HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-12-83 PZM(
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
SEPTEMBER 12, 1983
Chairperson Prince called the meeting to order at 7:38
City Hall.
p.m.
at the
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Dreher, Lyall, Lundquist, Michels, Moe,
Nazarian, and Peterson. (Absent: Gifford, Alternates Graves and
Ryberg.) Also present, City Administrators Whittaker and Klaers.
1. MINUTES - Consensus was to table approval of the 8/22/83 Plan-
ning Commission minutes until the 9/26/83 meeting when changes/
corrections/etc. will be turned over to Ilene Johnson for revision.
2. PUBLIC HEARING, I-94 COMP PLAN PROPOSED CHANGES - The public
hearing was opened at 7:43 p.m. by Chairperson Prince to hear
responses to the proposed amendments to the I-94 Comprehensive
Plan. Prince explained that this issue had been discussed many
times with no consensus reached; City Planner came in with the
present plan (time period 1983-1990) which met general agreement.
Whittaker explained what proposed changes were and why they were
made. Property owners in Sections 32 and 33 have met over a period
of time and agreed upon a plan for that area which is more detailed,
precipitated by waste -to -energy plant. Blue areas --future
industrial; green --residential (R1 to R4); red --general business;
brown stripes --highway business. Plan also calls for moving the
MUSA line 1/4 mile east in Sec. 33 and 1/4 mile deep to Inwood as approved!
by the City Council. The Planning Commission and Planner agreed
that Lake Elmo couldn't have 4 miles of unsewered commercial
property or highway business. Proposal is to concentrate
commercial in Sections 32 and 33 and around Intersections 13 & 19.
Balance of property, up to 1990, would be planned for general rural
use which permits agricultural and rural residential--yellow--which
was previously shown as highway business. All other areas shown as
RR are already in that zoning definition in Comp Plan and Zoning
Ordinances. None of the properties that would be affected by this
amendment are zoned general business or highway business; they're
zoned RR. Principal reasons for changes are: (a) we feel we're
not going to be able to attract a quality commercial development to
this area once they are sewered if the area is covered with a lower
grade commercial or low -density commercial, (b) we're having a hard
time coming up with an "interim use" that can be easily moved when
the conditions are right for some higher quality development --
either commercial or residential, and (c) we feel that City needs
to concentrate its service demands in fewer areas instead of having
a strip 5 miles long that we have to provide fire and police
protection, highway maintenance, and potentially sewer and water,
and would like to concentrate those services to areas that are most
likely to develop (Sections 32 and 33 and two major intersections).
♦ John Bannigan, attorney for 94 Investment Company (fee owner of
S 1/2-SE 1/4, Sec. 36, T29N, or NW quadrant of Intersections I-94
and 15) - Owners are concerned as to why comprehensive or use plan
is being changed from freeway or highway oriented business to rural
LAKE ELMO PLAN. COM. MTG. - 9/12/83 Page 2
residential. What we hear from your planning advisor here is that
your trying to gain control and match up your MUSA line and comp
plan uses with your existing zoning which would be appropriate if
developer brings in quality devlopment, but I can't think of RR as
being the long-term use at the NW quadrant of 15 and 94 and
ultimately the County plans to put in another ring road on 15.
Apparently, you're not shuting door but are acknowledging what is
fact. We do have some approaches now for uses in the NW quadrant
which are not consistent with RR but are with highway oriented
business and would not want to be stopped from coming in and
presenting these to you if, in fact, they're self contained and
provide their own sanitary sewer and water. I guess that's your
concern that you don't have to start stringing major trunk lines
out especially when you're not going to get them from M.W.C.C. We
have a sod farm now that will be put into some other use later on
and we don't want to be stopped from coming into you with our
proposal. Total parcel in question in Lake Elmo is <80 acres
(1,500' frontage on Highway 94 and 1/4 mile deep on Highway 15).
♦ Joel Solomon, representing Dayton Hudson Corp. - Our company owns
parcels which stretch down to Highway 12, one comprised of about 80
acres (1,100' frontage) and one about 60 acres (650' frontage),
both of which are in the RR yellow areas on your map. I would like
to find out if the issue is for control of commercial development
or if you just don't want it in these areas because the company
believes we have been good developers and good citizens wherever
we've been. On the matter of control, I think there's another
alternative you can loo]c at as opposed to RR zoning; and that is, you
can build into your zoning laws controls under a business -type
zoning that would guarantee the right type of development; e.g. we
would have to bring a site plan to you that would have to be
approved, if that's the issue. (Prince - we're a small town and
have a downtown commercial zone and a plan for commercial in
Section 32 and want to concentrate on those two areas where we can
provide services that properties need; we don't want things spread
out at this point. If someone brings in a plan worth looking at,
we would be open to seeing it; but right now we have enough
commercial planning for the size of our town and don't think we
need any more.) (Dreher - this plan goes to 1990 only.)
® Joel Solomon -- What is sewer or utility plan for stretch of
Highway 12? (Prince - there is none.) Does it make sense to have
RR applied to frontage on a service road on an I -system freeway?
(Lyall - only to the extent to keep from haphazard building as
we've had along there.) I keep hearing a concern for haphazard
development; I guess that's why I'm here since I feel you can
accomplish well planned development without going to extreme RR
zoning and could put things into your zoning laws. (Prince - this -
is a plan, not rezoning; and rezoning will not necessarily follow
the plan = hard to foresee what will happen after 1990.) (Lyall -
what you're saying is that it's inevitable that business will be
there someday; it's a question of how soon. I believe its
foolhardy to sit and say this is an interstate that isn't going to
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LAKE ELMO PLAN. COM. MTG. - 9/12/83 Page 3
be developed; we know it's going to be developed in due time.)
Concern is that well -conceived commercial -type development will be
denied because of RR type plan. (Lyall - if someone came in with
plan that was acceptable perhaps there would be another alternative
and that's really what we're saying.) (Lundquist - there hasn't
hardly been any action down there for the past 20 years.)
(Nazarian - I believe your point that there should be no problem
with a "well conceived" plan bears repeating and that's what we
want to see.) (Prince - we have to keep in mind though that
there's not going to be any sewer there or it will be a long, long
time because the rest of the town doesn't need it.) Is this a
policy of Lake Elmo? If you have a RR plan, you can always say you
don't need sewer because it's a RR plan; if you add commercial
zoning then you're going to see a need a lot sooner. (Nazarian when development takes place sewer will be a logical thing to look
at, but right now there are no plans for sewer to go beyond the
MUSA line. Anybody that puts in any kind of commercial development
will have to have a totally self-contained system.) Let me get
back to my original statement - if you're concerned about the
quality of development along that stretch, isn't it plausible to
place upon that property a plan or zoning that will allow that type
of development and to build in controls that you need to ensure
that the City will have the right type development there? (Prince
- instead of having development all along 94, we would prefer it
starting in Section 32 and developing around interchanges and then
it can spread in between; and that's the way we would like to stage
it and if you have property in between you may have to wait.) Now
I'm hearing a deviation from a well planned development to staged
development in certain areas. (Michels - isn't that what it really
is --well planned or staged--i.e., to fill in around intersections
and then let it expand.) But a developer who would want to buy 15
or 30 acres with a very nice development plan, self-contained and
whatever, I preceive your response would be that's fine but right
now we're concentrating on interchanges so will disallow this.
♦ John Bannigan - What I'm hearing is that this is a community
that's been burnt in the past (e.g., premature announcements on
right-of-ways); and as long as you don't have to spend any money on
extraordinary expenses such as fire protection, extending sewer and
water lines, you'll only be looking at the quality of the
development. If we come up with some decent land uses, I like the
idea of creative zoning if you'd be willing to spend some time and
devise one where the ultimate repositore of granting the zone or
the use is in the Council finding submission of a quality plan. I
don't see that in what you have before you; all you've got is a
holding zone and are waiting for us to come in with quality plan
that has access that you don't have to duplicate or utilities you
don't have to provide. I think it would be a lot easier for us to
entertain developers if we had more encouragement from City saying
yes, we acknowledge that there's going to be commercial and
industrial along that strip and here's a performance standard
package that you're going to have to meet. (Joel Solomon - that's
what I'm talking about.) (Lunquist - we don't know how to write
LAKE ELMO PLAN. COM. MTG. - 9/12/83 Page 4
that. It took us 10 years to get our Comp Plan through; there's no
way you can teach us before 1990 to write such a development
standard.)
p John Blomquist, John Blomquist, Inc. - My company owns piece of
land in Section 34; and although nobody has told me this, I suspect
that one of reasons for the Planning Commission and Council's
concern's in this matter may relate in part to a development on our
part when we put up a pole barn to serve as part of the Ultra-Lite
Air Park. Although I don't think we can argue the merits of that
particular use for the land; I would like to echo the comments of
some of the people here to establish, if possible, a land use
classification that would contemplate the ultimate likely uses of
the property but give enough control to the Planning Commission and
the Council, even if it were some kind of arbitrary control dealing
with aesthetics and any number of things. That would be preferable
from my standpoint to a zoning or plan change that would not
recognize those ultimate uses. When a developer comes forward with
a plan, it seems that a rezoning plan action is often times an
adversary kind of situation that tends to bring out the worst in
all of us. I would suggest that a land use plan with a classifica-
tion that itemizes or contemplates some of the likely uses while
retaining very strong controls would be a preferable situation and
accepts the reality of the direction that development is likely to
go, and the Planning Commission and Council have the necessary
controls to make sure that it's the kind of development that's in
the long-range plan. (Prince - we can't foresee in the year 2000
what houses will be where; I think we should stick to what we have
to do and that is to make a plan through 1990. I feel it's
impossible to make an ultimate plan for what we want to see along
the interstate; perhaps someday it will be commercial because the
cities will start creeping out this way but perhaps it won't. What
we have done is respond to what we're required to do, and what we
want to see is development of Section 32 and development around
those intersections.) I would suggest that when you remove a
certain amount of uncertainty --obviously nobody knows what's going
to occur in terms of development --you encourage the best creative
thinking on the part of landowners and developers if over a period
of years you can bring together the thinking of the planners and
elected officials with the landowners and not have divergent
expectations which often times happens when the zoning classifica-
tions are quite different from what individual landowners expect
ultimately. (Prince - that's one reason for having this hearing is
to get your ideas for what you'd like to see.)
• Brad Gunn, with R. J. O'Neil (owner of Vali-Hi Drive In) - His
property is zoned general commercial business and would like to
confirm that it is still zoned that. (Prince - We are not
altering any present zones.) (Whittaker - It's general business
and there'll be standards, but anything that's permitted in that
zoning district will still be permitted. You have to have site
plans, etc. Property that's already zoned will not be changed
because of this process.)
LAKE ELMO PLAN. COM. MTG. - 9/12/83 Page 5
• Gene Peltier, property in Section 35 on edge of cloverleaf - I
see you have highway business between 19 and 17. My question is
that it's marked out for general and highway business, and why is
this proprty excluded from it since it's off the cloverleaf?
(Prince - Plan is to put highway/commercial business on two sides
of County 19.) (Whittaker - plan is 1/4 mile back from present
Highway 12.) How is this business going to get onto the freeway
from the cloverleaf? (Whittaker - That's a frontage road which
will have accesses.) I hope I live long enough to see this great
year 1990. All of a sudden, are the doors going to open and we're
going to do something? Can't we back the plan up a bit from 1990?
I guess the Planning Commission figures by 1990 Woodbury will be
pretty well developed and people will have to build to Lake Elmo.
o Prince - What would you prefer that we do with this plan?
* John Solomon - That you not place a RR zoning on property in
question here tonight, but place it in commercial zoning but
having controls written into that zoning where people have to come
into the City with well -designed plans that meet City
requirements. (Prince - those controls are already in our plans.)
It concerns me that with RR zoning, you'll face problems with
haphazard and non -quality development.
O John Hannigan - We have every confidence that we'll be coming in
with a quality development, but as part of my practice of
representing municipalities it's rather a deceiving situation
knowing that you're just sitting back and waiting for quality
development that you can pick and choose between. Granted you
should have more of an open indication that the area has been
identified for development. If your worried about drawing that, I
can plagiarize all kinds of performance standards from communities
that we represent; there's all kinds of definitions and uses.
That's not a big task, it's recognition of the reality of the
situation in your community; if you get the consensus I think you
can handle that. We are aware of and sensitive to what this
community has gone through with the highway department, but let's
put that behind us and press on with the future. I understand
where you're coming from; however, I don't think you're being
realistic in the approaches you're taking using it as a holding
zone and then entertaining development at certain locations. It's
your community and we're willing to work with you, but those are
our suggestions.
o John B.lomquist - Woodbury had a category called Special Impact
District which recognized the unusual sensitivity of certain
parcels for a period of time, particularly as the freeway develop-
ment was emerging and some other things were happening. As I read
that ordinance, it seemed to be a type of planned district
ordinance that gave very, very extensive controls to the Council
and yet contemplated ultimate/general types of uses so people
could be directed in a certain direction. Landowners were brought
in and an agreement was reached at that time so their wasn't a lot
LAKE ELMO PLAN. COM. MTG. - 9/12/83 Page 6
of acrimony about ultimate uses and there weren't some of the
rezoning problems as to those parcels. They actually rezoned some
of those parcels. Woodbury was able to pull those landowners into
the plan and get their agreement that it was an orderly process.
I think it's going to offer more future potential for high quality
development because everyone knew what type of use people wanted
to see there. With respect to our piece, we'd like to see our
land and everything around it classified and zoned to give the
Council a lot of control; I wouldn't like to see someone come in
with a poor quality RR development that would likely be around and
affecting our property for a long, long time.
0 John Klein, representing R. J. O'Neil Company - I would like to
ask a couple of questions. In your comprehensive plan, isn't
business your ultimate use along the Highway 94 strip? (Prince -
Right, for plans to 1990.) Your ultimate use for the community
is that you want to see commercial along 94? (Prince - no, I
can't say ultimate since the plan approved by Met Council is up to
1990.) You people on the Planning Commission aren't contemplating
residential land fronting on I-94, are you? (Prince - some people
think it should be all commercial and some do not; that's why
we've had trouble coming up with a plan to this point.
Personally, I do not since this town is so little I don't see any
pressure for commercial development and don't see a need for it.)
I was chairman of the Eagan Town Board for 9 years, 10 years on
the Dakota County Planning Commission, so I've been sitting on
your side of the fence several times. From what I've seen here
tonight it seems that commercial is going to be in this 25
square miles, and someday in the future this probably will be a
saturated community. In general, any kind of residential
development along a high-speed interstate freeway or frontages is
not good planning. The intent of some of you people that inject
RR into that atmosphere is to try to discourage people from coming
into that area before you can actually provide the public services
for it. If it's your intention to stop the applications for
commercial along the areas you utlimately feel will be commercial,
then I would suggest you do it in a different way than changing
the plan zone. If you have your comprehensive plan laid out and
it makes sense to keep commercial up against the high -action
roads, then I would suggest you keep that and control it by
putting the burden of proof upon the applicant when he comes in to
develop that land. You can ask how the developer is going to
provide sanitary sewer and water. We thought for a long time that
in Eagan nothing would happen along the eastern boundary because
the river was closer to the westerly boundary, but things changed.
You can extend a trunk line out into an area economically if you
get enough activity into the area because collectively they can
afford that; the rest of the City is not going to be paying that
since it's a direct assessment. Once I-94 is open and you see
that type of activity there, don't close the door on it. Eagan
has been one of the 5 lowest in taxes in the 7-county area since
1960 because we prepared and accommodated for industrial growth.
In the beginning stages, we tried to bring a 50:50 ratio into our
LAKE ELMO PLAN. COM. MTG. - 9/12/83 Page 7
community between the assessed valuation of the industrial,
commercial and residential, since residential development is
generally a tax liability and demands more services. So if you
can bring commercial and industrial in before those people, you're
going to create for yourself a very nice tax base. When that
development comes in along 94, it may be a great idea to run a
trunk line out there and then the other things will flow into it.
So my suggestion is don't undo your plan if that's what you
utlimately want it to be; if you're really going to have it
commercial why don't you keep it that way.
• Gene Peltier - You stated a while ago that this community of
5,000 couldn't support any more commercial business down there. I
agree with you; I think if you took a poll you'd be lucky if you
had 5% of the 5,000 people doing business down there. And any
commercial development isn't going to depend on a little group of
5,000 to make it flourish. Now, they're certainly looking at the
traffic flow that goes by this highway every day. (Michels -
absolutely, Gene, and that's why we figured the natural expansion
would be around the intersection since it will come from the
traffic flow. The other portion is that the sewered section up
there has been there for years and hasn't gone anywhere. We don't
want to get into building a house here and there, but want to
control it a little bit.)
• Prince - One other point I'd like to make is that when we talk
of services, it's not only sewer and water but police protection
(we don't have 24-hour protection) and a volunteer fire department
headquartered in town.
• John Klein - When I came on the Eagan Town Board, we had no fire
department or public works (20 years ago). But what we found
happening is as these other industries that would call for these
kinds of services came into being, we started building these
departments and it's worked out very well. And we could afford
this without having our taxes go up because of industrial and
commercial tax bases. And you don't put a burden on people.
• Michels - Do you think we're trying to discourage commercial
development?
• John Klein - I think you're at the point where you think you
can't provide the sewer and water for it, and you're trying to
discourage what you think would be leap -frogging. What I'm
suggesting is when you do that you're liable to discourage com-
mercial entirely, and what I'm suggesting you do is keep your
zoning as you've got it but control what you're trying to achieve
by putting the burden of proof on the developer when he comes
in --not to zone it out of there. If services cannot be provided by
the developer, you have sound grounds for denial because of the
health, safety and well-being of the community. With this plan,
you'd be discouraging people from looking at it and investigating
it. It'll help you reach the decision to run a line out by
LAKE ELMO PLAN. COM. MTG. - 9/12/83 Page 8
starting to reach out to these areas if and when there's enough
action in it. Collectively, 2 or 3 developers could be enough to
run it out there. (Prince - we can't run the line out because we
don't have any more sewer capacity beyond the MUSA line.)
• John Blomquist - What would be the mechanism the Planning
Commission or Council would use to stop me from coming in with a
RR proposal on my property for a clustered residential
development? Property owners on both sides might be furious, but
what kind of controls would the Planning Commission or Council
have against that type of development? (Whittaker - none.)
Is that what Lake Elmo wants? Houses are not going to be torn
down such as the pole barn could be; they're going to be there
forever. It seems that you're giving up a chance right now to
control the way this whole area looks 15 to 10 years from now by
down -zoning it to a lesser use and encouraging people to come in
with plans that you don't like but can't stop. (Prince - But if
we leave it all commercial then someone can put up something
commercial that's inappropriate and we can't stop it.) (John
Solomon - that's where your controls come in.) It seems to me
that even if you got into fairly arbitrary things --aesthetics,
etc. --and have a panel or retain so-called experts to render
judgments on even the most subjective of criteria, developers
would rather come in and convince the experts that what I'm doing
is high quality.
• Lundquist - Would somebody give us some drafts of controls that
you think might work?
• Dorothy Lyons - I use to be on the Planning Commission and City
Council here and I'm irritated*by hearing "no, we don't want any
type commercial development." I concur with Messrs. Klein,
Blomquist and Solomon that we'd better start thinking about a
better tax base because property owners are getting tired of
increasing taxes. Why can't you keep it commercial instead of
putting in RR that can't be stopped?
• Gene Peltier - I think we should leave porch door open so that
we can at least get some encouragement to do some development.
We're going to have to do some fast moving because we have 2,200
acres in this park out here that isn't generating 5 cents and we
have some other proposed parks that are doing the same thing.
Something should be looked to in the future and not wait until
1990 to get some tax base generated before we get in a bind.
• Prince - The people aren't here tonight but I got so many phone
calls from a lot of homeowners that want this to stay a quiet
bedroom town and not have any industrial and little commercial.
• Lyons - Nobody will be able to afford to live here if we keep
going the route we've been going. I'm tired of hearing of police
and fire protection because of the Regional Park which will need
these services. Have you seen sewer plan for the Regional Park?
LAKE ELMO PLAN. COM. MTG. - 9/12/83 Page 9
(Prince - no.) Why haven't you? (Prince - it hasn't been
presented to us yet.) You set up barriers to people who come in
here for development, yet let a regional park for 3,000-4,000
people come in here without a sewer plan. Daytons went down to
Woodbury, and now Woodbury is talking about having a race track
right across 94 on 19; and you're sitting here telling us we
shouldn't have development on 19? I think everyone in this
audience should get together and organize like they did in
Section 32 and come up with a plan. (Prince - that would be very
helpful to us.) Why can't Woodbury and Lake Elmo work together
on a sewer plan? Oakdale is putting in a gravity fed sewer
system and that's what we should have in this community while we
have the opportunity, not after Regional Park is put in.
John Klein - In Eagan, we were in same situation you are. But
we have 1 out of every 5 acres set aside for parks, made possible
by encouraging commercial and industrial. We made a commitment to
provide a trunk sewer line for the MN Zoo through our community.
We started right off and determined we didn't want to be a
bedroom community and thought if we planned our community well,
it would be a good place to live, work and play and we could
provide all those things within it. Those communities who wanted
to stay bedroom communities (e.g. Mendota Heights)have regretted
it when it comes down to their taxes. (Prince - I realize that
and wish the people who holler over the phone would be here to
respond to this plan.) One thing when you're talking about your
growth, I believe in the projection that Met Council came up with
that we will have to provide 220,000 new houses a year between
1975 and 1985. (Prince - projections for Lake Elmo were way off
base.) But that's going to come; and I've never felt you can keep
people out of a community but have to provide for that growth.
If you try to attract the kinds of tax bases talked about here
tonight, you'll have a good community and a good mix. Courts
cannot make you give a building permit when you have a good
reason not to, but you have to take advantage of your assets
from getting mileage from tax base along major arteries.
Anything you do to discourage that, you'll regret down the road.
Look over that hill. You people are the planners. (Lyall - the
reason we haven't had development is that we have been in an
economic decline and are just coming out of it now.)
• Dorothy Lyons - We can jointly work with border communities,
such as we've done with mutual aid, to put in sewer, etc.
The hearing closed at 9:05 p.m.
• Prince - Personally, I would like to think over what we've
heard tonight. I thought I had my mind made up but feel we're
back to square one. I would like to talk to people in town and
neighbors and find out how they feel about it.
• Michels - In our original plan, our idea was not to encourage
any development of residential and had it listed as post 1990,
LAKE ELMO PLAN. COM. MTG. - 9/12/83 Page 10
using it as a holding area and retaining it for future develop-
ment past 1990. Why did we bother to change it? (Prince - can
we say to people, you can't build now and have to come back after
1990?) No, you have to do it through some other means. Section
32 has been sitting there for years waiting for commercial
development and we haven't seen it; then we get in an uproar
because we say we're going to control it a little bit around the
intersections.
• Joel Solomon - Lake Elmo's image today all over the Metro area
is no growth. (Prince - But I sure hear a lot of people in town
saying they don't want growth.) (Michels - It's probably 50:50,
but the controlling vote has always been conservative.)
• Lyall - In the last 3 years, we haven't had many people coming
in here to develop commercial or residential property. (Joel
Solomon - it's because of Lake Elmo's image to discourage any
kind of growth.) Tonight people are here because a change in
our plan is being presented; I believe it's a gross misconception
that Lake Elmo has been negative in the last 2 or 3 years.
• Michels - What has occured on Highway 12 in Woodbury? Nothing.
(Moe - Woodbury all along Highway 12 is zoned industrial.)
• Joel Solomon - Woodbury solicits development of property.
(Lyall - we may be remiss in soliciting, but we're here to
listen to ideas.)
• Prince - We have had enough discussion tonight; we now have to
think it over and discuss it with people in town. It'll be put
on the 9/26/83 agenda for more discussion, not necessarily a
decision. Things required for Met Council have been done and
this is extra and something we initiated.
BREAK - 9:14 to 9:25. (Moe left at 9:14 p.m.)
3. CITY CODE, SECTION 502.090, Moving Buildings into City -
• Pat Klaers - City Attorney said that an addition to the Code
that "the City can require, as a condition of the permit, that
the applicant must live in the moved structure" would be
unreasonable. He felt we should strictly enforce what we have.
4. WHITTAKER
A. Public Hearing - M/S/P Michels/Nazarian to hold a
public hearing September 26 at 7:45 p.m. to discuss Steve Potts'
request to subdivide 30 acres into 2 lots on 43rd Street.
(Carried 7-0)
B. Code Books - are to be brought in for update if not
already done so.
LAKE ELMO PLAN. COM. MTG. - 9/12/83 Page 11
5. FAREWELL CELEBRATION - Prince invited Commissioners to an
informal farewell gathering for the two secretaries leaving on
Friday, September 30, from 2:30 - 4:30 p.m. at the City Hall.
6. OTHER
A. Hearing Tonight
s Michels - they talked about our negative attitude or
reputation. I think we have so many water problems here that
creates a negative reputation. (It was suggested that Marine -
Big Carnelian also has problems.) (Lundquist - Maplewood for
over ten years has required that any developer has to arrange for
his own water runoff.) (Whittaker - You're right, that's a
problem that has to be resolved.)
• Lyall - Regarding what Dorothy Lyons said, why should we be
doing anything with Regional Park since now it's raw land.
(Whittaker - sewer plan is going to come in as they develop
public facilities. They have State parks all over the state
without one line of sewer in them.)
B. Home Occupations
O Michels - I read in the paper where in Chicago operating a home
computer in a residential area runs contrary to zoning laws.
(Whittaker - Our home occupation ordinance covers that; if a
business is run by members of the immediate family, is run
entirely within the home, and there are so many parking spaces,
it is okay.)
The meeting adjourned around 10:00 p.m.
Submitted by:
Ilene Johnson, Acting Secretary
Additional couments made by Dorothy Lyons at the 9/12/83
Planning Commission Meeting:
Page 8 - Paragraph 4 - The Commission members should attend
the Council Budget meetings and have an input so that taxes
can be kept down. Don't want to see Lake Elmo end up like
area around Rosedale where poor planning resulted in poor street
design or Richfield where, because of poor planning and lack
of selective commercial, the only business desiring to locate
there was trucking.
Page 8 - Paragraph 7 - Want to live here and see my family
continue to live here. Do not want to be pushed out because
of high taxes. If things continue as they are cannot afford
to stay. Questions the logic of having only one access to the
Regional Park. Ridiculous to say commercial is not feasible
without nearby police and fire protection since the entrance
to the regional park is only a mile north of I-94 in a non -
convenient emergency service area. This area (along 1-94 in
Sec. 32) has not developed before because of the indecision
surrounding the location of I-94. Lake Elmo did not have a
say on the highway location - the legislature made this decision.
Why change the planned zoning to RR when in the future the City
may desire Business in this area - Keep the General Business
plan as it is today in the Comp Plan. Planned GB in the past
for the future because it is in the Comp Plan.
+ CITY Of
LAKE
ELMO
City of Lake Elmo
777-5510
+ + 3880 Laverne Avenue North / Lake Elmo, Minnesota 55042
AGENDA
PLANNING COMMISSION
September 12, 1983
7:30 P.M.--- Meeting convenes
1. Minutes, August 22, 1983
7:45 P.M.--- 2. Public Hearing, I-94 Comprehensive
Plan proposed changes
8:20 P.M.--- 3. City Code - Section 502.090,
Moving Buildings into City (per
request from last Planning
Commission meeting).
- CITY OF
i
ELMO
City of Lake Elmo
777-5510
3880 Laverne Avenue North / Lake Elmo, Minnesota 55042
MEMO
September 8, 1983
TO: Planning Commission Members
FROM: Pat Klaers, City Administrator
RE: September 12, 1983 Planning Commission Agenda
1. MINUTES: The August 22, 1983, Planning Commission minutes
have been previously sent out to all members and therefore
is not included in this packet.
2. PUBLIC HEARING - I-94 COMPREHENSIVE PLAN PROPOSED CHANGES:
City Planner, Rob Chelseth, will not be attending this
meeting as he will be out of town on other business. These
proposed changes along 1-94 was discussed at the last Plann-
ing Commission meeting and there was a consensus that the
presented changes and map were acceptable with some very
minor alterations. Attached is a 8-24 memo from Rob and
the 1-94 material that incorporates these minor changes.
I ran this concept by the City Council at the 9-6 meeting
and they generally agreed with the planned changes. How-
ever, there was a request that this I-94 plan not closed the
door on the possiblility of a future development obtaining
municipal services (sewer and water) from Woodbury. I be-
lieve that the proposed changes leave this option open.
3. MOVING BUILDINGS INTO CITY: Toward the end of the last
Planning Commission meeting there was a brief informal (not
included in the minutes) discussion on this topic. The at-
tached section 501.090 of the City Code address this issue.
I was requested to ask the City Attorney if "the City can
require, as a condition of the permit, that the applicant
must live in the moved structure". I discussed this section
of the Code with the City Attorney and he felt this would
not be a reasonable condition as part of issuing a permit.
He further indicated that the problem is not with the Code
but with the enforcement of the Code. Please review this
section of the Code and I think that you will find that the
Code offers enough protection for the City.
4. OTHER INFORMATION:
A. JOINT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING WITH THE CITY OF OAKDALE:
At the 9-6 City Council meeting I provided the Council
with some background information about these meetings.
They approved the use of our Consultants (City Engineer
and City Planner) for these meetings.
MEMp - continued September 8, 1983
The next joint Planning Commission meeting
is scheduled for September 29, 1983 at 7:30P.M.,
at the Oakdale City Hall, 1584 Hadley Ave. North.
B. NEUDAHL PRELIMINARY PLAT: At the 9-6 City Council
meeting the Council approved this preliminary plat.
C. OTHER COMPREHENSIVE PLAN CHANGES: At the 9-6 City
Council meeting the Council officially adopted
the 12 acres and MUSA line changes. These items
were before the Planning Commission at the August
8, 1983 meeting and an update was given to you at
the 8-22 meeting.