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HomeMy WebLinkAbout10/19/1998 Council Minutes• • • SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING OCTOBER 19, 1998 CITY OF LINO LAKES MINUTES DATE October 19, 1998 TIME STARTED 6:09 p.m. TIME ENDED 10:15 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Bergeson, Dahl, Lyden, Neal, Sullivan MEMBERS ABSENT None Staff members present: Community Development Director, Brian Wessel; Administration Director, Dan Tesch; Planning Coordinator, Mary Kay Wyland; Consulting Planner, Al Brixius and Clerk -Treasurer Marilyn Anderson. The purpose of the meeting was to discuss the draft Comprehensive Plan, consider the issues and come to a comfortable consensus. Kim Sullivan explained that she had concerns with three (3) issues. They were the transportation plan, the moderate goal of 147 new homes per year and the Rice Lake Sea Plane Base. Rice Lake Sea Plane Base - Kim expressed concern about the Performance Zoning classification around the Sea Plane Base and the Lino Air Park. She also expressed concern about the potential of expansion of both facilities. She was concerned about the impact on the Chomonix Golf Course and residents in the immediate area of the Sea Plane Base. Al explained that Performance Zoning was not established to accommodate the expansion of any air field. Kim asked, from a planners point of view, would expansion of the Sea Plane Base be appropriate. Al said no, however, the Sea Plane Base is an existing "grandfathered" use. Kim said she would like to see a restriction so it cannot expand. Andy Neal explained that there was no room for expansion. Al explained that any expansion would require full Council review. Al referred to the vacant parcel of land at the northeast corner of the intersection of Lake Drive and Aqua Lane and explained the owner had approached the City about putting a Super America gas station on the parcel. Staff has not been receptive to this proposal. John Bergeson said he did not have a problem with the Sea Plane Base. However, he is concerned about Lake Drive because of the different uses along that corridor. How could the corridor be planned to the year 2020? There is no mechanism to deal with this situation. Al explained that other cities have faced the same situation. He said that the area should be left as it is. The City would establish criteria for that area and any proposals for the corridor would be handled by implementing Performance Zoning. PAGE 1 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING OCTOBER 19, 1998 Kim asked to see something stronger than "compatibility". She would like to make sure when someone comes to the City with a proposal, they would have to jump through certain "hoops". Andy noted that the Chomonix Golf Course plans to build a restaurant similar to the one at Bunker Hills Golf Course which would mean more traffic on Aqua Lane. Al said he was not aware of that plan. Chris Lyden noted that the Sea Plane Base is here to stay but felt that the opportunity to expand was less than 10%. He advocated buffers and wanted the definition of buffers carefully spelled out. Chris also noted that the daughter of the owner of this business had talked about building a bed and breakfast facility on the property to accommodate the many travelers who use the facility. Al said that when the area around the Sea Plane Base becomes residential, then buffers would need special consideration. He also talked about buffers if the area developed into office facilities. Kim noted that additional buffering requirements should be added to the Zoning Ordinance. She spoke of the "greenway" that would go from one area to another. The "greenway" would also provide some buffer. Kim noted her concern for the expansion of the Sea Plane Base and asked Al to provide language that would preclude expansion. Ms. Pat Rickaby, from the audience noted that buffers would not impact airplane noise. Andy explained that he is not opposed to what is happening at the Sea Plane Base now, but would like jet engine airplanes banned from the site. Al will add this restriction. John said he was unsure that the City could limit the Sea Plane Base as it is today. Certainly the City cannot limit the number of customers. However, the City can limit what happens on the adjacent properties near Lake Drive. He suggested that a "foot print" of the current Sea Plane Base be prepared and limit it to that "foot print". The Lino Air Park was addressed and Al explained that that facility would be limited to what is currently there because residential development has almost completely encircled the site. He will make adjustments to the Comprehensive Plan and expansion will not exceed the current foot print. Chris expressed concern about protecting people who live in the community. Kim noted that the amount of buffering has yet to be determined and will be determined by ordinance. John felt that in the case of airplanes, buffering would only be aesthetic. Chris felt that when an airplane is taking off it is the nosiest. This noise can be buffered. Al explained that the text on page 95 and 96 of the draft Plan embraces what Chris and Kim want. PAGE 2 • • • SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING OCTOBER 19, 1998 Don Dunn from the audience explained that he lives on the east shore of Reshanau Lake and he does hear noise from the airplanes taking off. However, this noise is not nearly as offensive as the jet skis on the lake. He felt buffering would help locally but when the plane is in the air, there is no control. Mike Trehus, from the audience explained that he lives on the west side of Reshanau Lake and the airplane noise is offensive. However, he felt the safety factor needs more recognition. Kim noted that there is a group at the League of Cities that study areas involving airplanes. She suggested that the City become part of that group. 147 Homes - Kim expressed concern because everyone is focusing on 147 homes as moderate growth. She explained that the Plan is not just about growth and felt that 147 is an average that the City should use to keep the City pointed in the right direction. Kim felt the problem is the "build out" population of 20,500. She felt that 147 should be prefaced by "average". Some years that will less than 147 new homes and some years there will be more than 147 new homes. Al explained that he prepared the forecast of population found on page 64 of the Plan. He explained the formula he used noting that all the "experts" expect household size to decline. Al explained that as the "baby boomers" age, they will become "empty nesters". This will contribute to the reduction of household size. Kim asked that everyone be sighted on the 2020 population of 20,500 rather than the number 147. Al explained that there will be plenty of land open in 2020. Andy suggested that this plan be adopted and then if Chris and Caroline are still in disagreement, they can work to amend the plan after the election next fall. He felt it was possible that new Council members could agree with them. Chris asked Al if the Plan is based on a residential buildout on 1500 acres by the year 2020 and if another 1500 acres would be added to 1500 be added for buildout beyond the year 2020. Chris also asked what does "average" mean. Does it mean that we continue issuing building permits for the next nine (9) years and then say, wait a minute, we are above "average" and cannot issue anymore permits until 2020? John explained what "average" meant in the Plan. Chris said that currently we are issuing more than 147 home permits per year. Kim explained that there are tools available to put in the Plan that will restrict residential building. Al explained that currently there is no criteria limiting building. Until something is put in place, the City cannot control residential building. Chris felt that some future leaders will be looking for "outs" to allow residential building that would put the City above "average". John referred to the projected population in 2020 of 20,500. He noted that some people may not agree with the decreasing household size and asked if Al had support for his calculations. Al said yes and explained that he used the Metropolitan Council calculation PAGE 3 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING OCTOBER 19, 1998 as well as other standards. Mr. Trehus asked how Metropolitan Council arrived at their calculations? Al explained. Chris asked what does Metropolitan Council have to do with the quality of life in Lino Lakes. Kim explained that this Plan is what we say fits in Lino Lakes. Chris noted that Metropolitan Council is responsible for the regional transportation plan. He felt that they are not doing their job. He asked how can they push sewer and water north when they cannot provide avenues of transportation? Kim explained that growth has "hop -scotched" beyond Lino Lakes and the City must be sure it does not add to the sprawl. Al explained that the Plan does not embrace Metropolitan Council's goals. It was drafted locally to meet local goals. However, because the Plan has to meet certain parameters, all issues have to be addressed. Kim said that she did embrace the philosophy that when you have city services available, you make the wisest use possible of them. Mr. Dunn referred to the number 147 and said he hoped that as the City develops, policies and implementation tools look at a much broader view than just numbers such as impact on crime and the environment. He felt that 147 is a significant reduction of what has been experienced in the past five (5) or six (6) years. Mr. Dunn also explained that the U.S. Government controls the development of roadways, not the Metropolitan Council and their philosophy has been to keep people within the metro area. Kim explained that she determined that there were 12 or 13 issues raised during the public hearing before the Planning and Zoning Board. She asked Al to "walk" through these issues on Monday night and answer them. Andy explained that he has received many calls regarding where the dense population will occur. Al explained that there were not many areas designated for dense housing and used a map to show the location of them. Andy said he heard that dense housing was planned for the area east of the Village. He felt the area was a prime area for town houses. Andy referred to low income housing. Al explained that housing will be described by how a housing unit is constructed, not by value. Kim noted that density does not always relate to low income housing. Jeff Reinert from the audience asked if the level of affordability can be dictated. Al said the City can establish density and other factors that focus on performance standard but cannot dictate affordability. Andy asked if the Comprehensive Transportation Plan referred to light rail transportation. Kim said not in Lino Lakes. Andy explained that light rail transportation is planned in the Highway 65 and Highway 61 corridors. He felt that would take a lot of traffic out of the City. Al will research this matter. Caroline said that she agreed with the Sea Plane Base expansion a couple of years ago when she was on the Planning and Zoning Board. She referred to an earlier comment about people moving to Roseville and noted that when people move to Roseville, they PAGE 4 • • • SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING OCTOBER 19, 1998 know what is there and that the area is completely developed. When people move to Lino Lakes they are not aware that their area could change due to development. Caroline also disagreed with Al regarding the diminishing household size. Kim asked Caroline to tell her what can be done with the Plan to make it acceptable to her. Caroline said that she was concerned about MUSA and the number of homes planned for each year. She does not want any more MUSA added to the Lino Lakes bank of MUSA for 10+ years. To add more MUSA to build more homes would overload all facilities and be destructive to the environment. She felt that additional MUSA was a time bomb. She suggested using all the MUSA that the City currently has and then determine how much more is needed. Caroline also said she felt that the Council should be discussing the 13 points that she and Chris had discussed with J.P: Houchins and Paul Montain. Kim asked Caroline what is needed to make her change her mind. Caroline said no more MUSA and reduce the number of new homes per year. Al referred to page 66, paragraph four (4) of the Plan outlining what MUSA is currently available and how much additional MUSA would be needed to meet the projected population of 20,500 in 2020. He explained that the Task Force looked at establishing goals and a policy plan to reinforce these goals. Diversification was one goal and the Task Force felt to achieve this goal they needed to establish housing goals. They looked a how to insure the housing goals. They also wanted to look at something that EDAC would feel comfortable with to attract industrial/commercial growth. Al explained that he reviewed the 13 point list of concerns prepared by Chris and Caroline and talked to them about how to get the tax rate down and the tax base up. He said that if the City wants to eliminate Metropolitan Council's influence on future planning, the City must get all of its MUSA upfront. Establish a MUSA bank and use it only according to the plan of defined growth areas. Chris asked if the preliminary plats already under consideration by City staff will reduce the number of MUSA buildable acres that are currently available. Al said yes. Kim asked Caroline if her point is that the City currently has enough MUSA to last for the next 10 years. Caroline said that she is not convenced that industriallcommercial growth would require more houses. She felt people are not moving to Lino Lakes with the goal of working here too. Chris referred to page 66, items No. 4 and No. 5 of the Plan and noted that there will be excess MUSA if the Plan is followed. He asked what will be done with the excess MUSA. Kim explained that the City will make sure that there will be concrete plans as to where the MUSA will go. She asked Al to explain the process of obtaining additional MUSA if less MUSA is put in the Plan at this time. Kim stated that asking for 150% of the needed MUSA will allow flexibility in development. Caroline said that she did not like the word "flexibility". PAGE 5 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING OCTOBER 19, 1998 Al explained that the City could establish a lesser growth rate but then the amount of MUSA would also be less. That means that there would be less MUSA available in 2010 and the City would have to go back to the Metropolitan Council and ask for additional MUSA. This would give the Metropolitan Council too much control over the future of Lino Lakes. Caroline said she felt that there is a strong possibility that the City would have to amend the Plan by 2010 because things change. She would like to be conservative until that date. Caroline said she was concerned about the number 147. She felt some growth should not equate to 147. The City is putting too much emphasis on residential growth and should concentrate more on commercial/industrial growth. Kim felt the key should not be the 147 but rather a population of 20,500 in 2020. The Council took a five (5) minute recess at 8:10 p.m. John felt that land use decisions should be much more important that the rate of residential growth. He said he would rather work with no defined number. John said that he was "OK" with 147 but felt the market should define the number. John noted that the "baby boomer" statistics are huge. He felt as "bubbles" go through any community, the household size is affected. He said he did not disagree with Chris' math, but did feel that the MUSA is not in the right location. John did not want to loose another goal which is infill. He felt the "banking" concept was a good tool. It gives the local government control and flexibility. He felt that this was one of the most important parts of the Plan. This concept will work well in the future and it is up to the elected officials to work within the Plan. John referred to the location of "greenways" and asked where should they go and what should their configuration be? Al explained that they would be built around wetlands and areas that are not buildable. There were comments from the public that there are inaccuracies in the wetland designations. Others were concerned that once the "greenways" were approved by Metropolitan Council, they could not be changed. Al agreed that the wetland inventories were inaccurate. He would like to put in the Plan, a statement that inaccuracies do exist and will be addressed after the environmental study is completed. Kim stressed that the "greenways" are not just wetlands. Al said he will give more details on what "greenways" are. He will also add another paragraph on Page 57 clarifying that "greenway" areas are conceptual. John noted that there is a five (5) acre parcel on Lake Drive that does not fit the zoning. He expressed concern about the development of the lots and others with similar situations. Al explained that every city faces those problems. However he felt that this particular site may need additional attention. Kim suggested that guidelines for planning be established for such lots. She noted that the Council has to do their job based on PAGE 6 s • SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING OCTOBER 19, 1998 guidelines in the Plan. Al explained that the Plan does not change land use, however, in the future when an opportunity comes, the City at that point can consider a Plan amendment. Jeff Reinert, from the audience asked how the Plan is amended. Al explained. Chris felt that John's comment regarding land use should be the issue and than the number 147 was dangerous. What happens if the all residential units are filled in three (3) years rather than 10 years? Does the City stop new home construction entirely for seven (7) years? John explained that the Plan is not the only method of control. If the City has banked MUSA, the City has control. Andy asked if any consideration had been given to annexation? Al said no. Fritz Johnson, 230 Woodridge Lane, from the audience said he is also a local business owner and expressed interest in economic growth. He asked that the Council keep in mind that this is a plan, not a contract. He said that the Council should factor into the plan the fact that children grow up and move out of the area. He explained how the City of Columbia Heights grew and is now in a declining mode. He felt the proposals for the Plan from Chris and Caroline would put the City in a situation where they may have to defend the Plan in court. He also said he wanted his tax dollar spent to fund snow plows, etc. not defending the Plan. Mr. Johnson said that it was his opinion that the citizens wanted some growth. Mr. Johnson read a Dr. Seuss book regarding two (2) people who would not compromise. Kim referred to Chris and Caroline's 13 point list and then stated her understanding of how the meeting went with Chris, Caroline, JP Houchins and Paul Montain. She explained that when the Planning and Zoning Board Chairman, Jamie Schaps was informed of the results of the meeting it was determined that what Chris and Caroline want in the Plan is very different from what is in the Plan and there was no place to negotiate. With that understanding, Jamie felt that another meeting of the Task Force would not serve any purpose. Chris read a prepared statement regarding his expectation of how the Plan should be done and that the Plan cannot be presented to the Metropolitan Council with a 3/5th vote. He felt that the current Plan is based on the status quo. Kim explained that it is not illegal to send the Plan to the Metropolitan Council without a 4/5th vote. Chris said the first issue the Council must deal with is legality which means that the Plan must have a 4/5ths vote. He said in the past 27 years the Metropolitan Council has not taken a city to court because it did not present a plan with a 4/5th vote. However, unless there is a Council directive to abide by the law and get a 4/5th vote, he would not negotiate on any issue. Kim said that it was her intent to abide by the law but she would not be held hostage on the issue. Chris said that he would not be a party to an illegal act. PAGE 7 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING OCTOBER 19, 1998 Kim asked Chris if he had any points that were negotiable, if not, walk out now. Chris ask her if she planned to send a Plan with 4/5ths vote. Kim said it depended on Chris. Andy asked if the Plan could be sent to the Metropolitan Council without a vote. Kim noted that the Council needed to vote. Chris explained that he knows that growth is inevitable, it will come. He said the City could control growth through MUSA and zoning restrictions. Chris said he felt that he was not being "pig headed", but he knows what the majority of people want and that is slow, managed growth. Mr. Johnson explained to Chris that there are items in his 13 points that have serious legal problems. He felt that in general, Chris was zeroing in on details that should be included in the policy plan. Mr. Johnson said in reality, there is no room for Chris to negotiate. He asked if Chris got everything on the list, would he vote for the Plan. Chris said he knows how politics goes. Mr. Fred Chase from the audience, noted that the City of Lake Elmo and the City of Oakdale got themselves into a situation that caused some residents to allow their property to be annexed to the other city. Kim told Chris that she believed that he represented some of the citizens but there was a public hearing and no one came to say that this Plan was not a fit. Kim explained that none of the 13 points fit into the Plan and the Plan policies and asked what is the point of continuing this discussion. Chris said he and Caroline had a five (5) hour talk with J.P. and Paul Montain. They showed him the rationale for one part of the Plan and Chris changed his mind. Chris said that he could be moved if he was shown the rationale against any of his points. Kim asked Chris what it was going to take to get him to compromise. Chris asked which of the 13 points could she live with. Kim said she could live with No. 10 and 12 in part. John said that everyone has been waiting 50 minutes for Chris to go through his 13 points. He asked Chris to get to the point. Chris: No. 1 Agree to hold off until the environmental inventory is completed before allowing any further residential growth. Kim said that there are things in the "pipeline". The "greenway" was put in the Plan which will be a shelter until the environmental inventory is completed. Chris said that is putting the cart before the horse. He asked that the Environmental Board be surveyed on this matter and if they say its all right to go forward, then he will back them. PAGE 8 • • • SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING OCTOBER 19, 1998 Mr. Trehus said that Paul and JP felt this point made sense and other cities have stopped development until their environmental inventory was completed. Brian noted that at the Task Force meeting, JP and Paul said the opposite. Chris said he felt the biggest issue is representing the people. Kim noted that there are many people who feel that you are not representing them. Chris said that the Plan he and Caroline are supporting is not their Plan but what the people want. Kim asked why voting on the Plan is so beneficial. Chris said that the Council Members are representatives. Voting on the Plan takes the personality out of it. Kim asked if Chris felt that the Task Force represented the majority of the people? There was no response. Caroline said that at the meeting with JP and Paul, only four (4) issues were unacceptable to them. Kim said that what Caroline is presenting is very different from the Plan and it appears that there can be no compromise. There is the need to negotiate apples to apples. Kim said she would not spend more time on this matter because it appears there can be no resolution. She noted that in order for the rest of the Council to accept Chris and Caroline's plan, the entire Plan would have to be rewritten. Chris presented some calculations and noted that there is no need for additional MUSA for seven (7) years. He felt that the reality of the situation is that if the MUSA is there, it will be used. He asked that the Plan stipulate there will be no need for additional MUSA for seven (7) years and then see if the City is reaching its goals related to reduction of the tax rate and increase in tax base. Al explained that the current MUSA is not enough. The MUSA in certain parts of the City will not be used especially in the northern part of the City. Chris again said that his No. 1 goal would be to not add anymore MUSA for seven (7) years. He referred to regulatory mechanisms relating to the EHI. Kim explained that there are measures in the Plan that balance all the issues. Nothing is based on the EHI. Chris said the tax rate was an important concern as well as the tax base. Kim asked Chris what two (2) items from his list would make or break this deadlock. Chris said 1) wait for the environmental inventory before adding any more MUSA. He said he has presented a list of 13 issues. Kim asked if all of them were non-negotiable? Chris said no MUSA for seven (7) years from implementation of the Plan and the Environmental Board recommendation for or against going ahead before the environmental inventory is completed. Chris said another concern is hydric soils. How is staff or Council going to assure him that residents will not have bilge pumps in their basements? Al explained the mechanisms to control this problem. Chris wanted an identification of specific issues of hydric soils and mechanisms to address them. PAGE 9 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING OCTOBER 19, 1998 Chris said No. 4 on the list is firm. Al explained that the Plan already addresses this issue. Chris explained that he is looking at a zoning district requiring larger lots based on the size of the house. John asked if Chris was concerned that taxes from the property pay for all the services required to support the house, ei. schools, streets, police etc. He said that property in the R -1X zones already do this. Chris said it is sad that some of these homes are on such small lots. Al felt that lot sizes should be addressed when the supporting ordinances are drafted. Chris asked what assurances are there that this will happen? Mr. Chase told Chris that the Plan already addresses this issue. The Council will have to make sure that supporting ordinances are drafted. The Plan does not guarantee that those ordinances will be drafted. Kim asked Chris to identify three (3) issues. Chris said that items six (6) through 13 are not negotiable. John asked Chris to discuss item No. 13. Chris said that he believes this City is an entity and owes no obligation to anyone. He believed in self determination. Mr. Johnson said that item No. 9 was illegal. Kim said that she believes that many of these items are unrealistic. She asked staff to address specifically what no new MUSA for seven (7) years means. She also asked that if staff sees an alternate solution, this should be submitted. Kim asked Brian to poll the Environmental Board to see if they support forwarding the Plan to Metropolitan Council without completing the Environmental Inventory. She said that their support would have to be unanimous. A majority would mean that it would come forward to Council. Al said that he would address Chris' 13 points in his presentation to the Council on Monday evening. Kim also asked Al to present the comments made at the public hearing and address them as well. Kim explained that she will not reopen the public hearing on Monday evening and she will limit discussion by the Council. Each member will have sufficient time to present their issues. It will not be a free for all, there will be limited discussion. The Council will be limited to two (2) time periods of not more than five (5) minutes each. Mr. Dunn questioned the process under open mike. Kim explained that open mike is the time for citizens to come forward and make a presentation about an item that is not on the agenda. These presentations are limited to four (4) minutes for one person and eight (8) minutes for persons representing groups. Mr. Dunn told the Council that he hoped the Council will reach a decision that the Plan is a good Plan. He noted that the Task Force Committee worked on the Plan for approximately two and one-half years and they are not a bunch of dummies. PAGE 10 • • SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING OCTOBER 19, 1998 John said that he agreed that discussion should be limited but would not be happy with a 10 minute time limit. He felt that maybe 12 or 15 minutes would do. Kim said that she wanted worthwhile discussion. Chris said that he was amazed that the Mayor would limit discussion. Kim told Chris that this matter has been beaten to death. Mr. Trehus said it was inappropriate to not have public input. He felt that public input has been closely guarded and limited. He noted that in the past seven (7) months, there was one meeting and it was moved to a Friday morning making it difficult for anyone to attend. Kim asked Chris how much time he needed for his presentation on Monday. Chris said about one hour. Kim said that was not going to happen. The meeting was adjourned at 10:15 p.m. These minutes were presented, corrected and approved at the regular Council meeting held on November 9, 1998. Mily��d9AJ5d. 6/1A -60-0A-0 n G. Anderson, Clerk -Treasurer PAGE 11