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HomeMy WebLinkAbout05-13-75 PZMAGENDA--PLANNING-ZONING COMMISSION CITY OF LAKE ELMO, MINN. 55042 MEETING TO BE HELD TUESDAY, MAY 13, 1975. 7:30 P.M.-- Roll Call Approval of Minutes HEARING: Allied Properties Rezoning & Platting for "Demontreville Highlands" 8:30 P.M.-- HEARING: Paul Emerson Plat --(Eden Park) 9:00 P.M -- Variance-- John Friedrich--3263 Lake Elmo Ave. Building permit for garage in addition to existing garage, 9:15 P.M.-- Cary Breheim--8375-38th. ST. No. Special Use Permit for swimming pool at above address. 9:30 P.M.-- Eldon Loescher File. (rezoning) 9:45 P.M.-- Maynard Eder File: (Eder, Mayer, Slinde) Platting. 10:00 P.M,-- Lehart Friedrich Discuss lot size (lot 3, Cty. Aud. Plat 8) 10:15 P.M.-- Airport Resolution Note from Chairman: Please make every attempt to be at the meeting promptly at 7:30 P.M., because of the amount of items that have to be considered. CITY OF LAKE ELMO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF MAY 13TH, 1975 Meeting called to order by Chairman Johnson at 7:38 P.M. PRESENT: Johnson, Williams, Dreher, Froehner, Grace, Sovereign and Armstrong. MINUTES: Due to heavy schedule, minutes will be held meeting for approval. Lundquist, Novak, over until next DEMONTREVILLE Allied Properties has requested a rezoning of the Crombie Farm HIGHLANDS from A to SFS. A presentation was made by Roger Derrick and Robert M. Gottsacker. A list of those persons present at the hearing is contained at Exhibit "A" to these minutes. The total acreage is 125.96, to be divided into lots larger than one acre. Derrick became interested in the property more than two years ago and has developed a few conceptual plans. This Plan is a three phase residential development. There is no sewer or water. The lot size was planned so that it would be too small for later subdivision and yet not too big so that the sewer assessments, when and if they come, would not bankrupt the home owner. There are 93 lots planned. VERA CHARBOUNEAU What will be done with the rearing pond? Derrick - an easement will be dedicated to the Village or the Tri-Lakes Association so that it will be cared for. MRS. JEROME RALEIGH Questioned the size of the lots. ROY BROGREN Do the lots on the Lake include Lake Shore? Yes PAUL E. HANSEN In the south-east corner of the Plat isn't the lake shore there publically owned? Derrick unsure and is investigating. Johnson questioned the feasibility of access to the lake for those who do not own lake shore. Who will own the access and who will care for it. Derrick said they were flexible on this point - possibly the Tri-Lakes Association might want it. Froehner asked whether there was access from the proposed city park to the lake. Park is acquiring access, but this will not allow docks to be built as with proposal by Derrick for non -lake shore lot owners. Sovereign stated that there should be no docking fac- ilities for non lake shore owners. ROBERT CHARBOUNEAU Will the lake shore be altered? No. KEN SOVEREIGN is a member of the Tri-Lakes Subcommittee that is investigating the development. He has gone into the details and checked on the ownership of the development group. He fought any development before, but this looks good. Big homes, large lots, good tax base, phased development, looks good. He is against public use of the Lake by those who do not own lake shore. If the DNR doesn't want the rearing pond, the Tri-Lakes Association does. The recommendation of the subcommittee is to approve the plans, the full board hasn't met yet. A public access would be too much trouble to police and clean up. Joe Anderlik, city engineer, indicated that an A zoning requires MINUTES OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MAY 13, 1975 DEMONTREVILLE five acre lots. No rezoning should be allowed since the HIGHLANDS sewer is more than five years away. Lots smaller than 1 1/2 (Cont) acres must be sewered within five years. In the framework development guide, less than 1 1/2 acre lots are considered urban. Derrick - the one acre size came from the ordinance. the average is 1 1/4, largest 2.2, and smallest 1 acre. The 125 foot frontage is also from the ordinance. Gottsacker talked about soil and said there were no perc tests yet. Sovereign said the soil could be too good for the sewage and result in it going right on into the lake because of the fine quick drainage. Anderlik said that the lots would pay about $7,000.00 for sewers when and if they came in. Possibly $15,000.00 on the lake shore lots. The Plat does not have provision for further subdivision. Gottsacker - they do not want further subdivision. Derrick the lot sizes were designed to prevent further subdivision. Anderlik - the ordinance requires that when large lot sizes are shown, ther must be further subdivision plans - there is no problem with this from an engineering standpoint, just a legal requirement. VERA CHARBOUNEAU in any stipulation, there should be a requirement that the lots along the lake cannot be further subdivided. KEN SOVEREIGN The setback requirement is now 30 feet. Sovereign what about lot 15 on the lake, is it buildable? Dreher questioned lots 14, 19 & 20, what part was buildable on these? The 100 year flood level in 932. NANCY HANSEN If this project is given an approval will there be sewer in five years? ROBERT CHARBOUNEAU There is a culvert under 13 near his property that may carry more water when housing is put in and damage his land. Derrick and Gottsacker said that wouldn't happen. The City Engineer's letter states that 13 will probably be turned over to the city as a collector street. JESS MOTTAZ Questioned regarding the park in the center of the plat Anderlik stated that the collector sewer would follow along the oil pipe line and cut through the proposed park. There are two ponds - one wet all the time and one further back. DNR reportedly wants the two ponds and 5-7 acres total. The concept of a holding pond was discussed. Gottsacker said that the Nutrient Generation in the pond is now 1.16 and that development would add .33 to it. A permit to fill will be needed for lots 9-13 As to roads, ther will be ditch blockes every 100 feet to prevent erosion and hold the water. City Engineer wants easement from Long Lake to DeMontreville Lake, since this is not now park, it should be taken for flowage. Derrick said they will give the easement. Block 10 drainage was discussed. Gottsacker said that in Block 2 Lots 8-12, there will be fill added from the road so that houses can be placed. Septic tanks must be one foot into natural soil. City Engineer letter questioned the 34% figure for runoff as being too low. Block 4, Gottsacker said they would move the road back from the lake so there would be 100 feet between road and lake. Pere tests will be made by Gottsacker for the area. MINUTES OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MAY 13, 1975 DEMONTREVILLE ROY BROGREN How many acres do you own? 131.8 in this plan HIGHLANDS but the total is 290 acres. There is an overall plan on (Cont.) file. MRS. JEROME RALEIGH Will there be low cost housing? Gottsacker said that the area not now under consideration will be something other than housing ROY BROGREN What is the PZC idea for the area? NANCY HANSEN Which school district will it be in. All in 622. BIRGER HAMMER How will the lots be marketed? All will be sold individually to homeowners. JESS MOTTAZ This hearing is for rezoning ang platting, will the Park Commission be getting input? ROBERT OLSON Asked the location of the rest of the 290 acres. At 9:10 P.M. the Public Hearing was closed. EDEN PARK Bruce Foltz presented the proposed plat of the Paul Emerson PLAT Property. Attached as Exhibit "B" is a list of those persons present. The area is 77 acres north of Tartan Park. Pete Durand owns the land to the west. Morgan owns to the north. The Northern Natural Gas line runs through the property north -south. One of the problems is with the Watershed District. The Overall plan says that Downs Lake will flow to the west into Lake Elmo. The plat allows a 40 foot easement to the pond. Downs and Lake Elmo should be the same level. Lake Elmo is 884-885 normal and 891 Flood elevation. The plat leaves the land below 885 in the pond and no buildings or drainfield will be below 891. The VBWSD has approved the plat. The soil is very granular and erosion control during construction is a problem. There is a 40 foot easement betwwen lots 9 & 10 between Downs Lake and the pond. There is also a walking easement around Downs. Downs is marginal for recreation it is over 25 acres and in the natural fowage, the lake is not meandered, it is fee owned to the center. There is a dedicated 6 acre open space. the area is not buildable and the owner will consider a per centage credit or cash settlement. The Bonestroo Letter of May 9, was discussed point by point. It is attached hereto. 1. Foltz stated that trees will have to be cut, but no more than necessary. He asked preliminary approval before the PZC goes into too much detail and requires costly analysis on tree cutting. Anderlik said the back slope distance should be seen now, for example, what about the large amount of fill necessary on lot 4? Foltz said that the ordinance doesn't call fro a grading plan at the preliminary stage. The fill on lot 4 will be a function of the percentage of the street grade 8Z local and 6% collector is the city standard. 2. Foltz doubts the pipe will be exposed. 3. Cul-de-sacs - Anderlik states that 60 feet is necessary and best for snow removal. Foltz - more trees will be taken. 4 - 8 discussed briefly 9. The Pipe Line Company will release part of its easement - 17 feet on either side to make the lots buildable. 10 & 11 will be in the grading plan. 12. Perc tests will be run 13. The PZC members questioned the feasibility of the plat in terms MINUTES OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MAY 13, 1975 EDEN PARK PLAT (Cont.) FRIEDRICH GARAGE BREHEIM POOL of its distance from other development. There is a plat west of Durand. Ther is proposed in Eden Park 47 lots on 77 acres for an average of 1.64 per lot. No rezoning is needed, it is zoned for one acre lots. JOHN LESLIE Owns the corner lot in the SW corner of the proposed development. Will his sewer assessment be higher on a corner lot? Anderlik No. As to flowage, county road 15 blocked the original flowage from Downs Lake to the St. Croix. PETE DURAND is not in favor of the road on the west of the plat, it would take 40 feet of his property. Foltz had propsed to Durand that foltz would build the road if Durand gave him the land. The water runs east not west - only once in 25 years did it run west. EARL GOERSS owns property north of the plat. What about 25th street, will it come onto his property and cut off 75 feet of his land to the south of the road? JOHN LESLIE How will it affect the taxes? PAUL EMERSON is the owner of the plat they will be sold over six years. He is keeping a lot for himself JEAN DURAND is against condemnation of the land owned by her family on the west of the plat. Foltz had evidently threatened or implied that there would be condemnation if the land was not given over for the road. The Durands are against this. LOREN WENZEL What about noise during construction and the airport noise. Leslie stated that the noise is not great from the planes. The Public Hearing was closed at 10:39 P.M. John Friedrich lives at the 32nd Street and Lake Elmo Road on a corner lot. The ordinance forbids more than 2 outbuildings on a lot and he wants to put an additional garage up. The lot is 150 X 250. The plans are to enlarge the basement of the present garage to another garage. The PZC members felt that this was really not a second outbuilding but an enlargement of the first. the total square footage would be under 1000 and the project appears proper under the ordinances. Friedrich will provide a sketch to the building inspector and no variance will be necessary. Mr. Breheim was not present but Stan Berry Products, North St. Paul, the pool builder The pool requires a special use permit but under the ordinance without going through 508 of the City Code. of Minnesota Package was at the meeting. it can be granted the PZC. See Chapter LAUSENG Mr. Lauseng runs a Landscaping Supply Business on 36. He wants a change in his Special Use Permit so he can be open on Sunday from 10 to 5:00 P.M. His business is located 1 1/4 mile west of County Road 17. Johnson found no complaints in the file. Lundquist asked about a screen of trees between his business and 36. MOTION by Armstrong The PZC recommends to the City Council that, provided the signatures of all residents within 350 feet of Lauseng's property are obtained to a letter approving the extra hours, the Special use permit be changed by the Council to allow the extra hours of 10:00 A.M. to 5:00 P.M. on Sundays for the rest of the 1975 season. MINUTES OF LAUSENG (Cont.) LEHART FRIEDRICH LOESCHER THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF MAY 13, 1975 SECOND by Sovereign VOTE All in favor Friedrich questioned the PZC regarding Lot 3 of County Auditor's Plat 8. He owns the lot and would like to divide it in half. This lot is to the we-t of the Loescher property. He will sell half to Earl Goerss for storage facilities for his oil business. The PZC told Friedrich to discuss the problem with the City Attorney and determine whether the lot sizes will be large enough after a subdivision. A house is presently on the east half. An opinion was received from the City Attorney stating that the lot size requirements apply to each unit. MOTION by Williams Based on the City Attorney's Opinion the PZC rejects the application for rezoning and recommends to the Council that it be denied because the dwelling proposed will require more square footage than is available. SECOND by Grace VOTE All in favor DEMONTREVILLE MOTION by Lundquist HIGHLANDS In as much as the City of Lake Elmo is currently engaged in revising PLAT its comprehensive plan, and inasmuch as sewer plans for the north west corner of Lake Elmo are currently under consideration in connection with the "Lake Elmo- Tri-Lakes Interceptor Facilities Plan" of the Metropolitan Waste Control Commission, it is recommended that the PZC ask Alliend Properties to defer their request for rezoning of DeMontreville Highlands for a few months until we have made some progress on our Comprehensive Plan and our Tri-Lakes Sewer Plans and that the Chairman of the PZC send a letter to Allied Properties with this request. SECOND by Grace VOTE All in favor. AIRPORT MOTION The original Motion by Williams has been tabled awaiting a public meeting on the airport after discussion the following motion was submitted MOTION by Williams WHEREAS the Lake Elmo Planning and Zoning Commission has reviewed the plans and alternatives for expansion and development of the Lake Elmo Airport by the Metropolitan Airports Commission; and WHEREAS the Lake Elmo P.Z.C. has received opinions from many residents of Lake Elmo and other communities in Washington County, regarding the above -mentioned plans; and WHEREAS the majority of Lake Elmo Residents responding are opposed to any expansion and development of the Lake Elmo Airport beyond its present facilities; and, WHEREAS there appear to be no substantial benefits to be gained by Lake Elmo, or by other surrounding communities, or by Washington County as a whole, as a result of the expansion and development of the Lake Elmo Airport beyond its present facilities; and WHEREAS any expansion of the Lake Elmo Airport will be accompanied MINUTES OF THE LAKE ELMO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MAY 13, 1975 AIRPORT by significantly adverse environmental impacts due to noise, air (Cont.) pollution, and ground water contamination; THEREFORE, be it resolved, that the Lake Elmo Planning and Zoning Commission go on record as opposing the expansion and development of the Lake Elmo Airport beyond its present facilities. SECOND by Armstrong VOTE In Favor Johnson, Williams, Froehner, Novak and Armstrong Against Dreher, Grace, Lundquist and Sovereign. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 12:15 A.M. on May l4th THE NEXT MEETING WILL BE TUESDAY MAY 27th 1975 at 7:30 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Thomas G. Armstrong Secretary au-kx EXHIBIT "A" DEMONTREVILLE HIGHLANDS HEARING NAME Mrs. Ethel Holt Pastor Everett Holt Robert R. Charbouneau Vera E. Charboneau Lyonell Ostrom Mrs. Charles Erickson Renee Guindon Mrs. Lawrence Kleis Mrs. Jerome Raleigh Jeanne Perrin Frank Perrin Roy Brogren Nancy N. Hansen Paul E. Hansen William Schumacher, Jr. Alan McKown L. A. Franta ( -lernice Schultz Jarol Meade LuJean Swanlund Birger J. Hammer Kenneth N. Lowe Elma M. Lowe Veronica Crombie Brian Crombie Robert R. Olson Dorothy Lyons Jess Mottaz Lenore Mottaz Jol Mead ADDRESS 7920 Hill Trail North 7920 Hill Trail North 7821 DeMontreville Trail North 7821 DeMonteville Trail North 4885 Flag Avenue North, New Hope 1023 Adam'Street, Anoka 8321 DeMontreville Trail North 9241 60th Street North 5193 Keats Avenue North, 8108 Hill Trail North 8108 Hill Trail North 4769 Olson Lake Trail North 8024 Hill Trail North 8024 Hill Trail North 8186 Hill Trail North 7808 DeMontreville `<`Trail North 4968 Olson Trail Forth 4816 Olson Lake Trail North 4911 Olson Lake Trail North 4920 Olson Lake Trail North 8109 Hidden Bay Trail North 7818 50th Street North 7818 50th Street North 8014 DeMontreville Trail North 8718 DeMontreville Trail North 10072 North 10th Street 7982 Hill Trail North 7982 Hill Trail North 4911 Olson Lake Trail North NAME EXHIBIT "B" EDEN PARK HEARING ADDRESS John H. Leslie Mr. and Mrs. Peter Durand Jean Durand Mr. and Mrs. Paul Emerson Terry Emerson Mr. and Mrs. Lren Wenzel Mr. and Mrs. LeRoy Augustine Earl Goerss Dorothy Lyons 11546 20th Street North 11332 20th Street North 11332 20th Street North 11678 20th Street North 11992 loth Street North 10280 Hudson Boulevard 2490 Manning Avenue North 3250 Kraft Avenue North 10072 North loth Street BoneRosen* 4oeds4144 44041 itste4, Asa awaiting gesepieseess 2335 W. `1 ash illyhdoo f 36 Pam:, Mliauui. o4a 551/3 Phase: 636-4600 May 9, 1975 City of Lake Elmo Lake Elmo, Mn. 55042 Attn: Mr. Don Mehsikomer Re: Eden Park Plat Section 24 Gentlemen: Otto G. Bonestroo, P.E. Robert W. Rosene. P.E. Joseph C. Anderdk, P.E. Bradford A. Lemberg, P.E. Robert D. Frigaard, P.E. Richard E. Turner, P.E. James C. Olson, P.E. Lawrence F. Feldslen, P.E. Glenn R. Cook, P.E. Keith A. Gordan. P.E. Thomas E. Noyes, P.E. Charles A. Erickson Richard W. Foster Robert G. Schunicht Marvin L. Sorvala We have completed a preliminary review of the Eden Park Plat submitted to our office on April 28, 1975 by Orr-Schelen-Mayeron & Assoc., Inc. Our review has been based upon the data received. No grade was submitted for 25th Street which should be required to review all potential lot use. The following items are provided to the City for action: 1. Considerable quantities of trees will be covered during grading due to excessive fill. Protection of trees may be desirable using retaining walls if tree life is of concern. The back slope distance should be indicated on a plat for review by the Planning Commission for an objective decision. 2. The gas pipe on Legion Trail will be exposed from station 11+00 to 13+50 if the cut section indicated is provided in full cross-section. Prior to grade or plat approval a full cross-section for this distance in cut must be provided. 3. The radii of cul-de-sacs are shown as 50 feet. The normal radius is 60 feet. 4. The street grade sections are not shown for full street right-of-way width. All slopes must not exceed 3 to 1. 5. Grading for streets must include stump clearing and removal. All future utilities would be a problem in the plat unless this procedure is followed due to excessive fill sections. 6. The park space indicated is basically open space. Use of the land for normal park purposes will be very limited. 7. An easement must be provided for storm sewer and future sanitary sewer on Legion West. This cul-de-sac will require storm sewer. Page 1. City of Lake Elmo May 9, 1975 Lake Elmo, Mn. 55042 Re: Eden Park Plat 8. A future sanitary sewer will extend from Legion Trail to Legion Avenue through the park area. Easements for this prupose are necessary. 9. The land is zoned single family urban. Future sub -division of lots is indicated on the plat. Some of these future lots indicate houses on the gas easement which would not be permitted. Unless the gas company assures a release for this purpose the following lots look questionable; Block 1, Lot 7 Block 2, Lots 4 & 23 Block 4, Lot 9 10. The house development plan is necessary prior to approval of street grades. In Block 1, lot 3 a house would be placed on 20 feet of fill. 11. The slope of lots for development as the home floor relates to finished street grade is excessive or greater than 15 feet which should be reviewed for the following lots: Block 2, Lots 2 & 3 Block 3, Lot 1 Block 4, Lot 8 12. Percolation data should be provided for septic tank systems. The tree cover and drain field design should be reviewed for practical use on the lots with excessive slope and fill. 9 13. The Planning Commission should review the Metropolitan Framework Develop- ment Guide to relate platting in areas where sanitary sewer is not programmed for 20 years. If an area is outside the sewer service area lot size should be reviewed as the size relates to the proposed Guide. If sewer can be provided in 5 years there should not be concern for development. Further comments will be provided as the data is received. Yours very truly, BONESTROO ROSENE, ANDERLIK & ASSOCIATES, INC. Otto G. Bonestroo OGB:li cc: Don Raleigh, Atty. Mr. Richard Johnson Page 2.