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HomeMy WebLinkAbout05-01-75 PZMCITY OF LAKE ELMO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MINUTES OF THE PUBLIC HEARING ON MAY 1, 1975 The Public Hearing was called to order by Chairman Johnson at 7:30 p.m. PRESENT: Mayor, City Council, PZC and interested citizens. (See attached list) OPENING: Mayor Eder introduced Ralph Rovie, manager of the Lake Elmo Airport and the Downtown Airport. Ron Weiry, manager of the Crystal Anoka County and Flying Cloud Airport and also Tom O'Brie, Bob Einswiler and David Braslauf. Chairman Johnson discussed the goals of the hearing and the 3M letter which indicated that 3M was not interested in the Lake Elmo Airport for its corporate fleet. TOM O'BRIE BOB EINSWELLER Presented slides of the present airport. It is a basic utility airport and the land has been purchased which will make it possible to expand it to a general utility airport without further purchases of property. The various plans were exhibited. Plan A with a 3500 foor landing strip in a northeast - southwest setting would allow limited jet activity such asCessna and Citation. There would be less noise from these jets than from certain propeller driven planes. Plan B-1 is a basic transportation airport with a 6200 foot and 3900 foot airstrip in a SE -NW location and a 5500 and 3900 foot strip in a SW -NE location. Plan B-2 has a 5500 and 3600 strip in a NW -SE alignment and a 4800 and 3000 foot strip in a SW -NE alignment. Plan C has a 5500 and 3800 foot strip in an NW -SE alignment and a 3800 and 5500 strip in a SW -NE alignment. Plan D is a 4300 foot and 6200 foot strip in a N-S location and a 3800 and 5500 foot strip in a SW -NE location. Plan A would cost 2.4 to 3.2 million if approved. Plan B-1 would cost 5.3 to 6.6 million. Plan B-2 would cost 4.8 to 6.0 million. Plan C would cost 5.6 to 7.0 million. Plan D would cost 5.5 to 6.8 million. Plans B-1, B-2, C and D are all basic transportation airports. There are fifteen steps to the upgrading of an airport. The Lake Elmo Airport is currently in step six. There are decibel limits set for airports and 90% of the time the decibel limit must be met. Turbo props and jets make noise contours. The projected noise contours for all the proposed plans for the Lake Elmo Airports would not violate the pollution control agency noise standards but it would create noise not present at the airport now. The noise would be insufficient to create a legal problem but might be enough for certain people to complain at various times. The noise would have the least impact on existing development. A general utility airport would have less problem with noise than a basic transportation airport. In landings,Plan B-1 would be 150 feet over the highlands of the southeast. Lear jets are very noisy but the newer engines being developed have less noise. During the Page 2 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING ON AIRPORT - MAY 1, 1975 years 1982 to 1985 the maximum jet engine noise will occur. After that time the newer engines will be replacing the older engines and the noise level should decline. DAVID BRASLAUF Doctor Braslauf is an environmental advisor to MAC. The Jordan water table lies 300 feet below Lake Elmo. The soil is suitable for urban development and agriculture. There is no endangered species of animals in Washington County. Doctor Braslauf can see no environ- mental problems if expansion takes place. LEOLGEHLHOFF Why is there zoning around the airport which seems to be in pre- paration for airport expansion such as commercial zoning? Is this preventative zoning? ED STEVENS A figure of 60% recreational was given before. Is this the same percentage now? Yes, 60% of the users of the airport will be for recreational purposes. JAMES CLAGETT Who will be using the airport? There are now 150 planes based there. Most of the owners are from Ramsey County. The major users listed in the study are individuals. There are two corporations, Elmo Airo and Mayer. STEVE RALEIGH What foreseeable increase in use would cause MAC to recommend up- grading the airport? MAC has gross regional projections. These have then been allocated to the four regional airports. If correct these projections indicate considerable growth in the metropolitan area. LANDINGS 1980 Constrained 155,000 Unconstrained 208,000 1985 Constrained 370,000 Unconstrained 490,000 AIRPLANES BASED AT LAKE ELMO AIRPORT 1973 158 1980 Constrained 180 Unconstrained 1995 Constrained 410 Unconstrained 535 What is constrained? ELEANOR What would the Metropolitan Airports Commission do if the majority RALEIGH of the residents of Lake Elmo did not want the airport enlarged? MAC would consider the wishes of the people living in the area. MAC considers Plan A to be the best. The people in the area do not want jet traffic and Plan A would not have jet traffic. The demand for jet traffic is sometime in the future. Mr. Claude Schmidt of Page 3 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING ON AIRPORT MAY 1, 1975 ED STEVENS JAMES CLAGETT TODD WILLIAMS RONALD WEBER MAYOR EDER TOM KELLER MAYOR EDER LEO GEHLHOFF CATHERINE CROCKER TOM KELLER MAC stated that there are now on an average 250 landings per day. In 1985 there will be an average of 725 landings per day. Ten to fifteen percent of the landings occur in the maximum hour. The landing activity has been stable over the last five years. What about the total number of landings? No count is kept. The peak is 10 to 15% of the total per day occuring in the peak hour. Does the peak hour occur during the day or night? The majority of operations are in the daylight. What is displaced threshold and why is it necessary? The displaced threshold is a point on the landing strip horizontally away from the end where the planes have to land and take off from because of the ground height, of the highway, railroad or other obstruction. A plane landing from the opposite direction would however be able to use this part of the landing strip for stopping. Will 30th Street be re-routed? Yes it would have to be re-routed to the quarter section line. Approximately a half mile further to the south. Gan a take -off pattern be controlled after the airplane has left the ground? Claude Schmidt, the environmentalist, indicated that he favors alternative A and that flight patterns can be worked out and controls set so that once the planes take off they will not be flying at low altitudes over housing areas. A statement had been made by one of the MAC staff that the money for the improvement of the airport does not come out of taxes. Mr. Keller corrected this and discussed the use of dedicated funds and how the public in the end is paying for the enlargement of the airport. What about the man-made helicopters? The military helicopters and various landings and take -offs that have been taking place by gyro copters. Without any control tower how do you monitor the flights from the airport? What about fire protection? Who is going to foot the bill for the protection of the airport? If there is a crash who responds? The MAC staff and councilman Pott indicated that the response would come from the volunteer fire departments of Lake Elmo and surrounding communities. There has been a fire at the airport and nine aircraft were destroyed. Mr. Keller stated his view on the airport and said that the MAC staff should not be given the carte blanche for more land. He outlined the following plan: 1. Have the airport stay as it is today and no more land be purchased. Page 4 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING ON AIRPORT - MAY 1, 1975 2. If more airport space is needed then another airport should be built further to east in Wisconsin or further to the North. 3. The present airport should be used as either: (a) A recreational center for the County because of its access ability to the fairgrounds and to the entire Washington County area. (b) Small industrial purposes so that payrolls could be provided for the Lake Elmo area. LEO GEHLHOFF Mr. Gehlhoff stated that he was a member of the Lake Elmo Jaycees and that the Jaycees have gone on record as being against any expansion of the airport. If it is shown that space is needed and airport sites should be chosen further to the north. The Jaycees are against Plan A and feel that the noise level is too high. ED STEVENS There is parkland being bought near the airport. Why should the many people going to use the park be subject to noise from the airport. Less than 10% of the people use the airport. TODD WILLIAMS Quieter engines cannot be legislated. They will have to be developed. What about the development framework guide. County Road 80 has been set as the limit for metropolitan services. Where will the sewage from the airport go? What effect will drainage have on Downs Lake? Mr. Williams is a member of ROAR, Residents Opposed to Airport Redevelopment. A request was made for answers to questions which were submitted to MAC some months age. MAC representive stated the answers would be forthcoming in the next few days. A deadline of May 6 was set. The answers are already five weeks late. ROSS SCREATON Mr. Screaton is the Chairman of ROAR. He stated that jets can land on Plan A and that the noise calculations which have been stated by the scientists are false. There is no technique to measure rever- beration. There will be a difference in the noise level in low areas. VOTE. Chairman Johnson called the comment suggestion portion of the meeting to a close and a straw vote was taken. 1. No expansion beyond present facilities, "basic utility". 39 in favor. 2. Expansion to general utility (existing MAC plans) 3 3. Expansion to basic transport (newest MAC proposal) 0 4. No opinion 0 A total of 63 individuals signed the roster which was passed around to all present. A list of the names and addresses on that roster is attached hereto as Exhibit A. Of the 63 people, 42 voted; 39 against any expansion of the airport and 3 in favor of the expansion to Plan A. No person present voted in favor of expansion of the airport to Plans B-1, B-2, C or D. None of the persons present indicated that they had no opinion. ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at approximately 9:45 p.m. Respectfully subted, NAME AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT ALTERNATIVES HEARING May 1, 1975 ADDRESS Gene Peltier Ann Peltier Evelyn Vincent Caroline Erickson Ron Wiire Ralph Rovie Claude C. Schmidt William B. Olson Edw. J. Stevens Todd R. Williams Herbert Crocker Catherine Crocker Thomas C. Deck Ronald M. Weber Kathy Weber Gail Collyard Danny Collyard Ross Screaton Tom Keller Constance Smith Emily Dornfield Barbara Gilbertson Clair P. Ruppert James S. Clagett Shireley Jahnke Mrs. John Patton Richard Muenich Ed LeClair Joan M. Eggert Helen Hammes Francis J. Pott Dorothy Lyons Tom Ironside George Hile Mr. and Mrs. James Buggert Mr. and Mrs. Emil Theil Mr. and Mrs. Duane Harder Don Meyer Eddie M. Fisk Jay S. Raleigh Mrs. Jerome Raleigh Mrs. Irvine A. Beyl Bob Dreher Rick Huntley LaDess Huntley 10376 Hudson Boulevard 10376 Hudson Boulevard 113 Radio Drive 3490 Hudson Road 2817 Legion Avenue North St. Paul Downtown Airport Manager Metro Airports Commission Metro Airports Commission 10133 47th Street North 3075 Lake Elmo Avenue North 5093 Keats Avenue North 5093 Keats Avenue North 2790 Legion Avenue North 2797 Legion Avenue North 2797 Legion Avenue North 2814 Legion Avenue North 2814 Legion Avenue North 2474 Oakgreen Avenue North, Stillwater 2769 Lake Elmo Street North 3200 Lake Elmo Avenue North 11259 30th Street North Midwest Planning 3733 Jamaca Avenue North 11357 30th Street North 11377 30 th Street North 3124 Laverne Court North Washington County Planning 8243 Deer Pond Court 13737 Greenwood 10112 loth Street North Councilman Councilwoman MAC Intern 3268 2891 2903 2778 3112 3115 5193 5193 Lampert Avenue Legion Avenue North Legion Avenue North Legion Avenue Layton Court North Laverne Court North Keats Avenue Keats Avenue 7703 loth Street North 7515 10th Street North 11397 30th Street North 11397 30th Street North Page 2 AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT ALTERNATIVES HEARING Lorenz Nippoldt Richard J. Coppersmith Gene Froehner Diane Lohmann Lloyd Shervheim Diane Cook Raleane Kupferschmidt Alan Kupferschmidt Paul Emerson Constance A. Smith Mary Fodness Snowell Raleigh Judy Screaton Leo Gehlhoff Thomas G. Armstrong c 3351 Lake Elmo Avenue North 11520 30th Street North 3490 Kelvin 13536 30th Street 3047 Klondike 2783 Legion Avenue 2769 Legion Avenue 2769 Legion Avenue 11678 20th Street North 3200 Lake Elmo Avenue 10920 North 32nd Avenue 3074 Laverne Court North 2474 Oakgreen Avenue North 2995 Legion Avenue 8291 15th Street North