HomeMy WebLinkAbout05-01-75 PZMCITY OF LAKE ELMO
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF THE PUBLIC HEARING ON MAY 1, 1975
The Public Hearing was called to order by Chairman Johnson at
7:30 p.m.
PRESENT: Mayor, City Council, PZC and interested citizens. (See attached
list)
OPENING: Mayor Eder introduced Ralph Rovie, manager of the Lake Elmo
Airport and the Downtown Airport. Ron Weiry, manager of the
Crystal Anoka County and Flying Cloud Airport and also Tom O'Brie,
Bob Einswiler and David Braslauf. Chairman Johnson discussed the
goals of the hearing and the 3M letter which indicated that 3M was
not interested in the Lake Elmo Airport for its corporate fleet.
TOM O'BRIE
BOB EINSWELLER
Presented slides of the present airport. It is a basic utility
airport and the land has been purchased which will make it possible
to expand it to a general utility airport without further purchases
of property. The various plans were exhibited. Plan A with a
3500 foor landing strip in a northeast - southwest setting would
allow limited jet activity such asCessna and Citation. There would
be less noise from these jets than from certain propeller driven
planes. Plan B-1 is a basic transportation airport with a 6200
foot and 3900 foot airstrip in a SE -NW location and a 5500 and 3900
foot strip in a SW -NE location. Plan B-2 has a 5500 and 3600 strip
in a NW -SE alignment and a 4800 and 3000 foot strip in a SW -NE
alignment. Plan C has a 5500 and 3800 foot strip in an NW -SE
alignment and a 3800 and 5500 strip in a SW -NE alignment. Plan D
is a 4300 foot and 6200 foot strip in a N-S location and a 3800
and 5500 foot strip in a SW -NE location. Plan A would cost
2.4 to 3.2 million if approved. Plan B-1 would cost 5.3 to 6.6
million. Plan B-2 would cost 4.8 to 6.0 million. Plan C would
cost 5.6 to 7.0 million. Plan D would cost 5.5 to 6.8 million.
Plans B-1, B-2, C and D are all basic transportation airports.
There are fifteen steps to the upgrading of an airport. The Lake
Elmo Airport is currently in step six.
There are decibel limits set for airports and 90% of the time the
decibel limit must be met. Turbo props and jets make noise
contours. The projected noise contours for all the proposed plans
for the Lake Elmo Airports would not violate the pollution control
agency noise standards but it would create noise not present at the
airport now. The noise would be insufficient to create a legal
problem but might be enough for certain people to complain at various
times. The noise would have the least impact on existing development.
A general utility airport would have less problem with noise than
a basic transportation airport. In landings,Plan B-1 would be 150
feet over the highlands of the southeast. Lear jets are very noisy
but the newer engines being developed have less noise. During the
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PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING ON AIRPORT - MAY 1, 1975
years 1982 to 1985 the maximum jet engine noise will occur. After
that time the newer engines will be replacing the older engines
and the noise level should decline.
DAVID BRASLAUF Doctor Braslauf is an environmental advisor to MAC. The Jordan
water table lies 300 feet below Lake Elmo. The soil is suitable for
urban development and agriculture. There is no endangered species of
animals in Washington County. Doctor Braslauf can see no environ-
mental problems if expansion takes place.
LEOLGEHLHOFF Why is there zoning around the airport which seems to be in pre-
paration for airport expansion such as commercial zoning? Is
this preventative zoning?
ED STEVENS
A figure of 60% recreational was given before. Is this the same
percentage now? Yes, 60% of the users of the airport will be for
recreational purposes.
JAMES CLAGETT Who will be using the airport? There are now 150 planes based there.
Most of the owners are from Ramsey County. The major users listed
in the study are individuals. There are two corporations, Elmo
Airo and Mayer.
STEVE RALEIGH What foreseeable increase in use would cause MAC to recommend up-
grading the airport? MAC has gross regional projections. These
have then been allocated to the four regional airports. If correct
these projections indicate considerable growth in the metropolitan
area.
LANDINGS
1980 Constrained 155,000
Unconstrained 208,000
1985 Constrained 370,000
Unconstrained 490,000
AIRPLANES BASED AT LAKE ELMO AIRPORT
1973 158
1980 Constrained 180
Unconstrained
1995 Constrained 410
Unconstrained 535
What is constrained?
ELEANOR What would the Metropolitan Airports Commission do if the majority
RALEIGH of the residents of Lake Elmo did not want the airport enlarged?
MAC would consider the wishes of the people living in the area.
MAC considers Plan A to be the best. The people in the area do not
want jet traffic and Plan A would not have jet traffic. The demand
for jet traffic is sometime in the future. Mr. Claude Schmidt of
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PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING ON AIRPORT MAY 1, 1975
ED STEVENS
JAMES CLAGETT
TODD WILLIAMS
RONALD WEBER
MAYOR EDER
TOM KELLER
MAYOR EDER
LEO GEHLHOFF
CATHERINE
CROCKER
TOM KELLER
MAC stated that there are now on an average 250 landings per day.
In 1985 there will be an average of 725 landings per day. Ten to
fifteen percent of the landings occur in the maximum hour. The
landing activity has been stable over the last five years.
What about the total number of landings? No count is kept. The
peak is 10 to 15% of the total per day occuring in the peak hour.
Does the peak hour occur during the day or night? The majority
of operations are in the daylight.
What is displaced threshold and why is it necessary? The displaced
threshold is a point on the landing strip horizontally away from
the end where the planes have to land and take off from because of
the ground height, of the highway, railroad or other obstruction.
A plane landing from the opposite direction would however be able
to use this part of the landing strip for stopping.
Will 30th Street be re-routed? Yes it would have to be re-routed
to the quarter section line. Approximately a half mile further to
the south.
Gan a take -off pattern be controlled after the airplane has left
the ground? Claude Schmidt, the environmentalist, indicated that
he favors alternative A and that flight patterns can be worked
out and controls set so that once the planes take off they will not
be flying at low altitudes over housing areas.
A statement had been made by one of the MAC staff that the money for
the improvement of the airport does not come out of taxes. Mr.
Keller corrected this and discussed the use of dedicated funds and
how the public in the end is paying for the enlargement of the airport.
What about the man-made helicopters? The military helicopters and
various landings and take -offs that have been taking place by gyro
copters.
Without any control tower how do you monitor the flights from the
airport?
What about fire protection? Who is going to foot the bill for the
protection of the airport? If there is a crash who responds?
The MAC staff and councilman Pott indicated that the response would
come from the volunteer fire departments of Lake Elmo and surrounding
communities. There has been a fire at the airport and nine aircraft
were destroyed.
Mr. Keller stated his view on the airport and said that the MAC staff
should not be given the carte blanche for more land. He outlined
the following plan:
1. Have the airport stay as it is today and no more land be purchased.
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PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING ON AIRPORT - MAY 1, 1975
2. If more airport space is needed then another airport should be
built further to east in Wisconsin or further to the North.
3. The present airport should be used as either:
(a) A recreational center for the County because of its access
ability to the fairgrounds and to the entire Washington
County area.
(b) Small industrial purposes so that payrolls could be provided
for the Lake Elmo area.
LEO GEHLHOFF Mr. Gehlhoff stated that he was a member of the Lake Elmo Jaycees
and that the Jaycees have gone on record as being against any
expansion of the airport. If it is shown that space is needed and
airport sites should be chosen further to the north. The Jaycees
are against Plan A and feel that the noise level is too high.
ED STEVENS
There is parkland being bought near the airport. Why should the
many people going to use the park be subject to noise from the airport.
Less than 10% of the people use the airport.
TODD WILLIAMS Quieter engines cannot be legislated. They will have to be developed.
What about the development framework guide. County Road 80 has been
set as the limit for metropolitan services. Where will the sewage
from the airport go? What effect will drainage have on Downs Lake?
Mr. Williams is a member of ROAR, Residents Opposed to Airport
Redevelopment. A request was made for answers to questions which
were submitted to MAC some months age. MAC representive stated the
answers would be forthcoming in the next few days. A deadline of
May 6 was set. The answers are already five weeks late.
ROSS SCREATON Mr. Screaton is the Chairman of ROAR. He stated that jets can land
on Plan A and that the noise calculations which have been stated by
the scientists are false. There is no technique to measure rever-
beration. There will be a difference in the noise level in low areas.
VOTE. Chairman Johnson called the comment suggestion portion of the meeting
to a close and a straw vote was taken.
1. No expansion beyond present facilities, "basic utility". 39 in favor.
2. Expansion to general utility (existing MAC plans) 3
3. Expansion to basic transport (newest MAC proposal) 0
4. No opinion 0
A total of 63 individuals signed the roster which was passed around
to all present. A list of the names and addresses on that roster is
attached hereto as Exhibit A. Of the 63 people, 42 voted; 39 against
any expansion of the airport and 3 in favor of the expansion to Plan A.
No person present voted in favor of expansion of the airport to Plans
B-1, B-2, C or D. None of the persons present indicated that they had no
opinion.
ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at approximately 9:45 p.m.
Respectfully subted,
NAME
AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT ALTERNATIVES HEARING
May 1, 1975
ADDRESS
Gene Peltier
Ann Peltier
Evelyn Vincent
Caroline Erickson
Ron Wiire
Ralph Rovie
Claude C. Schmidt
William B. Olson
Edw. J. Stevens
Todd R. Williams
Herbert Crocker
Catherine Crocker
Thomas C. Deck
Ronald M. Weber
Kathy Weber
Gail Collyard
Danny Collyard
Ross Screaton
Tom Keller
Constance Smith
Emily Dornfield
Barbara Gilbertson
Clair P. Ruppert
James S. Clagett
Shireley Jahnke
Mrs. John Patton
Richard Muenich
Ed LeClair
Joan M. Eggert
Helen Hammes
Francis J. Pott
Dorothy Lyons
Tom Ironside
George Hile
Mr. and Mrs. James Buggert
Mr. and Mrs. Emil Theil
Mr. and Mrs. Duane Harder
Don Meyer
Eddie M. Fisk
Jay S. Raleigh
Mrs. Jerome Raleigh
Mrs. Irvine A. Beyl
Bob Dreher
Rick Huntley
LaDess Huntley
10376 Hudson Boulevard
10376 Hudson Boulevard
113 Radio Drive
3490 Hudson Road
2817 Legion Avenue North
St. Paul Downtown Airport Manager
Metro Airports Commission
Metro Airports Commission
10133 47th Street North
3075 Lake Elmo Avenue North
5093 Keats Avenue North
5093 Keats Avenue North
2790 Legion Avenue North
2797 Legion Avenue North
2797 Legion Avenue North
2814 Legion Avenue North
2814 Legion Avenue North
2474 Oakgreen Avenue North, Stillwater
2769 Lake Elmo Street North
3200 Lake Elmo Avenue North
11259 30th Street North
Midwest Planning
3733 Jamaca Avenue North
11357 30th Street North
11377 30 th Street North
3124 Laverne Court North
Washington County Planning
8243 Deer Pond Court
13737 Greenwood
10112 loth Street North
Councilman
Councilwoman
MAC Intern
3268
2891
2903
2778
3112
3115
5193
5193
Lampert Avenue
Legion Avenue North
Legion Avenue North
Legion Avenue
Layton Court North
Laverne Court North
Keats Avenue
Keats Avenue
7703 loth Street North
7515 10th Street North
11397 30th Street North
11397 30th Street North
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AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT ALTERNATIVES HEARING
Lorenz Nippoldt
Richard J. Coppersmith
Gene Froehner
Diane Lohmann
Lloyd Shervheim
Diane Cook
Raleane Kupferschmidt
Alan Kupferschmidt
Paul Emerson
Constance A. Smith
Mary Fodness
Snowell Raleigh
Judy Screaton
Leo Gehlhoff
Thomas G. Armstrong
c
3351 Lake Elmo Avenue North
11520 30th Street North
3490 Kelvin
13536 30th Street
3047 Klondike
2783 Legion Avenue
2769 Legion Avenue
2769 Legion Avenue
11678 20th Street North
3200 Lake Elmo Avenue
10920 North 32nd Avenue
3074 Laverne Court North
2474 Oakgreen Avenue North
2995 Legion Avenue
8291 15th Street North