HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-24-91 Special CCMLAKE ELMO CITY COUNCIL MINUTES SEPTEMBER 24, 1991 1
LAKE ELMO CITY COUNCIL MINUTES
SPECIAL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 24, 1991
Mayor Johnson called the Special Council meeting
5:00 p.m, in the City Council chambers. Present:
Johnson, Hunt, Dick Johnson, Mottaz, Williams and
Administrator Kueffner.
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to order at
Mayor
Present: Wally Ebertz, Lenore Mottaz, Dick Hughes, Paul
Emerson, Richard McNamara, Jack Dolan, Jim Peterson, Steven
DeLapp, Corrinne Reed, Bill Woodworth, David Lang, Violet
Durow, Marilyn Durow, William Durow, LouAnne Hanson, D.W.
Prue, Bob Ungerman, D.Bratton, George Burkard, Dorothy
Lyons, Rita Conlin, Margaret Carlson, and Ann Bucheck
Mayor Johnson explained this was a special council workshop
to discuss with property owners within the area proposed for
a Municipal Urban Service Area (MUSA) the feasibility and
desirability of approving this comprehensive plan amendment.
Bob Ungerman, Lampert Yards, asked why the extension was 1/4
N. instead of a 1/2 mile. A 1/4 mile takes in their entire
strip of the northern end of their property. Is the MUSA
brought in for sewer and is it designed to service a larger
area than just a 1/4 mile strip?
Councilman Williams: The answer to your questions is the
MUSA extension definitely to provide sewer and water to this
area.
Councilman Hunt: There is a debate over 1/4 mile versus 1/2
mile. The PZ evaluated the Council's proposal for 1/2 mile
and came back with a recommendation for 1/4 mile with 1/2
mile bulge. This was based on their estimation of traffic,
County Road 13 goes up 1/4 mile to the frontage road and
County Road 19 goes up an 1/8th of a mile. Why do you think
it should be a 1/4 of a mile or a 1/2 mile?
Councilman Johnson: pointed out the area that was
designated on the FLUMap as LB (limited business) was a 1/4
mile strip. If the strip was any wider it would be
servicing business off the freeway and you would move
commercial farther into the City. SAC units are called for
with the existing MUSA line. We would have to borrow SAC
units from Woodbury or Oakdale on a temporary basis unless
another interceptor is brought up from Cottage Grove area
going south thru Woodbury. There is a limit to the number of
SAC units available so we cannot make this an extensive
extension of the sewer service.
LAKE ELMO CITY COUNCIL MINUTES SEPTEMBER 24, 1991 2
Councilman Mottaz: I made the original motion requesting
the MUSA extension 1/2 mile. At one time Lake Elmo had
Section 32 defined as the MUSA area. We lost Section 32 to
Oakdale so we lost all the MUSA area along with 6,000 SAC
units that were assigned to Lake Elmo. We had nothing else
in Lake Elmo where we were authorized.to extend the
municipal services. The extension 1/2 mile north of County
Road 13 and down a 1/2 mile east of 19 would replace what
the City lost in Section 32. In addition to that, Woodbury
has just successfully petitioned to have the MUSA line
extended to the East and a 1/2 mile beyond County Road 19.
This would match up with any commercial development that
would take place with our neighbors to the south.
Richard McNamara: Happy to see the City go ahead with this
to take advantage of the MUSA. It will give the city a tax
base and help reduce taxes for people who want to live here.
I would be in favor of the 1/2 mile because you will get the
nice office complexes and good developments that have need
for a large area. The surrounding communities will take
advantage of the MUSA opportunity if Lake Elmo doesn't.
Martin Colon, owns 50 acres NW corner of County Road 19 and
I-94 and goes back 1/2 mile, and is in favor of 1/2 mile
extension if you really want quality development. The MUSA
line does not obligate the City to do anything in
particular. All it does is reserve those particular SAC
units for the use of the City as it see fits. If you look
at Minnesota Mining, Honeywell, General Mills, you see the
type of properties they develop a 1/2 mile back. Real estate
taxes are going to get a lot worse and it would be a benefit
to all to get out there and encourage these developments of
this nature to help the tax payer. The City will have to
take the lead and put the ordinance into effect.
Councilman Hunt: Currently Woodbury has extended their MUSA
and Oakdale is gobbling up the east end. We are going to be
in competition with those two cities. It is not a foregone
conclusion that the Met Council will approve our full
request. The City is going to make a request to the Met
Council, and the City can only hope they will approve it.
It is the appropriate time to make that request. '
Mayor Johnson: We want to insure the property owners that
we were not conveying any false hopes or impressions about
what MUSA is or what it can do. A simple extension of the
MUSA does not guarantee that sewer will be extended to any
property within the that MUSA area. It has been the policy
of the City that extension of services would be tied to a
development request, something that could support extension
of services.
LAKE ELMO CITY COUNCIL MINUTES SEPTEMBER 24, 1991 3
Councilman Hunt: The current development we are looking at
is at the corner of County Road 13 and 94. To physically
run a pipe there and service that land is very easy but the
size of the pipe has to be larger. This means the Council
has to figure out a way of how to pay for that larger pipe.
If you set up a plan that will call for those services and
run those services out, you have to make sure all the piping
is large enough to serve the total development when done.
As a council we have to look into options: bonding,
assessing, should we go 1/2 or 1/4 mile. Before I would
vote in favor of running the pipe, I want to get feelings on
how the landowners would feel about getting assessed.
Martin Colon: If you put in the pipe to benefit me, I would
pay a certain portion of that and accept an assessment on
the property. It can't all happen for the benefit of one
property owner.
Dick Johnson: Is it conceivable where a large development
comes in and requires the services, but the other landowners
along that route do not want the service at that time, the
developer pay for it. As other users are added to the line,
the developer is reimbursed for that. I don't think the
taxpayers of Lake Elmo want to foot the bill to get
development.
Martin Colon: I got into a situation where City of
Mahtomedi wasn't providing the service so I got them from
White Bear. It ran by a series of houses. I funded the
entire project, but when the individual houses connected to
the watermain I got the money thru an agreement with the
city of White Bear. The mechanism is there.
Bob Ungerman: It's fine for a developer to accept the costs
because he can subdivide the land and sell it off in pieces.
It is very tough for a business owner to absorb those costs
and pass them on to the customer. It's not that we are not
in favor of the extension, but you have to look at the
developer versus an operating business.
Mayor Johnson: Once the MUSA is in, it will be our concern
as to how we can achieve our goals, which are not to insure
premature assessment on non -union properties and not to give
false hopes, but also to allow people who own property there
achieve their goals of developing.
Councilman Williams: (Addressing the operating businesses
along the area) You said you are in favor of extending the
sewer, but how do you pay for it. How can you do both?
LAKE ELMO CITY COUNCIL MINUTES SEPTEMBER 24, 1991 4
Bob Ungerman: We don't want to stand in the way of
developing an area and are willing to pay our fair share.
You cannot look at an existing business that is going to
stay there on a 10 acre lot the same as a development area
off 50 acres.
Councilman Williams: Are you implying that there should be
a different amount compared per acre. Ungerman: I don't
know. If we don't have to sign up because the sewer is
going in front of us and the previous owner put in a new
septic system, we may not need sewer for another 20 years.
Mayor Johnson; Our goal is to make sure that you don't pay
before you would otherwise have to use it. This is one of
the problems we do face.
Councilman Williams: I have stated in the past I am very
concerned about not putting the local businesses who are
already there and operating out -of -business or for the
farmers to have to sell their farms if they don't want to..
I don't want to force them to have to develop to sell their
businesses.
Richard McNamara: Could the City Engineer look at a 1/2
mile perimeter and break down the cost per acre and show us
what the cost of this would be based on the different sizing
of pipe? I think the sizing of the pipe is minor when you
start running this down to the benefitted parties. The
benefitted parties that are going to be in here are a small
percentage. You will bring in more people into that
commercial corridor. The existing business people are
probably going to get more business to help pay for this.
It should benefit them in the long run.
Mayor Johnson: I would not be adverse once we establish
this area is worthwhile and get projects specific to ask
this very same group to talk about it some more.
Councilman Mottaz: I don't think there is anyone on the
Council that want to see any businessman be put out of
business or any farmers be put off their farm. There are
several financial options available to us. When it comes to
the final vote there is not anyone here that would be in
favor of running anyone out of business or off of their
farm.
Mayor Johnson: The property along the freeway is uniquely
situated for some type of commercial development. Property
within the area that has Municipal urban services available
to it is much more valuable than property that does not
have. This means we can go for a higher quality of
development with some size to it which could provide the tax
revenue that we want. Your concern of premature assessments
is our concern as well.
LAKE ELMO CITY COUNCIL MINUTES SEPTEMBER 24, 1991 5
Violet, Marilyn Durow: We are the farmers who have 60
acres. we are confused and concerned about getting
assessed.
Martin Colon: By going to 1/2 mile, the initial cost of any
interceptor or trunk line would be spread over twice the
property.
Councilman Williams: If you size the facility for the 1/2
mile area, then those properties that are paying for it up
front are going to pay a lot more than if it was sized for a
1/4 mile.
Bob Ungerman: Could there be something put in the city
council minutes that states the wish of the City Council
that there would be no premature assessments.
Steve DeLapp: Is the type of high quality commercial office
park development comfortable with the landowners to the east
of Highway 13.
Martin Colon: The intersection should go into some type of
retail mode.
Wally Ebertz Owns property by County Road 19 and 94. I
would not want to see the Council narrowly or specifically
decide the land use along the frontage, but should let the
marketplace dictate land use and keep an open mind.
Mayor Johnson: What are the kinds of things you would not
see as likely candidates for a high quality development
district with reference to your property.
Wally Ebertz: It is hard to see the entire stretch develop
into office park use.
Bob Ungerman: A lumber yard does not necessarily fit into
high class office park.
Jack Dolan, Dolan Marine: I came to the meeting for
information, gather thoughts, and then make a decision.
Dorothy Lyons: We live outside of the MUSA area. Lake Elmo
is unique and concurs with the adjacent property owners in
favor of 1/2 mile extension. We don't have to make the same
mistakes as Bloomington or Roseville. I would like to see
more business come into the area and do not want to see any
leave. Asked the City Engineer to look into how land could
be serviced on the north side.
LAKE ELMO CITY COUNCIL MINUTES SEPTEMBER 24, 1991 6
Councilman Williams: What happened in Section 32 we had a
MUSA area, and the policy was, we will extend utilities if a
proposal comes in and supports it. No proposal ever came in
and still a proposal has not come in. The landowners said
Lake Elmo is unwilling to work with us so we are going to
Oakdale. Are we setting ourselves up for the same thing
here? If we put this MUSA in and state our policy is "we
will extend utilities, but only when development proposals
come in that can support it", are you property owners going
to say Lake Elmo is not willing to deal with us so we are
going to Woodbury?
Martin Colon: I for one will not. I am in Lake Elmo now
and intend to stay here. I signed the petition before
because we had a zoning issue. Now the zoning issue is
resolved. I guarantee you I will not be signing any
petition to go to Woodbury.
Richard McNamara: It wouldn't hurt to put an "Open for
Business Sign" out there. Lake Elmo has never had that,
Oakdale and Woodbury has.
Durows: Are you willing to sit down and discuss a
development proposal if someone comes in? Would you consider
changing zoning and some rules? This is why we signed the
annexation petition because the City was unwilling to
discuss it. Woodbury has done this and we have had
marvelous luck with them.
Councilman Hunt: The City has changed over the last 5 years
and the conditions have changed. The council has to
determine at what rate do the people want to see changes and
improvements in this city. The Council has always been
willing and, in fact, went out to solicit West Publishing
with a proposal.
Councilman Johnson: the purpose of tonights meeting is we
want to have a dialogue and understand what your situation
is, your wants are, along with all the desires of the rest
of Lake Elmo. We will never solve problems unless we have a
dialogue.
Councilman Williams: Are there any other property owners
who want to say anything regarding this annexation question
because it is an extremely important question. (No response
from audience).
LAKE ELMO CITY COUNCIL MINUTES SEPTEMBER 24, 1991 7
Jim Peterson, Trail Head Development: Responding as
landowner outside the MUSA, I ask the Council to consider
those outside of the MUSA as effected by the issue as well
as those inside the MUSA. I personally do not have any
problems with your goals to solve your tax problems and
encourage you to proceed. If there are any changes that
would affect those outside, such as a change of the FLUmap,
I ask that you let those property owners know. Those that
have city services extended to their property will realize a
great appreciation in property value. Those on the other
side will not see that. It seems only fair that those who
realize the appreciation are most able to afford any buffer
required. At what point in the process is zoning addressed
and would the underlining zoning that is currently in place
follow this process through or would zoning be addressed at
a later time.
Councilman Williams: In the past it has been project
specific because it was set up this way for Section 32. I
am not sure that worked. The question of how the zoning is
going to proceed is open. A Future Land Use Map was set up
specifically for Section 32, but it wasn't rezoned. We were
waiting for some one to come with a proposal consistent with
the FLUmap and then rezone it. We will probably have some
type of FLUmap for this area. Maybe we should rezone the
entire area right from the beginning. Then it does put out
the sign "Open for Business". Zoning will come later because
we do not have standards for a zoning ordinance for that
kind of development.
Councilman Johnson: Limited Business District is a new
zoning for the City. The PZ has been working on this zoning
district, but it has not been passed because they are
waiting until the MUSA can be determined to be extended.
Martin Colon: Unisys in Eagan has a particular zoning
classification called R&D, Research & Dev. The buildings
are as nice and clean as any office building. This could be
something to keep in mind. Also, there is a high power line
going down along the mid section line with a 90' easement on
his property that should be considered.
Bill Woodworth, Economic Advisory Committee member, noted he
has lived in Lake Elmo for 20+ years and felt this meeting
was a real crossing point because people are talking to each
other about the future. It is just great.
The Council thanked everyone for coming.
LAKE ELMO CITY COUNCIL MINUTES SEPTEMBER 24, 1991 8
October has been officially recognized as "Domestic Violence
Awareness Month", therefore the following Proclamation was
made:
WHEREAS, societal indifference contributes to the
endangerment of women and their children, and to the
mistaken belief of batterers that they are within their
rights,
WHEREAS, the problems of domestic violence are not
confined to any one group of people but cross all
economical, racial, affectional preference and societal
barriers,
WHEREAS, it is battered women who have been in the
forefront of efforts to bring peace and equality to the
home,
WHEREAS, the crime of domestic violence violates an
individual's privacy, dignity, security, and humanity,
WHEREAS, the impact of domestic violence is wide
ranging, affecting society as a whole.
NOW, THEREFORE, IN RECOGNITION OF THE IMPORTANT WORK
DONE BY DOMESTIC VIOLENCE PROGRAM, I, DAVID JOHNSON, MAYOR
OF THIS CITY DO HEREBY PROCLAIM, THE MONTH OF OCTOBER, 1991,
"DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AWARENESS MONTH" AND URGE ALL CITIZENS TO
PARTICIPATE IN SCHEDULED ACTIVITIES AND WORK TOWARD THE
ELIMINATION OF PERSONAL AND INSTITUTIONAL VIOLENCE AGAINST
WOMEN.
Resolution Commending the Lake Elmo Jaycees:
M/S/P Dave Johnson/Mottaz - to adopt Resolution No. 91-31
commending all of the current and former Lake Elmo Jaycees
involved in "Huff N'Puff" Days and particularly wishes to
extend its appreciation and congratulations to the executive
committee. (Motion carried 5-0).
The Council adjourned the Special workshop at 6:35 p.m.