HomeMy WebLinkAbout05-13-75 PZMAGENDA--PLANNING-ZONING COMMISSION
CITY OF LAKE ELMO, MINN. 55042
MEETING TO BE HELD TUESDAY, MAY 13, 1975.
7:30 P.M.-- Roll Call
Approval of Minutes
HEARING: Allied Properties
Rezoning & Platting for
"Demontreville Highlands"
8:30 P.M.-- HEARING: Paul Emerson Plat --(Eden Park)
9:00 P.M -- Variance-- John Friedrich--3263 Lake Elmo Ave.
Building permit for garage in addition to
existing garage,
9:15 P.M.-- Cary Breheim--8375-38th. ST. No.
Special Use Permit for swimming pool at above
address.
9:30 P.M.-- Eldon Loescher File. (rezoning)
9:45 P.M.-- Maynard Eder File: (Eder, Mayer, Slinde)
Platting.
10:00 P.M,-- Lehart Friedrich
Discuss lot size (lot 3, Cty. Aud. Plat 8)
10:15 P.M.-- Airport Resolution
Note from Chairman: Please make every attempt to be at the
meeting promptly at 7:30 P.M., because
of the amount of items that have to be
considered.
CITY OF LAKE ELMO
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF MAY 13TH, 1975
Meeting called to order by Chairman Johnson at 7:38 P.M.
PRESENT: Johnson, Williams, Dreher, Froehner, Grace,
Sovereign and Armstrong.
MINUTES: Due to heavy schedule, minutes will be held
meeting for approval.
Lundquist, Novak,
over until next
DEMONTREVILLE Allied Properties has requested a rezoning of the Crombie Farm
HIGHLANDS from A to SFS. A presentation was made by Roger Derrick and
Robert M. Gottsacker. A list of those persons present at the
hearing is contained at Exhibit "A" to these minutes.
The total acreage is 125.96, to be divided into lots larger than
one acre. Derrick became interested in the property more than
two years ago and has developed a few conceptual plans. This Plan
is a three phase residential development. There is no sewer or
water. The lot size was planned so that it would be too small
for later subdivision and yet not too big so that the sewer
assessments, when and if they come, would not bankrupt the home
owner. There are 93 lots planned.
VERA CHARBOUNEAU What will be done with the rearing pond?
Derrick - an easement will be dedicated to the Village or the
Tri-Lakes Association so that it will be cared for.
MRS. JEROME RALEIGH Questioned the size of the lots.
ROY BROGREN Do the lots on the Lake include Lake Shore? Yes
PAUL E. HANSEN In the south-east corner of the Plat isn't the
lake shore there publically owned? Derrick unsure and is investigating.
Johnson questioned the feasibility of access to the lake for those
who do not own lake shore. Who will own the access and who will
care for it. Derrick said they were flexible on this point -
possibly the Tri-Lakes Association might want it.
Froehner asked whether there was access from the proposed city park
to the lake. Park is acquiring access, but this will not allow
docks to be built as with proposal by Derrick for non -lake shore
lot owners. Sovereign stated that there should be no docking fac-
ilities for non lake shore owners.
ROBERT CHARBOUNEAU Will the lake shore be altered? No.
KEN SOVEREIGN is a member of the Tri-Lakes Subcommittee that is
investigating the development. He has gone into the details and
checked on the ownership of the development group. He fought any
development before, but this looks good. Big homes, large lots,
good tax base, phased development, looks good. He is against public
use of the Lake by those who do not own lake shore. If the DNR
doesn't want the rearing pond, the Tri-Lakes Association does.
The recommendation of the subcommittee is to approve the plans, the
full board hasn't met yet. A public access would be too much
trouble to police and clean up.
Joe Anderlik, city engineer, indicated that an A zoning requires
MINUTES OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MAY 13, 1975
DEMONTREVILLE five acre lots. No rezoning should be allowed since the
HIGHLANDS sewer is more than five years away. Lots smaller than 1 1/2
(Cont) acres must be sewered within five years. In the framework
development guide, less than 1 1/2 acre lots are considered
urban. Derrick - the one acre size came from the ordinance.
the average is 1 1/4, largest 2.2, and smallest 1 acre. The
125 foot frontage is also from the ordinance. Gottsacker
talked about soil and said there were no perc tests yet.
Sovereign said the soil could be too good for the sewage and
result in it going right on into the lake because of the
fine quick drainage. Anderlik said that the lots would pay
about $7,000.00 for sewers when and if they came in.
Possibly $15,000.00 on the lake shore lots.
The Plat does not have provision for further subdivision.
Gottsacker - they do not want further subdivision. Derrick
the lot sizes were designed to prevent further subdivision.
Anderlik - the ordinance requires that when large lot sizes
are shown, ther must be further subdivision plans - there is
no problem with this from an engineering standpoint, just a
legal requirement.
VERA CHARBOUNEAU in any stipulation, there should be a requirement
that the lots along the lake cannot be further subdivided.
KEN SOVEREIGN The setback requirement is now 30 feet.
Sovereign what about lot 15 on the lake, is it buildable?
Dreher questioned lots 14, 19 & 20, what part was buildable
on these? The 100 year flood level in 932.
NANCY HANSEN If this project is given an approval will there be
sewer in five years?
ROBERT CHARBOUNEAU There is a culvert under 13 near his property
that may carry more water when housing is put in and damage his
land. Derrick and Gottsacker said that wouldn't happen.
The City Engineer's letter states that 13 will probably be turned
over to the city as a collector street.
JESS MOTTAZ Questioned regarding the park in the center of the plat
Anderlik stated that the collector sewer would follow along the
oil pipe line and cut through the proposed park.
There are two ponds - one wet all the time and one further back.
DNR reportedly wants the two ponds and 5-7 acres total. The concept
of a holding pond was discussed. Gottsacker said that the Nutrient
Generation in the pond is now 1.16 and that development would add
.33 to it. A permit to fill will be needed for lots 9-13
As to roads, ther will be ditch blockes every 100 feet to prevent
erosion and hold the water. City Engineer wants easement from
Long Lake to DeMontreville Lake, since this is not now park, it
should be taken for flowage. Derrick said they will give the
easement.
Block 10 drainage was discussed. Gottsacker said that in Block 2
Lots 8-12, there will be fill added from the road so that houses
can be placed. Septic tanks must be one foot into natural soil.
City Engineer letter questioned the 34% figure for runoff as being
too low. Block 4, Gottsacker said they would move the road back
from the lake so there would be 100 feet between road and lake.
Pere tests will be made by Gottsacker for the area.
MINUTES OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MAY 13, 1975
DEMONTREVILLE ROY BROGREN How many acres do you own? 131.8 in this plan
HIGHLANDS but the total is 290 acres. There is an overall plan on
(Cont.) file.
MRS. JEROME RALEIGH Will there be low cost housing? Gottsacker
said that the area not now under consideration will be something
other than housing
ROY BROGREN What is the PZC idea for the area?
NANCY HANSEN Which school district will it be in. All in 622.
BIRGER HAMMER How will the lots be marketed? All will be sold
individually to homeowners.
JESS MOTTAZ This hearing is for rezoning ang platting, will the
Park Commission be getting input?
ROBERT OLSON Asked the location of the rest of the 290 acres.
At 9:10 P.M. the Public Hearing was closed.
EDEN PARK Bruce Foltz presented the proposed plat of the Paul Emerson
PLAT Property. Attached as Exhibit "B" is a list of those persons
present. The area is 77 acres north of Tartan Park. Pete Durand
owns the land to the west. Morgan owns to the north. The
Northern Natural Gas line runs through the property north -south.
One of the problems is with the Watershed District. The Overall
plan says that Downs Lake will flow to the west into Lake Elmo.
The plat allows a 40 foot easement to the pond. Downs and Lake
Elmo should be the same level. Lake Elmo is 884-885 normal and
891 Flood elevation. The plat leaves the land below 885 in the
pond and no buildings or drainfield will be below 891. The
VBWSD has approved the plat. The soil is very granular and erosion
control during construction is a problem.
There is a 40 foot easement betwwen lots 9 & 10 between Downs
Lake and the pond. There is also a walking easement around Downs.
Downs is marginal for recreation it is over 25 acres and in the
natural fowage, the lake is not meandered, it is fee owned to the
center. There is a dedicated 6 acre open space. the area is not
buildable and the owner will consider a per centage credit or cash
settlement. The Bonestroo Letter of May 9, was discussed point
by point. It is attached hereto.
1. Foltz stated that trees will have to be cut, but no more than
necessary. He asked preliminary approval before the PZC goes into
too much detail and requires costly analysis on tree cutting.
Anderlik said the back slope distance should be seen now, for example,
what about the large amount of fill necessary on lot 4? Foltz
said that the ordinance doesn't call fro a grading plan at the
preliminary stage. The fill on lot 4 will be a function of the
percentage of the street grade 8Z local and 6% collector is the city
standard.
2. Foltz doubts the pipe will be exposed.
3. Cul-de-sacs - Anderlik states that 60 feet is necessary and best
for snow removal. Foltz - more trees will be taken.
4 - 8 discussed briefly
9. The Pipe Line Company will release part of its easement - 17 feet
on either side to make the lots buildable.
10 & 11 will be in the grading plan.
12. Perc tests will be run
13. The PZC members questioned the feasibility of the plat in terms
MINUTES OF
THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MAY 13, 1975
EDEN PARK
PLAT (Cont.)
FRIEDRICH
GARAGE
BREHEIM
POOL
of its distance from other development. There is a plat west of
Durand. Ther is proposed in Eden Park 47 lots on 77 acres for
an average of 1.64 per lot. No rezoning is needed, it is zoned
for one acre lots.
JOHN LESLIE Owns the corner lot in the SW corner of the proposed
development. Will his sewer assessment be higher on a corner lot?
Anderlik No. As to flowage, county road 15 blocked the
original flowage from Downs Lake to the St. Croix.
PETE DURAND is not in favor of the road on the west of the plat,
it would take 40 feet of his property. Foltz had propsed to
Durand that foltz would build the road if Durand gave him the land.
The water runs east not west - only once in 25 years did it run
west.
EARL GOERSS owns property north of the plat. What about 25th
street, will it come onto his property and cut off 75 feet of
his land to the south of the road?
JOHN LESLIE How will it affect the taxes?
PAUL EMERSON is the owner of the plat they will be sold over six
years. He is keeping a lot for himself
JEAN DURAND is against condemnation of the land owned by her
family on the west of the plat. Foltz had evidently threatened
or implied that there would be condemnation if the land was not
given over for the road. The Durands are against this.
LOREN WENZEL What about noise during construction and the airport
noise. Leslie stated that the noise is not great from the planes.
The Public Hearing was closed at 10:39 P.M.
John Friedrich lives at the 32nd Street and Lake Elmo Road on a
corner lot. The ordinance forbids more than 2 outbuildings on a
lot and he wants to put an additional garage up. The lot is 150
X 250. The plans are to enlarge the basement of the present
garage to another garage. The PZC members felt that this was
really not a second outbuilding but an enlargement of the first.
the total square footage would be under 1000 and the project
appears proper under the ordinances. Friedrich will provide a
sketch to the building inspector and no variance will be necessary.
Mr. Breheim was not present but Stan Berry
Products, North St. Paul, the pool builder
The pool requires a special use permit but
under the ordinance without going through
508 of the City Code.
of Minnesota Package
was at the meeting.
it can be granted
the PZC. See Chapter
LAUSENG Mr. Lauseng runs a Landscaping Supply Business on 36. He wants a
change in his Special Use Permit so he can be open on Sunday from
10 to 5:00 P.M. His business is located 1 1/4 mile west of County
Road 17. Johnson found no complaints in the file. Lundquist
asked about a screen of trees between his business and 36.
MOTION by Armstrong
The PZC recommends to the City Council that, provided the signatures
of all residents within 350 feet of Lauseng's property are obtained
to a letter approving the extra hours, the Special use permit be
changed by the Council to allow the extra hours of 10:00 A.M. to
5:00 P.M. on Sundays for the rest of the 1975 season.
MINUTES OF
LAUSENG
(Cont.)
LEHART
FRIEDRICH
LOESCHER
THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF MAY 13, 1975
SECOND by Sovereign
VOTE All in favor
Friedrich questioned the PZC regarding Lot 3 of County Auditor's
Plat 8. He owns the lot and would like to divide it in half.
This lot is to the we-t of the Loescher property. He will sell
half to Earl Goerss for storage facilities for his oil business.
The PZC told Friedrich to discuss the problem with the City
Attorney and determine whether the lot sizes will be large enough
after a subdivision. A house is presently on the east half.
An opinion was received from the City Attorney stating that the
lot size requirements apply to each unit.
MOTION by Williams
Based on the City Attorney's Opinion the PZC rejects the application
for rezoning and recommends to the Council that it be denied
because the dwelling proposed will require more square footage
than is available.
SECOND by Grace
VOTE All in favor
DEMONTREVILLE MOTION by Lundquist
HIGHLANDS In as much as the City of Lake Elmo is currently engaged in revising
PLAT its comprehensive plan, and inasmuch as sewer plans for the north
west corner of Lake Elmo are currently under consideration in
connection with the "Lake Elmo- Tri-Lakes Interceptor Facilities
Plan" of the Metropolitan Waste Control Commission, it is
recommended that the PZC ask Alliend Properties to defer their
request for rezoning of DeMontreville Highlands for a few months
until we have made some progress on our Comprehensive Plan and
our Tri-Lakes Sewer Plans and that the Chairman of the PZC send
a letter to Allied Properties with this request.
SECOND by Grace
VOTE All in favor.
AIRPORT
MOTION
The original Motion by Williams has been tabled awaiting a public
meeting on the airport after discussion the following motion
was submitted
MOTION by Williams
WHEREAS the Lake Elmo Planning and Zoning Commission has reviewed
the plans and alternatives for expansion and development of the
Lake Elmo Airport by the Metropolitan Airports Commission; and
WHEREAS the Lake Elmo P.Z.C. has received opinions from many
residents of Lake Elmo and other communities in Washington County,
regarding the above -mentioned plans; and
WHEREAS the majority of Lake Elmo Residents responding are opposed
to any expansion and development of the Lake Elmo Airport beyond
its present facilities; and,
WHEREAS there appear to be no substantial benefits to be gained by
Lake Elmo, or by other surrounding communities, or by Washington
County as a whole, as a result of the expansion and development
of the Lake Elmo Airport beyond its present facilities; and
WHEREAS any expansion of the Lake Elmo Airport will be accompanied
MINUTES OF THE LAKE ELMO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MAY 13, 1975
AIRPORT by significantly adverse environmental impacts due to noise, air
(Cont.) pollution, and ground water contamination;
THEREFORE, be it resolved, that the Lake Elmo Planning and Zoning
Commission go on record as opposing the expansion and development
of the Lake Elmo Airport beyond its present facilities.
SECOND by Armstrong
VOTE In Favor Johnson, Williams, Froehner, Novak and Armstrong
Against Dreher, Grace, Lundquist and Sovereign.
ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 12:15 A.M. on May l4th
THE NEXT MEETING WILL BE TUESDAY MAY 27th 1975 at 7:30 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Thomas G. Armstrong
Secretary
au-kx
EXHIBIT "A"
DEMONTREVILLE HIGHLANDS HEARING
NAME
Mrs. Ethel Holt
Pastor Everett Holt
Robert R. Charbouneau
Vera E. Charboneau
Lyonell Ostrom
Mrs. Charles Erickson
Renee Guindon
Mrs. Lawrence Kleis
Mrs. Jerome Raleigh
Jeanne Perrin
Frank Perrin
Roy Brogren
Nancy N. Hansen
Paul E. Hansen
William Schumacher, Jr.
Alan McKown
L. A. Franta
( -lernice Schultz
Jarol Meade
LuJean Swanlund
Birger J. Hammer
Kenneth N. Lowe
Elma M. Lowe
Veronica Crombie
Brian Crombie
Robert R. Olson
Dorothy Lyons
Jess Mottaz
Lenore Mottaz
Jol Mead
ADDRESS
7920 Hill Trail North
7920 Hill Trail North
7821 DeMontreville Trail North
7821 DeMonteville Trail North
4885 Flag Avenue North, New Hope
1023 Adam'Street, Anoka
8321 DeMontreville Trail North
9241 60th Street North
5193 Keats Avenue North,
8108 Hill Trail North
8108 Hill Trail North
4769 Olson Lake Trail North
8024 Hill Trail North
8024 Hill Trail North
8186 Hill Trail North
7808 DeMontreville `<`Trail North
4968 Olson Trail Forth
4816 Olson Lake Trail North
4911 Olson Lake Trail North
4920 Olson Lake Trail North
8109 Hidden Bay Trail North
7818 50th Street North
7818 50th Street North
8014 DeMontreville Trail North
8718 DeMontreville Trail North
10072 North 10th Street
7982 Hill Trail North
7982 Hill Trail North
4911 Olson Lake Trail North
NAME
EXHIBIT "B"
EDEN PARK HEARING
ADDRESS
John H. Leslie
Mr. and Mrs. Peter Durand
Jean Durand
Mr. and Mrs. Paul Emerson
Terry Emerson
Mr. and Mrs. Lren Wenzel
Mr. and Mrs. LeRoy Augustine
Earl Goerss
Dorothy Lyons
11546 20th Street North
11332 20th Street North
11332 20th Street North
11678 20th Street North
11992 loth Street North
10280 Hudson Boulevard
2490 Manning Avenue North
3250 Kraft Avenue North
10072 North loth Street
BoneRosen* 4oeds4144 44041 itste4, Asa
awaiting gesepieseess
2335 W. `1 ash illyhdoo f 36
Pam:, Mliauui. o4a 551/3
Phase: 636-4600
May 9, 1975
City of Lake Elmo
Lake Elmo, Mn. 55042
Attn: Mr. Don Mehsikomer
Re: Eden Park Plat
Section 24
Gentlemen:
Otto G. Bonestroo, P.E.
Robert W. Rosene. P.E.
Joseph C. Anderdk, P.E.
Bradford A. Lemberg, P.E.
Robert D. Frigaard, P.E.
Richard E. Turner, P.E.
James C. Olson, P.E.
Lawrence F. Feldslen, P.E.
Glenn R. Cook, P.E.
Keith A. Gordan. P.E.
Thomas E. Noyes, P.E.
Charles A. Erickson
Richard W. Foster
Robert G. Schunicht
Marvin L. Sorvala
We have completed a preliminary review of the Eden Park Plat submitted to our
office on April 28, 1975 by Orr-Schelen-Mayeron & Assoc., Inc.
Our review has been based upon the data received. No grade was submitted for
25th Street which should be required to review all potential lot use. The
following items are provided to the City for action:
1. Considerable quantities of trees will be covered during grading due to
excessive fill. Protection of trees may be desirable using retaining walls
if tree life is of concern. The back slope distance should be indicated on a
plat for review by the Planning Commission for an objective decision.
2. The gas pipe on Legion Trail will be exposed from station 11+00 to
13+50 if the cut section indicated is provided in full cross-section. Prior to
grade or plat approval a full cross-section for this distance in cut must be
provided.
3. The radii of cul-de-sacs are shown as 50 feet. The normal radius is
60 feet.
4. The street grade sections are not shown for full street right-of-way width.
All slopes must not exceed 3 to 1.
5. Grading for streets must include stump clearing and removal. All future
utilities would be a problem in the plat unless this procedure is followed due
to excessive fill sections.
6. The park space indicated is basically open space. Use of the land for
normal park purposes will be very limited.
7. An easement must be provided for storm sewer and future sanitary sewer on
Legion West. This cul-de-sac will require storm sewer.
Page 1.
City of Lake Elmo May 9, 1975
Lake Elmo, Mn. 55042
Re: Eden Park Plat
8. A future sanitary sewer will extend from Legion Trail to Legion Avenue
through the park area. Easements for this prupose are necessary.
9. The land is zoned single family urban. Future sub -division of lots is
indicated on the plat. Some of these future lots indicate houses on the gas
easement which would not be permitted. Unless the gas company assures a release
for this purpose the following lots look questionable;
Block 1, Lot 7
Block 2, Lots 4 & 23
Block 4, Lot 9
10. The house development plan is necessary prior to approval of street
grades. In Block 1, lot 3 a house would be placed on 20 feet of fill.
11. The slope of lots for development as the home floor relates to finished
street grade is excessive or greater than 15 feet which should be reviewed for
the following lots:
Block 2, Lots 2 & 3
Block 3, Lot 1
Block 4, Lot 8
12. Percolation data should be provided for septic tank systems. The tree
cover and drain field design should be reviewed for practical use on the lots
with excessive slope and fill.
9
13. The Planning Commission should review the Metropolitan Framework Develop-
ment Guide to relate platting in areas where sanitary sewer is not programmed
for 20 years. If an area is outside the sewer service area lot size should be
reviewed as the size relates to the proposed Guide. If sewer can be provided
in 5 years there should not be concern for development.
Further comments will be provided as the data is received.
Yours very truly,
BONESTROO ROSENE, ANDERLIK & ASSOCIATES, INC.
Otto G. Bonestroo
OGB:li
cc: Don Raleigh, Atty.
Mr. Richard Johnson
Page 2.