HomeMy WebLinkAbout05-27-75 PZMAGENDA -PLANNING -ZONING COMMISSION
CITY OF LAKE ELMO, MINN. 55042
MEETING TO BE HELD TUESDAY, MAY 27, 1975.
7:30 P.M.-- Roll Call
Approval of Minutes
7:45 P.M.-- Gary Schoonover--2086 Ivy, No. St. Paul, 55119
Home-797-2570-Business 777-8368
Check Lot 1, Berschens Shores --is lot buildable?
8:15 P.M.-- Roger 'Derrick --Robert Gottsacker from
Allied Properties regarding the
Demontreville Highlands Plat.
8:45 P.M.-- Discuss Paul Emerson Plat (Eden Park)
ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION:
CITY OF LAKE ELMO
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF MAY 27, 1975
Meeting called to Order at 7:50 P.M. by Chairman Johnson.
PRESENT: Johnson, Williams, Dreher, Novak, Sovereign and
Armstrong
MINUTES: MOTION by Williams to approve minutes of the April
8, meeting as amended by the following change:
At the MUSEGADES section, line 6, change "Zoning
Code" to read"Washington County Model Zoning Code."
SECOND by Novak
VOTE All in favor
MOTION by Williams to approve the minutes of the
April 28 meeting
SECOND by Dreher
VOTE All in favor
SCHOONOVER Gary Schoonover requested the Commission's opinion
on whether Lot 1, Berschens Shores is a buildable
lot. The lot is located on the East end of Lake
Jane. Lot 2, next to it, is a drainage right-of-
way. The dimensions are 104 feet wide on the lake-
front, 100 feet wide on the road. One side is 262
feet long and the other side is 300 feet long. The
lot does not have the 125 foot frontage required
on the lakeshore but since the area was plated be-
fore the ordinance this may not be a problem. Mr.
Schoonover was advised to go to the Water Shed
District and request their opinion.
DEMONTREVILLE
HIGHLANDS PLAT Roger Derrick of Allied Properties was present along
with Robert Gottsacker, their engineer to dis-
cuss further questions regarding the proposed De-
Montreville I3ighland's Plat. Mr. Derrick indicated
that they did not desire at this point to postpone
their request for a re -zoning and a preliminary
approval of the plat until September of 1975.
Chairman Johnson had requested this delay in a letter
of May 16. This letter of May 16 along with the
Derrick Company's two letters of response on May 27
are attached to these minutes. Upon questioning,
Mr. Derrick indicated the following ownership dis-
tribution:
(
MINUTES OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING May 27, 1975
DEMONTREVILLE 1.
HIGHLANDS PLAT
(Cont.)
Veronica M. Crombie is the fee owner of the
real estate.
2. Allied Properties, Inc. is the vendee under
a Contract for Deed. The president of the
corporation is Jerry Rosenzweig, Secretary
of the corporation is June Land who also
happens to be Rosenzweig's Secretary.
Rosenzweig is an attorney. Allied Properties
owns 35% of the development scheme.
3. The Derrick Company owns 20%.
4. Lake Elmo Investment Co. owns 25%. The
corporation is composed of Lee Sudit, Harvey
Rocklin and Joseph Yablonsky. These men are
all CPA's and members of a firm in Minneapolis.
5. Mrs. Carl Christensen, a widow owns 10%.
The decedent was an uncle of Roger Derrick.
6. Mrs. Edward Derrick, a widow, owns 10%. She
is the mother of Roger Derrick.
The developers have formed a limited partnership
called DeMontreville 290. Mr. Derrick then went
through the chronology of meetings and activities
concerning the Crombie property. This chronology
begins on July 2, 1973 and ends of May 13, 1975.
A copy of it is attached to these minutes. Derrick
indicated that they had met on this date with
Dave Licht of Midwest Planning. Derrick indicated
that they have to get moving on this project. The
developers need their cash back and they must move
soon. Derrick indicated that the project is di—
vided into three phases.
Phase I has 23 lots; Phase II has 24 lots and Phase
III has 46 lots.
Derrick would be willing to go for I and II at this
time with 47 lots and let Phase III ride. Questions
that arose involving the drainage and the rearing
pond costs. It was reported that Mayor Eder stated
that there was a man in the DNR who indicated that
there was money available and DNR would like to
buy the rearing ponds. Gottsacker indicated that
the pond on lots 9, 10, and 11 located on County
Road 13 would be filled. He stated that this was
MINUTES OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING May 27, 1975
DEMONTREVILLE more of an intermittant swamp and not part of the
HIGHLANDS PLAT rearing pond itself. Some of the road grades were
(Cont.) 10%.. The Village limit is 8%. Sovereign indicated
that she was against lake access for those not
owning lots on the lake, This would cause too
many people to use Lake DeMontreville. Derrick
indicated that in light of this feeling on the
part of the people in the tri-lakes area that they
would not set up any community access to Lake
DeMontreville. Question was raised as to whether
the southeast corner of the plat is an area where
there was already public access to the above lake,
Derrick and Gottsacker were not sure on this and
said they would find out. The question of environ-
mental quality assessment was raised. The Metro
Council has indicated that any area where sanitary
sewer cannot be provided within five years should
not be allowed to be developed in an urban fashion.
Anything less than 2-1/2 acres is considered to
be urban development. The PCA has indicated that
it wants lots of one acre sewered. Barbara Gilbert-
son indicated that there is a 208 study in process.
This is a Federal financed study for water manage-
ment in the Metropolitan area. The result of this
should have great impact on development. As to roads,
Derrick indicated that the County had given approval
to a drive -way entry, 125 feet on County Road 13.
The County has indicated that it would like 13
to be taken over by the City when a new north -south
route is determined. Dreher expressed concern
over the drainage of water through Charboneau
property. Gottsacker indicated that there would
be none flowing in that direction. The filled
swamptwould result in more water going into the
rearing pond. Williams did not agree with the
proposed drainage solutions and Gottsacker in-
dicated that the was willing to talk to the Village
Engineers about it. The Valley Branch Water Shed
District will be discussing this problem on June 12.
932 feet is flood elevation. Lots 2 through 6 in
Block 4 are bisected by the lake. The acreage
listed for them is not a full acre of high and dry
soil. Gottsacker indicated that the street to
the east of the lake could be moved further away
from the lake and that these lots could be made
bigger. There will be a drainage easement from
the pond in Block 4. This pond has no 100 year
flood mark. It is a land locked lake. The
access to the back of their lots for owners of
the lots 2 through 6 will be by walking around
the pond. The possibility of a walkway along
MINUTES OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING May 27, 1975
DEMONTREVILLE
HIGHLANDS PLAT
(Cont.)
EDEN PARK PLAT
the railroad right of way discussed by Derrick.
He indicated that this consideration was part of
their plansin drawing up the dedicated parkland
and outlot C. Derrick stated that the Tri-Lakes
Association was not in favor of five acre lots and
multiple dwellings. The possibility of submitting
this whole development through a.PUD request was
discussed and did not meet with favorable approval
from Derrick.
MOTION By Williams
The PZC should table further discussion of
the DeMontreville Highlands Plat until the
next meeting on June 10 and request Allied
Properties to file a plan unit development
request and the PZC would like a report from
the City Engineer and recommendations from the
Valley Branch Water Shed District as to addi-
tional run-off and drainage problems.
SECOND by Armstrong
VOTE All in favor
Sovereign will contact the Valley Branch Water
Shed District for the next meeting.
Bruce Foltz presented the Eden Park Plat to the
PZC. Martin Ziebell the Washington County Soil
Conservationist will do a plan on soil erosion
and sedimentation during and after construction.
Foltz requested approval of the plat subject to
conditions that the PZC might set. the plat has
been revised to show possible flood elevation at
892 feet. The Valley Branch Water Shed District
elevation is 888 and the City Engineer's
is 891 feet. The City Engineer's comments were
discussed point by point:
1. Foltz recognizes the concern over cutting
of trees but an owner has the right to cut
trees and only those trees which absolutely
have to be cut will be destroyed. Foltz stated
that they want to sell the lots and tearing
all the trees down would not facilitate selling
the lots.
2. Foltz stated that the gas line would not be
exposed as the engineer's letter indicates,(
MINUTES OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING May 27, 1975
EDEN PARK
PLAT
(Cont.)
3. The City ordinance is 60 feet on cul-de-sac and
Foltz said he would comply.
4. This point has been complied with.
5. Stump clearing and removal will be done as
requested.
6. Foltz indicated that the developer is willing to
consider a cash payment instead of park dedication
or some percentage agreement based on the amount
of land presently dedicated. He could put a
restrictive covenant on the deeds to prevent prob-
lems concerning access to the slew. Johnson and
Williams indicated that the lot line should go
to the water line with covenants. The City should
not be involved with ownership of lake shore.
This would be the same type of problem that was
experienced on Lake DeMontreville.
7. There will be a six foot drainage and utility
easements on all side lines and 12 feet on back
lot lines. If necessary this can be made wider.
8. Sanitary sewer easements can be arranged for.
9. On Block 1, Lot 7, the Gas Company will release
their easement to 66 feet and this would give
a total of 83 feet for building area when
released. The other lots will be taken care of
by a release of easement. There may be problems
with block 2, lot 23.
10. Block 1, Lot 3 will be on 20 feet of fill.
The grade could be changed to the street or the
house could be built back lot with the driveway
to it. Foltz was asked to put in proposed house
locations. He indicated he would talk to the
owner Paul Emmerson. He stated that the grading
plan would show that there is a buildable lot.
11. The slope of lots in relation to street grade
and home floor was discussed as to the lots
in question and Foltz indicated the grading
plan would properly solve the problem.
12. Percolation tests will be made.
13. The letter from Don Rgleigh item 4 states
that the five year requirement for sewering
is not a legal requirement of the City of
Lake Elmo.
MINUTES OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING May 27, 1975
EDEN PARK Johnson questioned feasibility of spot development
PLAT and at what point we should begin to say no to
(Cont.) developers. As to sewer, if the school is sewered
to Cimarron, then only 80% of the old village could
be sewered by the Cimarron Plant. Putting a larger
number of houses in the area ofthe Eden Park Plat
will only complicate this problem. There is alto
the question of dedication of park land. Is this
sufficient, should other lands be developed or should
a cash settlement be made?
MOTION By Williams
The proposed Eden Park Plan question should be tabled
until the next PZC meeting of June 10.
SECOND Novak
VOTE In favor: Johnson, Williams, Novak, Sovereign
and Armstrong; Opposed: Dreher
MOTION CARRIED
RUTH's 1st This plat had previously been approved by the Planning
ADDITION and Zoning Commission last year, The proper signa-
PLAT tures were never placed on the plat documents. The
plat was briefly discussed and the proper signatures
added to indicate the prior approval.,
CHAIRMAN Chairman Johnson informed the PZC that on Friday,
May 30, at 3:00 p.m. their will be a meeting in
Ways Control Commission's Office in St. Paul concerning
the Lake Elmo Sewers.
ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 12:30 a.m. on May 28.
THE NEXT SCHEDULED MEETING IS TUESDAY, JUNE 10, 1975 at 7:30 P.M.
Respectfully Submitted,
Thomas G. Armstrong
Secretary
8896 Lake Jane Trail
Lake Elmo
Minnesota 55042
May 16, 1975
Mr. Roger Derrick
400 Shaelard Plaza
Suite 227
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55426
Dear Mr. Derrick:
My compliments on your presentation at the recent Hearing before
the Lake Elmo Planning and Zoning Commission (PZC), May 13. Your
presentation was very informative and obviously well -prepared.
After the Hearing, the PZC briefly discussed the information
presented. Concern was expressed over the impact that a
subdivision of this magnitude would have on the City of Lake Elmo.
It was felt that careful review was needed before making a
recommendation to the Lake Elmo Council. The PZC also felt that
it would be desirable to have the revision of our Land Use Plan
completed before making a recommendation.
A motion was made by Bill Lundquist and approved unanimously by
the PZC that I write you this letter to request a postponement of
your applications for rezoning and subdivision until the PZC had
established an updated Comprehensive Plan for the City. I
respectfully request that you consider and accept said postponement.
A postponement until September, 1975 should allow time to at least
complete a rough draft of the Plan.
Mr. Roger Derrick
-2- May 16, 1975
Also, we should have an updated City road plan and 3M's development
plans by September. This will allow the City and your Corporation
to develop the optimum plan for this area.
Your cooperation and assistance in this matter will be greatly
appreciated.
Very truly yours,
Richard E. Johnson
P.S.
I would like a clarification of the proper title and address of
your Corporation. As it stands now, I have the following in my
records:
1. Allied Properties, Incorporated
1616 Park Avenue South
Minneapolis, Minnesota
2. Derrick Company
Wayzata Blvd. at Hwy 16
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55426
3. Roger Derrick
4826 Chicago Avenue South
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417
* 4. Roger Derrick
400 Shaelard Plaza
Suite 227
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55426
* Obtained from your answering service.
THE DERRICK COMPANY
Shelard Plaza South
Wayzata Blvd. at Highway 18
Minneapolis, Minnesota 56426
Telephone: (612) 548-2276
May 27, 1975
MR. RICHARD E. JOHNSON
LAKE ELMO PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
8896 Lake Jane Trail
Lake Elmo, Minnesota 55042
RE: YOUR LETTER OF MAY 16, 1975
PROFESSIONAL
LAND BROKERS
Thank you for your compliment on our presentation at your recent Lake
Elmo Planning & Zoning Commission hearing.
COMMERCIAL
INDUSTRIAL
RESIDENTIAL
MULTIPLE
FARMS
It was a blow to hear that the PZC was asking for a delay of our
application until September. I respectively ask the PZC to reconsider
this position. This property will be developed some day. Large lot
development is feasible now. The type of Buyer that will be purchasing
these large homesites could handle water and sewer assessments in the
future. But, if water and sewer is eminent at the time development occurs,
a developer would be forced to plat substantially smaller lots. Even if
lots were kept at acre, which is considered large in most communities,
the number of people in the same area would almost triple. (245 families
Vs. 93 families).
Our plan isn't something new : We've taken plenty of time and talked to
a lot of people, to come up with a plan that is not only economically sound
but also a plan that would concur with the thinking of the area residents and
community leaders.
Attached is a short chronology of steps that were taken to assure a well
planned development. I purposely excluded internal meetings and conversations.
We've pursued a concept that would be an asset to the neighborhood. We've
tried to understand the area's needs and adjust our plans to the response of
those we've met with. As you can see by the chronology, this has taken time,
but we feel it has been worth it. The development plan that has evolved demon-
strates that fact. I hope we havn't been led down the garden path. If the
community wants large lot residential on this property, now is the time for
action on your part. A postponement until September really means a loss of an
entire selling season foi us.
ctfully ywurs
ivy
THE DERRICK LAND COMPANY
ROGER D. DERRICK, PRESIDENT
CHRONOLOGY OF MEETINGS AND ACTIVITIES CONCERNING THE
"CROMBIE PROPERTY" (290 ACRES, LAKE ELMO, MINNESOTA)
July 2, 1973. Retained Bordner Consultants (Professional Land Planners)
to do study to determine best land use for entire property.
July 11, 1973. Talked with Mayor Kelly Brookman about land use suggestions
he might have. We discussed possible golf course on part of North portion.
He said South could be developed into one acre lots without water & sewer
under the Village P.U.D. ordinance.
July 11, 1973. Spoke to councilman Bob Watson (assigned to the project)
regarding land use. Said everyone he'd talked to in the area favored
large lot (one + acres) residential on South part of property. Doesn't
know about North portion. Want,§ to see Bordner's plans when they're completed.
Picked up from his home lot layout he had from previous owner. He thought it
might help us.
November 27, 1973. Received comprehensive written study from Bordner
outlining their recommendations.
January 16, 1974. Dinner meeting to present study findings to Councilman
Bob Watson. A planning commission member was also present. They had no
immediate comment on the proposal for the North portion. They said they
favored the South proposal (one + acres). They wanted to see more development
detail and discuss with other members.
January 20, 1974. Accurate topography map of the area was unavailable. Had
Mark Hurd, Inc. make up one for us. (Took three months to complete)
April 8, 1974. Engaged Robert M. Gottsacker & Associates (Engineer) to do road
and engineering plan based on existing land contours shown on topo, for presentation
to planning commission.
August 26, 1974. Luncheon meeting with Mayor Maynard Eder and Councilman Lloyd
Shervheim. Presented land use proposals. Advised us to go before full planning
commission.
October 28, 1974. Presented Concept Plan to planning commission. We were told
Village had hired Midwest Planning to do the land use plan for the entire village,
therefore we were to have a meeting with Midwest Planning to get their reaction to
our plan and see if it fit in with their overall land use plan.
November 1, 1974. Met with Planner at Midwest Planning (at our expense).
Barbara Lukermann said the entire Village Plan was not ready, but that the
portion oar land fell into was ready. She showed the South portion of our
property to be 12,000 Square Foot Lots (34 lots to the acre), with water
and sewer on South portion. The North portion she showed as large lot
residential.
November 12, 1974. Appeared before planning commission. Told about meeting
with Midwest Planning and also resubmitted our land use plan. We were told:
1). Temporarily shelve our plan for North portion. (Varmous high density uses)
2). Dthsregard what Midwest Planning plans for the South portion (12,000 square
foot lots)
3). Liked our concept for the South portion. (1-2 acre residential homesites)
4). Sent us on to the Council.
November 19, 1974. Appeared before Council. Recapped prior events concerning
our proposal for south portion of property. Presented our plan (1-2 acre
homesites). Received conceptual approval. Directed to proceed with preliminary
plat.
December 5, 1974. Trip to fish hatchery to discuss acquisition of Pond.
Had variouostdalrks with home owners, park representatives, Department of Natural
Resources representatives, etc.
January 15, 1975.
Discussed proposed
He said they would
Met with representative of Village Park Board, Jess
park size and boundaries.
do the same.
He asked us to
April 10, 1975. Submitted Preliminary Plat to Village Clerk
obtain an
Mottaz.
appraisal.
in time to be heard
at the April 28, 1975 planning commission meeting. City attorney asked us to delay
until May 13, 1975 meeting.
May 2, 1975. Met with leaders of Tri-Lake association at luncheon meeting.
Presented them with our development proposal for South portion of property.
They seemed to favor the proposal.
May 13, 1975. Fbrmally asked planning commission for preliminary approval
for plat. Received favorable comments from audience. Tabled until next meeting
to allow planning commission members to discuss among themselves and with other
interested parties.
THE DERRICK COMPANY
Sh terd Plaza South
Wayzata Blvd. at Highway 18
Minneapolis, Minnesota 56426
Telephone: (812) 548-2278
May 28, 1975
RICHARD E. JOHNSON
LAKE ELMO PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
8896 Lake Jane Trail
Lake Elmo, Minnesota 55042
Dear Mr. Johnson,
As requested, here are the people who have a financial interest in
the "Crombie Property".
1). Veronica M. Crombie, Fee Owner
2). Allied Properties, Inc. Contract Purchaser
Jerry Rosenzweig, President
3). Allied Properties, Inc. is the General Partner in a Limited
Partnership comprised of the following limited partners:
a). The Derrick Company
b). Lake Elmo Investment Co.
Lee Sudit
Harvey Rochlin
Joseph Yablonsky
c). Mrs. Carl Christensen
d). Mrs. Edward Derrick
e). Warren Laughinghouse
PROFESSIONAL
LAND BROKERS
COMMERCIAL
INDUSTRIAL
RESIDENTIAL
MULTIPLE
FARMS
This information is for official use only and should not be publicized
unnecessarily.
Sincerely you
(T
. DERRICK
RDD/mak