HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-27-2006 PCMAmended/Approved: 4/10/06
City of Lake Elmo
Planning Commission Meeting
Minutes of March 27, 2006
Chairman Helwig called to order the meeting of the Lake E lmo Planning Commissi on at 7:00
p.m. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Fliflet, Park, Van Zandt, Deziel, Roth, Schneider,
Armstrong, Pelletier. STAFF PRESENT : Planner Dillerud, Administrator Rafferty, and
Recording Secretary Anez.
Agenda
M /S/P , PelletierNan Zandt to accept the agenda as presented. Vote: 9:0.
Minutes of February 27, 2006
Co mmissione r Fliflet page two halfway down the page, it s hould say Home Office.
Commissio ner Pelletier page one nay vote last sentence onl y Pelletier stated ... Page three crazy
to try to regulate Avon and those types of home parties-delete it.
M/S/P , FlifletNan Zandt to approve as amended. Vote: 7:0:2 , Abstain: Roth and Schneider:
Absent.
Minutes of March 13 , 2006
Commissioner Fliflet page three motion to remove number six. Limit the number of h ours not
l ateness of hours.
M/S/P, Roth/Fliflet to approve the Minutes of March 13, 2006 as amended. Vote: 7 :0:2,
Abstain: Armst rong and P e lletier : Absent.
M /S/P , Fliflet/Schneider to ask Council for clarification about wh y they would not want to read
commentary and discussion points o n planning i ssues.
Administrator Rafferty said staff w ill bring guidelines for the agenda to the next meeting.
Vote: 9:0.
Public Hearing: Preliminary Plat, Development Stage Plan and Conditional Use Permit
for HIDDEN MEADOWS OF LAKE ELMO (Formerly known as D eer Glen)
The Planner said the applicant h as submitted two related applications on a 108.62 acre site at
Keats and Hi gh way 36. The preliminary plat is for a 68 acr e portion of the 10 8 ac r es. The
balance of the s ite h as been previous l y preliminarily platted including the church s ite, the
homestead site, and the roadway.
Staff observed the preliminary plat essentiall y resp onds to the Concept Plan layout as approved.
The Landscape Plan for the project is responsive to the OP Ordinance and Section 400
Subdivi sion requireme nts. Condition Number 5 for the east prope1iy line appears to have an
existing tree line substituting for the 200 feet buffer. The C ity is looking for cross-sections to
d e m ons trate th e effecti veness of that buffer. The Cit y Engineer indicates a number of items in
an e-mail memo dated March 23, 2006, w here t her e was not enough inform ation provided b y the
applicant for him to fini sh a review. Staff recommends waiting for that supple menta l
info rmation because of their number.
Lake Elmo Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of March 27, 2006
•
Amended/ Approved: 4/10/06
Paul Danielson, Engineer, Kimley-Horn and Associates
A change was made for the residential portion of the site and it was his intent to wait for a
favorable response from the Planning Commission before submitting all of the engineering
plans. He asked for a recommendation of removing some box elders in order to plant evergreens
within that tree line. He said the conditions of the City Engineer are not a deal breaker and they
could comply with submission requirements in time for the City Council Meeting. The cul-de-
sac on the so uthwest corner was an issue. That was what was propose d at Concept Stage and the
purpose is to slow down traffic and provide more green spaces. City standards for cul-de-sacs
need to be provided. Cross sections for retaining walls were submitted. Those that require guard
rails based on State standards will receive them. He is not sure it is necessary to get VBWD
approval in order to get City approval. Storm sewer profiles were included in the submittal but
he will provide as necessary. Septic system was prov ided in package for the church. Watermain
sizing is not a huge issue . Trail widths and locations are not part of the City system so they were
changed to loop within the neighborhood. Stubbing the trail to the east was discouraged by the
Council. Conifers require a ce1iain amount of light and the box elder canopy is too dense for
them to survive. Roundabout was to calm traffic and to add nodes of common green space and
broke up asphalt.
THE CHAIRMAN OPENED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:35 P .M.
Jim Dyer, 5435 Keats Avenue
The Keats/Highway 36 intersection is going to fail and something needs to be done. It may not
be the developer's fault or full y their responsibility. Pockets of development are all that are
being created and you can't drive through neighborhoods anymore like you can in the Tri-lakes
Area. Another parcel of land south of Outlot E or Outlot F of 20 acres will be further landlocked
to the north by this development. The develope rs are not interested in prov iding access to the
south property line . That outlot would be a nice driveway for the landlocked parcel to the south.
Maybe residents could drive down thi s street instead of Keats Ave.
Steven Ziertman, 5761 Keats Avenue
Owner to west of the church location. The trail changed from the original design. He would like
to be sure the trail maintains the appropriate setback from his prope1iy line. The road is already
in going into the church in the development. The city is putting the horse before the cart. The
road should not have gone in until this application was approved.
THE CHAIRMAN CLOSED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:41 P.M.
Pat Kinney, Developer
Mr. Dyer contacted the church asking the question about right of way. At this point we are too
far into the plans to change them now. The Council did not want the road going through to the
east, why would they put one in to the south. The southeast corner is hilly. They would have to
redesign the whole plat two years into it.
M/S/P , Armstrong/Schne ider to table the preliminary plat, OP Development Stage Plan, and
Conditional Use Permit of HIDDEN MEADOWS OF LAKE ELMO to the April 2 4, 2006
Meeting. Vote: 9:0.
M/S/P, Aimstrong/Schneider to amend the previous motion, and table the preliminary plat until
such time as the Pla nner can r eturn it to the Planning Commission. Vote: 8:01: Abstain:
Lake Elmo Planning Comm iss ion Meeting Minutes of March 27, 2006 2
Amended/ Approved: 4/10/06
Deziel-.Would like an opportunity to comment before tabling. He wo uld prefer not to table as a
first motion.
520 Site Plan: Rockpoint Church (Formerly Lakewood Evangelical Free Church)
The Planner explained that this application deals onl y with twenty acres of the 108 acres. The
preliminary plat approved in the past creates this site. This site will have to be final platted
before commencement of construction of the church. He referred to the Planning Staff Report
and three variance issues that have been identified therein.
Richard Stuhlman, BWBR Architects
He reported that this is virtually the same building as the commission has looked at for two
years. When approval was received for the Preliminary Plat in May, they developed drawings
seen now by the Planning Commission. The exterior building materials were discussed in a
meeting with the City Planner. Building and steeple height were also discussed. The highest
point of the building is 49. 5 feet to the peak of the roof at the front. The steep le and the cross
tower is 58 feet tall. He noted that Lake Elmo zoning ordinance standards height standards said
unoccupied spaces can be 25 feet higher than occupied adjoining spaces.
Paul Danielson, Kimley-Horn
They can comp ly with 20 feet setback by moving the parking lot west eight feet and keep same
amount of parking.
Tom Durag, BWBR Architects
The highest point of the building is just over 49 feet. There are a number of planes that can
make heights unclear. The church is about two football fields from the east property line. The
southeast wall seems to be the one with the issue now and that side is a walkout. Classrooms
under the sanctuary caused them to add windows and change the overall height of the church.
They could abandon the windows and add soil or change the roof but would prefer a variance.
The elevation at the top of the spire tower is 58 feet and the cross is higher to around 70 feet
high. The square footage of the building is about 25,000 square feet of footprint and 54 ,000
square feet of space over two stories.
The Planner said he might have misunderstood the drawings but he w ill discuss it with them.
Unoccupied structure additional height of 25 feet does conflict with other areas of the code. Th e
Planner will ask the City Attorney which controls in this case .
M/S/P, Roth/Schneider to table the app li cation for the Rockpoint Church pending redesign or
variance applications by the applicant. Vote: 9:0.
The meeting recessed at 8 :24 p.m. and reconvened at 8:34 p.m.
Fences: Review Fencing as a Buffer Between Incompatible Land Uses
The Planner exp lained that the Council at the last Council Workshop has asked for a review of
the Fence Ordinance with regard to fencing as screening between commercial and residential
uses. There are several ways to allow fencing to be used as screening. Carriage Station was a
PUD and Council allowed the evergreens to provide screening between the residential and
commercial portions of that development. There are many areas in the City where this would
apply. Perhaps screening can be done by the residential user when the commercial user does not.
Lake E lmo Planning Commiss ion Meeting Minutes of March 27 , 2006 3
Amended/Approved: 4/10/06
M/S/P , Roth/Deziel to publish a hearing notice to consider an amendment to the fencing
ordinance as indicated in the Staff Rep01t of March 22, 2006. Vote: 9:0.
City Council Updates
Text an1endments to the Code for driv e-up windows, outdoor social events, and home
occupations were all refened to the Council Workshop of April 11 for discussion. They will
reconsider the Haire Variance because their normal meeting date was changed. The Village
Area Master Plan was presented at the Council Workshop and they directed a public open house
on April 19 , 2006 at the Elementary School at 6:30 p.m. Commissioners should try to attend.
They may then submit it to the Planning Commission for public hearing. The Met Council Staff
has recommended our 2030 Comprehensive Plan be approved without further modifications and
that is expected to be heard and endorsed on April 12, 2006 by the full Met Council Board. The
City Council suggested direction for review of the Zoning Ordinance. Lane Kendig will be
contacted for another presentation. At that point, the Council will direct the Commission on the
form of the new Zoning Ordinance.
Adjourn at 8:48 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
l~~
Recording Secretary
La ke Elmo Plannin g Co mmi ssion Meetin g Minut es of March 2 7, 2 006 4
.,..
CSll'.
LAKE City of Lake Elmo
~ 3800 Laverne Avenue North
Lake Elmo, Minnesota 55042
(651) 777-5510 Fax: (651) 777-9615
www.LakeElmo.org
NOTICE OF MEETING
The City of Lake Elmo
Planning Commission will conduct a meeting on
Monday, March 27, 2006, at 7:00 p.m.
AGENDA
1. Agenda Approval
2. Minutes
a. February 27, 2006
b. March 13 , 2006
3 . PUBLIC HEARING: Preliminary Plat, Development Stage Plan, Conditional
Use Permit~HIDDEN MEADOWS OF LAKE ELMO (Formerly Deer Glen)
4 . 520 Site Plan: Rockpoint Church (Formerly Lakewood Evangelical Free Church)
5. Fences: Review Fencing as Buffer Between Incompatible Land Uses
6. City Council Update
7. Adjourn
The public is invited to attend.
AMENDl:.-,APPROVED: MAR 27, 2006
City of Lake Elmo
Planning Commission Meeting
Minutes of March 13, 2006
Chaim1an Helwig called to order the meeting of the Lake Elmo Planning Commission at 7:00 p.m.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Fliflet, Ptacek, Roth, Van Zandt, Deziel , Lyzenga, Schneider.
STAFF PRESENT: Administrator Rafferty , Planner Dillerud, and Recording Secretary Anez.
Agenda
M/S/P, Fliflet/Ptacek to add Public Hearing: Consider Code Amendment for Drive-up Service
Windows Adjacent to Restaurant in GB Zone as publicly noticed and include as Item 6, and to accept
the Agenda as amended. VOTE: 8:0.
Minutes of February 27, 2006
M/S/P, Fliflet/Roth to table minutes of February 27, 2006 until next meeting. VOTE: 8:0.
Public Hearing: Variance ~ Septic within house setback
The Planner said the home at 7949 Hill Trail North was constructed in 1976, and there is no record of
improvements to the original septic system. The septic designer concludes there is only one location
for the drainfield. In order for that system to be installed, it has to be fifteen feet from the house.
The Planner looked at whether another location can be found or whether a mound system could be
used. The Planner said the applicant says this location is the only one. He noted that mounds are
generally looked at in Lake Elmo as a system of last resort because there have been problems with
them here.
The Applicant, Mr. Scharrer, said he received a call from city staff to see if the drainfield could be
placed elsewhere on the lot. He said the design submitted did not show the additional constraints of
the deck or gazebo. He distributed a new design.
THE CHAIRMAN OPENED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:15 P.M.
Nobody spoke.
THE CHAIRMAN CLOSED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:16 P.M.
M/S/P, Van Zandt/Deziel, to recommend approval of the variance from the hou se setback for a septic
system at 7949 Hill Trail North based on the findings in the Planner's Staff Report -points 1, 2, and
3, and the unknowns for an alternative system,. VOTE: 7: 1 Nay: Ptacek-Staff should provide
Planning Commission with the negatives of mound systems once and for all.
Public Hearing: Consider Code Amendment ~ Home Occupations
The Planner said he reduced the three columns to one in his Staff Report. Under Number 6 on
second page, it should read, " ... there should be NO e mployees on-site." Seven paragraphs would be
added to the zoning ordinance unde r the various zoning districts where there are home occupations
currently addressed.
Commissioners Roth and Deziel said to strike gains.
THE CHAIRMAN OPENED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:32 P.M.
Jeannie Schnell
Ms. Schnell said she saw the article about Home Occupations in the Pionee r Press. She wrote a letter
Lake Elmo Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of March 13 , 2006
AMENDE ... ~PPROVED: MAR 27, 2006
to the mayor and she distributed it and read it.
She said she has lived in her hou se 30 years. She i s concerned about so man y restrictions, especiall y
s ign s in yards. She thinks it is time to loose n restrictions not tighten them. She th.in ks some signs
s hould be allowed. Stock in trade s hould be allowed. Code Enforcement should not include peeping
in garage windows. With reductions in pensions and job losses, etc., people need opportunities to
make extra money.
The Planner sai d there are many people who agree and also many people concerned about their
ne ighborhoods .
A Man From the Audience
The man asked how will you measure adverse impact on adjacent properties?
The Planner said there are standards for odors, lume ns of li ght, decibels, etc. Th a t clause is also a
concern to the Planner.
THE CHAIRMAN CLOSED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:38 P.M.
M/S/P, Flifl et/Roth to quantify the Code to limit the number of customers to a site to no more than 10
customer visits p er day and add that clause to Number 8.
VOTE: 7: 1 Nay-Lyzenga-Micromanaging; leaving it up to a lice nse is sufficient.
M/S/P, Ptacek/Schneider to amend Code definitions adding Section 1115 to lice nsing and amending
zoning di stricts as presented in the Planner's Staff Report.
VOTE: 8:0.
Public Hearing: Consider Code Amendment ~
Outdoor Social Events in AG Zoning District
The Planner said the draft Code amendment i s generic for all AG properties. The City of Stillwater
said they have a CUP or SUP for musical events onl y. The Planners said he took Commissioner
Armstrong's factors into consideration and drafted for Municipal Code 300.07, 4.A.2. to add another
Conditional Use to tho se already there. He said that is a more contemporary way to draft an
ordinance.
The Planner distributed a letter from Carol Palmquist received on March 1, 2006.
THE CHAIRMAN OPENED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 8:05 P .M.
Nobody spoke.
THE CHAIRMAN CLOSED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 8 :06 P.M.
M/S/F, Deziel/Roth To limit No. 4 for Outdoor Social Events to ten guests per acre .
VOTE: 1 :7 Failed. (Yea-Deziel)
M/S/P, Ptacek/Roth t o limit Number 4 in th e standards for Outdoor Social Events that attendance at
events should be no more than 20 persons per acre, with a maximum of 500 persons, including event
staff.
Lake Elmo Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of March 13, 2006 2
AMENDE ....... PPROVED: MAR 27, 2006
VOTE: 8:0.
M/S/P, Roth/Fliflet to limit sound to comply with the City Noise Ordinance.
The Planner read from the noise ordinance and said no sound above certain measurable thresholds
should be discernible beyond the property line.
VOTE: 7: 1 Ptacek-The intention was for no amplified sound.
M/S/P, Fliflet/Deziel to remove Number 6 from the standards for Outdoor Social Events limit the
number of hours, not the lateness of hours. 7: 1 Nay~Schneider-Can picture this being a hassle.
M/S/P, Ptacek/Fliflet to move forward with the text amendment for Outdoor Social Events subject to
Conditions 1-9, eliminating Number six and to include the other amendments already made. VOTE:
8:0.
Public Hearing: Consider Code Amendment~
Drive-up Service Window Adjacent to a Restaurant in the GB Zoning District
The Planner provided three separate text amendments. The first could make drive up windows a
conditional use permit, second would be a permitted use, and third would be an accessory use.
THE CHAIRMAN OPENED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 8:25 P.M.
Ed Gorman
Mr. Gorman said he would like to be clear of the differences between restaurants and cafes. Some of
those differences are: utensils and plates that are washed, table service versus counter service, menus
versus menu board , in fast food there are no tips, in restaurants you tip the server. His requested
outdoor menu board would be a marketing tool with less than 10% of his food items on the board.
He solicited support from l00's of customers, many of them local, and from fellow businesses on
Main Street on a petition. He presented the petition where the signers supported the drive-up service
window with intercom and menu board. There is a health and safety issue with the window ordering
option. Mr. Gorman said that Minnesota food code says that all openings to the outside be closed as
much as possible to keep out insects, etc. Flies are an issue in summer. Without the intercom system
and menu board, he cannot envision doing thi s completely and safely for his customers. Lake Elmo
Bank has five speakers. The City could add the provisions for a limited menu board limited to ice
creams and coffees.
Commissioner Deziel asked when does the sit down become secondary to the dri ve-up window? If
you sell the restaurant, that future owner may have a differe nt idea.
Mr. Gorman said a CUP could make the differe nce. This window does not make it fast food. He
will still be classified as a table service restaurant..
THE CHAIRMAN CLOSED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 8:35 P .M.
M/S/P, Ptacek/Schneider to move forward with the definition of drive-up window for cafes and
restaurants in the GB zo ne with adequate stacking of automobiles and an intercom and menu board
prohibited. VOTE: 6:2 ~ Van Zandt and Roth-Feel s that maybe there was more that could be done
to make this a possibility.
City Council Update
Lake Elmo Plannjng Commjssion M eetin g Minutes of March 13, 2006 3
AMEN DE. .... APPROVED: MAR 27, 2006
The Pl a nn er sai d th at o n March 6 , the Council adop te d a reco mm endati o n to upd ate the 1990 P ark
Pl an th rou gh th e hirin g of a consultant in order to expedite the work . T he zoni ng variance fo r H aire
for a large ho me on D eM o ntrevill e a nd Ol so n L akes, was de ni ed 4:0.
The Admini s trato r sai d the Pl annin g Commissio n is in vited to partic ipate in th e Village Area M aster
Pl a n being presented to mo rrow a t the Council Workshop .
Adj ourn e d at 8:52 p.m .
Resp ectfull y submitte d,
/c
Kimberl y An
R ecording Secre tary
Lake E l mo Planning Comm iss ion Meeting Minutes of March 13, 2006 4
CIR•
LAKE City of Lake Elmo
~ 3800 Laverne Avenue North
Lake Elmo , Minnesota 55042
(651) 777-5510 Fax : (65 1) 777-9615
Www.LakeElmo.Org
NOTICE OF MEETING
The City of Lake Elmo
Planning Commission will conduct a meeting on
Monday, March 13, 2006, at 7:00 p.m.
AGENDA
1. Agenda Approval
2. Minutes
a. February 27, 2006
3. PUBLIC HEARING: Variance -Septic within hou se setback
4. PUBLIC HEARING: Consider Code Amendment -Home O ccupation s
5. PUBLIC HEARING: Consider Code Amendment -W edding Ceremonies in
AG Zoning District
6. City Council Update
7. Adjourn
The public is in vited to attend.