HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-28-93 PZMCITY OF LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, MARCH 28, 1983
kamended
4/11/83
Chairman Prince called the meeting to order at 7:37 p.m.
Councillors Present: Nazarian, Moe, Michels, Peterson, Dreher and
Alternate Graves. Absent: Alternate Ryberg, Gifford, Lundquist and
Lyall. Also present, Administrator Whittaker.
1. MINUTES: March 14, 1983 -
M/S/P Michels/Nazarian to accept the minutes of March 14, 1983.
Carried 7-0.
7. ADMINISTRATOR'S COUNCIL REPORT:
A. Nelson/Hagem'an Rezoning - Whittaker reported that the Council
denied the rezoning request on a 4-1 vote. The Planning
Commission recommendation was included in the reasons for
denial.
B. Manfactured Housing - Whittaker reported that the Council
accepted the Planning Commission recommendations with the
exception of the definition for attendent in Section 302.
The Council voted to continue to use the language previously
defined by Section 402.180 concerning an attendant,
--Michels reitterated his opinion that this provision will be
extremely difficult to enforce.
6. 1983 WORK PLAN:
The Commission referred to the Administrator's memo of March 1, 1983,
outlining the proposed work plan for 1983.
--Prince recommended "reviewing the Comp Plan Land Use--Map-
when».considering tasks to bring the Comp Plan into compliance
with the Met Council guidelines. Believes this will result
in a revised land use map.
p,LANNING COMMISSION QUESTIONS:
--Dreher - asked the Administrator if the City has received any
information on changes in the wetland restrictions of the DNR
or Corp of Engineers. Whittaker said he,lhasn't received any
data from either agency.
--The''Commission requested tkiiat they be aprised of the DNR decision
regarding the Patrick Sinclair Shoreland Permit.
--Michels - asked for an up -date on the well testing near the
old landfill. Whittaker reported that the County is continuing
to monitor wells and that two residents have been told not
to use their water. There is no further report from the County
on resolving the problem.
2. PUBLIC HEARING ON REZONING PROPERTY AT COUNTY 15 AND HIGHWAY 5 -
WILLIS HUTCHINSON - FOR C&NW AUTO UNLOADING YARD:
Chairman Prince opened the hearing at 7:50 p.m.
Richard Ostlund, Attorney C&NW Railroad, introduced himself and
fellow railroad representatives, Virgil Steinhoff, Frank Jenko,
Roger Smith, and Jerry Panning. He presented a diagram of the
proposed site and facility, and explained the operation.
The site is75 acres on the northwest corner of'-I3igk�wa-y--5--OXNW tracks and
Manning Avenue, adjacent to the C&NW tracks. The property is
ownerd by Willis Hutchinson.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, MARCH 28, 1983 -2-
2. HUTCHINSON REZONING: Continued -
Mr, Ostlund outlined the daily procedure:
-Facility will be used to bring new cars by rail to the facility,
unloaded and readied for trucks to pick up and haul to service
retail distributors in a 5-6 state area. Presently GM and
Chrysler will be using the facility.
-Cars will be brought in on two trains which presently make this
run, so train traffic in the area will not increase..- from
Omaha and Chicago. Rail cars will be unhooked and shunted off
onto a side track east of Manning - will have a 16 car storage
area east of Manning and_a 34.-car space west. of Manning. Cars (rail)
will :then be switched into the facility for unloading. Plan to
complete this operation before 7 a.m. Total capacity of 70 rail-
road cars can be shifted into the facility on the spur track
crossing Manning. 16 car units will be shifted across Manning -
entire operation can be completed in approximately 1 1/2 hours
with interminttent traffic stopages of 3-4 minutes. Believe
Traffic problems will be insignificant.
-Cars will be driven off the rail carriers and put into their
designated areas'within the facility - three areas :-
GM, Chrylser and a future expansion area. 50..acres will be
blacktopped with the expansion area remaining in grass at present.
The railroad cars will then be shunted out of the facility in
the early evening between 7 p.m. and 9 p.m., approximately, in
16 car lots, again, causing minimum traffic delay. These cars
will be hooked onto a train making a regular run through the area.
--Jerry Panning, District Manager of C&NW Twin City Division -
further explained the car pick up by existing trains through the
area.
--Howard Michels - did the railroad look at other properties to
try to avoid tying up a County road.
--Virgil Steinhoff, C&NW, Industrial'Development Manager - looked
as several possible sites - based on the amount of acreage this
was the most desirable site.
--Robert Ostlund - safety aspect - crossing will be, byrebbmmendation
of C&NW, serviced by safety armsu,and-flashers. Mn/DOT records
show this as a very safe crossing -no accident since 19717 safety
factors will be upgraded. In response to Commissioner Nazarian,
an additional passing track will be constructed next to the
main track as well as a spur track, 'Actual crossing may expand,
but the location will not change. Main train or existing traffic
will not change as a result of this facility. Only increase will
be the intermittent shunting of .theitrains across the tracks.
Besed on volume of business in similar facilities and intended
use of this one, anticipate an average of 40-50-=rail cars will be
in the holding/storage area at any time in an area capable of
accomodating 70 cars.
-Trucking Operation - cars will be trucked out of the facility
during daytime hours. Access will be from the northwest corner
of the facility onto Manning Avenue. Presently anticipated that
the entire operation of the facility will be sub -contracted out to
a company specializing in hauling cars. Average number of trucks
nut of the facility in a, 12 hour day is 70 trucks or 5 per hour.
Anticipate 100/day or 8 trucks an, hour if car sales improve.
Do not feel 5 trucks hour substantial - sight lines good and will
not have slow moving truck traffic creating a traffic hazard.
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, MARCH 28, 1983 -3-
2. HUTCHINSON HEARING:
--Prince - what direction would the trucks be generally heading„
--Jerry Panning - most would head north towards the freeway.
Servibe area includes the -Twin Cities, Western Wisconsin, -North
and South Dakota, Iowa, part of Nebraska - many will go towards
the Twin Cities,
--Whittaker - County did not mention the design of 15 as a problem
area for truck traffic, Not sure about load limits in the spring.
May have to use Highway 5.
- -Robert Ostlund - Facility would employ between 10-15 people.
Facility bounded. on all sided by a 6' chain link fence with barbed
wire security top; Lights around perimeter for security. Security
will be provided by the sub -contractor who operates the facility,
thereby, requiring little need for City police'or.fire protection.
Only building on site will be a small structure in the northwest
corner that will be used to house the operator's personnel, and
offices. A well and septic will be located in this area. A
grassed area will be adjacent to the perimeter road along the fence
and will comply with local landscape regulations. Intend to
pond water on -cite, pursuant to a permit from Valley Branch. Have
discussed developing_a_plan with them that is compatible with Y.
drainage problems particular to this property. In the process of
conducting an analysis of what will be required to meet VBWD regs,
--Howard Michels - have you looked at other options as far as not
tying up the County road such as spurring somewhere else.
- -Robert Ostlund - Yes, not feasible from an economical or engineering
standpoint,
- -Howard Michels - shunting rail cars will go on all day - will be
a continual drain on availability of the County road. Very
concerned about this
---Jerry Panning - majority (95%) of the cars will be on the train
from the east and goes through this area between 4-6 a.m, No
switch train will be on -site. This is not a switching operation -
transport cars are shoved into the shunting area.
--Robert Ostlund - there will be no loud impact noise from the
trains with this operation.
This land was zoned Industrial until 1979. When the new zoning
was done at that time Mr. Hutchinson was informed that if he
presented a suitable project for this parcel, industrial zoning
would be considered as the intent of this area. Good area for
this use because no City services are required, type of industry
that will create spin-off industries and will be economically
beneficial to the area. If intent is to develop this area in
industrial, by this facility, the railroad is committed to this
area and has invested in development. This type of industrial
development is'non-.polluting and will not drain City services.
Site was previously planned industrial, has twe highways adjacent
to its boundaries, next to C&NW mainline, and is very near the
airport. Not suited for residential, but good for light industrial.
- -Nancy Prince - water is a considerable concern - water from the
Old Village drains and accumulates in this area. A very large
ponding area will be required,. What are the ponding plans - may
need to delay action until this question is resolved.
--Robert Ostlund - have talked with County - in their opinion a 10-
13 acre ponding area is necessary, Have considered a 4 acre area
on site, this not large enough. Do not want to take this area from
the facility, if possible. Have discussed purchasing a limited
amount of acreage from Mr. Hutchinson across the tracks that could
serve as a ponding area on -site, Have access to property for'_ponding.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, MARCH 28, 1983
-4-
2. HUTCHINSON REZONING: Continued -
--Prince - City requires that no more water run off a site after
development than did before. This would be required on this site.
Concerned with the amount (50 acres) of pavement and the fact
that this area holds a great deal of water now.
--Robert Ostlund - County has stated that for the total intended use,
which is more pavement than the initial 50 acres, a 13 acre pond
would be adequate. This statement is not in writing from the
County.
--Virgil Steinhoff - responsibility of determining the ponding area
will be tip to Barr Engineering - C&NW will provide the area and
calculations - then submit the plan to Valley Branch for approval.
--Pete Schiltgen -farms Hutchinson property - reported that there
is an axel weight restriction on County 15. 100 trucks in and out
of the facility constitutes 200 movements of vehicles per day.
Regarding land use: have to consider the over-all picture and how
it fits into the Comp Plan; also, have to consider the land in
question. In all of Washington County this is the best faLm land.
Prime fatm land has to have good top soil, good water retention,
and flat contour. This parcel has all the qualities of prime land.
Understood that the water table in this area is at 4 ft.
Asked the Planning Commission to consider what this land was intended
for - do not believe it was intended for railroads, cars, trucks
and pavement,
--Virgil Steinhoff - was told by the County that County 15 was not
restricted.
--Willis Hutchinson - pavement on County 15 was recently redone - see
no problem with trucks using that area north up to County 5.
--Robert Ostlund - explained the storage shunt area to Commissioner
Michels. Property to the south of the tracks was not considered,
since the north site had the area needed.
--Nancy Prince - referred the Commission and audience to pages 88
and 90 of the Comp Plan which outlines the goals of the City
development and plans. Expressed great concern about the large
amount of prime ag land that will be paved over.
-Robert Ostlund - in the present plan and before 1979 this land
was designated Industrial development with the reason being the
proximity of the property to highways; the railroad and the airport.
This use fulfills the past and future-intentions�of the City.
--Nancy Prince - when original Comp Plan map was drawn up were not
aware that this was prime farm land - this was just recently brought
to the attention of the PZC. In light of the new information, the
City may need to reconsider future use.
--Pete Schiltgen - in answer to Commissioner Nazarian, land south
of the tracks is good farm land also, terrain is alittle more hilly.
--Willis Hutchinson - in past negotiations with Mr. Schiltgen, he
always maintained this land was #3 farm land.
--Robert Ostlund - Mr. Hutchinson was given a written confirmation
that a reasonable proposal for an Industrial development would be
considered. Believes this proposal fits into the Comp Plan and
the City's future development plans. In response to Commissioner
Graves - this property will be assessed as all other railroad
property - property tax may increase about 3 times based on the
present pro -rated state tax.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, MARCH 28, 1983 -5-
2 HUTCHINSON REZONING: Continued -
--bon Moe - Two concerns - ponding and tying up County 15. Ponding
is the biggest concern.
--Howard Michels - questioned what makes this parcel more attractive
over other sites along the railroad.
--Robert Ostlund - area is adjacent to the railroad; availability
of the property; location to the service area; size of the parcel;
contour of the land - flat,
In response to Commissioner Dreher - have contacted the Airport
Commission . They have indicated that, as the airport now exists,
there are no problems. Have looked at other property along the
highway closer to I-694, but the terrain was too hilly and
drainage looked like a problem.
--Bob Dreher - believe there are other sites closer to 1694 that
with some redesign would be more conducive for this facility.
--Don Moe - questioned expansion design.
--Frank Jenko - proposing a facility that will handle 40 rail cars
per day where there is a 72 car capacity. Expect to reach the 72
capacity at some point, but have no plans for expansion beyond
this at this time.
--Virgil Smith - in response to Commissioner Nazarian - no possibility
of gas or oil spillage - auto arrive with 2 gal of gas in tank and
are not fueled before they are reloaded on the car transporter.
--Robert Ostlund - at a point of negotiating a closing with GM,
also negotiating with Valley Branch. Requested that the Commission
approve the rezoning contingent upon C&NW securing the required
ponding approval from Valley Branch and any other criteria they
deemed necessary for the development. Cannot close with GM without
the assurance of zoning.
--Nancy Prince - would like the water problem resolved before rezoning.
Chairman Prince closed the hearing at 9:00 p.m.
--Administrator Whittaker - comments on the Comp Plan:
One of the first stages in the planning process was to evaluate
land use - ag was considered, map on page 32 of the Comp Plan
indicates this, but the location of the parcel determined its
future use. There are only two locations in the City planned
for light industrial, this parcel and a parcel west of the 3M
property between Highway 5 and the railroad trabks. Another
consideration was this property was previously zoned Industrial
when the Comp Plan was approved. Aside from d.gricultue, use of
this parcel is very lim ited. Have to consider the long term
economic value of the property.
--Nancy Prince -
Disadvantages in rezoning: 1. elimination of 75 acres of prime
farm land; 2. increase of traffic and restriction of traffic on
County 15; 3. water problems which have not been addressed.
Advantages: 1. possible increase of employment; 2. possible
increase of tax base.
--Howard Michels - concerned about losing prime ag land- not much
left in the City - acknowledged, acording to the Comp Plan, this
use would fit.
--Larry Whittaker - have to ask if farming will be a viable use
in the long run - answer is yes as long as there is someone to
farm it, but this is not guaranteed. Also have to consider what
the land owner wants. Met Council Guidelines have no land in
Washington County designated as agricultural land. Map does not show
any long term ag in Washington County. What is the ultimate use of
this property. All this was considered when the Comp Plan was developed.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, MARCH 28, 1983 -6-
2, HUTCHINSON REZONING: Continued -
--Pete Schiltgen - have to consider the long range plan, the area
and what is there. Cannot consider the individual. This land
is God given and once its gone its gone forever.
--Willis Hutchinson - questions who would farm his property should
something happen to Pete Schiltgen,
--Chuck Graves - concerned about the number of trucks going in and
out per day. Have to expect them to use Highway 36 - will this
be a burden to the community?
—Nancy Prince - more concerned about the trucks going down Highway
5 through Lake Elmo to 1-694.
--Fred Nazarian - if guess wrong on the ponding will eliminate prime
ag land and possibly flood property to the south of the tracks,
M/S/ Graves/Nazarian to table action on the Hutchinson rezoning
request pending information on the ponding question,
Discussion:
--Fred Nazarian - urged C&NW have information back so Commission
can make a recommendation before their April deadline,
--Robert Ostlund - presently in the process of analyzing this
question - this is very lengthy process - would like zoning
assurances before ponding design and calculations are complete.
Zoning approval could be based on meeting the ponding requirements.
Could provide a rough engineering report from Barr.
--Larry Whittaker ponding question is usually addressed during
site and building plan review. Zoning is a land use question.
Decision is whether this is an appropriate land use. Facility
cannot be built without valley Branch approval,
--Howard Michels - opposes the rezoning for the following reasons:
1. Believe key is preservation of ag land and feels a responsibility
to the community to enforce this.
2. Concerned with the tie-up of traffic on County 15. Feels with
some effort and redesign this could be avoided.
3. Concerned with the water question.
--Bill Peterson - noted with the proposed additional ponding area
will lose 85 to 90 acres of ag land,
Commissioners Graves and Nazarian withdrew their motion.
M/S/ Graves/Nazarian to recommend denial of the rezoning request
from Willis Hutchinson for the following reasons:
1. Rezoning would result in the loss a minimum of 75 acres of
prime agricultural land,
2. Lack of information on the run-off/ponding for the proposed facility,
3. Traffic problems created on County 15,by the facility.
4. This is a severe water retention area as listed on the Soil
Limitation Map.
Discussion
--Fred Nazarian - have to consider the letter to Mr. Hutchinson
Motion carried 5-1-1. Moe opposed, Nazarian abstained.
--Robert Ostlund - Challenged the recommendation.
1. Rezoning and proposal fit within the intent and guidelines
of the Comp Plan - believes decision was made on personal
opinion,
2. Clear reliance factor involved with the assurance given that
Industrial zoning would be considered and the fact that ag-
ricultural use was consideredr with industrial use planned.
Mr, Hutchinson presented a plan that conforms to what was
planned in 1979 and zoned for previous to that time.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, MARCH 28, 1983 -7-
*amended
4/11/83
{
{
3, •1 1/2 ACRE LOTS:
A. 'Reducing' Lot' S'i-ze . *r\2bn'ing -
The Commission briefly discussed their previous meeting and
comments with Lyle Doerr and Mike Hansel,
Commissioners Moe, Peterson and Michels indicated support
of a one acre minimum. Before further discussion the Commission
requested input from the City Council,
B. Reducing Area of 1' 1/2 Acre Lots in Comp Plan - The
Commission reviewed the proposed R-1 land use map in the
Comp Plan as suggested by the Met Council, and determined
that the following areas are not "in -fill" areas and
should not be planned R-1 but General Rural Use until post
1990. This would require all new residential development would
have to be on platted lots. The areas discussed were':
1. Ag parcel at County 70 & Lake Elmo Avenue - NE corner
2. Ag parcel at County 70 & Lake Elmo Avenue - NW corner
3. RR parcel on County 70 (l0th St.) Nelson/Hageman
4, *==tAt of Section 24 off 2F6t1;r St. - Bap.aad-pr-epge ttNE 1/4-30th
5. Ag parcel off Stillwater Blvd. - Friedrich property
6. All planned R-1 in Section 16,
7. RR parcel, Section 15 - Niepoldt property
8. Friedrich parcel Section 14,
9, All RR in Section 14,
10, NW 1/4 of Section 3 - Kleis property
--Prince - would like to delete both Industrial zoning area
and provide for this use in Section 32 where public facilities
will be available.
4. SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS: Deferred until April 11,
5, I-94 STRIP Deferred until April 11,
ADJOURNMENT: 10:20 p.m.
4
CITY OF
LAKE
ELMO
City of Lake Elmo
777-5510
3880 Laverne Avenue North / Lake Elmo, Minnesota 55042
AGENDA
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION
March 28, 1983
7:30 P.M. --Meeting convenes
1. Minutes, March 14 meeting
7:45 P.M.--2. Public Hearing on Rezoning of
property for C&NW auto unloading
yard. Manning Ave. & C&NW Tracks
8:30 P.M.--3. 12 acre lots
A. Reducing lot size - zoning
B. Reducing area of 11/2 lots in
Comp. Plan
4. Subdivision Ord. Amendments
5. I-94 Strip
6. 1983 Work Plan
7. Report:
A. Nelson/Hagemann
B. Manufactured Housing
ADJOURN 10:00 P.M.