HomeMy WebLinkAboutPZ Minutes; 10-10-16Lake Elmo Planning Commission Minutes; 10-10-16
City of Lake Elmo
Planning Commission Meeting
Minutes of October 10, 2016
Chairman Kreimer called to order the meeting of the Lake Elmo Planning Commission at
7:00 p.m.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Fields, Dodson, Williams, Dunn, Kreimer, and Lundquist
COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: Haggard, Larson & Griffin
STAFF PRESENT: Planning Director Wensman
Approve Agenda:
M/S/P: Lundquist/Dodson, move to approve the Agenda as amended, Vote: 6-0,
motion carried Unanimously.
Approve Minutes: September 26, 2016
M/S/P: Dodson/Fields, move to approve the September 26, 2016 minutes as amended,
Vote: 6-0, motion carried Unanimously.
Public Hearing – Inwood 4th Addition Final Plat
Wenman started his presentation for Inwood 4th Addition Final Plat which includes 38
single family homes. Wensman went through some background regarding the
development. There is parkland that is adjacent to this phase. This phase is 10.91 acres
for 38 single family lots. The lot sizes vary from 8171 sq ft to 13,650 sq ft. and lot
widths are 64.3 to 105 feet. The landscape plans are consistent with approved plans,
the city still needs some information for the irrigation system. There are 3 conditions
from the Preliminary Plat that are not met. Condition #1) the street naming policy
changes, and staff is recommending that the new road be named to Ivywood Circle N
condition # 10) there is no maintenance agreement for phase 4 which will be required
before the release of building permits #18) the developer shall install a multi -purpose
trail along 10th Street. This condition will be met in a future phase.
There are 7 findings of fact for approval. Staff is recommending 7 conditions of approval
which include complying with the engineers memo, landscape licensing agreement, a
CIC Homeowners agreement, etc.
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Kreimer asked if there would be water service in the park. The public works department
and Engineering has been in communication with the developer to find the best location
for the stub.
John Rask, MI Homes, they are phasing south to north based on where the water and
utilities are coming from. This phase will have full basements and larger lots, but will be
part of the overall HOA.
Kreimer asked if the same style homes will be built. Rask stated that some will be walk-
outs, there will be 2 additional style homes, but many will be similar.
Public Hearing opened at 7:21 pm
Alan Stocker, 8680 Upper 7th Place, he is wondering about the completion of Island Trail
through to 10th Street. All of the construction traffic comes right through their
neighborhood. They were led to believe that Island Trail would go through to 10 th
Street.
Wensman stated that this phase was not platted to include that road. The road is
intended to be platted in the next phase.
Rask explained how the sewer and storm water works for this development and that to
make the connection, the other loop needs to be made. It is more of a sequencing
thing. Utilities and infrastruction are dictating the phasing. The road connection is
anticipated to be opened up in the Spring. They have started to work with Washington
County to work out the details.
Lisa McGinn, 8756 Upper 7th Place N, they were all told that once the construction went
through the first 4 cul-de-sacs, the construction traffic would come from the north for
the next phase. There are children, buses, disabled, etc and there have been some
circumstances where there have been some near misses. She is wondering why they
can’t use the construction road coming off of Inwood where it would not affect any of
their homes, or not to start construction until they can put that road through to give this
neighborhood relief.
Williams is wondering about where the construction access is located. Lisa McGinn
stated that she believes it is 9th Street and there are currently construction trailers
there.
Mike McGinn, 8756 Upper 7th Place N, he understands that it may be inconvenient and
expensive, but he feels construction access is separate from sewer access and is typical
for large construction sites. They could fence off the area so that you would not have
residential traffic or speculative traffic. He feels that it would be a reasonable
accommodation for the residents living there.
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There were no other written or electronic comments received
Public hearing closed at 7:38 pm
Williams is not sure how they can legally tie another construction access to this plat.
Wensman stated that he would defer to the developer. He does not feel that they can
tie it to this plat.
M/S/P: Williams/Dodson, move to recommend approval of the Inwood 4th Addition
Final Plat and PUD with the findings and 7 conditions of approval drafted by staff and
listed in the Staff Report, Vote: 6-0, motion carried.
Fields would like to hear from the developer to see if they are willing to do anything to
accommodate the traffic issues.
Rask stated that they are not starting this addition this year. This addition will probably
coincide with the Island Trail road access. They are working with the County to work
through some issues regarding this. The construction access previously talked about is a
restricted access that they were granted early on and was intended to be that in
between access point before roads were built.
Public Hearing – Wildflower 2nd Addition Final Plat and Final PUD Plan
Wensman started his presentation for the Wildflower 2nd addition final plat and final
PUD plans. Wensman gave the background regarding the development. The lot area is
4.4 acres for 20 residential lots (10 villa and 10 regular). Average garden villa lot is .16
acres and average single family lot is .29 acres. The landscape plans are not approved
yet, but will be required before building permits are issued. Wensman brought up an
issue that was discovered with the development. The PUD agreement was written that
the sideyard setback is from a public street vs. from a property line. For this phase, he
clarified the language to “from the property line”, but shrunk the setback to 10 feet,
specifically for Lot 1 Block 3 and Lot 4, Block 3. Parking has been an issue for this
development during construction, so the engineer is asking for designated allowed
construction parking for this development. There is an unmet condition that there be a
recorded landscape license agreement to include the public art.
Wensman went through the findings for approval. There are 9 conditions of approval
which include the CIC agreement, landscape/public art agreement, street B be to be
named, 15’ setback, etc.
Lundquist brought up the water problem at 43 rd Street and Lake Elmo Ave. She feels
that it is because the landscaping for first addition was not done correctly. There is a
berm that isn’t built high enough so that what used to be a marsh is now a lake and is
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infringing on the Krueger property. She would like the landscaping looked at more
closely. Wensman said he will follow up with the City Engineer to see if it isn’t
functioning properly.
Dodson had a question on the CIC agreement. Wensman stated that this new property
needs to be incorporated into the agreement.
Williams asked if this development met the street naming ordinance. Wensman stated
that it would meet the current ordinance.
M/S/P: Dunn/Williams, move to postpone consideration of the final plat and PUD
development plans for the Wildflower at Lake Elmo 2nd Addition upon the completion of
the next agenda item, Vote: 5-1, motion carried, with Dodson voting no.
Public Hearing – Conditional Use Permit – 5699 Keats Ave – Additional Accessory
Building in RR Zoning
Wensman started his presentation regarding a Conditional Use Permit for an additional
accessory building in the RR zone at 5699 Keats Ave. This is located in the North/Central
section of the city in a rural residential zoning district. On lots 10-15 acres, you are
allowed 2 buildings up to a combined 2500 square feet. The applicant is asking for this
building for agricultural purposes. They are being taxed as an agricultural property.
They have (6) 650 foot rows of raspberries, pumpkins, squash and vegetables. They
desire to expand their farm to house chickens and goats and for the storage of
agricultural equipment. Agricultural production is an allowed use. The setbacks are met
and the building will be put in a lower elevation. Right now there is a lot of exterior
storage of equipment on this property and this will alleviate the need for that.
There currently are no development standards outlined in Article 7 which is referred to.
Article 5 has standards for accessory buildings and structures generally. Notices were
sent out and there was one public comment expressing concerns about drainage and if
there was a need for storage on this property. A condition was added in response to
this comment. Staff is recommending approval with 12 findings. Staff is recommending
approval with 13 conditions of approval.
Williams asked for clarification of the allowed building sizes and numbers and if it was a
total aggregate area. Wensman pulled up code and it confirmed it is aggregate
maximum size. Williams is also wondering about the last condition that if the property
subdivides does that mean the building has to come down. He is also wondering about
the condition referring to Home Based Business. Wensman stated that the request is
for an agricultural building and should not be used for a home based business. There is
already a lot of storage on the site and some kind of limit has to be placed for the
building to be used appropriately. Williams feels that condition number 5, might not be
applicable and number 10 seems to cover it.
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Dodson is wondering if they need a finding stating why they need a conditional use
permit. Wensman stated that there really aren’t standards so he thinks it would be
based on implied need, but it is not really provided.
Kreimer asked if there were standards that it has to be compatible with the house.
Wensman referred to the code and accessory buildings have to be compatible with the
principle structure, but pole buildings are an exception to that rule.
Rod Sessing, 5699 Keats Ave, is asking for a conditional use permit to store his
agricultural equipment inside as it deteriorates 10 times faster sitting outside. They
would like to expand their farm to have organic chickens and eggs as well as milking
goats. It bothers him that they talk about tearing down a building. When the variance
went through for his neighbor, a tear down clause was talked about, but it was not
approved that way. He would like the tear down clause to be removed. He agrees that
it will only be used for AG, but to tear down a perfectly good building later on, doesn’t
make sense. Sessing stated that drainage is not going to be an issue as water flows to
the south and there is a pond to the south to collect water.
Public Hearing opened at 8:35 pm
There were no other written or electronic comments received
Public Hearing closed at 8:35 pm
Dodson asked for more clarification regarding the drainage issue. Wensman stated it
was just a concern that this building might increase the water drainage to the area. This
would be addressed through the building permit process if there were any issues.
Dunn agrees with not needing the home occupation part in there and also with not
tearing it down. Wensman stated that the Ziertman’s building was obtained through
the variance process and variances run with the land. Therefore, there was no condition
placed on the building to be torn down. A CUP runs with the land, but they can expire if
conditions are not met. If you want to take out that clause, you would need to strike
the condition that it only be used for agricultural purposes and they could use it for
whatever they wanted.
Fields does not feel that the condition should be struck. The request is for an additional
building for an agricultural purpose and that is what it needs to be used for. If the
agricultural use goes away, the building can be left vacant, but can’t just be used for any
use. Dunn and Lundquist agreed.
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M/S/P: Williams/Lundquist, move to recommend approval of the request for a
conditional use permit for an additional accessory structure in the RR – Rural zoning
district for the property located at 5699 Keats Avenue N, subject to the amended
conditions of approval, Vote: 6-0, motion carried unanimously.
Public Hearing – Wildflower 2nd Addition Final Plat and Final PUD Plan
The applicant is now in attendance so Wensman briefly summarized for him. The issue
of the Stormwater was brought up. Mr. Engstrom stated that his understanding from
his engineer is that there is less water going into the county culvert now than there was
before. Lundquist stated that she lives in the area and drives the road every day and
she stated that there used to be a marsh and now it is a lake. She stated that it has
backed up across the road onto the Kruegers property. Lundquist stated that her and
Commissioner Dunn drove the property and the house in the NW section of the first
addition has a berm on the corner of that property that has washed out so that the
water is running down the ditch into what is supposed to be a marsh. Engstrom stated
that she must be talking about the Gonyea property. Lundquist stated the it could be
the Gonyea property with that particular problem, but there is also a ser ies of Lakes on
the North end of the Wildflower property that do not seem to be draining properly.
Wensman suggests that he meet with the Kruegers to determine exactly what the issue
is so that he can bring that to the City Engineer to address if it is working properly. Dunn
suggested that maybe the VBWD should look at it as well.
Engstrom is opposed to 15’ setback from property line and would like it to be 10’. He
says he doesn’t know of any small utilities going in there. Wensman stated that there is
a 10’ utility easement there. There can be encroachments in setbacks, but not in the
easement.
Public Hearing opened at 8:46 pm
Neil Krueger, 4452 Lake Elmo Ave, is concerned that the open space is fast becoming a
lake and not usable open space. There are 2 problems from their perspective. The first
is with Gonyea. The VBWD, Jack Griffin and someone from the County were out. The
pond in the NW corner was not built according to design. It drains into the ditch along
Lake Elmo Ave vs. draining to the East. It is water that was never going into the ditch
before and it is causing that pond across the road to rise and is flooding into their ditch.
It is somewhat tied to the Wildflower development as well. What used to be a basin to
infiltrate the water is now a large berm. The other issue is that the trails on the
Wildflower development are fast becoming waterlogged. That whole area does not
have ponding that is working properly. VBWD is looking at the plan to see if it was
designed and built properly.
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Deb Krueger, 4452 Lake Elmo Ave, they are very concerned with this ponding situation.
There is a very great system of trails in Wildflower, but they appear to be flooding. The
water is running the wrong way. At Gonyea, there wasn’t enough room to handle the
water, so culverts were put in and now the water is running down to Wildflower. This is
a case of what looks good on paper, but she would like the Planning Commission to take
the time and walk the property so that they really know what is going on. There were
culverts put in on their side at their property and they don’t function property because
they are installed too high. She wants to be sure that this is addressed before any more
homes go in. They were told that another 3 feet, and their garage will flood.
Richard Smith, 11456 Blazingstar Lane N, he thought that the Wildflower at Lake Elmo
development would be done in 3 phases. If this is a step into phase 2, there were
agreements with the surrounding neighbors of things that would be completed with
phase 1 and those have not been met completely. He also wanted to say that a house
can look really nice at 6 months old, but what happens at 5, 10, 15 and 20 years out. He
feels if there is a problem with encroachments in easements, those need to be
addressed.
Wensman requested a copy of those conditions. Smith said they are part of the public
record, but he can get him a copy. Fields wanted to know what conditions haven’t been
met. Smith stated there was an agreement for underground services like sewer, water
and small utilities. When they were putting those services in about 2 months ago for
phase I, he called Mr. Engstrom and asked if this wouldn’t be a good time to do this for
them. He said he didn’t think that was the kind of work that they did. He is not clear
where that leaves him. If he needs to have the work done himself and send him the bill
or what.
There were no other written or electronic comments received
Public Hearing closed at 9:03 pm
Dodson is wondering how this plays out in terms of the phasing. Wensman stated this is
phase 2. He is wondering if they can add a condition that the work agreed to be done
for the neighbors be completed before phase 2 can be started. Wensman believes if
they were required to be done with phase I, that can be a condition that it needs to be
completed before recording of the plat.
M/S/P: Dodson/Lundquist, move to add a condition that any conditions for the 3
adjacent properties that were required to be completed with phase 1 be completed
before the plat for phase 2 is recorded, Vote: 6-0, motion carried unanimously.
Williams asked if these were conditions of approval from the City or were they part of a
private agreement. Smith stated that they are part of the public record. They have
been signed by both parties and part of the discussion at the City Council. He is not
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sure about the legal part of it. Wensman stated that he will find out if it was part of the
City conditions or if it is a private agreement. Williams is asking about the timeline for
making a decision. Wensman stated that they are up against the 60 day timeline. The
City however has the ability to ask for another 60 days. Williams would like more
information about the drainage issue. Dunn said it is always hard to retrofit. She
believes a large portion of this site is in the FEMA flood plain. She thinks it is imperative
that the city be sensitive to water issues and get to the root of the problem an fix it up
front rather than trying to retrofit it. Dunn would like to postpone this item. Williams
would like to postpone until the stormwater drainage system has been constructed
properly.
M/S/P: Williams/Dunn, move to postpone consideration of the Wildflower 2nd addition
Final Plat and PUD plans until the Planning Commission receives a report from the City
Engineer that the stormwater drainage system on the Village Preserve Property and the
Wildflower at Lake Elmo Property has been constructed properly as these 2 properties
were set up as part of the same stormwater drainage system, Vote: 6-0, motion carried
unanimously.
Dunn is wondering if this issue can be expedited and the Planning Commission could
possibly hold an additional meeting to resolve this issue.
Wensman stated that by the next regularly scheduled meeting there should be some
sort of resolution. Kreimer asked if the Planning Commission could recommend
approval, but with a condition that no construction would commence until these issues
are resolved. Williams said he would like more control than that. Once they
recommend approval, they are out of the loop.
Public Hearing – Conditional Use Permit Amendment – Rockpoint Church Parking Lot
Wensman started his presentation regarding the Conditional Use Permit for Rockpoint
Church parking lot expansion. They are poposing 124 spaces with a future additional
116 spaces. This property is a PF zone on 19.67 acres. There was a CUP for an
expansion in 2011 that expired. This expansion is much larger. This meets the
provisions for places of worship. One condition staff is suggesting is that there be no
parking in the second phase until it is paved. Wensman stated that they would need a
certificate of zoning compliance when the second phase is built, so they can make sure
it is built to standards. They will need to meet the lighting, landscaping and tree
preservation requirements. They meet the impervious surface requirements and a
VBWD permit will be required. There are also some engineering and fire safety
requirements. Staff feels they meet the 12 findings for approval and is recommending
15 conditions of approval.
Dodson asked about the drainfield and pumphouse and where they were located. They
are out in an outlot. Williams is asking about the landscape plans and why the City
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contract landscape architect is not required to review them. Williams wo uld like the
condition to say approved by the City.
Bill Bartolic, Rockpoint Church, they have a parking problem because their membership
is growing. They want to phase the parking lot as they can’t afford to do the whole
thing at once. They are parking in the street, which won’t be desirable once there are
homes in Hidden Meadows 2nd. Kreimer asked if it was intentional that there is no
curbing shown on the parking lot drive lane at the top of the drawing. Bartolic said that
was an oversight. They don’t intend to use any of the phase 2 parking lot. They will
make some sort of a barrier there. Bartolic is wondering if they can take responsibility
for watering the trees without the irrigation system. T he trees along Kelvin are not
irrigated and they are flourishing. Wensman clarified that irrigation is not required, but
if they choose to put it in, an agreement would be required.
Public Hearing opened at 9:39 pm
There were no other written or electronic comments received
Public Hearing closed at 9:39 pm
M/S/P: Williams/Dodson, move that all landscape plans be approved by the City prior to
any building permits being issued, Vote:6 -0, motion carried unanimously.
M/S/P: Williams/Lundquist, move to recommend approval of the request for a
conditional use permit amendment to allow a parking lot expansion for the property
located at 5825 Kelvin Avenue N, based on the findings of fact and the conditions as
amended in the staff report, Vote:6-0, motion carried unanimously.
Fields wanted to bring up the Wildflower setback issue so that it wasn’t left up in the air.
Wensman stated that there is a condition in the staff report that it is a 15 foot setback
from the property line. If the Commission wants something different, that would need
to change. Dunn stated that is what she finds difficult with PUD’s that sometimes
things deviate with unintended results. Fields would like it communicated to Mr.
Engstrom that is what the intent of the City and Planning Commission is.
Williams is wondering if the language could be very specific as something like there
needs to be a 10 foot unencumbered utility easement. Wensman stated that regardless
of the setback, there needs to be a 10 foot unencumbere d utility easement.
City Council Updates – October 4, 2016 Meeting
i) OP Ordinance – Passed – with 4/5 vote back in
ii) Horning Lot Size Variance – Passed
iii) Fence Ordinance Amendment – Solid Wall Fences – Passed
iv) Common Ground IUP – Passed
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v) Wasatch Storage Partners CUP - Passed
Staff Updates
1. Upcoming Meetings
a. October 24, 2016
b. November 14, 2016
Commission Concerns
Dunn is concerned because they have been ripping up some of the concrete in the Old
Village downtown as the water isn’t draining properly. The surface water has always
been a concern and how do people know that after something is approved, it is actually
functioning properly. Wensman stated that there are requirements that they are
inspected on a schedule.
Dodson is concerned that some outlots are permanent and some are temporary. He is
wondering if there is a way to change the terminology for the outlots so it is clear what
is permanent. Wensman stated that it is really up to the developer to commu nicate to
their customers what that is.
Williams feels that Commissioners are reluctant to make amendments to motions. He
wants to encourage Commissioners to speak up and say what they really think.
Kreimer is concerned that they are not getting the landscape plans with the packet.
Dodson doesn’t feel they need as much as they do for a preliminary plat. Williams is in
favor in keeping the system the way it is, but if an individual wants a copy, they can
request it from staff. Williams feels that the landscape consultant is doing a great job at
looking at these things and he is comfortable taking his recommendations.
Dodson is wondering if it is sent to one person, if it should be sent to everyone. Fields
thinks if it is sent electronically, that is easy enough to send to all.
Dunn feels that the issues brought up for the Inwood development were valid from a
safety standpoint and might be because of phasing. Wensman stated that this is part of
the argument for multi access developments.
Meeting adjourned at 10:02 pm
Respectfully submitted,
Joan Ziertman
Planning Program Assistant