HomeMy WebLinkAbout04-12-82 PZMLAKE ELMQ PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 12, 1982
Chairman Michels called the meeting to order at 7:45 p.m.
Commissioners Present; Dreher, Mazarra, Prince, Nazarian, Peterson
Gifford and Lundquist. Absent, Lyall and Moe. Also present,
Administrator Whittaker
1. MINUTES: March 8, 1982
M/S/P Dreher/Nazarian to approve the minutes of March 8, 1982.
2; EVERETT BEAUBIEN - SIMPLE LOT DIVISION -
Mr, Beaubien is proposing to subdivide 2.972 acres off a 8.193 acre
parcel owned by his daughter. The 2 acre parcel is adjacent
to his homesite.
M/S/P Nazarian/Gifford to recommend approval of a Simple Lot
Division for Everette Beaubien to subdivide 2.972 acres off
from a 8.193 acre parcel owned by his daughter and adjacent to
his property.
3. ZONING AMENDMENT HEARING -
Chairman Michels opened the hearing at 8 P.M.
--Audience Comments -
--Whittaker - explained item 301.060 D,10.r., on renewal of CUP's.
This is just a change in the title -"Renewal" was not addressed
by title before,
301.060 D.10.c. - clarification of past and current City
policy.- If no questions, problems,complaints or changes
take place during the year the CUP can be renewed without a
public hearing. All permits are reviewed annually by the Council.
- -Prince - asked if there will be time for public input if there
is not a public hearing.
--Whittaker - yes, if there are complaints they should be registered
during the year so that questions raised can be handled at the
time of renewal. Questions can also be brought up at Council
meetings once a month during Public Inquiry.
--Dorothy Lyons - will 301.090'ban private roads?
--Whittaker - the ordinance already says there should not be any
private roads except in ag areas. Council has given variances
in areas where the road would not serve anyone beyond the house.
being served. Intent of the ordinance is to have access to a
public street - no point including private road. _
- -Dorothy Lyons - from a public point of view,' without the Code
books it is impossible to know what the changes refer to.
Disappointed in how this was handled. Many people concerned but
the City is not getting to them to let them know about the changes,
Disappointed in the amount of coverage in the Newsletter,
- -Whittaker - most of the changes are cosmetic; Anyone who desires
can come in and get a copy of the City Code or use the Office
copy. Most of these changes have no substance to them and have
minimal if any effect on residents - these changes are just
correcting a problem that has been discussed many times at Planning
Commission and City Council meetings. Several notices of this
meeting have been posted - one other person called for a copy of
of the amendments - does not think there is overwhelming concern.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 12, 1982 -2-
3. ZONING AMENDMENT HEARING - Continued -
--Dorothy Lyons - Citizens have questions on changes - talked
to several of them today. Several questions I can't even
answer even though have been involved. Many of the people
talked to today have no way of getting here. Very disappointed.
Would like to see the hearing continued and recommend something
more should be put in the Newsletter about the changes,
--Prince - feels she represents her area of town - talks to the
citizens around her - because there was a consensus of opinion
that these were not major changes, this is why there was not
a large amount of coverage in the Newsletter.
--Michels - these are not major changes - some is defining the way
the City is presently operating - clarifying it in order to keep
this operating in that mode. Does not see where we are trying
to ram something through - does not like this inferred.
What in particular are the people you talked to upset about?
--Dorothy Lyons - referred to the private road situation - Cannot
speak for these people. Talking about property owners living
on a lot, with house, garage & possibly an accessory building
and people who own larger parcels of ground - alot of this is
affecting them.
--Whittaker - as stated earlier, the ordinance already prohibits
private roads - this is just making the definition of lot frontage
agree with what the ordinance says in the text. No change in
substance - no change in what the ordinance permits. Just
clarifies that private roads are prohibited except by variance.
This was changed in 1979, when you (Dorothy Lyons) were on the
Council. All the changes are just recodifying the ordinance
and these are things considered poorly defined. Only policy
change is the one on accessory buildings and possibly the one
on ag buildings, although the Council has always ruled a fine
line on ag buildings - just defines it in the ordinance 80 that
people don't go through the process of making an applicantion
then having the Council turn them down.
--Gene Peltier - asked if the ordinance would prohibit building
a machine shed on his property.
--Whittaker - can build an ag building for agricultural use - not
for a commercial use. No limit on the number of ag buildings
in an ag zone on a parcel over 20 acres. The amendment does not
change this. Individual hearings have been held on Nominal 40's
and Truck Repair in Automobile Service Zone.
Chairman Michels closed the hearing at 8:30 p.m.
M/S/ Prince/Dreher to recommend approval of the amendments to
the Zoning Ordinance
Discussion:
--Whittaker - PZC should be aware that the Council may not approve
Sec. 301.130 C. 14.b - Size of Accessory Buildings on Parcels
over 10 acres. Recommended Commissioners attend the Council
meeting to defend this amendment if they hold a strong position
on it. This will go on the May 4 Council Agenda.
Motion carried 8-0.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 12, 1982 -3-
4. TOM ARMSTRONG - LARGE LOT SUBDIVISION AND REZONING -
Mr, Armstrong is proposing to purchase 14 acres adjacent to his
80 acres and rezone the parcel to Ag. The parcel has 367 ft.
of frontage on 15th Street and is 1308 ft. deep, He presented
a letter from Ralph and Helen Pierre, adjacent property owners,
approving the subdivision and rezoning.
M/S/P Nazarian/Dreher to recommend approval of a large lot subdivision
(14 acres of parcel 37028-2650) for Thomas Armstrong with a
rezoning of same to Agriculture, contingent upon finalization of
the sale of said property.
This will be placed on the April 20 Council Agenda.
5. EUGENE STRUM - SIMPLE LOT DIVISION -
Mr. Strum is proposing to subdivide Lot 13, Block 3, Demontreville
Highlands 6th Addition into three parcels and served by a private
road. A perc test was done for a single residence. The lot
contains 4,58 acres, of which 3,66 acres are exclusive of drainage
easements. The City Engineer reviewed the request. His proposal
for a 60 ft. public road with cul-de-sac would not permit enough
land area to subdivide three lots. Strums are proposing a
30'wide right-of-way with 20' of paved area.
--Whittaker - Council has required a 60' right-of-way in the past
so that the potential in there for a public road in the future
should the road not be maintained for emergency vehicles.
--Strum - owners of the two back lots could maintain the road.
The owner of the front lot, if he used the road, could assume
responsibility for his part of the maintenance.
--Dreher - all lots have to have 125 ft. of frontage on a public road.
Lots would be non -conforming with a public road. Questioned
the covenants on subdividing lots within the development.
--Mrs. Strum - Nothing in the covenants on subdivision of property.
- -Dreher - questioned the density of the plat and the reason for
some of the lots being larger.
- -Bruce Folz - was his understanding that the ordinance required
a minimum 75' setback from high water of a stream, lake, or wetland
for a drainfield. This lot was not further subdivided because
there would not have been sufficient area for drainfields
streets would have further decreased this area.
--Gifford - was consideration given to subdividing just two lots.
--Strum - yes, but 60ft. public street would still cause problems.
Wants to. build his house across the stream - cannot see what the
difference is if he has a long driveway or if someone uses a
part of it. How about a variance?
--Whittaker - Did not think a variance would be likely. Would
need a variance for lots that would be less than 1 1/2 A. Would
need a variance for a private road - this less likely because
a wide improved public street fronts this lot.
--Strum - asked about requesting a variance for a 30-35' easement
so 125' ft remained. As the lots sold the private road could
be developed - 20-25' blacktopped road.
- -Whittaker - because of snow plowing, sight distances, etc. City
Engineer has always recommended 60' right-of-way. Pavement
width may vary - minimum would be 28'. Problem created if
the homes have company,.- where do they park.
--Mrs. Strum - proposed two lots. One served off of Highlands
Trail with a long driveway to the back lot - the other lot
would front directly on Highlands Trail and also have access
from Highlands Tr4
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 12, 1982 -4-
5. STRUM - SIMPLE LOT DIVISION Continued -
- -Whittaker - Long driveway would still be considered a street,
Is it economicall feasible to pave 125' of street to serve
one home.
- -Prince - several lots in the City that have minimum frontage
on the street and are deep -
--Whittaker - this creates a number of tiny streets that someone
has to maintain - have to be maintained for emergency vehicles.
Makes for an inefficent expensive street system for the City to
maintain and police. Council has discuraged this, Should
not be necessary in a newly platted area.
--Strum - asked the opinion of the Commission on getting a variance
for three lots on a private road, 35' wide, with 28' of blacktop.
--Dreher - would be opposed
--Prince - dividing this lot into three pieces would not fit the
area and the subdivision is not that old. Area for the private
road has problems. Concerned about the drainfields setbacks above
the high water and drainage easement.
- -Michels - in order to consider affirmative action a hardship
needs to be shown. Has not seen a hardship. Bought the
property with the intention to build a single family home.
- -Gifford - Concerned with private streets - emergency vehicles,
no matter how infrequent, need to be able to get in and out
and, if a private road ho guarantee the three homeowners will
do their share in maintaining the road.
M/S/P Dreher/Nazarian to recommend denial of the variance request
for a private road for Eugene Strum.
Discussion -
--Nazarian - opposes private roads, as a member of the PZC; as
a resident of the Highlands opposes this type of resubdivision.
--Strum - questioned why he was not told that there was an
ordinance prohibiting private roads before making application.
--Mrs. Strum - been talking to a realtor and the realtor was the
first person to make contact with Lake Elmo. ...Realtor informed
them that Lake Elmo has no objections to a private road - only
concern is how it will be serviced and maintained for emergancy
vehicles. Stated the realtor talked to Larry Bohrer.
The Commission cited the following reasons for recommending denial
1. The City''s position on private roads
2. No hardship
3. Concern about emergency vehicle access
M/S/P Prince/Dreher to recommend denial of a Simple Lot Division
for Eugene Strum for the following reasons:
1. Possible inadequacy of a drainfield and alternate drainfield
site because of the high water setback requirement and position
of the proposed cul-de-sac (perc test was done in this location)
2. Question of adequate lot size or road frontage
3. Existing drainage easement needs to be considered
4. Lot division does not fit into the area of a new subdivision.
Motion carried 8-0,
The Commission did not discourage Mr. Strum from reapplying and
making a proposal for two lots.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 12; 1982 -5-
6. GENE PELTIER - PUBLIC INQUIRY -
Mr. Peltier owns 67 1/2 acres in section 35, along Highway 12.
The parcel is presently zoned Rural Residential. The new highway
will take a 40 ft. wide strip across the front of his property.
He asked the Commissions position on rezoning a 650 ft, deep strip
along the highway to Commercial'`so that he could relocate advertising
signs, presently along Hwy. 12 on his property, further back on
his land, The Ordinance permits advertising signs by CUP in
Industrial or Commercial zones; but not in Rural Residential.
Peltier said the Met Council recommends a strip of commercial
along Highway 12 650 ft, deep; also, that Woodbury and West
Lakeland have zoned their land along the highway commercial. -
Why hasn't Lake Elmo followed suit? If the property is not
rezoned commercial, Mr. Peliter wants to move a duplex, that is
being displaced by the highway in Woodbury, onto his property.
The duplex was built in 1971.
--Prince - highlighted the Commissions position on the Comp Plan
zoning - the area is planned commercial post 1990 with each
zoning request reviewed individually.
--Peltier - Hansen Horse Trailers would like to be rezoned also.
Why hasn't Lake Elmo rezoned like the rest of the communities?
Will lose revenue from the commercial signs if the property is
not rezoned,
--Gifford - recommended Peltier get together with neighboring
property owners and present a proposal for rezoning.
-Whittaker - does not believe the Council will vary its present
position on zoning at this time since no City services are
available to this area.
--Bruce Folz - suggested amending the Ordinance to permit this
type of use (advertising signs) in ag or rural residential,or
permit in rural residential by variance.
--Whittaker their are no grandfather rights on signs. The
present signs are non -conforming under the Ordinance; and the
ordinance directs their removal after five years (from Oct. 1979)
The Commission suggested Mr. Peltier approach the Council on this
request.
7. MOBIL HOME REGULATIONS -
Steven Taylor and Mike Ahrens of Cimarron Park discussed proposed
amendments to the Mobile Home regulations with the Commission.
Don Moe, a Cimarron resident and Planning Commission member was
unable to attend.. He requested the amendments be discussed, but
a final recommendation be delayed until he could be present.
A. Tie downs -
-- Taylor - all but 3-4 homes are bolted down to cement pillars
that the homes sit on, with the homes set into the ground.
Over the past nine years there has been no requests for a
different type of tie down. Under the State Code tie downs
are optional. Management has no objection to residents using
another type of tie down. Feels the present type of bolting
method meets the ordinance.
B. Shelters Under homes -
Nazarian - asked if the crawl service area under the homes
could be made deeper.
Taylor - Cimarron has made shelter provisions for its
residents at Oakland Jr. High and by installing a warning siren
within the park. This is a limited issue - 1-2 residents a year
ask about this.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, APRIL 12, 1982 P6-
7, MOBLF HQME REGULATIONS
B,','S' '0.ters Continued
'Taylor`"- excavation under the homes could weaken the support
of the piers holding the home. Also a potential for living
quarters.
Whittaker - this is a tenant/landlord question. City should
not get involved unless State law requires a shelter under
a home. No regulation that requires homes to have a basement
Taylor anyone can go under their home into the crawl space
if they want to. Complaints and questions are currently
coming to the City and not to,.the Park management.
C. Caretaker '(Attend'arrt')<on duty
City OrTinance says an -attendant shall be on duty - some
Cimarron residents have indicated that they would like some-
one on duty at all times,
Taylor - current law requires that someone be available for
emergencies at all times. When no one is in the office
residents are advised to contact the Sheriff's department
They have a list of names of responsible persons who work
for Cimarron and are responsible for responding to emergencies.
Mike Ahrens - Have posted office hours to handle normal types
of business. Also, after hours appointments can be made upon ,
request.- This is the same procedure Cimarron has followed
for the past 12 years.
Michels - residents should be encouraged to bring their
grievences to the Homeowners Association who in turn would
act as the liason between the residents and management.
These are resident/management issues.
8. LANDSCAPE STANDARDS -
Tabled
9, DAYTON-HUDSON LARGE LOT SUBDIVISION HEARING
M/S/P Dreher/Prince to hold a public hearing April 26, 1982,
at 7:45 p,m. on a Large Lot Subdivision for Dayton Hudson.
ADJOURNMENT 10:40 p.m.
1
Att
City of Lake Elmo
AGENDA
LAKE ELMO PLANNING CONJISSION
April 12, 1982
7:30 P.M. Meeting convenes
- 1. Minutes of March 8th. Meeting
7:45 P.M. - 2. Everett Beaubien-- Simple Lot Div.
8:00 P.M. - 3. Hearing on Zoning Amendments
8:30 P.M. - 4. Tom Armstrong-- Large Lot Subdiv.
and Rezoning to Ag.
8:45 P.M. - 5. Eugene Strum Simple Lot Div.
9:15 P.M. - 6. Gene Peltier --Public Inquiry
9:30 P.M. - 7. Mobile Home regulations
A. Tie downs
B. Shelter's under homes
C. Caretaker (Attendant) on duty
8. Fred Nazarian--Landscaping Standards
10:00 P.M. Adjourn
P. 0. Box J / Thirty-third and Laverne Avenue / Lake Elmo, Minnesota 55042 / 777-5510