HomeMy WebLinkAboutPZ minutes; 09-27-10APPROVED AS AMENDED; 11-8-10
Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 9-27-10 1
City of Lake Elmo
Planning Commission Meeting
Minutes of September 27, 2010
Chairman Van Zandt called to order the meeting of the Lake Elmo Planning Commission
at 7:00 p.m. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Bidon, Fliflet, Hall, Pearson (7:04 P.M.),
Pelletier, Van Erem, Van Zandt, Williams and Ziertman. Absent: Britz and McGinnis;
STAFF PRESENT: Administrator Messelt, Planning Director Klatt, Planner Matzek,
Attorney Snyder, Attorney Baker.
Agenda
M/S/P, Williams/Hall, move to approve as presented. Vote: 8:0.
Minutes – None.
Public Hearing – Zoning Text Amendment; Parking Requirements and Lot Line Setbacks
in Village Area GB Zoned Properties
Planning Director Klatt presented two ordinance amendments to the General Business
District in the downtown Village Area. The first change would reduce the front and side
yard setbacks to zero feet; the second would allow a waiver of parking requirements. He
said this request is from the Lake Elmo Inn who wishes to add a permanent enclosed
structure where the tent currently exists. He stated the proposed changes allow more
flexibility in an area identified for walkable development in the Comprehensive Plan and
therefore, staff recommends approval.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED AT 7:20 P.M.
No one spoke.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED AT 7:20 P.M.
Commissioner Williams expressed concern with waiving the parking requirements as he
has heard downtown businesses say they are negatively impacted from the lack of
parking.
Commissioner Pearson said the Lake Elmo Inn has the lion’s share of parking and asked
if this waiver is fair to everyone.
Administrator Messelt said there are some businesses that do have off-street parking. He
said the main street parking is first-come, first-serve. He said in his year at the city, he
has not heard of any parking issues in the downtown.
Planning Director Klatt said the city had, at some point in the past, allowed diagonal
parking. He said the Lake Elmo Inn was granted a variance to parking previously, but
that the patio had not been counted at that time. He said the proposed text change would
not allow a blanket waiver, but would be reviewed by city staff.
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Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 9-27-10 2
Administrator Messelt said the patio is an allowed use, but it becomes permanent with
this change, therefore the parking was already there and needs to be officially counted.
Commissioner Williams said a zoning text amendment applies to multiple properties,
which needs to be considered. He said parking will get worse and asked why the Lake
Elmo Inn couldn’t have a valet service.
Administrator Messelt said there is sufficient downtown parking, it just may not be
directly in front of the businesses.
Commissioner Bidon said it is a disadvantage to new businesses if there is no parking
available.
M/S/P, Pearson/Fliflet, move to accept the proposed amendments with the added
condition that the staff survey the businesses to determine if adequate parking is available
currently. Vote: 8:1. Williams against.
Public Hearing - Zoning Text Amendment – Agricultural Sales Ordinance
Commissioner Ziertman asked to recuse herself due to perception of a possible conflict of
interest. She stated if she chose to spoke, it would be as a resident and farmer.
Administrator Messelt gave a brief timeline of related events back to December of 2009
regarding agricultural sales and agricultural entertainment. He introduced the three
options for consideration: allowing sales of produce grown non-locally; removing any
grown on premise condition; or elimination of all requirements, including agricultural
entertainment uses, and relying on the state constitution regulations.
Planning Director Klatt identified a new definition of greenhouse with clarification that
the intent is to regulate those used for wholesaling as opposed to small private residential
greenhouses.
Commissioner Williams identified that a wayside stand calls for a temporary structure,
but if it is a pick-your-own operation, there is no structure involved.
Administrator Messelt suggested leaving it in agricultural sales or to make a wayside
stand a permanent structure.
Planning Director Klatt explained the details for option one and briefly described options
two and three. He identified a section of code allowing non-conformities to continue the
use if it was previously allowed.
Commissioner Fliflet said the identified maximum floor area is limited to 20,000 square
feet. She asked where this number came from and how big the Country Sun buildings
currently are.
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Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 9-27-10 3
Planning Director Klatt said the number shows up in the limited business district. He is
unaware of the size of the Country Sun buildings.
Commissioner Williams suggested consistency throughout the sections. He said on page
two under food producing farm operation, it says to “see farm, rural,” but he does not see
a relationship between the two. He identified number nine on page four and asked if the
ownership of property wording would exclude a single property owner from renting his
or her land to non-owners for gardening.
THE CHAIRMAN OPENED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 8:26 P.M.
Neil and Deb Krueger, 4452 Lake Elmo Ave N; Krueger’s Christmas Tree Farm
Mr. Krueger said his biggest question is the Interim Use Permit as he does not know what
that means, what the criteria for approval are, or who will be reviewing the permit
applications. He recommended reducing the amount of land farmed, in the definition of
“farmer,” from 75 acres to 10 and suggested tying it to the green acres program
requirements. He suggested requiring certification that the produce, whatever it may be,
is inspected for bugs and diseases before it is brought in from off-site. He identified the
design and architectural standards on page eight and suggested they be more strict. He
suggested simplifying the trips per day requirement and reducing the 100 foot buffer to
twenty-five or thirty feet. He asked the commission to reconsider the exterior storage
requirement as it is often difficult to always have equipment screened.
John Krueger, Krueger’s son
Mr. Kruger said he grew up on the Christmas tree farm still owned by his parents. He
said he would like to take over the business eventually and encouraged the changes
suggested by his parents. In addition, he asked the maximum floor size be clarified as it
is not clear if that includes temporary structures.
Cari Myhra; 456 Manning Avenue
Ms. Myhre asked what the difference between a conditional use and an interim use.
Attorney Snyder said a conditional use runs in perpetuity with the land, but an interim use
runs with a defined period of time or until the conditions are not being met.
Ms. Myhre asked if option two was already in effect.
Administrator Messelt said the “on premise” language was only removed for wayside
stands.
Joan Ziertman; 5761 Keats Ave
Mrs. Ziertman said she thought it would be odd to require a business to obtain two IUPs.
She agreed with the Kruegers that the buffer required was too much and the definition of
farmer should be changed to reduce the acreage. She pointed out that agricultural sales
and agricultural entertainment businesses are allowed in the Rural Residential zoning
district, but the requirement of forty acres for the use does not align with the ten acre
minimum lot size in that district. She said in the event of a crop failure, a farmer will not
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Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 9-27-10 4
want to get an IUP as it would be for a single season. She suggested limiting the amount
of produce that could be brought onto a site to be sold.
Keith Bergmann, 5833 Lake Elmo Ave N
Mr. Bergmann said the Country Sun Farm has approximately 30,000 square feet in retail
sales with another 10,000 in green houses. Their site has far greater than 40,000 square
feet in impervious surface. He asked if option one would allow Country Sun Farm to
continue to operate in its existing use.
Attorney Snyder said some uses may or may not qualify as lawful and preexisting to
some degree, but the commission should not make individual judgments about particular
properties.
THE CHAIRMAN CLOSED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 8:52 P.M.
Administrator Messelt summarized the comments and suggested changes.
The commission recessed at 9:01 p.m. and reconvened at 9:07 p.m.
Commissioner Pelletier said it would be reasonable to expect a higher traffic volume and
additional impacts from an agricultural entertainment business than an agricultural sales
site. She suggested a sliding scale for the amount of impact.
Commissioner Fliflet suggested a quick permit process for last minute crop failure.
Commissioner Hall suggested the storage of equipment is a safety issue and if it could
not be kept inside, it should be sequestered by fencing.
Commissioner Fliflet said the proposed language does not allow the sale of accessory
items, but that ancillary items have been allowed for sale in the past and suggested
continuing to allow it in moderation.
Chairman Van Zandt asked for a straw vote on whether the produce type should be
grown on site to allow it to be brought in from off-site. Commissioner Williams voted
for. Six commissioners voted against. One abstained. Commissioner Ziertman remained
recused from the commission.
Chairman Van Zandt asked for a straw vote on whether produce brought in from off-site
must be related to what is sold on site. Commissioners Pelletier and Bidon voted for it.
The remaining commissioners voted against, again with Commissioner Ziertman not
voting.
Commissioner Pelletier said the location of the agricultural sales is important because
more compact residential neighborhoods would not enjoy living adjacent to an ag
business.
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Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 9-27-10 5
Chairman Van Zandt asked for a straw vote to allow an agricultural sales business on ten
acres. Six commissioners voted for it. Commissioners Van Zandt and Fliflet did not
vote. Commissioner Ziertman remained recused.
M/S/P, Fliflet/Pelletier, move to recommend option one with the City Administrator’s
summarized changes with direction to staff to keep the comment period open so when it
is published in draft form, the public can continue to comment.
Commissioner Pearson suggested the buffer be fifty feet for produce, but 100 feet for
entertainment businesses.
Commissioner Williams suggested different buffers for sales activity versus crops.
Vote: 8:0.
Updates
Planning Director Klatt informed the commission that the City Council approved the
Kennedy septic variance and the Subsurface Sewage Treatment System Ordinance at the
September 21st meeting. The city will be turning over any new septic permits to
Washington County as of October 1st.
Administrator Messelt said the CUP application for the Cranky Ape Company was
tabled. Staff is trying to work out an approach that meets some of the concerns expressed
regarding the future guidance of the property as sewered residential development.
Planning Director Klatt said the planning department went to the state conference in
Mankato. Afterwards, staff spoke at their alma mater to students interested in planning
careers.
Adjournment:
The meeting was adjourned at 9:56 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Kelli Matzek
Planner