HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-22-81 PZM? CITY OF
LAKE
ELMO •
City of Lake Elmo
777-5510
„r P. 0. Box J / Thirty-third and Laverne Avenue / Lake Elmo, Minnesota 55042
AGENDA
PLANNING COMMISSION
June 22, 1981
7:30 P.M.---- Meeting convenes
- Minutes, May 11, June 8
7:45 P.M.--- Reconvene hearing on Pepin Rezoning
(from R1 to I)
8:00 P.M.--- Public Hearing --CUP Modification;
Oakdale Gun Club
8:30 P.M.--- Public Hearing: CUP for Advertising
Sign near Vali-Hi Drive -In
Farview Sign Co.
2829 University Ave., Mpls, Minn.
8:45 P.M.--- Review Don Klatke request of Minor
Subdivision, Lot 3, Huppert Add.
3663 Jamaca Ave. No.
9:00 P.M.--- Shoreland Ordinance Amendment -
Building elevation, Sunfish Lake
- Afton Comp. Plan --Recommendations
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION, JUNE 22, 1981
Chairman Michels called the meeting to order. at 7:39 p.m.
ROLL CALL: Mazzara, Forsblad, Moe, Gifford, Lyall, Halden.
Lundquist and Dreher arrived at 7:42 p.m. Crombie
and Prince were absent. Administrator Whittaker
was also present.
MINUTES:
May 11, 1981 -
Gifford moved, seconded by Michels, to approve the
minutes of the May 11, 1981 meeting. Motion carried
7-0.
PEPIN REZONING: Michels convened the public hearing at 7:42 p.m.
Jim Bjorkman, a neighbor, asked what the intent of
the Commnission was. Whittaker explained that the City
had inadvertantly put this land at the corner of
Laverne and Highway 5 into R1 when the Zoning Map
was revised. He said the property is being used for
light industry; and, under the present Ordinance and
policies, it should be zoned I (Industrial Park),
should be zoned for use.
There were no other public comments; so Michels closed
the public hearing at 7:48 p.m. Dreher moved, seconded
by Moe, to recommend the rezoning of Lot 1-4 Block 1,
Cloverdale Add. from R1 to I, to the City Council.
Motion carried 9-0.
SUNFISH LAKE BUILDING ELEVATION: Whittaker explained that the
culvert under Highway 5 would not serve as an outlet
to Sunfish lake; so, that elevation should not be
condidered in determining the building elevation.
The hearing had been held at the 1st Commission meeting.
Michels moved, seconded by Mazzara, to recommend the
adoption of an amendment to the Zoning Ordinance
raising the building elevation of Sunfish Lake to 903,
msld, to the City Council, as recommended by the City
Engineer and the Valley Branch Watershed district.
Motion carried 9-0.
AFTON COMPREHENSIVE PLAN: The Commission discussed the plan
briefly; and decided it had no recommendation except
that the plan does not appear to be in conflict with
Lake Elmo plans.
OAKDALE GUN CLUB: Michels convened the hearing at 8:03 p.m. Dr.
Jack Reece explained the plans for expansion of the
Gun Club to the Commission and public. He said the
Club has over 300 members, over 7000 individuals
used it last year, and that the club has served the
Washington County Sheriff's Dept. and even some
National Guard units on occassion.
Dr. Reece said the Club wants to expand their silhouette
range to better accomodate tournaments; and provide
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION, JUNE 22, 1981 -2-
for free shooting during tournaments. He said the
Club intends to construct the new range on the western
edge of the property to improve safety and move the
center activity away from the developing property on the
east.
Michels asked if there is a clubhouse on the property
and if there is adequate parking. Dr. Reece said there
is no clubhouse; and that they can park 50 cars near
the fence and 50 more farther back.
Al Borsheim, Club member, presented the construction
plans to the Commission. The new range would be about
100 feet from the west property line. The present range
is about 300 feet from the east line. The range would
have a 30 foot natural berm to the north, 15-20 foot
berms between ranges, with pines planted on top. The
entire Club area is fenced off with signs indicating
it as a target range.
Jim Flanery asked how many tournaments there are each
season. Chuck Howard said there are 7 silhouette
tournaments, with the State Championship, over 13 days.
David Nelson, owner of some property to the east of the
Club, said there is lots of noise, now, with the range
almost 500 feet from his property. The Club members
said the improvements will cut down on noise. Borsheim
said Club members said the Club, limits -use of the Club
to members only before June. It is closed to public
at 4:30 p.m. every day; and that members must stop
shooting one half hour before sunset, even though the
permit allows them to shoot until sunset. He also
said the new range will be farther west, deeper in the
ground, and that the club will continue to plant trees
around the berms to reduce noise. Glen Hagamannsaid
said the club has hired a sound engineer to measure
the noise and conoider ways to redude it.
Kurt Ericsmoen, Regional officer of the National Rifle
Association (NRA), said the noise from this gun range
will be softer than conversation at a range of one-fourth
mile; and that OSHA has no noise standards for impact
noise, only for constant noise.
In response to questions, Dr. Reece told the Commission
that the Club is operated from 8:00 a.m. until one half
hour before sunset; 200 gun safety youngsters and 400
Ramsey County Sheriff Deputies used the range last year;
that they have never had an accident at the Club or from
a stray bullet outside the Club. He expressed his belief
that this Club is very safe; but, that no one could
assure the Commission that no one will ever get hurt at
or near the club. He said that they would close the
east range if any homes were built in direct line of
sight of any homes were built in direct line of sight of
any range.
Mike Grupa, Minnesota Department of Natural Resources
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, JUNE 22. 1981 -3-
1
* Glen Hagaman
Amended 7/27/81
(DNR) said he felt the range was as safe as any in the
State. He said the Club has excellent range officers;
and that is far safer to have people practice at the
range than out in the fields around town. In 27 years
of Firearm safety classes, there has never been a
fatality. He went on to say that Oakdale is one of the
few clubs in the Metropolitan area; and that they have
been a leader in gun safety.
Harvey Allen asked if the club saw a need for any
safety improvements. *Cerny Hagaman asked if more -pre-
cautions were intended for the Bast side of the property.
Allen said he would like the range to stay at this lo-
cation for a long time; and that the new facilities
may be too close to the property line. He would like to
see a large buffer around the ranges so that they will
not be forced out by concerned neighbors and noise. Any
improvements should include the best sound protection
and safety for the present range. Allen also asked if
the range meets NRA standards.
Mr. Ericsmoen, later, responded that it is better de-
signed than most ranges he has seen; but, was reluctant
to let the NRA in on any liability they might incur by
writing a letter, which would certify the range meets
NRA standards.
Jerry Marsh, building and groundskeeper for the Club,
said he was more concerned about the neighbors and
noise than they are; and that he works constantly to
improve the safety and reduce the noise.
Laura Fraser expressed her opposition to expansion of
the Club. She said the noise is already heard north
of Lake Elmo lake; and illustrated her point with a
map showing range of areas that now hear the noise. She
said the Club has become a 3 season club with shooting
starting at 8:30 to 9:00 a.m. and continuing until near
dark almost every weekend. She said it is not the time
to invest in expansion; it is time to look for a more
rural area to put the club.
Gene Peltier said he had lived in the area for 33 years;
and the club did not bother him. He said they have
done a good job of controlling the noise. He hears more
noise on the highway.
Dorothy Lyons, property owner to the west, said the
club has done a good job; and that the club is an im-
provement over the conditions in the City before it
went in. She said having a place to practice is better
than people practicing on private property all over town.
Mr. Nelson, again, asked how the Commission could con-
sider permitting expansion at this location, with the
area to the east planned Rl.
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 22, 1981 -4-
i
Michels closed the hearing at 9:15 p.m. The Commission
took a five minute break.
Dreher said he wants the results of noise tests before
considering the expansion. Reece said they would not
be ready until Fall. Mazzara asked if noise could be
eliminatedC Reece said it would be prohibitively ex,
pensive, requiring total cover over the firing line.
Reece did say more trees will help muffle noise.
Lyall said he could not understand why a private club
is used by the National Guard when the government has
ample facilities for their needs. He said that does
not fit into the sport shooting catagory. Michels asked
how often noise is monitored and what improvements have
been made to mitigate it. Reece said it was checked 3
years ago; and that they have been working on noise ever
since.
City Attorney Ray Marshall said the Commission should
consider the current expansion in light of how problems
with the present use have been mitigated. He said no
use can be carried out so as to create a public nuisance
or if it results in a decline in adjacent property values,
regardless of whether or not it preceded neighboring
uses. However, he said neighbors objections alone could
not be a reason for denial. The City has to have legally
sufficient reasons to deny the application. He suggested
that the Commission consider if they would have denied
a permit for renewal if the Club did not want td expand.
He said the Commission should consider if the expansion
will change the conditions under which the Club has been
permitted; and, if so, does the plan for improvements
adequately solve the problems created by expansion.
In response to a question by Gifford, Marshall said,
that while the City can always be sued, he did not think
the City would be held negligent for approving the permit.
Reece said the Club has $1,000,000 in liability insurance.
Michels asked for a motion on the request. He said, in
his opinion, the Club had done a good job in the past,
would like to see membership limited to 300 members,
would like a limit on the number of tournaments, and
would like parking improved, if necessary. Mazzara wants
every assurance that the Club will keep noise down. Reece
said they will; and went on tb say the Club can't handle
many more tournaments as all members are volunteers; and
tournaments take a lot of time and work.
The Commission, being far behind the Agenda, postponed
action on this matter until 10:30 p.m.
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION, JUNE 22, 1981 -5-
FAIRVIEW SIGN COMPANY, CUP FOR ADVERTISING SIGN: Robert Hoster of
Fairview, explained his request for a billboard near the
Valley -Hi Drive-in Theater. The sign will be 10X20 feet
on 100 foot of frontage along Hwy. 12. Whittaker said
the Commission should have a letter from the owner of the
property agreeing to the sign. He also said the sign is
less than 1,500 feet from the closest advertising signs
in each direction. The Ordinance calls for 3,000 foot
minimum between signs.
Hoster said the sign will be of a new design: single
post with new lighting that directs most of the light
at the sign.
Michels closed the hearing at 10:05 p.m. Dreher moved,
seconded by Forsblad, to deny the request for a Variance
from the Sign Ordinance and a Conditional Use Permit for
an advertising sign near the Vali-Hi Drive-in. Motion
failed with Dreher, Forsblad, Lyall, and Michels voting
for the motion.
Gifford moved, seconded by Mazzara, to recommend the
City Council grant the Conditional Use Permit with a
Variance from the minimum distant between advertising
signs, subject to the company agreeing that it will re-
move the sign when asked to by the Minnesota Department
of Transportation. Motion carried 5-4, with Gifford,
Mazzara, Moe, Halden, and Lundquist voting for the motion.
KLATKE MINOR SUBDIVISION AND VARIANCES: Donald Klatke explained
that he had appeared before the Commission in 1979; and
that the Commission had recommended approval of the minor
subdivision of Lot 3, Huppert Add., if the new lot on
the east end was one and one-half acres and both lots
have two drainfiels sites.
Gary Paulsen, 3669 Jamaca Avenue, owner of Lot 2 Huppert
Add., explained that he shares the present driveway with
Mr. Klatke. He said he is concerned that expanding the
driveway will take out some of his landscaping; and that
he might have to pay for the construction or maintenance
of the improved driveway. Whittaker advised him that the
City has never required an, adjacent property owner to
share in the cost of construction for roads like this.
Paulsen said the road improvements might further complicate
water problems on the east side of his lot. His garden
is already often under water. Whittaker said the City
Engineer would consider this in designing the road; and
that the road need not extend to the east line of the lots;
but, could end at Klatke's second lot. Paulsen was also
concerned that part of the cul-de-dac for the driveway
would have to be on his property. Whittaker said it
could be entirely on Klatke's property; and that Paulsen
would probably not pay for that either.
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION, JUNE 22, 1981 -7-
2 The Club make every effort to reduce noises
and advise the City of all improvements to
abate noise; and,
3. The Club continue to meet all conditions of
their present permit.
Motion carried 9-0.
Whittaker announced that Brian Crombie expressed his
intent to resign from the Commission.
ADJOURNMENT: 11:15 p.m.
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CITY OF
`LAKE
jitELM 0
:
City of Lake Elmo
777-5510
P. O. Box J / Thirty-third and Laverne Avenue / Lake Elmo, Minnesota 55042
MEMO
TO: The Planning Commission
FR: Larry Whittaker
DT: June 19, 1981
RE: Planning Commission Agenda items
QUORUM: We did not have a quorum of Commission members at the last meeting,
even with alternates. We have barely had quorums for many meetings in the
past few months. We only need five members (of 11) for a quorum; so, I
think it's not unreasonable to expect a quorum at every meeting. To this end,
please call the office before the meeting (office hours $:00 —4:30) to let
us know if you can't make it. Then, if a quorum is doubtful, we can let
you know.
PEPIN REZONING: The hearing had to be continued because notices were not
sent to adjacent property owners early enough. We need a QUORUM to make
a recommendation to the Council.
OAKDALE GUN CLUB: The club would like to improve the silhouette range at
their target range on loth St. (west of Cimarron on the north side of 10th
St.) Several adjacent property owners asked if this is an appropriate use
next to an area planned residential. They did not want the Club to invest
in a new range if the development of adjacent property (in the very near future)
might require abandoning the range altogether. The Ordinance does provide
that permits for target ranges may be revoked if they become a hazard to public
health and safety.
The Planning Commission will be in the unhappy position of having to determine
if the present range -- and the addition — will be a nuisance to the neighbors.
I have invited the City Attorney to discuss the legal issues with respect
to revocation — or denial of a permit to expand.
ADVERTISING SIGN: The Ordinance permits "billboards" by CUP in the GB zone.
Bruce advises me that the sign meets all the requirements of the Sign Ordinance.
Unless you have some strong convictions about possible detriments to public
health, safety and welfare, I think the sign should be approved.
K{ATKE MINOR SUBDIVISION: Mr. Klatke applied for this Minor Subdivision over a
year ago. The Planning Commission reviewed the request and recommended approval.
(please see Dec. 10, 1979, PZC minutes). The recommendation went to the Council;
and Mayor Armstrong suggested that the Council grant the variances from lot
size &street offset if Klatke built a minimum public street (see Dec. 11 Council
minutes). The City Engineer, then, developed a recommendation on the "minimum"
MEMO, PZC
June 19, 1981
public street (see Feb. 11, 1980, letter from TKDA). Mr. Klatke never came
back to the Council; and, the Council never formally accepted the Engineer's
recommenation or Klatke's Minor Subdivision.
Mr. Klatke is now asking that the same subdivision be approved with a private
road. I thought sufficient time had passed that the Planning Commission and
his neighbors ought to have a chance to comment again. I think the key issue
is the private road, not only whether or not it should be private; but also
how long it should be, how wide, and if the City should require that the
right—of—way be dedicated.
SHORELAND AMENDMENT: The Commission could not act at the last meeting because
there was no QUORUM. The Commission asked for the outlet elevation of the
culvert under State Highway 5. Larry Bohrer will get that info. for me;
but, I should advise you that the the culvert drains from the south side to
the lake; it is not intended to be an outlet for Sunfish Lake; and, if the
water ever got high enough to flow uphill through the culvert, the land on the
other side would provide virtually no relief as it is a small area with no
outlet. In short, I think we will have to take the City Engineer's word for
the high flood elevation.
AFTON PLAN: The Commission could make no officialy recommenation on the plan;
so, I put it on the Agenda again.
PLEASE CALL IF YOU CANNOT ATTEND. WE NEED A QUORUM.