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HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-22-2002 MAC and Planning Packet4 CITY OF LAKE AELMO City of Lake Elmo 651/777-5510 3800 Laverne Avenue North / Lake Elmo, MN 55042 MAINTENANCE ADVISORY SPECIAL PROJECTS PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA FOR MONDAY, JULY 22, 2002, 7:00 P.M. y Planning Commission 1. Agenda 2. Minutes of June 10, 2002 3. Conditional Use Permit — Oakdale Gun Club 4. Other Business 5. Adjourn w orkshop with City Council 1. GB Uses and OP Concept Plan Architect Review Maintenance Advisory Special Projects Planning Commission 1. Agenda 2. Minutes of June 24, 2002 3. Community Facilities/Staffing Forecast 4. Other Business 5. Adjourn t�4) printed on recycled paper Approved: June 24, 2002 Maintenance Advisory Special Projects Planning Commission Special Meeting Minutes June 3, 2002 Chairman Armstrong called the Special Meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. Planner Dillerud introduced Paul Steinman and Mikaela Huot of Springsted, Inc. and Terry Olsen of TKDA to present updates and additional information regarding the Community Facilities Forecast Project. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chairman Armstrong, Berg, Sedro, Sessing, Bunn, Deziel, Stanley, Dege, Talcott, and Gustafson. COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: Helwig, Herber, Ptacek, and Taylor. Also present were Fire Chief, Greg Malmquist and City Planner, Charles Dillerud Ms. Olsen She presented a revised population forecast graphic which, based on building permit data of recent years, slightly accelerated projected City growth in the earlier years of the 20 year planning period over earlier forecast models but retained the 2020 total population forecast unchanged from earlier forecast models. She explained that this forecast model was potentially more precise than earlier straight line forecasts but was not as weighted to earlier years of the forecast period as the logarithmic forecast methodology that had been suggested by Commissioner Deziel at the last meeting. She then presented a graphic that revealed that all City community facilities (Public Works, Parks, Fire and Administration) are deficient in size today based on the facility needs methodology utilized by the consultants and Planning Commission. She observed that each operating department would view its space needs to be the most critical but it would be unrealistic to assume that all facilities would be replaced or enlarged simultaneously. Ms. Olsen then presented a second graphic of the consultants' recommended strategy for staging and prioritizing the replacement/enlargement of Lake Elmo community facilities for operating departments. She noted that the following assumptions/strategies were incorporated in the staging and prioritizing recommendations: 1. By focusing on Public Works and Parks first, the needs of two operating departments can be addressed concurrently. 2. The City had completed site acquisition and basic designs for a Public Works/Parks facility in the recent past, so the lead time to get a revised/new project underway would potentially be less than with the other operating departments. 3. The assumption is that Parks/Public Works would be a new facility at a different location than the two existing sites — either the 14 acre site acquired some years ago or another similar site. Upon completion of the new facility, the total existing Public Works facility could be available to the Fire Department as, at least, an interim solution to its space needs. 4. Since current Administration/City Hall space needs are for offices, conference, and records storage, short term solutions (such as temporary mobile annexes) appear feasible and preferable to structural additions to the current City Hall on a site that is too small to accommodate the ultimate building space needs. Annex options for City Hall could be initiated immediately without inordinate cost. 5. At least the site size for a new City Hall should consider the possibility of accommodating municipal (as opposed to contract) Public Safety (policing) in the future. .M!\(. Pliinnin . Coni .iS :t .. Special Approved: June 24, 2002 6. The existing City Hall appears to be considered a local icon — the product of citizen labors. As such, the existing City Hall is a fitting candidate to retain as a Community Center once a new City Hall is constructed. Chairman Armstrong He asked whether the City operating department heads had seen and commented on this facilities prioritization and strategy. Ms. Olsen She responded that the department heads had each been interviewed regarding their perceived departmental space needs and priorities. She also reminded the Commission that she had personally inspected each facility carefully, and had previously reported her findings to the Commission. She advised the Commission that the department heads had not been asked to review and comment on the prioritization and strategy that she had just presented to the Commission, however. Ms. Huot She presented updated data regarding forecasted staffing and City budget based on the growth forecasts from the forecasting model that was presented earlier. She noted that she had again contacted Orono to determine the budgetary impact of the contract Public Safety services they provide surrounding communities. She reported that the $1 million annual revenues from those contracts had not been accounted for in earlier budget work. That omission had incorrectly skewed the graphic relationship between Lake Elmo and the sum the communities utilized for modeling purposes. City Planner He asked the consulting team whether they were satisfied with the relationship between the facilities needs forecasts and the staffing/budget forecasts. Mr. Steinman He responded that they had tested for that relationship, and found the relationship to be sufficiently positive, given the 20 year forecasting window. City Planner He noted for the Commission that the "bottom line" on the staffing/budget forecast had been to maintain the annual budget per capita relationship existing between Lake Elmo and the model communities over the forecast period. This would reflect the efficient Lake Elmo municipal operations that are evidenced today — vis-a-vis other cities. He observed that while the annual budget amount per capita for Lake Elmo would increase, Lake Elmo per capita expenditures for municipal operations would remain lower than the group of model cities selected by the Commission over the entire forecast period. Commissioner Deziel He observed that the per capita Lake Elmo expenditure actually goes down in "2005" versus "2000." He suggested that the difference could be banked by the City, with the excess revenues (over forecasted expenses) by 2002 used to either smooth out future increases or be applied to capital reserves to reduce future bonding requirements. Commissioner Bunn She suggested that prior to submission of the draft report to the Commission, the operating MAC/Planning Commission "s ? ;ei.:.':. Mkxtug ... 2:.02 Approved: June 24, 2002 department heads of the City be requested to review the prioritization and strategy for community facilities expansion/replacement that has been recommended by the consultants, and to submit their written comments to the Commission. She further suggested that those department head comments should accompany the draft report when the report is mailed to the Commission for review. City Planner He advised the Commission that this would be the final working session. The consultants will now prepare a draft final report for consideration, and Commission recommendation to the City Council. Those Commission recommendations could include both Findings and Conditions that could address any further issues, concerns, assumptions, or elaborations the Commission may wish to convey to the City Council regarding this work. The City Planner advised the Commission to limit those comments to a single page. The consulting team concurred with Chairman Armstrong's suggestion that the final draft be prepared and sent to the Commission for consideration at its June 24, 2002 regular meeting — to include the single page commentary of the operating department heads. Chairman Armstrong adjourned the MAC Planning Commission Special Projects meeting at 8:45 PM. Respectfully submitted, Charles E. Dillerud City Planner ":- (..7I'lanntli3r ,:i;r in iS::;t},1 :°ij'ri:Ciu.! %(iC'cu . Junjunc 3. '2002 Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 CITY OF LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES JUNE 10, 2002 Planning Commission Chairman Tom Armstrong called the Planning Commission Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in Council Chambers. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Armstrong, Taylor, Deziel, Bunn, Sedro, Sessing, Berg, and Ptacek. Also present: City Council Members: Mayor Hunt, Rosemary Armstrong, Steve DeLapp, and Chuck Siedow; Old Village Special Projects Planning Commissioners: Wyn John, Jennifer Pelletier, David Herreid, and Todd Williams; City Planner, Charles Dillerud and Administrative Secretary, Kimberly Schaffel. AGENDA M/S Ptacek/Armstrong To accept the Agenda as presented. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. MINUTES The Minutes of May 29, 2002 were amended as follows. With regard to the Patrick Kinney/PJK Realty Variance Application, the Motions and Votes on page 3 should have read, "M/S Ptacek/Sedro To deny the variance application submitted by Patrick Kinney and PJK Realty based upon Findings in the Staff Report of April 3, 2002. VOTE: 3:4 (Deziel/TaylorBunn/Helwig) FAILED." "M/S Deziel/Taylor To approve the application, and instruct staff to prepare Findings in favor of granting this variance, and give them directly to the City Council. VO 1'h: 4:3 (Sedro/Ptacek/Armstrong) PASSED." Page 5, Paragraph 9: One mile away from this site is Westgate. a residential development. Page 6, Paragraph 8: He never anticipated whether properties adjacent to Interstate 94 would use this zoning. M/S Armstrong/Ptacek To accept the Minutes of May 29, 2002 as amended. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. PRELIMINARY PLAT: RECO, LAKE ELMO BUSINESS PARK Staff Report, City Planner, Charles Dillerud A Public Hearing was called to consider a Preliminary Plat to be known as Lake Elmo Business Park, by RECO Real Estate. Notice of Public Hearing was published in the Stillwater Gazette. Affected property owners were notified. This 28.5 acre site is located at the corner of Lake Elmo Avenue and Hudson Boulevard. The existing zoning is GB (General Business). A grading permit was sought and approved in the early 1980's for the southeast portion of the site. In 1999/2000, we had hearings on the Comprehensive Plan and the Land Use Plan classification for that area was discussed. Following those discussions, the applicant appealed to the Metropolitan Council to remain a commercial site. If the site remains classified RAD, we would rezone it within 9 months, and this plat would then be non -conforming. However, we have to acknowledge a preliminary plan submitted under GB. At this time, the zoning supports a plat of this type. We have no idea what the uses would be in this plat. There is a long list of acceptable uses to choose from. The preliminary plat shows seven lots and two outlots. The size and configuration of those lots meet standards of GB or LB. The outlots are located in the northwest and northeast corners of the plat. An Engineered Wetland System would serve all seven lots. The engineering of the wastewater system will be critical, based upon usage, when we get to the final plat. The northeast corner of the plat is to be used for stormwater drainage to serve most of the site. Except for minor setback issues, the plat appears to be in compliance. 50 feet is the standard rear setback for each lot. That should be indicated on the plat as the Code dictates - at 50 feet. The County sent a letter saying they had no objections since the plat proposes no access to a County road. The plat designer made assumptions regarding street right-of-way. One portion of the plat seems to question whether or not the right-of-way is dedicated. Staff would like it dedicated on the final plat. The City of Woodbury asked for a copy of the application materials. We sent them, and received no response. Valley Branch Watershed will not say much until the final plat is presented. Planning Commission Mroil %S J 1.i l'.', i£i, >t}I n Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 The Applicant has not indicated the source of potable water. An Erosion Control Plan is required but was not submitted. The City Engineer requested some supplemental items be submitted; he would like a Traffic Study and Trip Generation Report. Traffic could be a problem on Hudson Boulevard at Lake Elmo or Manning Avenues. These items are not mandated but they may be required, and both the City Engineer and the City Planner recommend them. The Engineer recommended an island in the cul de sac. Other items recommended that should be required are the Declaration of Covenants to show how the wastewater treatment facility will be governed. A Landscape Plan should be applied here because the site is devoid of natural landscaping except for the southeast corner. An Erosion Control Plan will be needed. Trip generation must be based on something, so the possible uses for each of the sites will be necessary. The Planner recommended tabling the application after the Public Hearing to request the recommended information. Commissioner Deziel Tabling would not inhibit their rights. Commissioner Sessing He asked the uses of properties north and east of the site. City Planner North is the golf driving range and there is one residence. The drive-in is east. Northeast is the Non-ag Low Impact Use in the AG Zone. Commissioner Bunn She asked if, at this early stage, we can reasonably request more information about types of businesses to use this site. City Planner It is reasonable because uses could be more intense than streets can accommodate. Commissioner Bunn She said the setbacks need to be modified to conform to the Code. Dave Dunav, Surveyor, Folz, Freeman, & Dunav He did not think a Trip Study would be necessary because the entrance to the site is onto a service road. Setbacks indicated on the plat are building setbacks. If the Commission wants them on the preliminary plat he we will do it. Commissioner Deziel He asked if the septic system would be standard or a wetland system, and whether it must be placed at the northeast end of the site. Dave Dunav, Surveyor, Folz, Freeman, & Dunav The best soils are there; it is the highest area He is not sure whether it wouldbealargedrainfiekiorawetland system. The Chair opened the Public Hearing at 7:34 p.m. Jim Anderson, Homeowner He and his wife Linda own the house adjacent to the northwest corner of the proposed plat. Whatever is done on the site should be done correctly. He would like to know about the wastewater treatment because their home is immediately adjacent to it. If it does not smell, and works okay, he has no objection to it. He would like to know the types of businesses that would occupy the site, the quality of the buildings, how they would sit on the sites, and the tenants. How the site will be utilized impacts him and visitors to the area. There is already a lot of traffic there. The design and construction should be top-notch.z Plan, n:!li�t S..E)%ry:iii�4liii?:.N i dles June l0.2002. Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 Linda Anderson, Homeowner They live where traffic goes by. They frequently see accidents on the other side of the freeway. When the drive-in lets out there are many close calls. She would like to see a traffic study done for that area, and asked when it will be done. The Chair closed the Public Hearing at 7:37 p.m. Commissioner Deziel The Building Code requires high quality. If the wastewater system is located where it is indicated on the preliminary plat, The Andersons will have 320 feet of buffered open space. Commissioner Bunn She asked what type of traffic study would be done; whether it would study only the number of trips or if it would also address the impact. The City Engineer should look at cumulative impact. M/S Ptacek/Berg To table the application pending submission of supplemental information as recommended by the City Planner. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. SECTION 520 SITE PLAN FOR GORMAN'S RESTAURANT Staff Report. City Planner, Charles Dillerud This 4.4 acre site remains as it was created in 1973. A proposed expansion in 1982 was reduced in scale because of the highway setback. Valley Branch Watershed suggested at the time that the parking lot expansion be excluded from the expansion plans. The wastewater treatment system was upgraded in 1991. Handicap accessibility was added in 1995. A sizable addition is now proposed. The addition at the rear would be the building that was moved onto the site. Decking will also be added. There is also a planned addition to the foyer. The site would be more formalized. Paving will be done at the rear of the restaurant for parking. They will raise the elevation there. The big mound of dirt, a bone of contention in the past, will be used to elevate the rear parking area. There will be a new stormwater drainage pond. There is room to add on to the present wastewater treatment facility. A tower and dormers will be added, and the addition will maintain the same roof line as the historic building being added. Wood removed from the area getting stone facing will be moved to the addition so the treatment looks the same throughout. The GB Zone has new exterior surfacing rules adopted 60 days ago by the City Council. This project is probably exempt since it increases building area less than 100%. They propose to use existing surfacing, and while the stone may not be to Code, it probably meets the intent. A substantial amount of paving is to be added to the existing parking lot. As proposed, the applicant would like to continue to have parking along Highway 5. That parking lot is right on the right-of-way. Setbacks for parking there are not met. The Twin Points' parking lot was permitted to remain, and no variance was granted for it. The Commission may treat this the same, deny the parking, or entertain a variance. A variance cannot be done tonight; there was no notice for a public hearing. Some landscape island areas are indicated on the Site Plan but the Planner has no idea of the Landscaping Plan for those islands. In lieu of setback for the front parking lot, Mr. Gorman has suggested he work out with Mn/DOT as to how to landscape in the right-of-way. The site is 200 square feet short of landscape island at the rear. Surface water drainage is the number one issue in the Old Village. City Code says you shall not have more water leaving a site post -development than pre -development. The City Engineer has no surface water calculation for the new stormwater drainage pond to see if it can handle all the water that will be leaving the site. Also, is the capacity of the existing drainfield enough to handle future uses? Staff recommends approval subject to the conditions in the Staff Report, with drainage calculations confirmed by the City Engineer, and confirmation by a septic system designer that the existing system is of adequate size Pianninq E::nniis ior \ n u e .tine 10, 2002 Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 prior to the application being sent to the City Council. Staff would also like to see the Landscape Plan for the highway area and the restaurant. The Planner is not addressing the setback issue for parking on Highway 5. If it is determined that a variance is necessary, he would recommend tabling this application until then. Commissioner Bunn She asked if Mr. Gorman anticipates pedestrian access, sidewalks, or paths adjacent to the north parking area along the right of way. She asked the Planner if they were desired in the future, would those then be in the right-of-way or in the business setbacks. City Planner The ditch section on a big part of the highway prohibits it but this site could potentially take a trail. Commissioner Ptacek He asked if the speed limit has already slowed down there. City Planner It has but not much before there. Dave Herreid The drainage ditch running east of the site could use some work. With spring runoff, the retaining walls at this site are showing their age. Railroad ties are falling because erosion took a lot of it away. Ed Gorman, Owner He bought the restaurant in 1980. Erosion took away much of the parking lot and the retaining walls. Those will be refurbished. He will have the walking bridge refurbished. The pile of dirt will be used to raise the level of the parking lot at the rear of the site. Schiltgen field drains across the parking lot. He has a Civil Engineer and Linders working on a plan. He provided a detailed Landscape Plan but it is not attached to the Staff Report. Mn/DOT provided him with a list of plants that would be acceptable along the right-of-way. The City put in flowering crabs but half are dead due to salty conditions. Five in front of his restaurant are dead. They flowered on the field side. He has hired a septic system designer. His current dishwasher uses one gallon opposed to three gallons before. He is the only property owner around who ponds his water. Todd Williams His only concern is proximity of the drainage pond to the drainfield should it overflow. Ed Gorman There is a berm that will prevent that. This pond is also located away from the City drainfield. City Planner Groundwater migration is a function for the septic designer. It is a valid concern because we have a 201 system just to the south of this site. Ed Gorman It has to be ponded. City Planner We may have to specify a pond lined with clay to keep water from migrating into either drainfield. Rosemary Armstrong The parking lot being composed entirely of asphalt results in a large amount of impervious surface. Ed Gorman That part of the parking lot is currently graveled. Juno 10, Rosemary Armstrong She said compacted gravel is not impervious. She asked if the drainfield is just his or the neighbor's too. Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 Ed Gorman Gorman's only. Commissioner Berg He stated his preference would be to continue parking within the right-of-way because it is allowed for a similar site, and would allow for more flexibility with stormwater management. He hoped the City would have the opportunity to work with the applicant to deal with stormwater drainage issues which affect the Old Village. He also suggested constructing the required landscape island into a stormwater retention pond. Ed Gorman Yes, and then buffer it with landscaping. City Planner There is no provision in the Code for preserving a non -conforming parking setback situation. The Commission did the same for Twin Points. The ponds are in the south portion of the site to handle stormwater, while the north portion can have parking. The site is a sort of gateway to the Old Village. Commissioner Deziel He commended the applicant for preserving the old railroad building because of its historical significance. The applicant is integrating it well with the existing building. M/S Ptacek/Taylor To approve based on Findings in the Staff Report but add to Item 3 of conditions, "Submission of landscape plan and approval by Mn/DOT." VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. Chairman Armstrong A similar site was allowed to retain parking even when non -conforming to the setback. He asked what action would trigger modification of that setback. There appears to be no guiding in the Code. City Planner Non- conforming setbacks can even be increased in some cases, everything except parking setbacks is addressed by the City Code. Commissioner Ptacek We allowed some others like Lake Elmo Oil and Lake Elmo Repair to be right up to the right-of-way. Grandfathering grants some rights that we shouldn't take away. ADJOURN at 8:15 p.m. RECONVENE at 8:25 p.m. OLD VILLAGE SPECIAL PROJECTS PLANNING COMMISSION Staff Reuort, Citv Planner. Charles Dillerud The topic of tonight's meeting is Sidewalks and Streetscapes in the Old Village. The Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission meets periodically, discussing the implementation of what Thorbeck designed for the City two years ago. We have concepts that we thought were a good idea, and included them in our Comprehensive Plan. The County will not participate with us. All we have is the City share of tax abatement which is $88,000 and going up by $50-60,000 each of the next eight years. A portion was originally allocated to the Old Village as backup to financing the water system improvements; the balance is dedicated to Old Village Improvements without specificity. The Council did not commit abatement to the water system financing plan recently approved. Right-of-way improvements to include drainage were the first order of business. The Commission made a recommendation to the City Council to hire an engineer to accomplish something like the Thorbeck plan. The Council decided not to go forward. Planning Comm;ssion i €ne i0. 2002 Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 The Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission requested this joint meeting to find out what the City Council wants them to do. Mayor Hunt Part of what was withheld was due to the Council's uncertainty about spending money on the water system. Councilmember DeLann Lake Elmo is not getting and receiving what other cities get from the County with tax abatement. They subsidize their development. So we have to subsidize the Old Village. Maybe we can do a match for in -kind donations by residents. That might give it momentum. Commissioner Herreid As a business owner in the Old Village, he has been struggling with sidewalks and drainage for 10 years. The fire department siren goes off pointed at this building. The department is looking at whether it might make sense to place sirens throughout the City or sirens that turn. Anything presented by the Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission was never addressed by the City Council. Tabling the sidewalk stuff means the Council is not living up to their responsibility to the City's infrastructure. Councilmember DeLann At Hamlet on Sunfish Lake, the residents raised the funds to add supplemental landscaping to their boulevards. They had drainage issues in those lakes. We helped them financially to accomplish those goals. Commissioner Herreid By addressing the infrastructure of the Old Village we are increasing its value. It is time to deal with the Village. This Commission is composed of individuals who want to be involved, and contribute their time. Do not ask them to be on committees then ignore everything they recommend. Councilmember Armstrong Stormwater money should not be used for this at all. City Planner Those stormwater monies are not intended for this type of work. Is this a stormwater issue or an aesthetic improvement issue? Councilmember Armstrong Sidewalks are a visible thing. The City has been subsidizing the Old Village for a long time. Most residents have separate water systems yet are paying for the Old Village system as well. The Council is not overlooking and abandoning the Old Village; it is not getting short-changed. Commissioner Williams This Commission has told the City Council for more than six months that we have the money; it is supposed to go to improvements for infrastructure. We are very unhappy that the Council has not acted on our request. Councilmember Armstrong The school district and County dropped out of tax abatement for Lake Elmo. Commissioner Williams We always knew what our portion of these projects would be. We are not speaking of millions of dollars. It is just a short distance - from Highway 5 to the railroad tracks, on both sides of Lake Elmo Avenue. Mayor Hunt There should be a better way to design sidewalks with curbs and gutters to be proactive, and help the ponding issue. City Planner Yes, with a little bit of design work, there may be other ways of addressing stormwater problems. Commissioner John 1 June 140, 1 0_ Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 There is frustration with the City Council among the members of the Old Village Commission. Maybe we can get some design studies, and organize the sidewalks. The City Council never communicated why the recommendation was turned down. Councilmember Siedow Sidewalks down by the post office and library are dangerous in the winter. In the Old Village, stormwater runoff is the most important thing. Water is ponding in his yard. This is a very bad problem in the Old Village since the drainage was dammed by the downstream field owner. Their must be a way to carry the water all the way through the City. Councilmember DeLann He supports any integral design plan incorporating sidewalks, road width, landscaping, and drainage. City Planner Councilmember Siedow's drainage situation is far beyond Lake Elmo Avenue. Solving that problem is not the same discussion. Stormwater is bigger than just the Old Village. Councilmember DeLanp_ He thinks they should be solved concurrently. Mayor Hunt He goes along with Councilmember DeLapp. He supports the design of the streetscape but is concerned about surface water runoff. The money the City has should be used to measure impacts and mitigations. That is why the City chose not to rebuild LaVeme Avenue. Wet basements and flooding are problems. The swale across from Schiltgen's property causes problems. We must figure out a solution to all of that. Sidewalks in the Old Village should not be that big an additional problem. He would like to look at an integrated plan. City Planner Is the City prepared to commit the necessary resources? Mayor Hunt Yes, then we can analyze the drainage separately or concurrently. The City is well -funded for surface water runoff. City Planner We may have other resources as well. Mayor Hunt The City is well -funded on surface water runoff. Councilmember Armstrong The first step is to have an engineer look at it. She thinks sidewalks are a big part of the stormwater problem, and should be last on the priority list. Councilmember John He supports Councilmember Siedow. It is basic to the health, safety, and welfare of the City. Schiltgen filled his swale to flatten the land in order to plant it. We need to ask him to correct the problem. We need to look at where the swale used to be, and create a wetland or holding pond so the water will not back up on the berm. Then we need to look further away at Down's Lake. All of this should be done in combination. Councilmember Siedow Sidewalks are a small issue compared to runoff, especially considering the number of septic systems in this City. All this water running over the drainfields and going into our farms and our food is a serious concern. The City Council should really be working on it, and it should be a separate thing. Mayor Hunt We need to begin the preliminary work. Maybe we need piping around or through Schiltgen's property. TKDA should have some engineering information regarding this problem. He will vote to spend the money to get the consultant. If we can do the stormwater stuff at the same time, we will do that too. Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 City Planner He will put this on the City Council agenda, and get a TKDA quote. He thought the Environmental Commission was charged to look at the stormwater problems. Commissioner Williams The problem has been bouncing around for at least 15 years. Finally the City has some money to work with. He encouraged the City Council to spend that money. Councilmember Siedow Health, safety, and welfare should be the priority. Mayor Hunt He believes it is appropriate to put that money into the budget because a new budget cycle is about to begin. Commissioner Bers Stormwater is not an Old Village issue. Down's Lake improvements were recently approved by the City Council. That is the tail end of the watershed; the beginning is Sunfish Ponds. We need to look at it in a broader context. Can old TKDA studies be found? We need to keep stormwater where it drops. City Planner Ponds are east of Sunfish as you approach this direction. The water goes under Highway 5 when it rains hard. Commissioner Sedro She supports an integrated approach. Sidewalks are great but not a logical first step. She likes what she is hearing. Mayor Hunt We are talking about the whole streetscape design. City Planner The cost will be about $15-20,000 for just the design. City Planner Maybe $1-2 million, depending on if we do it in stages. Councilmember DeLapp It will probably be proportionate to the design cost. Mayor Hunt He will vote to go ahead with the design and the stormwater issue. Joint Commission The Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission's opinion is that it appeared that all Council Members present were in agreement. OTHER BUSINESS City Planner The Met Council has sent us an answer to our Comp Plan; they will make the decision about it soon. The City Council will have a workshop on this tomorrow at 5 p.m. All available Commissioners are asked to attend. Councilmember DeLapp It is important to have ideas of what we have to do, the time we have, and what the sequence should be. Met Council is talking about a 1.5 billion dollar investment against the Comp Plan; it will be very hard for us to fight it financially. Woodbury was blown under by developers. Commissioner Taylor Tanning Cliinimissi June 00. 2002 Will they make a decision on June 26? Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 City Planner They will be in tough shape if they do not make a decision by August. Councilmember DeLapp Everything was in place over one year ago but they pretended it was not there. ADJOURN 9:04 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Kimberly Sch`affel Recording Secretary €;ins it). >007. LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF REPORT Date: July 18, 2002 for the Meeting of July 22, 2002 Applicant: Oakdale Gun Club Location: 10386 10th Street North Requested Action: Conditional Use Permit Amendment Land Use Plan Guiding: AG (Agriculture) Existing Zoning: AG (Subject to a Conditional Use Permit) Site History and Existing Conditions: The City (and East Oakdale Township) file on this 62 acre site extend back to 1965; and, the use of the site as a gun club likely extends even further back in time. There have been several actions for the City regarding the gun club, including extensive activity in 1981-1982. The last formal renewal of the "Master" Conditional Use Permit was in 1988 (Resolution #88-5). The City approved an amendment to that CUP in 1998 (Resolution #98-58) to permit construction of a new caretaker residence, a garage related to the residence; and, an accessory storage structure. The 62 acre site is divided into a 22 acre east portion (where no structures or formal range facilities are located); and, a 40 acre west portion (upon which all structures and formal range facilities are located). The 1998 application for an amended CUP resulted in a lengthy Planning Staff description of a zoning issue related to an earlier mass rezoning of large portions of undeveloped land in Lake Elmo to OP. (including the 22 acre east Gun Club site). While the issue appears to remain pending the general city-wide rezoning actions that will follow the activation of the new Land Use Plan, this application for CUP amendment again relates to a facility on the west 40 acres (properly zoned AG), so we will not address the OP zoning matter further at this time. The City has no record of violations of the 19988 CUP or formal complaints regarding Gun Club operations; and, the conditions to the approval of the 1998 CUP amendment have been complied with by the applicant. Discussion and Analysis: The applicant's propose to amend the CUP to permit improvements to the "25 yard range" — located at the east extremity of the west 40 acres, about 600 feet north of 10th Street. ( and not visible from loth Street). It is proposed to construct an extension to the existing acoustic/weather cover of the range that would extend the cover an additional 50 feet "down range" from the 20 foot cover that is now in place. The new range cover would be an open —sided structure (similar to a park shelter), with rubber sound baffles extending down from the ceiling. The overall dimensions of the range cover extension would be 62 feet horizontal (cross range) by 50 feet vertical (down range). The roof height is proposed to be approximately 13 feet at the peak. A Public Hearing has been properly Noticed, and should be conducted by the Planning Commission. Findings and Recommendations: Historically, and to this day, the Oakdale Gun Club appears to have remained a "good neighbor" in Lake Elmo. This proposal to amend the CUP for the use to improve neighborliness by further reducing the noise level from Club activities is viewed by Planning Staff in a positive context. As with any application for a CUP (or Amendment) this application should be addressed as to its compliance with the CUP Findings prescribed by Section 300.06, Subd. 4, Para.A of the City Code. In that regard, Staff suggests the following: 1. The proposed CUP amendment will not result in additional impact on the public health, safety , morals or general welfare of surrounding property. Operations of the gun club will not be altered as a result of the CUP amendment. The impact of the existing operations resulting in noise will be reduced as a result of the CUP Amendment. 2. Traffic impacts of the use will not change as a result of the CUP amendment. 3. Effect on public utilities and school capacity are not applicable.] 4. There will be no changes in visual impact of the use, but adjoining properties will benefit from the amendment by reduction of noise levels generated by the use. 5. The amendment does not have an impact on the Comprehensive Plan. Based on the foregoing, Staff recommends approval of the CUP amendment. Planning Commission Actions Requested: Motion to recommend approval of an amendment to the Conditional Use Permit of the Oakdale Gun Club to permit a 68 foot by 50 foot extension of the noise abatement cover on the 25 yard range, based on the Findings of the Planning Staff Report dated July 18, 2002 and per plans staff -dated Jul 18, 2002. Charles E. Dillerud, City Planner Attachments: 1. Location Map 2. CUP Site Plan (Pre-1998 Amendments) 3. Resolution #98-58 4. Resolution #88 — 5 5. Applicant's Documentation Site J NorthOth St 1 Location Map - I I 1221W I22OW A194/ 7,22W 821W WOW Vicinity Map 0 1409 Scale in Feet usWd M▪ °nP`en tamp Me.n. ▪ ::mow Hots. w..nmman Ca.nM: b masons!. for any inassuractes_ Be. Conn* e.. M... m �. Sarre..Sarre.. os1>.meus Nisei m� da:;,am0Mmm.mn .:oa�n.,:,a 0,1002 N0I:1N pHOMM OAKnAU GUN CI.U3 40 AC. PAUI. (0001) 0 001%\ 120' 0 OAK2ALt GUN CLUI3 22 AC. I'AUI. (001) CENTEp 0F SECTION 50LITH ITOMt?11' LINE 635.5' • q, 1Oth5.1:Uf 5, I/4C01:, 5C110N 26, 1-291\1,1?21W bAVln NELSON F5fA1f s CITY OF LAKE ELMO WASHINGTON COUNTY. MINNESOTA RESOLUTION NO. 98-58 A RESOLUTION GRANTING A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AMENDMENT TO THE OAKDALE GUN CLUB TO ALLOW CONSTRUCTION OF A CARETAKER RESIDENCE AND STORAGE BUILDING WHEREAS, the Oakdale Gun Club (Permitee) represents that it is the record fee owner of the following described property situated in Washington County, Minnesota: The property is legally described as (Section 26, Township 29, Range 21) Commencing at The northeast corner of said southeast quarter of the southwest quarter; thence along the east line thereof 212 feet to the point of beginning; thence west parallel to the north line thereof 796 feet; thence south parallel to the west line thereof the distance of 918 feet; thence east parallel to the south line of said southeast quarter of the southwest quarter of distance of 796 feet to the east line thereof; thence north on said east line to the point of beginning; to be used as a rifle range together with the rights of ingress and egress to said property of the southeast quarter of the southwest quarter, Township 29, Range 21, Section 26 and commonly known as 10386 10th Street N., Lake Elmo, MN. WHEREAS, on August 7,1998, Permitee submitted an Application to the City of Lake Elmo for an amendment to its original conditional use permit approved by the City by Resolution No. 88-5. The amendment is to permit construction of a 1,175 square foot residence; 832 square foot attached garage; and a 2,280 square foot detached accessory storage building per plans dated July 10, 1998. WHEREAS, the Application was reviewed and recommended for approval by the Planning Commission at a public hearing on September 14, 1998. WHEREAS, the Application, the recommendations of the Planning Commission, and the recommendations of the Staff were reviewed and the Application was approved by the City Council on September 16, 1998. NOW, THEREFORE, the City Council makes the following findings: 1. The proposed CUP Amendment will not result in additional impact on the public health, safety, morals or general welfare of surrounding property. The operation of the Gun Club will not be altered from that which presently is experienced as the result of this amendment. 2. The anticipated traffic conditions related to the use of this site may actually improve as the result of this amendment by the substantially increased setback of the residence, and the enhanced traffic stacking area from 10'h Street. 3. Effect on public utilities and school capacity is not applicable. 4. There may be improved visual impact and adjoining property values resulting from removal of the barn and existing residence. While the existing land use (target range) appears to be inconsistent with the Comprehensive Plan since 1996, the single family residence and storage building replacement proposed by this application as an amendment to the existing Conditional Use Permit would not be. WHEREAS, the Application, the recommendations of the Planning Commission, and the recommendations of the Staff were reviewed and the Application was approved by the City Council on September 16, 1998. FURTHER, BE IT RESOLVED that a CUP amendment is hereby issued to Permitee, its successors and assigns, to permit construction of the residence and storage building subject to the following conditions:. 1. Compliance with all terms and conditions of City Council Resolution No. 88-5, Approving a Conditional Use Permit for an outdoor target range to Oakdale Gun Club. 2. Demolition of the existing residence. 3. Amendment of the Land Use Element of the Comprehensive Plan to reclassify the west 40 acres of the Oakdale Gun Club property from OP (Open Space Preservation) to RAD (Rural Agricultural). The reguiding of the land should be in the context of the overall Comprehensive Plan Amendment. APPROVED by the Lake Elmo City Council on the 6th day of October, 1998. Lee Hunt, Acting Mayor ATTEST: Mary Kue ner, City Xeknistrator RESOLUTION 88-5 CITY OF LAKE ELMO WASHINGTON COUNTY, MINNESOTA A RESOLUTION GRANTING A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO OAKDALE GUN CLUB FOR OUTDOOR TARGET RANGE IN THE AGRICULTURAL ZONING DISTRICT WHEREAS, Oakdale Gun Club has applied for a Conditional Use Permit for an Outdoor Target Range on SE1/4 of SW1/4 of Section 26,T29,R21, subject to easement, located at 10386 North loth Street in the City of Lake Elmo; and has submitted all required information and fees for the application for such permit; and, WHEREAS, Section 301.070 D.b. of the Municipal Code of Lake Elmo requires a Conditional Use Permit to operate an Outdoor Target Range in the City of Lake Elmo; and, WHEREAS, Section 1300 of the ZONING ORDINANCE of the Municipal Code of Lake Elmo sets forth the conditions under which said permit may be granted and such use permitted; and WHEREAS, the applicant meets or exceeds all the conditions set forth above. NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED by the City Council of the City of Lake Elmo, THAT, the Conditional Use Permit for Outdoor Target Range at 10386 10th Street North, Lake Elmo, Minnesota is hereby granted to Oakdale Gun Club, subject to the following conditions: 1. Fencing a. Additional fencing, if any, along the north border (common border with County Park) to be accomplished per agreement between Club and County Director of Planning. b. Fencing along east and west borders to be accomplished if and when adjacent properties are developed to the extent that fencing is necessary. A determination as to when the adjacent properties are sufficiently developed to require fencing will be made at the time of permit renewal in future years. 2. Weapons on the shotgun range shall be limited to fine shot (#6 shot) on the shotgun range. 3. There will be no expansion at the present location without an abatement to this permit. 4. The names of lead range officers and a schedule of events with the officer in charge shall be provided to the Washington County Sheriff. This Conditional Use Permit will be reviewed on an annual basis, and may be rescinded, after a 2 week notice and a public hearing, if the City Council finds that the public health, safety, or welfare is jeopardized. ADOPTED, this 5th day of January 1988, by the City Council of the City of Lake Elmo, Washington County, Minnesota.21 Attest: Signed Arlyn Christ, Mayor Mary Kuefifner, City Administrator go o �1 "IIVACI NIl003 Zo Rtt g 11:14 P140 fi Ob. Wer fil r.a R !CE VEX) iv 2- V nO2 CITY OF LAKE ELMO 1 OAKDALE GUN CLU .R 25 YD. RANGE IVEATNER AND ACOUSTIC COVER 10386 I R n 110111811113=T Lam euHO, MR1€80TA 58042 • ce see NUIVIONZWIN VERen MCA apt.% f gPIPq I 1 III114 5 € It ti s ir4r isle Aam Ndt ask! We alrtAlg kflg-tgPik ICI igli!!!;:! alp imp I���7''`` it 4r p y g !I gg. ...:::p 5' p fill ; P140 11 1 LI 2 g alli 1:4: 84 ! 2!; $ j4; g gloomy...ft 11 1 1 511 3 1 Ail qz? iaqM4J !Jail P 1 51 PI I IT; qb Ifl 03 le qN ag g $4gs!' I :4 itiL a To: Lake Elmo From: Chuck MEMO (July 18, 2002) g Commission Subject: Workshop — GB Uses and OP Concept Plan Architect Review At your last meeting you requested the City Council to set a Workshop with the Planning Commission to discuss the captioned issues. The Council had previously directed the Planning Commission to study both issues and provide a recommendation for any City Code amendments. I have attached a copy of my earlier Memo to the Commission on these subjects. MEMO (June 20, 2002) To: Lake Elmo Planning Commission From: Chuck Dillerud Subject: Council Directives — June 18, 2002 At its June 18, 2002 meeting the City Council adopted two directives to staff regarding matters that require review and recommendation of the Planning Commission; and, amendment to the Zoning Ordinance: 1. The Council is concerned with more recent OP Concept Plans that have been presented to the City. While they concede that the plans may meet the quantitative specifications of the ordinance, the more qualitative aspects of project design have not been as completely addressed as they were with some of the earlier OP projects (such as Fields I. and Hamlet on Sunfish Lake). These later Concept Plans have not addressed such matters as house design, view sheds, environmental aspects of the site, and project landscaping in the degree of detail that the Council intended with the original OP Ordinance. As such, the Council does not believe that some of the more recent OP Concept Plans have responded well to intent of the OP Ordinance. The Council has directed staff and the Commission to address amending the OP Ordinance to require all Concept Plans to be reviewed by an independent and licensed architect or (preferably) a licensed landscape architect, to be selected by the City, but the professional fee of which would be paid by the project applicant — in addition to the normal staff review and report. 2. The Council has expressed concern with the General Business District listing of Permitted and Conditional Uses. As with the Limited Business District list of uses we just completed review of, the Council is concerned the General Business use listing was created decades ago, based mostly on the County Model Ordinance and uses that existed in the City at that time — many of which still exist, of course. They are concerned that some of the listed uses would no longer be compatible with the City's development policies, as expressed by the Comp Plan. — at least in locations other than the Old Village Commercial area. The concern goes to the potential, with all of those uses available, of creating remote islands of heavily commercial use is areas of the City other than the Old Village — contrary to the policies of the Comp Plan that specify that such uses should be limited to the Old Village. Of course, the intent of those policies regarding such commercial uses is to insure Lake Elmo retails a Rural Center development structure rather than the scattered outcome that we see in so many "typical" suburban communities. That scattered outcome, in turn, results in a loss of the sense of community. The Council is, as well, concerned that changes to the General Business District not negatively impact the Old Village commercial area. Before staff begins preparation of analysis and Code amendment drafts — or schedules any Hearings — we are interested in the Commission's direction regarding how (or even if) they would want to address these to topics. I suppose the Commission could decide to recommend to the Council that nothing be changed on one or both of the topics. CITY OF LAKE ELMO MAINTENANCE ADVISORY SPECIAL PROJECTS PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES JUNE 24, 2002 Planning Commission Chairman Tom Armstrong called the Joint Meeting of the Maintenance Advisory Special Projects Planning Commission to order at 7:00 p.m. in Council Chambers. PLANNING COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Armstrong, Deziel, Bunn, Sessing, Berg, Helwig, Ptacek. MAC COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Dege, Talcott, and Stanley. Also present: City Planner, Charles Dillerud, Fire Chief Malmquist, and Administrative Secretary, Kimberly Schaffel. AGENDA M/S Sessing/Armstrong To accept the Agenda as presented. VOTE: 11:0 PASSED. MAC MINUTES OF JUNE 3, 2002 Commissioner Bunn noted that the portion of the line at the top of page 3 that states, "Not to exceed a page in length," were not her words, and she requested deletion. The Commission agreed to amend Page 3, paragraph 2, to add, "The City Planner advised the Commission to limit those comments to a single page," and delete the portion that Commissioner Bunn referenced. M/S Helwig/Deziel To accept the Minutes as amended. VOTE: 11:0 PASSED. PZ MINUTES OF JUNE 10, 2002 The minutes of the last Planning Commission Meeting were not reviewed. COMMUNITY FACILITIES/STAFFING FORECAST Staff Report, City Planner, Charles Dillerud The City Planner did not think the draft study received early the prior week was complete enough to mail to department heads, and it is too large to study in the short time since its arrival in a more complete form. He recommends setting up a workshop with department heads, council members, and commissioners to discuss the draft. The two lead consultants are present. The ultimate destination for the Facilities Plan is the City Council for approval. The study would then become part of the Comprehensive Plan. Paul Steinman and Dick Thompson, TKDA They presented highlights of the draft study as found in Chapter 7 - Findings, Conclusions and Recommendations. The heart of the study was the pre -selection of 8 cities to compare with Lake Elmo. Commissioner Bunn She asked why they went back to the old approach of using the entire Twin Cities Region. The preliminary forecasts for households and people are very different from Met Council's new 2030 projections. TKDA should incorporate those new figures, at least, for the purpose of discussion. Dick Thompson and Paul Steinman They used that profile because of growth over the next twenty years. The recommendation is not to cut yourselves short for land or building facilities. You do not have to build that large but allow room for growth and expansion. You may still grow beyond 2020, and a population of 12,500. MitlUktS June 2.1.2002 City Planner It was coincidental that we met the 2020 population forecast given us by Met Council in preparation of the 2020 Plan. Commissioner Deziel We hired these consultants, and should use their numbers. Paul Steinman and Dick Thompson Dick spoke with staff in many of these cities. Two cities just built city halls over 11,000 square feet. Both are young, and will experience considerable growth. They discovered that the younger the building, the larger it was built. Some of the fire hall data will be revised as it is acquired. Some cities have built far into the future. The addition of employees is timed with the expansion of facilities. Commissioner Stanley Estimated populations should be indicated as a reminder when you are projecting for future years. Commissioner Deziel In the year 2015, 10 of those 14 additional staff are police. Commissioner Berg He asked if we discussed police service with Washington County,', and if there are cut-off policies. Paul Steinman The County is fighting to keep those contracts. City Planner There may be community interest in local policing in later years. Dick Thomason and Paul Steinman Lake Elmo does not contract for snow plowing, other cities do. While we may be satisfied with police now, that could change when costs rise. Per square foot building costs are accurate. Programming and design costs are far less accurate. Most of our facilities are in good shape but they are too small, and are bursting at the seams. City Hall is most grossly undersized. Temporary facilities should be found while you are searching for land located in the Old Village for a City Hall of at least 11,000 square feet, estimated at $1.4 million. When the new City Hall is built, convert the old building into a community center. Fire facilities are neither large enough nor up to date enough. They suggest we hire someone to look at the overall system. TKDA is not qualified to do that. A Fire Hall is very specialized; it includes showers, eyewash stations, and a place for hazardous wastes. They are state of the art; they need more equipment and more space. The old Fire Hall site could be reused for a downtown -type use. The Parks Facility is most valuable for the land. Most cities include Parks in Maintenance. Commissioner Stanley The charts in the draft study are difficult to read in black and white. N1=it.; 4'ia,nil_ i.o711mizz>If)if I;f;U 1unt 24, 2002 Commissioner Deziel He appreciates the need for a fire consultant. The study provides a framework to work from. Overall it looks practical. Paul Steinman and Dick Thomason Operationally, these are the leanest staffing levels to maintain the same level of service now provided. Commissioner Bunn She would like to see income levels as compared to other cities. Tax rates were not compared. Dick Thompson and Paul Steinman The City must move forward. Anything is acceptable except inaction. Momentum is growing. ADJOURN 8:00 p.m. RECONVENE at 8:05 p.m. MAC: SIREN PROJECT Staff Report, City Planner, Charles Dillerud The issue of sirens is discussed every year during Capital Improvement time Fire Chief Malmquist obtained information from Washington County to learn what siren coverage is available from existing sirens in surrounding communities. Oakdale has almost wall-to-wall coverage, and overlaps slightly into Lake Elmo. Coverage on the south end of Lake Elmo is by Woodbury, Cimarron and the fire station. Oak Park Heights has a bit of overlap too He displayed the City Land Use Map overlaid with existing siren coverage to present required coverage over the highest population density in the city. There are two types of popular sirens, 128 db rotating give one mile radius under certain conditions. Sound reduces with distance, and the distance or edge is where the sound drops to 70 db. That assumes there are no interfering buildings, hills, or large trees. Commissioner DeEe He asked about coverage during wind or storms. City Planner This plan represents the minimum coverage the City could deal with. Lake Elmo Park Reserve should provide for itself. In the proposed plan, there are very few dead spots; some of them are very small. This afternoon the FEMA schedule came. They use the same radius the Planner used in his presentation. The plan is for six new facilities, and replacement of one of the old sirens. The Old Village Fire Station siren could be relocated to the park area just north of 30th Street. After examination, he is unsure the Old Village siren is worth moving. The primary vendor of sirens had very small price increases since 1999. A large, single, rotating siren is $16,000 installed with backup battery, pole, etc. Small units with a series of horns are less effective but are closer to $12,000 installed on the pole. He reviewed the Capital Schedule through 2006 which includes the Civil Defense Fund. $7,000 will be added this year, for a total of $32,000 at end of this year. The Capital Improvement Project is coming up in July. The Commission may wish to get a change in funding. $40,000 could get it started in some combination in 2003. If the Commission only wanted to buy two at first, they should be placed in the northwest quarter of the City where population is greater. Most of the new ones would be located in parks. The Jesuit Retreat might be a problem even though it is an ideal location for coverage.. Commissioners Helwie and Deziel They thought the Planner did a good job with research, design, and presentation. Commissioner Sessing Maybe one siren could be eliminated if we locate them differently — accounting for Oakdale overlap. Commissioner Dege Maybe a smaller one could be used if we move them a little bit closer together. Commissioner Helwig He said the sirens blow at noon and 9 p.m. because of tradition. Fire Chief Malmquist Guys working at the lumberyard use the whistle to respond to fire calls. Commissioner Stanley What does the plan look like topographically? City Planner That is the next step. Elevations may make a difference. Fire Chief Malmquist Does the smaller siren have battery backup? Whenever are no sirens. City Planner The siren at Cimarron is not backed up, and neither he one at the fire station. big storm, we lose power, and there Fire Chief Malmquist They could leave the Old Village siren there until it dies. City Planner There is the potential for the purchase of three in 2003 but we have to ask the City Council for more money. He is ambivalent about the Old Village siren. Commissioner Bunn The Old Village siren could still be used for fire calls but not for everything. Commissioner Stanley Use it just for emergencies. Commissioner Deziel Do they have to sound the siren at noon and 9? City Planner He will ask the City Council. Each existing siren costs $1500 to upgrade to batteries. ' inuic: tsnc :'4.. 2002 Commissioner Bunn She would like to have sirens at Tartan Park. Tornado emergencies are particularly dangerous to people outside. She is concerned about the Cimarron siren not having battery backup. City Planner Cimarron owns it. Fire Chief Malmquist He requested we have a plan laid out and sirens in place before the next storm season in order to get the coverage we want. We have experienced some very serious storms the last few years. He would like to see us get Washington County on board, and part of this program. M/S Dege/Sessing The first two locations should be installed in 2003, based on population. In 2004, we should install the number six siren, hopefully with a slightly larger budget in the CIP by adding about $9,000 per year. Try to rearrange the plan to eliminate one of the sirens if possible. VOTE: 11:0 PASSED. City Planner He will take it to the Council, and bring it back after the CIP, if they approve and concur. Commissioner Bunn She liked the idea of coordinating with the County. Depending where they might locate a siren in Lake Elmo Park Reserve, there might be additional overlap Fire Chief Malmquist He thought we had $35,000 in the budget this year. 2003 puts us into another full storm season. Could poles and power be installed with existing money this year, and get the sirens up prior to next year's storm season? Commissioner Dege He thought that was a good suggest` City Planner That is an operational issue that can be looked at. MAC: ADJOURN 8:40 p.m. CONVENE AS PLANNING COMMISSION Staff Report, City Planner, Charles Dillerud The City Council has asked for thoughts on two issues. One is the OP Concept Plans; the City Council is disappointed with the nature of plans for recent projects. Quantitatively they meet the Code but they are not of the same quality the Council had in mind. They suggested that OP Concept Plans could be submitted to a landscape architect or architect for compliance with the more qualitative aspects of the Ordinance. They are thinking about street widths, landscaping, building exteriors, etc. More ornate structures are what the City Council had in mind. The applicant would pay the fees, adding perhaps another $1,000. Commissioner Sessina .-�5i�tiil eF'i t,.oiTlTilksi()tl "ij t:: .; �t',�: I€f "f: .. , .002 He understands but we still have to give an architect qualitative ideas to guide him. If we cannot put it on paper for ourselves, how can we put it on paper for him? If the property owner is paying, they will low -ball the quality and expense. Commissioner Deziel We ran into problems with the last one. This suggestion will not help. Lot size was one problem. Size and aspect ratio in long strips of about 20 acres made for unattractive plans. If we change the aspect ratio, it would be more attractive. OP Outlots should be required to be part of the HOA responsibility with non -development clauses, and as part of the development, not an adjacent parcel. Chairman Armstrone 3 or 4 others came through that had OP not owned by their HOA's. Originally, OP came about in the 1990's when the smallest lots were zoned RE. Criticism included large lots create more roads, and no space set aside. When clustering came it was 6 houses for 20 acres. Fears of the "taking" issue created the bonus program up to 9 per 20. Now it is 8 per 20. He recommends we reduce the density, and get back to the original 6 per 20. If we allow 16 houses on 40 acres, we can't expect the developers to change their plans to make the neighbors happy. He thinks the City Council should change the Code back to what it was origtaally. This has been the entire problem since the beginning. There has been only one plan where they have not taken every single lot allowed. OP is not mandatory. It can be developed other ways if they do not like OP. Lower the density, and make a more quality development. It would not have to be more expensive. The first OP application was for Homestead, Fields was second with the brand new Ordinance. They did not need six variances for a 100 acre site. There was no hardship or basis for it. Amend the Code. If they need to be emotionally and visually appealing, match it in the Code. Commissioner Deziel Make it more exclusionary. Commissioner Sessine Are view sheds for existing or new residents? City Planner Ask the City Council to home in to exp Commissioner Bunn She supports what Commissioner_:essing said. What environmental aspects are they talking about? An architect we hire but they pay does no good unless we have guidelines to make it what the Council wants. n what they mean or nothing will get done. Commissioner Ptacek He agrees about density. There are problems with aspect ratios. Qualitative things are subjective. We cannot dive into aesthetic concerns, whose view is better, or side versus front siting garages on the lots. The City Council must give us some technical concerns we can fix. Commissioner Sessine He would like to see the entire City Council here for a workshop with the Commission. MAC/Planning Cor€lrnl 5€rrrr ': €ir U1 June 24, 2002 M/S Sessing/Helwig To schedule a workshop with the City Council to discuss OP Development concerns. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. Staff Renort, City Planner, Charles Dillerud The second directive from the Council is a concern that it has been since the 1979 Ordinance was created. The City Council would like the Commission to look at GB as they did with LB. If you read the Comprehensive Plan, the Old Village is our retailing area; we are deducting from the Old Village when we have similar uses elsewhere in the city. Chairman Armstrong None of the uses on the GB List seem objectionable. He thinks zoning might be the response, not uses. Whenever a list was developed, it was an agonizing process. Commissioner Bunn All business zones except the MUSA area soon will become LB and non -business with the Comprehensive Plan. This would be a non -issue. City Planner All these uses are fine for Old Village commercial. Do we want neighborhood mini shopping centers? Commissioner Sessing That cannot happen unless it is zoned for it. Chairman Armstrong Uses along I-94 may be the only area where there might be a problem. M/S Armstrong/Helwig If the City Council wants to discuss uses in the General Business Zone, it should be done in the same workshop as the OP. VOTE 8:0 PASSED. OTHER BUSINESS Commissioner Bunn She is very excited about the Old Village Neighborhood Design Study, and thinks there should be Old Village and public involvement. At the time consultants gave bids, the time frame was different. We asked for innovative ideas for public involvement, and we did not get them. It was her conclusion that this consultant would hire another person to give us that public input structure. The schedule submitted has regular Planning Commission Meeting dates. She assumed they would be separate meetings. Trying to get public input on Monday nights in summer seems ineffective. The whole process is overlapping with the City Council, Staff, and Met Council. July 8 is a scheduled meeting for Staff and the Planning Commission. The City Council should be involved in the beginning. City Planner He remembers it that way too. Commissioner Berg He shares Commissioner Bunn's frustration. In his experience, it does not matter when you hold a meeting. When people get angry they show up. He would love to get the public involved. The time of year will not matter. nnin Commissioner Ptacek The most important thing is that the Old Village Special Projects Commissioners are part of this. He assumes there is an excuse why the letter was dated June and not January or February. City Planner Community Facilities were delayed, the consultants were in Italy, and we were working on data collection. The County took a while to get the digitized data to him. The rezoning ordinance will be coming up pretty soon. He will get this going as early as possible. Commissioner Bunn She would like Old Village work phone numbers. She would like to hold the public forums at any time but a Monday night, and not simultaneous with Planning Commission Agendas. July 22 is a key meeting. City Planner July 8 is the scheduled kick off. Commissioner Bunn The discussion should be about public input. Commissioner Deziel There was a big response to a good mailing of 300 to Old Village residents. Residents expect us to do much of this for them. They are not going to schedule a conflict that is vague or uncertain. Don't assume residents are not concerned. Commissioner Bunn The MAC made suggestions about Facilities Plann aware of the study. For discussions, we should be sure Thorbeck is M/S Bunn/Deziel To commit to the initial meeting of July 8 but to include the Old Village Special Projects Commission, and to direct staff to get the consultant to understand our need to know how community involvement will happen, and to get the Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission's response to that. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. ADJOURN at 9:30 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Kimberly Schaffel Administrative Secretary MC P'anJune. 4..2002 MEMO (July 18, 2002) To: Lake Elmo M+C/Planning Commission From: C Subject: Community Facilities/Staffing Forecast City Administrator Kueffner, Public Works Superintendent Olinger, Park Superintendent Bouthilet; and Fire Chief Malmquist have been provided copies of the draft document and invited to attend the July 22 MAC/PC meeting to share their observations and comments with the Commission. Following the foregoing discussion it is suggested that MAC/PC adopt a recommendation to the City Council regarding the study. If and when the Council concurs with the recommendation, Staff will bring the document back to the Commission in a Public Hearing setting, as an amendment (addition) to the Comprehensive Plan.