HomeMy WebLinkAboutLegends Minutes 2
Lyssa Leitner, Washington County, presented information regarding the metro Gold Line
which is the eastern finger of the metro transit. The 15Y question a company will ask is
regarding the availability of transit. They have chosen to go with rapid transit which will
have buses only lanes with 13 stations on the line. This is the safest, most efficient type
of transit. This will operate from 5 am until midnight. This will not replace the express
buses, but will operate in addition to them.
Dodson asked about the 8-15% return on investment. This return is made up of about 6
factors including, less wear and tear on roads,fuel, vehicles, etc. Dodson also asked
about the perception that a train is better than bus. It was stated that the cost of the
rapid transit is about half the cost. It will look similar to light rail with the lanes, but
without the rails.
Dodson asked if there was anything in the works for Highway 36. Lyssa stated that it is
in the works for the planning stages for 2016.They are waiting to see what happens
when the bridge opens. Dodson also asked about the risk factors. Llyssa stated that
there are risk analysis being undertaken by MnDOT& Met Council. There is a cost risk
analysis as well.
Will, East Metro Strong, which has been in existence for about a year and a half. East
Metro Strong is made up of a board of 3 counties,4 Cities, 3 businesses and one non-
profit. The goal of the partnership is in support of catalytic transit investment. This will
make the eastern metro competitive and draws good economic development and
supports the quality of life. They work in support of the many stakeholders and provide
technical assistance.
Kreimer asked what the financial implications are to the City. Lyssa stated that there
would be zero cost to the Cities budget to build and operate. Dodson asked what the
deliverables from the study would be. Will stated that the report will state what types
of land uses the corridor can support which will translate to what Lake Elmo can support
as well, possibly using a balanced score card. The market study would take 3 months
from when they start.
The Commission was supportive of contributing to the study as long as we get
something back from it. Will stated that it is really targeted to Lake Elmo needs. Fields
is concerned that we are looking at the Lake Elmo long term goals. This market study is
looking out to 2040.
M/S/P: Dodson/Fields, move to recommend to the City Council that we move forward
with the market study for the BRT, Vote:5-0, motion carried unanimously,
Public Hearing: Legends of Lake Elmo Concept Plan
Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 9-14-15
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Gozola began his presentation regarding an application for an open space development
concept plan on three unaddressed parcels totaling 110 acres to the North of 501h Street
and to the South of the Sanctuary development. The concept plan includes 51
residential lots.
Gozola discussed some of the challenges with the site plan presented. These included
the lack of buffers, the access spacing for the 3 lots to the south that front 501h Street,
the difficulty with the park and the overall density. The Developer is asking for 3 main
deviations that would require a 4/5 Council approval. Those are 1) the density from 40
units to 51 units 2)the lack of buffer setbacks 3) lot design. As far as the development,
a very important part would be connections to the east and to Linden Avenue. This
would provide not only secondary access to Legends, but also to Sanctuary. The access
spacing on 50th street also needs to be looked at to limit access to 50th Street. There
were infrastructure issues talked about as well as phasing options.
Fields asked about the buffers. Gozola confirmed that they are not meeting the buffers.
Haggard asked about the 20% bonus. Gozola confirmed that the bonus only applies to
PUD's, which this is not.
Todd Erickson, project engineer for Legends, answered some of the Commissioners
questions. He stated that they are requesting the additional lots in exchange for an
extensive trail system which connects the other developments and winds throughout
the development. There was a discussion about the different types of sewer systems.
Public Hearing opened at 9:40 pm
Amy Vanderhoff, 11384 50th Street, she supports a housing development, however,
would like to see them follow the codes. She is very concerned about the 3 lots to the
south that would have a shared driveway. Klatt stated that a shared driveway would
need to be evaluated and approved with this project.
Sue Hicks, concerned with the construction access, which seems to have been
addressed and also with the lack of buffering.
Austin Anderson, President of Sanctuary HOA, he is concerned with the lack of buffer
zones. He would like to see the park in the outlot F area which has been talked about in
the past.
Michelle Chickett, 5711 Linden, concerned with the lack of a buffer. Concerned that this
development will use Sanctuary as a cut through to 36. She would like to see only the
40 homes allowed by code and would not like to see any other deviations from code.
Concerned that the developer will not be held to development agreement as has
happened in the past.
Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 9-14-15
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Klatt stated that we have much more stringent development contracts in place which
have more strict rules for the release of development securities. This will protect the
development.
Pam Chickett, 5711 Linden Ave, she is concerned with the streets in Sanctuary. The
quality is already poor and adding additional traffic will continue to degrade them. Their
neighborhood should not be a cut through to Hwy 36. She also is concerned with the
park. She feels that the park in Sanctuary was intended to be a neighborhood park and
not a park that people came from other neighborhoods to use.
Tricia Giese, 5805 Linden Ave N, there are numerous children on Linden Ave and is
concerned with people using Linden to access 36. She is wondering if the access to 36
could be changed to have a right and left hand turn lane as having Linden go through
will add a lot of traffic at rush hour time.
Ben Backberg, 5693 Linden Ave N, has an issue with where the park was moved. He has
a problem with the deviation on the number of lots. Would like to see the development
staged to start along 50th street.
Suzanne Meyers, 1171156th Street, would like to see the road and cul-de-sac by her
home moved and would like to see buffers.
Joe Weber, 11649 56th Street, there is no buffer from the road to his lot. There is an
expectation that there would not be a road that close to their property. He was told by
developer when he purchased his home that Linden Trail was never intended to be a
through street. Klatt stated that the connection is shown in the 2005 Comprehensive
Plan.
Mayor Mike Pearson, 2805 Lisbon Ave, was wondering which council members the
developer had talked to about moving the park.
Carolyn Carey, 5701 Linden Ave, was told by developers that the road would not extend
outside development. Would not expect to access Legends by road, but by trail only.
She would like to see all of the infrastructure completed before homes are allowed to
be built.
Lisa Pilla, 11693 56th Street, asked Klatt about how the code applies to buffers. Klatt
stated that there is a 100 foot buffer for roads and structures from OP to OP. She
would request that the reduction be denied. She would request extensive landscaping.
Correspondence was received from the Hecker's with updated statements regarding
additional homes and the buffering.
Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 9-14-15
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Correspondence was also received from Greg &Amy Sainsbury that was similar to
comments already stated.
Public Hearing closed at 10:30 pm
Klatt stated that a number of years ago, the City went through and re-evaluated buffer
setbacks. Most of the projects ended up having exceptions to the buffers. Sanctuary is
one of the developments that had an exception to buffer setbacks.
Dorschner asked which council members the developer talked to about the park.
Landucci stated that he did not speak to all of the Council members, but did have
discussions. He does not like Community Septic Systems. He does not think it is good to
rely on the HOA to manage them. He feels setbacks are an issue & phasing should start
at 501h Street. He feels number of units should meet the code and the trails might not
be manageable.
Haggard is concerned that Sanctuary Park is a public Park and might not be accessible.
She likes where the Legends Park is on current plan as it will be accessible. Is concerned
about the upkeep of trails and would like Park Commission input on them. Not a fan of
the increased density and the buffering is a concern.
Fields is impressed with the overall quality of the development, but feels it was done in
a way to maximize the return to the developer. Is not in favor of the current design and
is not in favor of deviating from the City standards.
Kreimer likes a lot of things about the development, but sees no reason to go above the
City standard for density as this is not a PUD. Wants the buffers adhered to and would
like to ensure the construction traffic comes in off of 50th Street.
Landucci stated that without the wetlands, 51 units would be allowed on 110 acres. 40
lots is not enough for this large of a piece of property and the wetlands are not
considered in the calculation for open space. Dodson stated that is not a good
argument as it is part of the code.
Dodson asked about the MPCA comments regarding the septic system. Gozola stated
that the MPCA would review and have to give approval if this moves forward. Klatt
discussed community vs. individual septic systems. Dodson feels that there are too
many homes to meet the spirit of the OP ordinance. He is concerned with the 3 lots to
the south with the proposed shared driveway. He wants the park Commission to check
in on this development. He wants to see the phasing changed to start with 50th and
feels that eventually, Linden needs to go through.
Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 9-14-15
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Haggard stated that this concept plan is close to being what they want and this
development will be a highly desirable neighborhood for Lake Elmo. She just has a
problem with the deviations.
M/S/P: Dorsch ner/FieIds, move to recommend denial of the Concept plan based on the
discussions regarding density being too high, lack of buffer zones being met, and
phasing in reverse order, Vote:5-0, motion carried unanimously.
Council Updates—September 1, 2015 Meeting
1. Village Park Preserve Final Plat Extension—Passed.
2. Zoning Text Amendment—Commercial Wedding Ceremony Venue
Ordinance—Passed.
3. Inwood 2nd Addition Final Plat—Passed.
4. Savona 3rd Addition Final Plat—Tabled.
5. NE Metro 916 Intermediate School District Final Plat and Preliminary and
Final PUD Plans— Passed.
Staff Updates
1. Upcoming Meetings
a. September 28, 2015
b. October 12, 2015
Commission Concerns
The Commission is concerned about a number of factors regarding the community
septic systems. They would like to discuss in the future if the City should move away
from allowing OP and possibly going to 2 %2 acre lots. Klatt stated that this discussion
should be had as a broader planning issue when looking at the comprehensive plan.
Haggard would like feedback from the Park Commission regarding trails, particularly
from a maintenance and standard standpoint. She would also like information
regarding when the Parks Commission looks at a development plan. They go to Planning
Commission first as they are the Land Use body.
Dodson asked when the Legends Concept plan would go to Council. It will go to Council
probably on October 6th or 71h. They discussed the differences between tabling and
denying an application.
Meeting adjourned at 11:15 pm
Respectfully submitted,
Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 9-14-15
T[u-CITY OF
LAKE ELMO
City of Lake Elmo
Planning Commission Meeting
Minutes of October 26, 2015
Chairman Dodson called to order the meeting of the Lake Elmo Planning Commission at
7:00 p.m.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Dodson, Dorschner, Fields, Haggard, Larson, Williams, and
Kreimer
COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: Griffin
STAFF PRESENT: Contract Planner Gozola and Interim Administrator Schroeder
Approve Agenda:
The agenda was accepted as presented.
Approve Minutes: October 12, 2015
M/S/P: Williams/Dorschner, move to approve minutes as presented, Vote: 7-0, motion
carried unanimously.
Public Hearing—Preliminary and final Planned Unit Development (PUD) Home 2 Suites
M/S/P: Dorschner/Dodson: move to table the Preliminary and Final Planned Unit
Development (PUD) Home 2 Suites, Vote: 7-0, motion carried unanimously.
Public Hearing—Open Space Concept Plan— Legends of Lake Elmo
Gozola began his presentation for an application for an open space development
concept plan on 110 acres to the North of 50th Street north and South of the Sanctuary
Development. This concept plan has been revised from a previous submission and now
includes 44 residential lots. Gozola stated that the phasing has been changed to go
from south to north,the number of lots has decreased from 51 to 44, which is still over
the 40 that is allowed by code. The buffers have been extended. Gozola talked about
the septic areas and some things related to that.
Gozola pointed out some lots that could potentially have issues with the buildable area,
especially if people want to put in pools or other structures. Staff feels that the
secondary access connecting to Linden Ave is critical, even though there is opposition
from Sanctuary residents. This connection is critical for both developments for safety
and access issues.
Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 10-26-15
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There are 2-4 deviations requested which will require a 4/5 vote from the Council.
Those are higher density, not meeting the buffer setbacks on some lots, lot design with
the communal drainfield, and that some lots are on the prime farm land.
The entry point has been changed per the City Engineer suggestion to meet access
spacing.
Kreimer asked if there was a setback for the drainfield to the property line. Gozola
stated that there is not one.
Dorschner asked if there has been any preliminary soil testing on these sites, or if this is
just preliminary.
Todd Erickson, project engineer, talked about the drainfield sites. He stated that the
tanks and pipes are all privately owned.
There was a brief discussion regarding the park.
Council member Fliflet, 4577 Lily Ave, spoke regarding the termination of Linden Ave.
She feels public safety includes more than just emergency response time. She is
concerned that it will become a cut through route to highway 36 which would create a
safety concern. She would like the Planning Commission to consider eliminating the
connection.
Public Hearing opened at 8:10 pm
Danny Hecker, 11658 50th Street, supports the overall concept of the development.
They are the most affected neighbor and they are asking that the required setbacks be
maintained.
Jeff Kloewer, 11928 56th Street, main concern is the road connection and how the access
to highway 36 will change.
Michelle Chickett, 5711 Linden Ave N, opposed to the road connection. Linden is
narrow and curvy and there are some blind spots. The idea of a cul-de-sac is a good one
as it would be available if needed for emergency purposes.
Pamela Chickett, 5711 Linden Ave N, agrees with previous speakers and would like them
to consider that there is over 100 kids in their neighborhood. Would be creating a very
unsafe situation for kids in Sanctuary and Legends.
Carolyn Carey, 5701 Linden Ave N, she lives close to where this road connects. She
would like to see the 2 neighborhoods connected by a trail and one that could be used
for emergency vehicles.
Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 10-26-15
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Amy Vanderhoff, 11384 50th Street, is concerned about the 10 acre area next to
Hecker's being used for septic. Feels that the code should be met with no deviations.
The 200 foot buffer setback is not being met in South corner and is also concerned with
driveways that would go out to 50th Street.
There were 2 emails received from Greg Sansbury and Suzanne Meyers asking that
Linden not be connected.
Public Hearing closed at 8:30 pm
M/S/P: Williams/Fields, move to find that the land use is consistent with the
comprehensive plan. Vote: 7-0, motion carried unanimously.
The Planning Commission decided to break up the details into discussions about the
park, sewer, Linden Ave and buffer setbacks.
Discussion was had regarding a possible park in this development. Williams suggested
possibly restricting discussion to if the Planning Commission would like to see a park in
this development or not.
M/S/P: Williams/Haggard, move to recommend a park be included in the development
and that the developer meet with the park commission to determine the best location.
M/S/P: Williams/Haggard, move to amend the above motion to read that the Planning
Commission requests the Park Commission to consider if a park should be included in
this plan and if so, where the best location would be. Vote: 7-0, the original motion as
amended carried unanimously.
Larson would like it noted that the discussion of the Park should also factor in that in
this area having a park could be a safety issue so that kids are not playing in the street.
M/S/P: Fields/Larson, move to recommend that the developer provide a Cul-de-Sac by
Linden Ave with a provision for an emergency access. Vote:2-5, motion failed.
Dorschner, Larson and Williams are opposed to the motion. Larson feels the added cost
for plowing is a factor. Williams brought up the fact that the code does not allow a cul-
de-Sac longer than 600 feet which this is. The stub has always been there and should go
through.
M/S/P: Dorsch ner/Williams, move to recommend that Linden Ave be connected
through from Legends of Lake Elmo and Sanctuary as shown on the concept plan. Vote:
5-2, motion passed.
Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 10-26-15
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M/S/P: Williams/Dorschner, move to recommend that a connection road be constructed
between Linden Ave and the west property line. Vote:6-0, motion passed, (Larson did
not vote as left the room).
M/S/P: Fields/Dorschner, move to recommend that all setback requirements be met
with the exception of the Eastern Boundary. Vote: 7-0, motion passed, Unanimously.
Gozola clarified that the buffer setback is for any structure or driving surface.
M/S/P: Haggard/Dodson, move to recommend an amendment to the motion to add in
some sort of physical delineator between the property line of Carriage Station and the
East side of the development in places where there is a small amount of open space.
Vote:5-3, motion passed.
Williams suggested possibly a 2 foot tall marker or sign designating the open space.
M/S/P: Williams/Haggard, move to amend the original motion to insert the words
"adjacent to Carriage Station". Motion Withdrawn.
Dodson started the discussion about the drainfield issue. He likes this proposal better
than the communal drainfield. The City Engineer comments are that the drainfield
should be on the individual lots and the lots should be bigger.
M/S/P: Williams/Dodson, move to postpone consideration of the drainfield portion only
until they receive the staff evaluation of these types of systems which are allegedly in
Sunfish Ponds and Whistling Valley. Vote. 7-0, motion passed, Unanimously.
Williams asked if there was any information regarding how the land trust feels about the
drainfields on the open space. He would like that as part of the research as well.
M/S/P: Williams/Dorschner, move to recommend that prior to preliminary plat, all
recommendations from the City Engineer in his letter dated October 22, 2015 be
addressed. Vote: 7-0, motion passed, unanimously.
Haggard thinks it is weird that the trail goes in front of the homes and they get credit as
parkland for what is virtually a sidewalk.
M/S/P: Williams/Dorschner, move to recommend that this proposal include a
constructed trail along the north side of 50th Street along the property. Vote: 7-0,
motion passed, Unanimously.
Gozola stated that the trail was already part of the Engineers recommendations and
would already be covered.
Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 10-26-15
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The Planning Commission discussed the number of lots. 40 per code or the proposed
44. The developer stated that they came in with 44 as the engineer is requiring
concrete curb which is very expensive. Dorschner asked if they will be able to meet the
buffer setback requirement. The developer stated that it would be very difficult to put
together a quality development and meet those setbacks. There was discussion about
postponing vs. denial.
M/S/P: Dorshner/Williams, move to postpone consideration until Developer comes back
with an alternate plan to address the setbacks and sewer concerns. Vote: 7-0, motion
passed, Unanimously.
Business item to discuss the public hearing notice regarding changes to RR & AG. What
direction would the Commission like to take? Should all of the 6 items be considered at
the same time? Council Member Fliflet suggested that maybe the scope of the public
hearing should be broader to be able to discuss all the uses that were added. The
consensus was to have a meeting to discuss the current uses in the rural districts.
Council Updates—October 20, 2015 Meeting
1. Hammes Plat Extension -Tabled
Staff Updates
Tartan Park has been sold, but the purchaser has not been made public knowledge yet.
They will bring that back once it is known.
Metro Transit is looking to put a park and ride in at 94 and Manning. This would
probably happen in 2017. This would be independent of the BRT. The question to ask is
if this is something the City wants.
1. Upcoming Meetings
a. November 9, 2015
b. November 23, 2015
Commission Concerns
Dorschner is concerned about adding agenda items the night of the meeting. He is
concerned about Council members coming and driving their meeting. Would like to
stick to the agenda items that are in the packet.
Meeting adjourned at 10:50 pm
Respectfully submitted,
Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 10-26-15