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HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-24-85 PZMThe Planning Commission is an advisory body to the City Council. One of the Commission's functions is to hold public hearings and make recommendations to the City Council. The City Council makes all final decisions on these matters. Lake Elmo Ordinances require that certain documents and information be included in applications. The Planning Commission may postpone consideration of an application that is incomplete and may for other reasons postpone final action on an application. For each item, the Commission will receive reports prepared by the City Staff, open the hearing to the public, and discuss and act on the application. If you are aware of information that hasn't been discussed, please fill out a "Request to Appear Before the Planning Commission" slip; or, if you came late, raise your hand to be recognized. Comments that are pertinent are appreciated. 7:00 p.m. 7:15 p.m. 8:30 p.m. AGENDA LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 24, 1985 Meeting Convenes 1. Minutes: June 10, 1985 2. Public Hearing for proposed Overlay District and Comp. Plan amendment along I-94 corridor. 3. Presentation by Sam Emerson anad Associates for a proposed golf course and homes in Sections 33 and 34 (property currently owned by Dayton/Hudson Corporation). 4. Sign Ordinance - Discussion Fred Nazarian and Carol Kuettner 5. Work Plan 2KDA ENGINEERS ARCHITECTS PLANNERS January 11, 1985 Mr. Pat Klaers City Administrator PO Box J Lake Elmo, Minnesota 55042 Re: Interstate Corridor Overlay District Lake Elmo, Minnesota Commission No. 7113-85 Dear Mr. Klaers: TOLTZ, KING, DUVALL, ANDERSON AND ASSOCIATES, INCORPORATED 2500 AMERICAN NATIONAL BANK BUILDING SAINT PAUL, MINNESOTA 55101 512/292-4400 We have reviewed the Clty Planner's recommendation dated November 26, 1984 regarding land use plans and zoning for the 1-94 corridor. We feel it would be appropriate to comment on the sewer discharge limitations found in "Minimum District Requirements - Interim Uses". We feel limiting sewage discharge to one SAC unit Is too restrictive. A SAC unit, being defined as 274 gallons per day, is derived from the average Twin Cities' household size of 3.65 persons each generating 75 gallons of sewage per day. The figure of 274 gpd Is useful for talking about average household sewage generation, but should not be used as a maximum sewage flow. The present Clty Code and Septic System Ordinance do not place limitations on the maximum amount of sewage flow as long as the site can provide area sufficient for two dralnfleld sites. A large family on a 1-1/2 acre lot in an R-1 zone could generate over 1,000 gpd of sewage daily (4 SAC units), We are sure that the City does not intend to restrict land use on a 10-acre lot to Tess than the equivalent of a single family home. Area sufficient for sewage treatment is not a limiting factor on a 10-acre lot. We suggest that It may be more reasonable to allow between 4 and 8 SAC units (1,000-2,000 gpd) per 10 acres. This would allow uses similar to the Brookvlew II office building. The requirement for two separate and distinct dralnfleld sites Is found In all zoning districts and will remain in effect In the Interstate Corridor Overlay District. Sincerely yours, TOLTZ, KING, DUVALL, ANDERSON AND ASSOCIATES, INCORPORATED June 20, 1985 To: Planning Commission Members From: Marilyn Banister, Acting City Clerk Re: Planning Commission Memo for June 24, 1985 1. Attached for your consideration are the June 10, 1985 Planning Commission minutes. 2. For background information for the I-94 Overlay District public hearing, attached is the memo dated November 26, 1985 from the City Planner, a memo from the City Engineer dated January 11, 1985, and a list of those notified of this public hearing. The City Planner will be present at this public hearing to answer questions from the Commission and/or citizens. 3. Sam Emerson asked to appear before the Planning Commission to present a very preliminary concept plan for a golf course, about 70 homes, a horse boarding center, tennis courts, etc., on the property currently owned by the Dayton/Hudson Corporation in Sections 33 and 34. As stated above, these plans are in the very early stages and Mr. Emerson felt it would assist him if he could make this presentation and get a feeling on how the Planning Commission feels about a proposal of this nature. There are many steps and reviews that this project must go thru before it becomes a reality, and will be before the Planning Commision again as things progress. 4. Fred Nazarian and Carol Kuettner have met and discussed the existing sign ordinance. They will make a presentation to the Commission on this issue. Fred will also be discussing an existing advertising sign along Highway 5 in the R1 district. 5. The Commission may want to chose another item from the Work Plan for further discussion. In the meantime, the office staff will keep you informed on the "update" items from the Work Plan as they become available. LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES June 10, 1985 Chairperson Nazarian called the meeting to order at 7:06 in the Council chambers. Present: Schultz, Lyall, Prince, Kuettner, Graves, Lang, Novak, and (Moe arrived 7:15). Absent: Lundquist, Johnston 1. Minutes: April 22, 1985 and May 28, 1985 M/S/P Prince/Graves - to approve the minutes of the April 22, 1985 Planning Commission meeting (Motion carried 7-0-1 <Schiltz>) M/S/P Kuettner/Schiltz - to approve the minutes of the May 28, 1985 Planning Commission meeting. This was an unofficial meeting as a quorum of Planning Commission members were not present. Chairperson Nazarian reminded the members to call city hall if they could not make the Planning Commission meetings. (Motion carried 4-0-4 <Prince, Lyall, Graves, Lang>) 2. Presentation by Hecla, Inc.; Site and Building Plan Review for Boarding Care Home for Mentally Ill Adults. Jack Hodgson, Program Director for Hecla, presented a site plan to the Planning Commission and referred to a letter written to the Commission by City Engineer, Larry Bohrer. Hecla, Inc. is proposing to construct a six -bedroom boarding care facility having up to 15 residents on Lot 3, Block 1, Brookman Addition. The proposed front of the house will have some brick wainscoting to the bottom of the windows. A concern of Prince was that the home -like building was going in a commercial zone and, if in the future the home would be sold, would it be possible to convert to offices. Interior plans were shown and Hodgson stated their architect said it could be modified into office space and support businesses. Hodgson felt it was somewhat in the flavor of the community because in the business district there are businesses in residential type facilities. Chairperson Nazarian discussed the four sections of the City Code that the City Engineer's letter reviewed and they were: parking, site plan review, public water system, and individual sewer system. In terms of need Hecla would only need about five parking spaces, seven are identified on the map, but designed it for nine available parking spots. Parking spaces would be broken down as follows: 1 van, 4 staff, 2 residents, 1 visitor, and this would be the maximum number that they would see at one time. There is a formal landscaping plan, listing items, sizes, and frequencies. Hugh Madson - questionned if there would be adequate parking space for buisness use. Under other commercial uses, there should be one parking space for every 200 square feet of gross floor area which would be fifteen parking spaces. LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES JUNE 10, 1985 Page 2 Del Sands - do not need that many parking spots, but willing to put in as many parking spots as needed to conform to the code. Kelly Brookman - object to it being home -like instead of a commercial building that would fit with Brookfield II. The reason they moved out here is to get away from the home -like buildings and to make this a high class commercial development for the City. He heard comments that the Real Estate home -like building presently in this development was a mistake, and this mistake should not be made again. Del Sand - This is Hecla's sixth group home in Minnesota. Their first home in New Ulm was going to be put in a residential area, but it was not allowed. We are not talking about a single family dwelling, but more like an apartment building. Boarding care homes are permitted in the general boarding zone according to the Lake Elmo City code, and the code does not dictate what type of building must be constructed. The program is designed to get people back into the community and experiencing positive experiences. It should be designed as a home to teach independent living or training. About 100 percent of the people staying there would be from Washington County. In response to a question by Brookman about why the home was denied by Oakdale, where there is land available adjacent to Human Services, Mr. Hodgson replied that there was no application made in Oakdale. We made contact with many different areas in Washington County and selected this site because it met all the zoning requirements. Kelly Brookman - If these people have problems, they should be able to be trained and survive in an apartment building as well as in a single family dwelling. Scott McDonald, representing Lauson, Raleigh, and Marshall stated it is an allowed use because it is a nursing care facility or boarding care facility, however he questionned the definition of the allowed use of a nursing care facility. Nursing facilities are usually commercial looking buildings like Maple Manor and not a six -bedroom home. Are the applied standards for landscaping the same as what was used for Brookfield I and II. Rick Bachman, WCCS - There site is more than adequate managers or social workers are coming from Stillwater Oakdale. is a need for the facility, and this It is close to a bus line, the case that will be involved in supervising , and the day treatment program is in Hugh Madson - He does not believe that a home -like building versus a commercial building is necessary because his past experience had been educating emotionally handicapped in commercial buildings with internally built home -like settings. His concern is also that this building will only be a few 100 feet from the school ground and questions the care and custody of these people during the day. Chairperson Nazarian said the Planning Commission was addressing the site plan, not whether or not this proposed application fits LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES JUNE 10, 1985 Page 3 in this zone. Other questions not concerning this should be addressed to the City Council. There will be educational meetings held in Lake Elmo to address these questions. Del Sand - The state has approved this site. The four licensing departments are Human Services, local building people, state building people, and the fire marshall's office. The local Building Inspector and the City Engineer have inspected the site and the state has given approval to start building. Mary Smith will visit the facility after it has been built and will check the facility to see if it is in compliance with the Rule 36 code. Carol Kuettner asked if there was a possibility of some kind of a compromise for esthectic purposes. Sands commented that he wants the facility to look like a house, but if there are some things that are not cost prohibitive they would be willing to look at anything responsive to the needs and desires of the community because they plan on being here a long time. The reason the facility was designed as a house is that they want it to be a normalizing environment. Also, as a rule of thumb, it is cheaper per square foot to build a home than a commercial building. Scott McDonald asked if they would have to go through a variance procedure to obtain the required parking places. Nazarian will get back to the City Engineer to find out why he recommended a minimum of eight parking places as opposed to fifteen. Dave Loos and his partners would be agreeable if this building was entirely faced in brick and had a mansard roofline and all the windows were of a uniform size. This way it would appear like a commercial building and the inside could be worked out as a residential type atmosphere. He questions the outside stairway in the rear for fire purposes making it look residential. Del Sands commented he would be willing to have a mansard roof and make the entire home brick if that makes the big difference. They don't want it to drag on because they have state grant monies available and don't want to jeoparidize loosing them. Nazarian suggested that the two groups meet during a short break and see if they can come up with a compromise. Scott McDonald stated the proposed changes discussed were structural changes such as to brick up the entire exterior of the house, flipflopping the garage, constructing a mansard roof and spreading out the windows to make it look like office windows instead of a picture window. The only way to monitor this is if they would agree to provide the final plans when the changes are made. Del Sands said they would provide the plans for review as long as it would cause them no delay. They will brick up the entire building, turn the whole house the other direction and change the roofline. They would like to keep eight parking spots as they had worked out with the City Engineer and will show an area that they will turn into parking. With these changes being acceptable, they would like the Commission to recommend the City Council meet earlier than July 2nd, because they have a construction crew ready to start and they might loose them. LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES JUNE 10, 1985 Page 4 Consensus is that the informational meeting on June 18 will be a benefit to Hecla and the Planning Commission will give the Council their recommendation. The estimated cost of this project will be $160,000 and the two percent aspect for landscaping is applicable. Nazarian clarrified that there is no requirement in our ordinances for a building in a commercial zone to look commercial. The Planning Commission cannot rule on how this works, so what has been arrived at is a compromise between the two interested groups. The plans will be available at the City Council meeting for examination if the architect can have them ready. They could show where the additional proposed parking will be located. M/S/P Graves/Lyall - to recommend approval for the proposed boarding care facility based on the City Engineer's recommendations with the exception of the proposed additional parking spaces being shown on the site plan. (Motion carried 7-1<Novak>-Novak stated his reasons for voting against this proposal are because of population density, home in commercial area, subsequent use if fails and esthetics should be uniform). 3. Signs (Work Plan Item 18) There was discussion that the sign ordinance should not be changed except for the Highway Overlay District. After reviewing the Woodbury Zoning Ordinance, Graves and Kuettner like their sign definitions. One of the questions that came up that there was no defintion or distinction drawn between small election campaign signs that could be nailed onto a telephone pole and big signs that advertise McDonalds. The number of signs if put 3,000 feet from another sign would probably make it less than eight signs within the concerned five miles. Consensus was that they would like to adopt the Woodbury Sign Ordinance, but should have some direction on how to clean out and insert what is necessary. Nazarian would like to be prepared before 94 gets going, and people come in for commercial designation for their property. Carol Kuettner and Fred Nazarian will be on a sign subcommittee and will meet at Nazarian's home at 1:00 on Saturday, June 15, 1985, to review the sign ordinance. 4. General Discussion: 1985 Work Plan Traffic Control on Highway 5 and CSAH 17 There was discussion on the speed sign, traffic light or some kind of traffic control on Highway 5 and CSAH 17 near the school. M/S/P Prince/Graves - Based upon the discussion with the Mn/DOT Engineer, to recommend a school speed zone sign with a flashing yellow light at both east and west approaches of the school and some traffic contol at the corner of Highway 5 with the easterly intersection of Cty 17 and to ask the City Council to act upon this in July in order to have the school speed zone in effect when school starts. (Motion carried 8:0) LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES JUNE 10, 1985 Page 5 Landfill Water System Update Larry Bohrer will meet with Ramsey and Washington County on June 31, 1985; therefore, he will not be able to report back to the City Council until the first meeting in July. 509 Watershed 509 Plan Update The 509 advisory committee will be meeting to comment on the present program that is being held up by the Washington County Board because some of the communities are reluctant to approve it on the basis of using the ad valorem tax. Index for Code Book The index for the code book will be completed by Mary on the computer. 5. Update on 6/24/85 Planning Commission Public Hearing for I-94 Comprehensive Plan and Zoning Code Amendment. Nazarian informed the commission that Rob Chelseth and Larry Bohrer will be present at the 6/24/85 public hearing on the interstate corridor overlay district. The SAC unit limit will be one item that will be discussed and Nazarian encourages everyone to attend. 6. Other A complaint about the Regional Park was brought up by Don Moe regarding the water and the limited sanitary facilities. Dan Novak expressed interest in attending a Planning Commission seminar. A suggestion was brought up by Kuettner that the Planning Commission members get together with the City Council and have an eight hour seminar at the cost of $300. Nazarian would like a memo to the City Council asking them if they could have a seminar put on by the government training institute for all of the Council and Planning Commission at a mutual date if they agree to put it on at a cost of $300. Interest was shown in basic planning procedures and zoning laws. M/S/P Graves/Moe - to adjourn the meeting at 9:28 p.m. (Motion carried 8-0)