to get this porject done. Mr. Ruud said he will be working with the City Eng- ineer in developing their plans and identifying the drainage needs. If part of the solution to that problem is to be some extensive ditch repair, he did not know if the county board would petition that kind of improvement but expected it would be appropriate for the County Engineer to recommend that the county pay for their share of the improvement based on the area of right of way com- pared to the total area that is going to benefit from the project. The County takes its area and doubles it. He also noted that if the improvement is going all the way down to 35W, MnDot should be picking up some assessment for the area of their right of way at Highway #49. Maybe the prison will benefit and maybe even the state will participate. If there is additional need for funding benefitting property owners will be assessed. Mr. Willenbring said RCWD will be happy to work with the City Eng- ineer and the County Engineer to come up with the most cost eff- ective solution to the problem. Funding is always a problem. He will discuss this at the next RCWD meeting and try to work toward making some of the ditch maintenance funds available. This is one of the bigger problem areas of the district and perhaps they can try to move some of their funds over there. It is a substantial project. Mayor Benson said if everyone takes a hand in this the cost may not be as great as is thought, it could even be larger. Maybe the 1 1 1 1 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING May 15, 1985 Page -7- need to assess back to the affected property will be very little or none at all. This is a major project for the City, County and RCWD that could solve problems for years to come if it is properly maintained. Mrs. Langfeld said the first thing that has to be done is submit a petition to RCWD. Once the petition is presented then it' can be determined how large the project will be and it could be defined. Mayor Benson said the City now has to look at ordering a project along with the County and petition at the same time so RCWD knows what the intent is. Mr. Willenbring said he would provide a letter to the City and Mrs. Langfeld that will outline the procedure to petition a pro- ject. • Mr. Reinert said if the City joins with the County in the petition ordering the project and asking the RCWD to respond accordingly, does that trigger an action to then tax back to the benefiting property owners in order to raise the funds to get the project done. He did not think that is what we want to happen at this point, he wanted to look at funding souces to complement this prior to giving anyone a free hand to go ahead and tax. He wanted to know these things before ordering the project. Mr. Willenbring said he will ask the managers to have their attorney outline the situation and the different funding mechanisms. Mayor Benson asked to have this letter to the City and County within the next thirty days. Mayor Benson said the Council could not take action- - tonight b:ut at the May 28th Council meeting. Also the City has to deal with the immediate problem. Mayor Benson thanked everyone for coming this evening and said he hoped everyone had an idea of what the City would like done and are looking at a permanent solution. It is a priority for 1986. Mr. Frogner asked about the temporary solution. Mayor Benson ex- plained the City is looking at the temporary solutions; one is going through LeBlond's property and the other is to see if it can be incorporated into the permanent project which will be con- sidered at the next Council meeting. Mr. Marier asked Mrs. Langfeld to bring the Commissioners up to date about this project. She said she will bring it before the highway committee on Monday. 199 200 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING May 15, 1985 Page -8- Mr. Marier moved to adjourn at 8:18 P.M. Mr. Bohjanen seconded the motion. Aye. These minutes were considered, corrected, and approved at a regular meeting of the Council on May 28, 1985. Marilyn . Anderson, City Clerk • 1 1