HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-23-81 PZMLAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL MEETING, MARCH 23, 1981
Chairman Michels called the meeting to order at 7:40 p.m.
ROLL CALL: Gifford, Prince, Halden, Lundquist, Dreher, Crombie,
and Lyall (7:45)
Councillors: Morgan, Mottaz, Novak, Fraser, and Eder (8:00)
MINUTES: March 9, 1981 - Gifford moved, seconded by Dreher, to
approve the minutes of March 9, 1981. Motion carried 8-0.
CROMBIE FINAL PLAT: Administrator whittaker reported that the
final plat is in agreement with the Preliminary Plat, the
drainage easement is shown, as requested; and that the
Park Commission wants a cash. donation. This amount will
be computed for the April 7 Council meeting. No final approval
has been received from Valley Branch.
The Commission asked for a clarification of the notation for
Outlot B. Bruce Folz will address this later in the meeting.
Crombie said the City Attorney is drafting a document that will
tie the outlots to the lots.
Lundquist moved, seconded by Dreher, to recommend approval of
the Final Plat for F. J. Crombie Estates, 1st Addition, subject
to Valley Branch approval and a park donation agreement.
Motion carried 7-0-1. Crombie abstained..
ROSSOW REZONING - PUBLIC HEARING:
Mr. Rossow is requesting to rezone 3'lots that' border Highway 36
359' back from the highway to General Business.
Chairman Michels opened the hearing at 7:47 p.m.
Mr. Rossow was unable to attend the hearing. He will attend
the April 13 meeting. Site and building plans have not yet
been submitted.
Tim Dwyer, owner of the home on Lot 1, Block 1, surrounded
by the Rossow property, asked that his property be included
in the request. He did not sign the rezoning application, but
the property is included with the Rossow request.
AUDIENCE COMMENTS:
Mrs. Richard Bergman - asked the status of the two driveways
that exit onto Highway 36.
Mr. Dwyer said eventually his driveway would be closed off
when the road into Tri-Star is complete.
Mrs. Bergman asked what the time limit is on the current plat.
Whittaker said there was no limit when this was platted. The
City has been waiting for over a year for Rossow to complete
the developers agreement and final plat. When this is finished
the road will have to be paved.
3 -3
CCKi-f3W--Q4
.37.31/ &WO gild
- / 3-e6 d;" 0,71-4 .Z.:Oxi77-e 11-r
,N 33 laitrivA aule
7Ze ?z,iturtZ,
7'c-5e/a 5Ve /44/;t
JOINT MEETING, MARCH 23, 1981 -2-
Richard Bergman - asked that the area proposed be identified.
All the highway frontage along 36 is proposed to be rezoned
back into the powerline easement. Mr. Bergman had no objection
to this rezoning, providedthe entire 36 Corridor is restudied.
He opposed piece -meal zoning.
Bob Ziertman - submitted a similar proposal two years ago that
was denied. He would like to see the entire corridor rezoned
General Business.
Mr. Bergman asked what the proposed use for the property- south
of the powerline is.
Mr. Rossow will have to address this question.
Mrs. Bergman asked the difference between business and commercial
uses.
The Administrator said General Business encompasses commercial
uses.
None of the neighbors objected to business use along the 36
corridor. They aenera.11y felt the City should consider business
along this corridor because of commercial pressure from Stillwater
and North St. Paul„
The audience and Planning Commission discussed the procedures
for reviewing proposed uses.
Mayor Eder said that the Council is not interested in entertaining
any change along Highway 36 until the entire area is reviewed.
Until that time, the current zoning stands. The Council's
position is that no request will be considered independent of
a complete study that would change the Comp Plan. He also stated,
that the Council instructed Mr. Rossow to remove the building
presently under construction, and no rezoning will be
considered until this directive is complied with. This building
was started without a permit and before the application for
rezoning.
Michels stated that the Commission was not involved with the
Council's action and are only following procedure by holding
the hearing. He said the Planning Commission agrees that the
entire corridor should be reviewed before considering individual
requests.
Lyall asked why the corridor was not planned GB when the Comp
Plan was developed.
Michels said, at the time, it was felt there would not be a
demand for GB along 36 before 1990.
Whittaker explained some of the considerations discussed during
the Comp Plan hearings such as the fact there are adequate
commercial areas in the City now; that this area is the farthest
away from any City services; that this area is surrounded by
Rural Residential and Agriculture;' and there is not an adequate
highway system to serve commercial;
JOINT MEETING, MARCH 23, 1981 -3-
Whittaker stated that the only major collector street is
County 17; and, that Grant Townshiprfdicated they do not
intend to permit additional commercial across the highway.
An additional constraint is the significant ponding areas
that would inhibit constructing a frontage road.
The PZC did consider an alternative plan that provided com-
mercial use where it was practical. The Council decided
against this proposal.
Mrs. Ziertman - said that farming in this area is becoming
obsolete; and asked what alternatives there are until the
City decides to amend the zoning and permit business. She
does not think the City's position is fair.
Whittaker said the Council, at that time, considered RR
a reasonable and desirable use that would not unduly strain
the present public systems, require new roads and provides
the property owners a reasonable use of their land. The
Council felt it .premature to develop Commercial along the
36 Corridor.
Whittaker outlined the suggestion for a Rural Commercial Zone
that would serve as a intern use until there was a change
in zoning for this area.
Michels asked for a motion to continue the public hearing.
Prince moved, seconded by Gifford, to continue the public
hearing for rezoning the property of Lee Rossow until
April 13, 1981, at 7:45 p.m. Motion carried 8-0.
Administrator Whittaker advised Mr. Dwyer to sign the Rossow
application if he wants his property included in the rezoning
request.
FINAL PLAT - F. J. CROMBIE ESTATES: Bruce Folz clarified the
notation for Outlot A. He explained that when the 33 ft
road right-of-way easement is in the water the developer does
not convey any riparian rights to the public for access to
the lake. This does not apply to Outlot B because the
r-o-w is above the high water.
Folz further explained that if the water comes up within
the 33 ft. the public does not have a legal right to access
because the road dedication is for road purposes only. The
property owner pays taxes to the center of the road on both
sides.
DISCUSSION:
A. Parking Lot Standards - The Brookfield developers suggested
the City review the current parking lot standards. The
Administrator surveyed surrounding communities and determined
Lake Elmo's standards are in line with these communities. The
current standard was taken from the Washington County standard.
The Council and Planning Commission agreed that there was no
need to amend the current policy. Currently, the Council and
the Zoning Administrator have the authority to negotiate parking
sizes, if necessary,
suite of
each
1 parking stall for each
?00 square feet of gross floor
area --if basement or additional
floors are used for office space
it is 1 parking stall for each
300 square feet in excess of
L000 square feet
space
s...parate
Standards for parking lots and parking space:
City of Woodbury-- stalls 9 ft. wide --20' in length --
turning and maneuvering area 300sq ft.
11 space for each 200 sq. feet Isle 25 ft. in width
)f gross floor area --excluding
bathrooms, utilities rooms,etc. Require concrete curb and gutter in Commercial
and Industrial areas
Multi -family --require concrete curbs
City of Maplewood--10'x20' parking stall (90 degree stall)
24 foot drive isle leading to stall
diagonal parking still 10'x20' but driving
could be narrowed down.
isle
12 or less parking stalls must have concrete curb
Minimum setbacks--front--15 ft. from lot line
side and rear--5ft. from lot line
City of Stillwater-- 45 and 30 degree parking
stalls- 18 feet long, 10 feet wide(less
for each
office or
)ffices plus 1 for
4 employees
CITY of Cottage Grove -- will send copy of their ordinance
for 45 degree)
20 feet
for turning and maneuvering
9' x 20' parking stall
total 30 sq. ft. stall and maneuvering area - amounts to 24'
aisles.
one space per every 150 of floor area for first 6,000 sq. ft.
one space per every 400 sq. ft. of floor area thereafter
JOINT MEETING, MARCH 23, 1981 -4-
B. Junk Cars - The Planning Commission asked to what extent
the City enforces the clean-up of debris, junk and junk cars
on private property. Presently, the Building Inspector
only enforces the code when a complaint is received. The
Council and Commission agreed that when a violation is obvious
the Building Inspector should enforce the Code whether or
not a complaint has been received.
Novak asked the Administrator to verify what the State is doing
along County 5, south of Sunfish Lake and if the necessary
shoreland permits have been secured.
Fraser asked who is responsible for the "car on the cable"
at the south end of Lake Elmo. Whittaker said the Sheriff's
Department is using the car in a contest. Fraser opposes
using the lake for this type of activity.
C. Ag Buildings - Limit On Number and Size - The current
ordinance does not limit the size or number of buildings in
an Ag zone. It was agreed that definitions of agriculture,
horticulture, etc. need to be clarified. The members also
agreed that ag buildings should be retained on an ag sized
parcel (40A) if a farm is subdivided.
Crombie feels a major problem is the lack of restrictions
on buildings on 20 acres or more. Whittaker said State Law
prohibits the City from requiring building permits for Ag
buildings.
Eder suggested the Council and PZC review the Ag Planning Hand-
book for suggested wording.
D. Ag Zoning - The group discussed the definition of Ag;
permitted uses under a CUP; and permitted uses that would
better be served in a Light Industrial zone. They discussed
if ` limitations should be imposed on the sale of products
in Ag and the nature of the products.
Michels feels until there is a problem that the present regulations
should remain unchanged. He opposes rules for the sake of rules.
Crombie does not believe business should be permitted in Ag
zones, where code requirements cannot be enforced, when
zoned commercial areas must conform to all City standards.
He cited examples of how CUP in ag can get out of hand.
True Ag is not a problem; but if an Ag zone is permitted a use
that is not truly Ag, the City loses control of the use, the
structures and is hard-pressed to stop the operation.
The Council and Commission will review the Ag Preserve literature
and the Ag Planning Handbook to better define Ag uses.
E. Highway Plans - The Administrator reviewed the roads
called for in the Comp Plan.
Crombie proposed that that section of DeMontreville Tr. east
of Highlands Trail be abandoned and that Highlands Trail be
designated as County 13,
JOINT MEETING, MARCH 23, 1981 -5-
F. Rural Commercial - This was proposed by the PZC as a
holding zone that would permit low density commercial
development, in areas such as Highway 36, as an alternative
to rural residential.
Prince asked where truck and equipment storage (eg E-H Earth -
movers) would be permitted in the City. Whittaker said this
would fall under Light Industrial. Prince said, currently,
LI is not provided in the City.
Fraser does not think the City should feel obligated to
provide areas for all possible uses. Some areas that exist
today may not possibly be provided for in the future.
Prince suggested considering some LI areas, noting there is
alot of vacant land within the City.
Whittaker said a LI area is planned for post 1990.
Crombie opposes rural commercial/stating this would create
hodge-podge development with no plan. Commercial endeavors
should be developed where it is designated. The City has
a plan and it should be adhered to.
Michels stated that the question raised by the PZC was if
there was a need for another zone, rather than Ag, this would
provide a use for larger parcels until such time as a business
zone was designated.
Novak asked if Lake Elmo ever wants the 36 Corridor to be
Commercial. She does not feel every highway should be a
commerical corridor. Homes can be constructed, such as was
done in DeMontreville Highlands, as an alternative. Several
members agreed with this position.
Michels said this was suggested only because this was the
attitude 1 1/2 years ago.
Eder said the key to keeping the Comp Plan on track is through
the property owners. The City should meet with them, outline
their options, and encourage them to work and develop within
the guidelines of the plan.
G. Dayton -Hudson - The Council reviewed the Planning Commission's
recommendations to Dayton Hudson, and agreed with their
decisions.
Eder suggested working with the residents in Section 32 to
promote development is that area.
Eder reviewed the time -table for the Regional Park,
ADJOURNMENT: 10:30 p.m.
CITY 0r
LAKE
�ELMO
City of Lake Elmo
777-5510
P. 0. Box J / Thirty-third and Laverne Avenue / Lake Elmo, Minnesota 55042
AGENDA
JOINT MEETING
Lake Elmo City Council
Lake Elmo Planning Commission
March 23, 1981
7:30 P.M. ----Meeting convenes
--Minutes, March 9 meeting
7:45 P.M. ----Public Hearing--Rossow request
to rezone part of proposed
Tri-Star Addition from RR to GB
8:15 P.M. ----Final Plat--F. J. Crombie Estates
8:30 P.M. ----Discussion:
A. Parking Lot Standards
B. Policy, Junk & Junk Cars
C. AG Buildings, limit number
and/or size
D. Clarify Ag Zoning
E. Highway Plan and MSA Projects
F. Rural Commercial
G. Dayton -Hudson
10:30 P.M. Adjourn