HomeMy WebLinkAboutPZ Minutes; 11-9-15Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 11-9-15
City of Lake Elmo
Planning Commission Meeting
Minutes of November 9, 2015
Chairman Dodson called to order the meeting of the Lake Elmo Planning Commission at
7:00 p.m.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Dodson, Dorschner, Haggard, Larson, Griffin Kreimer and
Williams. Fields joined at 9:15
COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: Fields until 9:15
STAFF PRESENT: City Planner Stephen Wensman
Approve Agenda:
The agenda was accepted as presented.
Approve Minutes: None
Presentation – Public Safety and Response Time
Chief Malmquist presented data regarding public safety and response time. They
identify those things that they can control and make the response time quicker. Chief
Malmquist went over the County street naming system. It is a grid pattern. This has
been complicated with the winding roads in the new developments. The other problem
we have in Lake Elmo is the one access point in Developments.
Chief Malmquist also talked about the street widths. He stated that he had sat down
with Engineer Griffin and came up with some standards and would like the City Council
and Planning Commission to support those standards. Malmquist talked about
connectivity. There is a reason that the City put in stubs. These neighborhoods need to
be connected for response time. If they are on a call, they may get another one and
have to go around to the next one. One argument against connectivity was that it
creates a safety issue for children. Malmquist stated that for how dense Cimarron is,
there has never been a call for a child being struck by a car.
Chief Malmquist would appreciate the Planning Commission supporting his
recommendations for safety issues moving forward.
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Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 11-9-15
Business Item – General Discussion of Open Space Preservation Ordinance
City Planner Wensman introduced the topic of the Open Space Preservation Ordinance.
There is currently a project in the works, and the City Council thought this would be a
good time to discuss if some changes would be appropriate. The topics that have been
suggested for discussion are to review the purpose and possible flexibility. Should the
density go from 18 to 20 homes per 40 acres? How should the density be calculated and
how should the buffer setbacks be dealt with? Should there be a buffer between two
OP developments. What should septic system options be? Should community systems
be allowed going forward? Should there be a minimum lot size for individual septics?
Should we allow the community septic? How should lot design be determined? Should
the septic be the most important?
Dorschner stated that we need to decide if we want to stay rural. If that is the case, we
need to consider the environment and the impacts of septic if we are not going to have
sewer. He would like to hear from U of M or Washington County on what is acceptable.
The Commission likes the OP, but some would like more choice such as RE. Dodson
mentioned that with RE, residents would use their property more for things such as
gardens etc. In some OP developments, the open space is not accessible or even usable.
Larson would like to talk about the land trust documents as well and what kind of uses
would be allowed.
Williams thinks the first sentence of the purpose statement is fine, but would like the
second and third sentence to read “This type of development is intended to provide
additional flexibility of housing styles in the City. It provides an alternative to large lot,
single family housing and will reduce the cost of constructing and maintaining costly
infrastructure.”
Dodson asked what single family attached would mean. Wensman stated it is 2 or more
single family homes that share a common wall.
Haggard would like to add “natural Habitats” and have the first line read “The purpose
of open space preservation (OP) is to maintain the rural character of Lake Elmo by
preserving agricultural land, woodlands, corridors, natural habitats and other significant
natural features, while allowing residential development consistent with the goals and
objectives of the City’s Comprehensive Plan.”
Planning Commission would like an update from the Minnesota Pollution Control
Agency (MPCA) and Washington County regarding septic design and why there are
failing systems.
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Dodson would like on page 3 Item (2) 4 to change “deed Covenants” to “CIC
Declarations”.
There was a general discussion regarding septic systems. What type should be allowed
and who should oversee. There are several items that need to b e discussed, but the
Commission would like a presentation from the County and MPCA before a decision
would be made on which way to go.
Wensman asked if the Commission felt it was appropriate for septic systems to be
located in the preserved open space. Some members thought it was fine, but others
wanted to think about it.
Williams is not in favor of increasing the density. The density already reflects a bonus
that was intended to stimulate development. The smaller lots already provides a bonus
by having fewer roads and infrastructure when the homes are clustered. Dorschner and
Dodson do not believe that we should increase the numbers in the rural areas for OP to
relieve the numbers in the sewered areas. This is where the higher numbers belong.
We need to think about the environment and how we are managing these septic
systems. The Planning Commission as a whole is not in favor of increasing density. They
also are not in favor of changing the density calculation. They would like to leave it at
buildable acres. Wensman stated that buildable land is usually how all developments
are measured.
Williams suggested that the Commission consider changing the 50% open space to be
based on gross acres vs. buildable acres.
Dodson feels that minimum lot size is linked to the type of septic that it has. Others are
interested in what Washington County has to say regarding septic. Williams might like
to see larger lots to preserve the rural character in the OP. Kreimer is concerned that
the 1 acre for individual well and septic might not be big enough. He feels that there
should be a requirement at preliminary plat to prove that the lot perks when they come
before them for primary and secondary drainfields and where the house is going to be.
The majority of the Commission still would like to see a 1 acre minimum even with a
shared sewer system.
Williams mentioned that there is such a variance in buffer zones because in the past,
there was not enough oversight. He would like the existing ru les to be enforced.
The Commission was interested in exploring using discretion with the buffers. They
would like to explore a possible list of things that could be used for deciding when and
how large of a buffer to employ, instead of just requiring one.
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Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 11-9-15
Dodson feels that anything less than 40 acres is too small for an OP development,
especially if there is a CIC. Other Commissioners felt that anything smaller than 40 acres
might require private septic. The Commission wanted the Planning staff to e xplore if it
is even viable to do less than 40 acres for OP. Some thought anything less than 40 acres
should possibly be RE.
The Planning Commission discussed the lot design objectives and their relevance. There
was no real consensus on this.
Dodson asked that the boulevard landscaping be checked for consistency with our
landscaping code. If it is a higher standard we would keep it in, if not we should
probably defer to the landscape code.
Williams asked about the impervious surface allowed and thought 20% of gross seemed
high and possibly should be buildable.
Williams thinks the review process should follow that of any other development within
the City. This section needs to match what we are already doing, or possibly it should
be one section for all types of development. Also the wording in 150.179 should
probably be changed from “development stage plan” to “Preliminary Plat”. 150.183 (2)
(e) should also include trails. 150.184 should be reviewed for public hearing and stage
requirements. Williams would like to add something to the effect that an application is
not complete until all of the City Engineers comments are met. Commissioners would
like these met before the preliminary plat moves forward.
Dodson would like “Homeowners Association” changed to “Common Interest
Community” wherever it appears in ordinance.
Council Updates – October 20, 2015 Meeting
1. Hammes Plat Extension – Passed
Staff Updates
1. Upcoming Meetings
a. November 23, 2015
b. December 14, 2015
Commission Concerns
Haggard asked if the staff has a chart regarding all of the developments that have
passed and all of the conditions of approval. Have they all been met? How is this
tracked? Wensman stated that it is an issue that they are going to be working on.
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Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 11-9-15
Dodson stated that Fields, Rolf and he went to a seminar. He went to energy planning
which was very interesting and they talked about how this should be part of the
planning.
Williams stated that his packet did not arrive until Monday at 5:00. He would like to see
packets arrive on Thursdays before the meeting.
Meeting adjourned at 10:15 pm
Respectfully submitted,
Joan Ziertman
Planning Program Assistant