HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-01-83 CCMLAKE ELMO CITY COUNCIL MEETING, MARCH 1, 1983
Acting Mayor Morgan convened the meeting at 7 p.m.
Councillors present: Fraser, Dunn and Mazzara. Absent -Mayor Eder
1. AGENDA:
M/S/P Fraser/Mazzara to approve the Agenda. Carried 4-0.
2. MINUTES - FEBRUARY 15, 1983:
M/S/P Fraser/Mazzara to approve the minutes of February 15, 1983,
as submitted. Carried 4-0.
3. CLAIMS: Name correction on Claim 83533 - Mike Pott
M/S/P Mazzara/Fraser to approve Claims 835W thru 83550. Carried 4-0.
4. LICENSES: None
5. PUBLIC INQUIRIES: Councillor Mazzara asked about the drainage
Problems that exist between Lake Elmo Hardwood and Pete Schiltgen.
Whittaker briefly explained the background of the situation. This
is not a City problem. Two means of resolution were suggested to
Mr. Rogers, LEHL, One, the involvedpropertyowners resolve the
problem between themselves. Two, Mr. Rogers petition the City for
a proiect.
6. DAVE GARLOFF ^ CABLE COMMISSION REPORT:
Mr. Garloff reported that the public hearing will be held on March
10, after which the franchise agreement'will:be submitted to. the
Cable.Board for approval. '.Once approved, Croup W- can _start con-_.-.-
struction of the system. This is a 20 month construction period.
Work in Lake Elmo will be towards the end of this 20 month period.
Mr. Garloff indicated that permits for work in the City will likely
be requested next year about this time. He then gave a brief
presentation of facts concerning the cable system and its time table.
10. ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORT:
A. Assistant' Administrator - Whittaker summarized the position of
fi—
t e—Rersonnel Committee as outlined in the Administrator's
Memo of February 25, 1983.
M/S/P;Fraser/Dunn accepting the Personnel Committee recommendation,
as outlined in the Administrator's Memo of February 25, 1983, and
authorizing the Administrator to advertise for an Assistant Administrator,
Carried 4-0,
B. Dem'on'trevil'le'Access - Whittaker referred the Council to his
February 25 memo w ich summarized the present status of the
access. He urged Council attendance and support of the DNR
position at the March 9 condemnation meeting,
C. Board of Review -
M/S%P flrTser/Mazzara scheduling the annual Board of Review for
May 19, 1983, from 2:30 to 7:36 p.m. Carried 4-0.
--Fraser - recommended following the procedure used last year
whereby the Councillors and Assessors worked in pairs. Also,
the Administrator will invite the Assessors in before the Board
of Review to explain the valuation and assessing process to
the new Council members.
CITY COUNCIL MEETING, MARCH 1, 1983 -2-
T. ENGINEER'S REPORT:
A. Sinclair S'ho'r'e'land'Perm'it Engineer Bohrer referred the
Council to kis letter oP February 17, 1983, which outlines
the Shoreland Regulation variances 'requested by Mr. Sinclair
in order to construct his home and -the Engineer's recommendations
should these variance be granted. The following variances
from the Shoreland Regulation are necessary to construct the
proposed home:
1, lot size; 2, lot width; 3, setback from normal high water
mark; 4, grading and filling to allow 2 to 1 slopes; 5. grading
and filling to allow fill below the NOHWM; and, 6, variance
from Septic System Regulation for setback of drainfield from
structure. Bohrer reported that Mr. Sinclair received a permit
from Valley Branch Watershed District to fill below the Normal
Ordinary High Water Mark, The septic system will-:be'conventional,
not piggy back or mound types.The Council reviewed the site
plan and the variance recommendations.
John Stine, DNR representative,, presented the concerns of the
DNR concerning several of the variances. He referred the Council
to his letter of March 1, 1983, He stated that the DNR would
have submitted their concerns about the lot division and the
lot development, but it was their understanding. that ;the lot
division request was denied, The DNR was not notified that the
council was reoonsidering the lot division variance as required
by State regulation. Mr. Stine then summarized the areas of
concern with the variances being requested, The DNR cited the
following concerns: 1. The amount of fill (164 cu, yd.) that
is proposed to be placed below the Ordinary High Water Level of
Lake Olson. 2. The substantial alteration of the natural
topography of the lot, 3. The creation of 2:1 slopes, to
create upland development area�in the bed of Lake Olson. 4.
The location /site of the home - could be redesigned and the
driveway located so as to achieve the necessary setbacks for
the drainfield and reduce the amount of fill below the OHW mark of
Lake Olson.,, Mr. Stine reitterated the request for better
cooperation between the City and the DNR concerning early
notification of proposals requiring DNR review.
--Fraser - asked the possible out come of Mr. Sinclair's pending
application.
--Stine - possiblity DNR could deny - regulations are very
specific regarding placement of fill in lake beds for achieving
greater setbacks and for the development of property. Could
issue a permit with conditions - such as modification of the
site plan or different lay out for the fill. Could approve
the application as submitted. Regardless of Council decision,
DNR regulations and requirements must be complied with.
--Morgan - why are DNR regulations different from Valley Branch?
--Stine - DNR looks at public waters from the environmental
impact, whereas, VBWD may primarily consider the'i67ater'quantity
management aspect.
--Bohrer - In response to Councillor Morgan's question - yes,
in his opinion, the requested amount of fill is necessary.
--Stine - if the home site were redesigned, may need only
50 yards of fill - also, knocking a hole in the hill for the
driveway will create a 'tunnel' effect,
--Bohrer - explained how the. layout of the house was determined.
Need the filled area in order to get the required setbacks for
the two drainfield sites.
CITY COUNCIL MEETING, MARCH 1, 1983
-3-
7. ENGINEER'S REPORT:
A. Sinclair Shoreland Permit -
'nl— = �Tft' position is that the amount of fill proposed is
more than the minimum necessary to achieve the purpose.
--Pat Sinclair -
first submitted a request in July of 1982; perc tests have
been done; topos have been done; met 4-5 times with the City
Council for the subdivision of the Orchard property and variance;
have drawn seven site plans.and was
never informed with any of the plans that a permit was needed
from the DNR - the City Administrator informed him he needed
a permit from Valley Branch - this was applied for and received;
notified the City, when the lot division was approved, that
variances -would be required - told -that only the Simple Lot..
Division could be discussed'a.t-that.-time. Has; over $2,000
invested in drawn plans. Response to Mr. Stines comments:
Present slope on Lake Demontreville is 2:1 - would like to
better this with the submitted proposal.
Regarding fill in Lake Olson - plans were drawn to meet -the
drainfield requirement - this approved by Valley Branch.
If the road (Hill Trail) were at the minimum building requirement
of 934 there would be no problem with water coming over the
road and onto his property.
--Whittaker - sent Mr. Sinclair a letter in October of 1982,
advising him that he would need a permit from the DNR and
Valley Branch. Valley Branch should have further notified
him of the DNR requirement.
--Fraser this situation is the result of trying to build
a house on property where various rules and regulations do
not permit it. Request was turned down twice by the Council.
Variances are significant - would find it difficult or
impossible to approve the variances. Opposed the lot division.
MIS/Dunn/Morgan to approve the following variances for Patrick
Sinclair, per the Engineer's recommendation'sand subject to an
acceptable response from the DNR on the permit request:
1. Variance from Shoreland Regulations for lot size of 0.84 acres
where 1.5 acres is required.
2. Variance from Shoreland Regulations for lot width
3. Variance from Shoreland Regulations for structure setback from
Normal High Water Mark where 100' is required.- 74' from
Lake Demontreville and 54' from the backwater of Lake Olson.
4. Variance from Shoreland Regulations for grading and filling
to allow slopes as steep as 2:1 where 6:1 is required.
Disturbed slopes be seeded and mulched as soon as possible to
minimize erosion.
5. Variance from Shoreland Regulations for grading and filling to
allow placement of fill below the Normal Ordinanry High Water
Mark. VBWD permit allows 164 CY of fill below the NOBW mark.
The location of the erosion control hay bale dike along
Lake Demontreville shall be realigned to be parallel with the
shoreline; and, the hay bale dikes shall remain in place until
turf is established on all slopes.
r 6. Variance from Septic System Regulations for setback of drainfield
from structure of 10' where 20' is required.
Trenches of the Primary Drainfield to be angled slightly as
shown on the site plan to better fit the existing contours.
Trench lengths of the Alternate Drainfield be modified as
shown on the site plan.
Drainfield trenches must have 24" of filter rock below the dis
tribution Dii)es for hnth »rima rcr a,A
CITY COUNCIL MEETING, MARCH 1, 1983
we
T. ENGINEER'S REPORT:
A. Sinclair ShorE
t Con
Discussion:
�-Morgan - this is the best proposal of any of the questionable
lots presented and approved by the Council during the past year.
--Mazzara - would like to see a compromise between the DNR and
Mr. Sinclair reached.
--Fraser - approving these variances will make it more difficult to
administer the zoning regulations in the future.
Motion carried 3-1. Fraser opposed.
B. 1983 StreetR'ehabil'itation Program -
Engineer -Rohrer reported on%the public hearing. He noted that
the Council has three options - proceed with the project as
proposed, amend the method of constructing the improvements,
per suggestions from residents at the public hearing, or
abandon further consideration of the project. Bohrer concurred
with the Administrator's statement that the design,sugg.ested
in the Feasibility Report was the minimum design recommended.
Not all.of-the cracked areas.were.proposed to be patched -
"spot repair"was planned for the worst areas with the overlay
bridging other dracked-up failed areas. By not constructing
the overlay, many areas of cracked -up blacktop would be left
and would not have any proposed repair. City has a rotating
seal coating program - these streets would have been up for
seal coating had they been suitable for seal coating in 1982,
1983 or 1984. A suggested means of minimizing the cost impact
on adjacent property owners might be to apply the cost of an
equivalent seal coat as a City participation in the project.
This would result in about a 10% cost reduction.to the property
owners.
--Morgan - suggested delaying the question until the full
Council was present.
The Council acknowledged receipt of petitions from Tablyn
Park, Bordner -Garner Farmettes, Kendridge Addition and
Friedrich Heights opposing the project.
--Mazzara - driven --through the areas in question - Tablyn Park
has some bad areas, but thinks the majority of the roadway is
in reasonably good condition. Biggest concern is the Jamaca Ct.
(Friedrich Heights) area. This area looks in very bad shape -
would suggest going along with the Engineers recommendation for
this area and modifying the improvements in the other three areas
to spot repair and seal coating.
--Sharon Dornfeld, Jamaca Ct. - not dissatisified with the
condition of the road. For the amount of traffic that uses this
road, residents do not feel $1,000 per household warrants the
extent of proposed improvement.
--Fraser - Administrator's comments.in his February 25. 1983,
Agenda memo were well considered and well taken
Listened to the tape of the public hearing
noted resident concern about lack of .past`maintenance that resulted
in the present repair needs. Engineer's report clearly shows that
the areas with the least amount of break-up and repair now are
the least expensive to repair- as, those with the most disrepair
have the most expense - this says if the project is delayed where
it is already needed then the cost will be much greater later on.
CIT" COUNCIL MEETING, MARCH 1, 1983
- 5-
7'. ENGINEER'S REPORT:
B. 1'98 3� Street" Re'habtllt'a'ti'on� Program
--Fraser- Contfnixe`ff _ PFETtions are good and,useful --in letting
one know what people believe, but fee7s,thevpetition would be
a stronger. -advisory if it said the petitioners had detailed
information and understood what the Engineer has submitted
and that if the improvement is not done now that the cost may
double in 1,2, 3, etc. years.
-Dunn asked the Engineer for -a cost comparison on the
seal coating cost that the City might absorb - and asked that
this be sent out to the residents. Presently, will not support
any assessment for any project that the people don''.t want
unanimously, such as this. This is his position on any
assessments.
--Bohrer - did some research on why the streets are in their
present condition. Highway Department plan on 35 years as a
useful life for their highways and anticipate first reconstruction
or, overlay work at about 12 years with a major overlay at 20 yrs.
These streets are at 10-13 years for the first reconstructive
work - this is not that far out of line all public works have
a useful:: life span they will not last forever.
All these streets are local and have no through traffic - most
of the households have garbage service, septic pumper service,
etc. Mn/DOT research indicates that one trip of a_garbage
truck has the same effect as 1500 cars - not just the local
car traffic, but the services needed that create a lot of wear
on the streets.
M/S/P Morgan/Fraser to delay the Street Rehabilitation question
until the full Council is present.
Discussion -
--Morgan people are not complaining because the roads are so bad
that they are causing them problems - may have to delay rehabilitation
until the residents acknowledge the problems and want to follow
the Engineer's recommendation.
Motion carried 4-0.
C. Cottage Grove Ravine —Watershed Plan - Administrator Whittaker
referred tie -Council to Engineer Bo rer's memo of February 18,
summarizing the comments made at the last watershed meeting.
He recommended that the Council authorize the Engineer to
prepare a cost estimate for a plan for the City's part of
this Watershed and also recommended that the Council support
a Joint Powers Agreement as opposed to a Watershed District.
The Council reviewed a sample resolution of such an agreement.
--Bohrer - indicated that there is no charge to provide a cost
estimate= - he will prepare a scope of the project and cost
estimate for the next meeting.
M/S/P Fraser/'Dunn instructing the Engineer to prepare a cost
estimate for preparation of a subwatershed report of the
Cottage Grove Ravine Watershed for Lake Elmo. Carried 4-0.
D. Section 32 Land Plan Up -Date - Engineer Bohrer reported that
Fee has receive all t e topo mapping requested for the Section
32 planning area. Copies will be available in the City Office.
CIT" COUNCIL MEETING, MARCH 1, 1983
aM.
10,; ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORT:
D. VBWD'A'dV'iso'ry-Comm'ittee- Whittaker reported that the City's two
A'aysory representatives are up for reappointment,
1 M/S/P Morgan/Dunn endorsing the reappointment of Robert Logue and
David Keane to the Valley Branch Watershed Citizens
Advisory Committee. Carried 4-0.
E. Stop Sign at Ironwood & 27th St.' Ta'b'lyn Park - Whittaker
reported that he received a request from residents in Tablyn
Park to replace the Yield Sign at the corner of 27th and
Ironwood with a Stop Sign. The Maintenance Foreman agreed
with the request stating this is a dangerous intersection.
M/S/P Dunn/Morgan authorizing the City crew to erect a Stop Sign
in place of the Yield Sign at 27th Street on Ironwood Tr. N.
Carried 4-0.
F. Administrator''s'Va'ca'tion - Whittaker notified the Council that
he will --be on vacation March 3 thru March 13.
BREAK
8. PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDATIONS:
A. Nelson/Hag R'e'z'on'ing -
Planning Commission Chairman Prince addressed the Council
and explained the Commission"s recnmmendation for denial.
Engineer-Rohrer,'at-the-request of. -the Administrator, reviewed
l the soils for this proposal, He putsthe soils overlay -map -
for this',axea.over the_ -proposed development, He: -.noted d -large
portionoftho'area had severe soil -limitations for septic
systems.- these are slopes and clay soil conditions. These
conditions do not prevent development, but should be taken
into consideration. Bohrer stated that mound systems, which
have been suggested, are not permitted as a first time septic
system under City Ordinance.
Tom Loucks, Nelson/Hageman Representative -developers are aware
of the constraints - most of the septic concerns relate to
slopes rather than bad soil - proposal before the Council is
only a concept plan. Addressed the Planning Commission's
reasons for denial:
1. Spot Rezoning - existing zoning to south is R-1; 1300 ft.
east of the site is Cimarron Park and Tartan Meadows which is
also R-1. Believe this proposal is consistent with surrounding
zoning. Comp Plan suggests that the long term plan for this
land is R-1. Maximum density under R-1 is not requested. Asking
for 14 lots on a 32 acre site.
2. Met Council Recommendation to Review Future R-1 Zoning -
Comp Plan recently reviewed and approved - believes a good deal
of thought given by the PZC and the Council on the current plan
therefore, it is reasonable to expect that this proposal would
be reviewed and considered under the existing approved Comp Plan.
Do not believe these 14 units would greatly impact the R-1 zoning
consideration as suggested by the Met Council; also, this 14
unit development in R-1 zoning.fit$in with the existing zoning
around the site.
CITY COUNCIL MEETING, MARCH 1, 1983
-7-
R. PLANNING COMMISSION REPORT:
A. Ne'1's'on'gag'en'an'Re'zon'ing - Continued
3. Letter from County Planner Robert Lockyear noted that
LockyearSs letter, while stating R-1 zoning would allow greater
density than RR zoning, does not acknowledge that the proposal
is consistent with the Comp Plan and all the present requirements
of the City. In response to the comment on high ground water -
agrees with the City Engineer that there will have to be more
detailed plans developed at the time of the preliminary plat.
Identified the high water table sites and the slope areas where
onrsite disposal systems may be a problem. High ground water
is located on less than 2 acres of a 32 acre parcel.
4. Soil conditions - no specific comments from the PZC - have
addressed and will further develop plans for septic systems in
the questionable areas.
--Al Borsheim, Gun Club Respresentative - Certified Soil
Inspector for PCA - addressed soil questions at the PZC meeting.
All 120 soils on the map have high water tables - with water
tables running 3/5 feet. All D marked soil types indicate
a 12-18% slope. According to County Ordinance cannot put a
septic system in any slope area that exceeds 12%. Cannot use
drop box or mound systems and have to have less than 12% slope
fora septic system. 49 type soils,where there is sand and
gravel and the water table is greater than 6 ft. in depth/
creates a rapid perc rate and a possible contamination of
Yround water. Another problem area is where the cul-de-sac
11T"'1'.s - area is low and has a 3 ft. water table. Club was
( aware of the development of this property - also aware and
familar with the soils as'the same type of soil -runs through
the Gun Club property,
--Bohrer - 120 soils and steep slopes are areas where septics
are either. difficult or cannot be put in. This does not mean
a house cannot be placed in this area - only that it is not
suitable for a septic system. Could possible place homes on
the lots as shown on the concept plan.
--Mazzara - asked if it would be reasonable to have the developer
buffer his area from the Club.
--Whittaker - believe R-1 development can be accomodated on
this site if it were redesigned on the east of the property.
Ordinance does not specifically provide for a developer to
berm and/or buffer his property from commercial.
--Fraser - would like to see the long term changes addressed and
the effect of the Gun Club on surrounding property.
--Loucks - willing to work with the Gun Club on buffering, but
want assurance on the zoning of the property.
--Rich Rudman,Director of the Gun Club- active in the noise
abatement program - Council should be aware that it would be
impossible to assure 'a noise reduction to the Nelson/Hageman
property until it is physically achieved and can be measured or
the Club can prove it has a technique available, at which point
some assurance can be made to this effect.
--Morgan - outlined the pro and cons for both parties - concerned
about the safety factor and some need for a buffer zone and a
provision where the Gun Club will not be forced to restrict
their activities or leave the City. Also concerned about the
soils - Recommended delaying action on the rezoning until the
full Council is present - and, suggested the developers and Gun
Club meet and try and develop a compromise for buffering and
land use.
CITY COUNCIL MEETING, MARCH 1, 1983
NO
R'. PLANNING COMMISSION REPORT¢
A. Nelson/Hageman Rezoning:
MIS/ Morgan/Fraser to defer action
Rezoning request until the proposal
considered by the full Council.
Discussion -
on the Nelson Hageman
can be reviewed and
--Fraser - would like to see a plan where the property owners can
proceed with development of their property with cooperation
reached between both property owners.
--Hageman - despite zdningintends to build -home on this site.
Stillwillbe,congerned about the shooting, no matter how many,.
homes are built,
-Dunn - , as population density increases so increases
social and economic problems - when or if property is rezoned_-ptoblems
will be created for future residents and/or the Gun Club.
Motion carried 4-0. Item deferred until the March 15 meeting.
B. Johnson/En�wer' Rezoning - Administrator Whittaker reviewed the
Planning Commission recommendation to approve the rezoning,
* approve the
'amended M/S/P Fraser/Morgan to rezoning of
3/15/83 a ten (10)acre-parcel to R-1 from Rural Residental owned by
Alvin Schaerer, located in Section 4 at the intersection of 55th
Street and Demontreville Trail, for Robert Engwer and Ronald
Johnson, Grant Land ERA, rezoning applicants, per -the Planning
j Commission recommendation. Carried 4-0.
9. OLD BUSINESS:
A. ordinance 79,42 - D'og\Licens'es
M/'S/P Fraser/Mazzara to adopt Ordinance 7942, an Ordinance amending
the term of Dog Licenses and Redodi£ying Chapter 1400 of the 1979
Municipal Code of Lake Elmo. Carried 4-0.
B. Ordinance 7943 Licenses -
M/S/P Mazzara/Dunn to adopt Ordinance 7943, an Ordinance providing
for the City Administrator to issue licenses for coin operated
machines and certain occupations and recodifying chapter 1100 of the
1979 Municipal Code. Carried 4-0.
ADJOURN: M/S/P Morgan/Dunn to adjourn at 9:30 p.m. Carried 4-0.
ORDINANCES:
7942 - Dog Licenses - Recodifying Chapter 1400
7943 - Licensing -Coin Operated & Occupation- Reco3ifying
Chapter 1100.
CLAIMS TO BE APPROVED AT MARCH 1, 1983 LAKE ELMO COUNCIL MEETING
83506
State Treasurer - DNR well permit $
5.00
83507
Council of Bldg. Officials -Jim's school
90.00
83508
Lampert Bldg. Center - Wet -Dry shop vac
39.97
83509
Postmaster - postage meter
200.00
83510
Void
83511
Commissioner of Revenue - February state withholding
885.00
83512
St.Treas. - Social Security withheld for Feb.
1,738.34
83513
State Bank of Lake Elmo - February federal wh.
1,893.50
83514
Washington National Insurance - March hose.
1,113.59
83515
Minn. Benefit Assn. - March premium
26.40
83516
Allied Croup Ins. Trust - March premium
88.32
83517
Laurence Whittaker - March expense
50.00
83518
Lake Elmo Associates Ltd - March rent
1,669.00
83519
James McNamara - February mileage
178.60
83520
Ilene Johnson - 2/15 council meeting minutes
98.65
83521
Mary Meyer - 2/22/83 newsletter
200.00
83522
Northwestern Bell
306.18
83523
Northern States Power
1,364.31
83524
Washington County Surveyors Office - map
2.50
83525
T S B Computer Center - water dept. billing
87.50
83526
St. Paul Dispatch - Pump ad $ 58.52
Ag preserve 1'10.20
168.72
83527
Road Rescue - Fire Dept. - EMS-
59.84
83528
Schwantes - Fire dept furnace repair
50.00
83529
M-R Sign Company - maintenance dept. flash tubes
46.38
83530
N,S.P. - maintenance dept. - slag
43.75
83531
I.C.M.A, - Maintenance dept. - book
28.00
83532
Walton Products - shop vac attachments
13.15
83533
Mike Pott - plow & sweep skating rink - parks
263.75
83534
City of North St. Paul - animal control vehicle
125.00
83535
Gerald Dahlberg - February animal control officer
274.00
83536
T K D A - General $ 469.35
Water Department 61.85
201,Step 2 & 3 application 424.55
Pass Thru 167.88
Sec. 32 plan 848.99
Waste to Energy 387.36
M.S.A. 301.63
1983 St. Rehabilitation 592.53
Reid Park Improvements 923.16
4,177.30
83537
thru 83550 March 4th payroll
5,500.00
20,806.75