HomeMy WebLinkAbout12-9-85 PZMPPR V
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
DECEMBER 9, 1985
Chairman Nazarian called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m. in the
City Council Chambers. Present: Prince, Moe, Novak, Martens,
Bucheck (arrived 7:38), Lundquist, Graves, City Administrator
Overby, and City Planner Chelseth (arrived 7:45). Absent: Lyall,
Schiltz, Lang.
1. Minutes - November 12, 1985
M/S/P Moe/Prince - to approve the minutes of the November 12, 1985
Planning Commission meeting as presented. (Motion carried
5-0-2<Abstain: Graves, Martens›).
2. Annual Planning Institute - Report by those who attended.
Don Moe - The Planning Commission should be advised of any new
changes in the state law that has to do with buildings or
accessory buildings.
Dan Novak - Access on a major thoroughfare is a problem that
should not be permitted. "Spot" development will push sewer if
there are any problems. City should not duplicate plans that has
a tendency to loosen the rural character and this may be happening
with regard to signs. Council and its Commission often times lack
resolve in following issues. A major problem is not enforcing
plans. Be careful in regulating people in their expression. You
cannot unnecessarily burden fundamental rights. Make sure your
ordinances are clear and everyone understands these rules. State
has mandated that child care and handicapped institutions have the
same rights as single families. Subdivision rules should be
consistent with zoning regulations. If a poor design is permitted
by our code you should have a paragraph in your code that allows
you to negotiate a poor plan. No private streets should be
allowed. To deny a subdivision or plat it has to be by the book.
To deny a rezone it does not have to go by the book, but it can be
rejected for subjective reasons. A comment was made at the
meeting that if there is alot of rezoning done then something is
wrong. A good comprehensive plan should be put together and it
should be enforced.
3. County Road 19B
The City Council has asked the Planning Commission to discuss the
future land use and planning and development impacts. At the
November 19th City Council meeting it was discussed if the City
was interested in joining with the County on assessments to the
property owners adjacent to the road right-of-ways. The Council
could not see any benefit to the City to go along with this
process. The other alternative would be for the County to do it
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES DECEMBER 9, 1985 PAGE 2
on their own. The County would have to get permission from the
City to work this process under existing State law.
Prince - In regard to the 194 area, the Planning Commission had
hoped that any commercial development would be around interchanges
first. The commission would only be in favor of rezoning the area
around the interchange if someone were to come in with a
development at the interchange. Commission member Prince would be
adverse to rezoning any other part of that area for any use other
than what is currently there.
Graves - Agrees with Commission member Prince that they should not
undo any rezoning other than just around the intersection along
the same line as we did on County 15 and 13.
Tom Armstrong, 8291 15th St. N. - If you allow the County to
assess, that is what they are asking for here, you give
justification to the landowners for development because they have
suddenly been assessed for a road and they have a legal and a
moral right to use that. If they are not assessed for it, they
got a free road and it does not put an economic hardship on them
and have to develop it. This assessment will also set a
precedent.
Moe - For now he sees no benefit to the landowners.
Lundquist - In our 5-year plan there is no provision for sewer.
M/S/P Prince/Graves - to recommend to the City Council that they
respond to the request from the County by saying that they prefer
no assessments for County Road 19B because our comprehensive plan
indicates that we do not see any future residential or commercial
development in that area and do not see any available sewer in our
plan. (Motion carried 8-0).
4. Tartan Park - Use of Maintenance Road for Park Entrance.
Bucheck - This is right off of 20th and she was told that the
gravel road would be what they will eventually use and didn't know
if they were going to close the paved road, but they don't want
people using it because it cuts through the golf course. They
also feel it is dangerous because it is hilly and winding.
Prince - This is an item for the City Engineer to investigate and
report back with his comments.
5. Auto Unloading Facility in Oakdale
It was brought to the attention of the Planning Commission that
Oakdale has before them a concept plan from the Chicago and
Northwestern Transportation Company for a "Railroad Auto Unloading
Facility" which would be located south of Highway 5 and east of
Highway 694, north of Stillwater Boulevard and west of County Road
13B. The site would include the Unloading Facility, along with
some light industrial and office development proposed around the
perimeter.
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES DECEMBER 9, 1985 PAGE 3
Tom Armstrong - This would be all the land north of the railroad
tracks between Ideal over to 694 and then from the railroad tracks
to Highway 5. Joe Raleigh has 57 acres, and Joe had suggested
that Oakdale contact Armstrong to buy some land for ponding. If
the site goes in and they need an area for ponding, Armstrong has
12 acres to the south that he would sell, but this was never
discussed with him. They claimed the plans would observe the one
percent rule as to rate and volume of water and have a total of 61
acre feet of storage. Armstrong was told that this was sufficient
not only for the railroad site, but also would take care of some
of the Menards runoff and actually leave Lake Elmo in a better
condition than it is now. They have assessed the piece in Oakdale
at $29,000 for sewer trunk. This is for the oversizing of the
lift station that is down in Stillwater Blvd. and Ideal. The last
thing he heard is that this facility was going into Rosemount
where the City Council has already approved it on a 5-0 vote.
6.
Membership openings in January, 1986.
City Administrator Overby explained that according to our code
there are two criteria regarding how long you can stay on the
Planning Commission. Members shall be appointed by the City
Council for three year terms so that only one-third of the
appointments will expire on Decmber 31st of each year. No member
may serve more than two consecutive three-year terms unless the
average years of service for all Commission members is less than
four years. A member who has served two terms may be reappointed
by the City Council after a one year absence. At this point if
you use both criteria, Nazarian, Lundquist, Lyall are at the end
of their tenure. The average tenure is 3.7 years with nine voting
members.
Prince -
would be
Planning
terms.
She would like to recommend to the City Council that they
in favor of reappointment of Fred Nazarian to the
Commission because he has not filled out two -three year
Moe - At the last seminar, the subject was brought up about
reimbursement for gas mileage and found out that other City
Planning Commission members do get reimbursed for mileage.
M/No Second/F Moe/ - to recommend to the City Council to keep the
three members whose tenure is up until such time that they can be
replaced by new applicants. (Motion failed because of lack of a
second<Abstain: Novak -because he feels this is too political of an
issue›).
The attendance records show that Planning Commission member David
Lang has missed five meetings in a row and this would be
potentially a fourth member leaving the commission.
The Planning Commission requested City Administrator Overby to
contact Vicki Gifford, Howard Michels and Bob Drehrer who have
served on past Planning Commissions to see if they would be
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES DECEMBER 9, 1985 PAGE 4
interested in applying.
Chairman Nazarian suggested creating a position of Historian for
the Planning Commission in order to keep Bill Lundquist, but Bill
felt it was time for him to retire from the Commission.
Rob Chelseth suggested alternates be permanent and the outgoing
regular members be in reserve and called when needed.
"7. 1979 Comprehensive Plan
City Administrator Overby explained the four areas of concerns
leading to plan development that was given in a handout to the
Planning Commission members.
There was discussion on population growth and how the Metro
Council projections were derived. It was suggested that the local
development trend could be figured on the number of building
permits that have been issued each year. If you take the growth
line without Cimmarron it would be completely different. This
shows you the impact of what one project can have on the growth of
the City.
Novak - Could this figure be perceived as what the Metro Council
would like to see us have for population? City Administrator
Overby stated that there is more to it than forecasting growth.
Metro Council also wants to have a handle on who is going to get
funding for the upgrading of sewer systems already in place or
funding for new sewer systems. Funding for upgrading is their
first priority; new systems are second, and then only within the
MUSA Line.
City Planner Rob Chelseth referred to pages 77-79 in the 1979
Comprehensive Plan which refers to ranking issues by subject
matter. Not all issues are for a 5 year term and you might want
to -sort them before you rank them.
The following suggestions were made: Environmental problems
should be the number one consideration. Question cluster
development versus one house per 1 1/2 acre lots or 4 houses on 40
acres. You can scratch the 201 Program since it has been adopted.
You can combine 5a. busines and industrial development and
location with 7d. select appropriate or desired commercial uses.
Combine 4. alternative forms of managing growth and 6. zoning as a
method for managing growth. Should come up with interim uses for
between Agriculture and Residential. The City Engineer does a
good job with the 5 year road plan. The Capital Improvement Plan
should be looked at because this gives direction to the City
Administrator and the Planning Commission.
Under Environmental Planning, the surface water management plan
will be an issue. How much has been done in regard to economic
need. The surface water issue should be checked into to see if
it has been addressed properly. Under Planning Process, you need
to inform and include the public about the planning program. City
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES DECEMBER 9, 1985 PAGE 5
Administrator Overby suggested the idea of sending out a survey
postcard to the public for input on their five most important
issues.
M/S/P Graves/Moe - There will not be a Planning Commission meeting
on Monday, December 23, 1985. There will be a Joint Council and
Planning Commission Meeting on Monday, January 13, 1986. (Motion
carried 8-0).
M/S/P Moe/Graves - to adjourn the Planning Commission meeting at
10:38 p.m. (Motion carried 8-0).
The Planning Commission is an advisory body to the City
Council. One of the Commission's functions is to hold public
hearings and make recommendations to the City Council. The City
Council makes all final decisions on these matters.
Lake Elmo Ordinances require that certain documents and
information be included in applications. The Planning Commission
may postpone consideration of an application that is incomplete
and may for other reasons postpone final action on an application.
For each item, the Commission will receive reports
prepared by the City Staff, open the hearing to the public, and
discuss and act on the application. If you are aware of
information that hasn't been discussed, please fill out a "Request
to Appear Before the Planning Commission" slip; or, if you came
late, raise your hand to be recognized. Comments that are
pertinent are appreciated.
7:30 P.M.
AGENDA
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 9, 1985
MEETING CONVENES
1. Agenda
2. Minutes: November 12, 1985
3. Annual Planning Institute -
Report by those who attended.
4. County Road 19B - Discuss future land
use, planning and development impacts.
Prepare recommendation for City Council.
NOTE: See enclosed map of road right-of-way.
5. Tartan Park -
Use of Maintenance Road for park entrance.
6. Auto unloading facility in Oakdale.
7. Membership openings in January, 1986.
Solicit names of potential candidates.
8. 1979 Comprehensive Plan
A. Discuss background data summary.
B. Discuss Community Issues - Prepare new
ranking list for joint meeting of
Planning Commission and City Council
in January.
*Bring your copy of issues from the last
meeting.
9. Other
NOTE: Please plan on staying until 10:00 p.m. or later, due to
the amount of discussion that will be necessary.
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
NOVEMBER 12, 1985
Chairman Nazarian called the meeting to order at 7:38 p.m. in the
City Council Chambers. Present: Schiltz (departed 8:45 p.m.),
Novak, Prince, Lundquist, Moe (arrived at 7:42 p.m.), Bucheck,
City Administrator Overby and City Planner Rob Chelseth (arrived
8:43 p.m.). Absent: Lyall, Lang, Graves, and Martens.
1. Minutes: October 7, 1985
October 28, 1985
M/S/P Prince/Lundquist - to approve the Planning Commission
minutes of October 7, 1985 meeting as amended. (Motion carried
4-0-2<abstain: Schiltz, Bucheck>).
M/S/P Lundquist/Nazarian - to approve the Planning Commission
minutes of October 28, 1985 as presented. (Motion carried
3-0-4<abstain: Schiltz, Novak, Prince, Bucheck>).
2. Introduction was made of the new Planning Commission members
Allan R. Martens, 3099 Laverne Ct. and Ann Bucheck at 2301 Legion
Avenue N.
3. Final Plat Approval - Phase 2 of Tartan Meadows
In 1981, the plat of Tartan Meadows was approved along with plans
and specifications, but because of economic conditions, the owner,
Willard Morton, did not proceed. In 1983, Mr. Morton received
approval from the Council to develop the area in phases, citing
the continued economic slow down as preventing him from completing
the entire subdivision.
The first addition has been completed and now Mr. Morton has
submitted a final plat for the second addition. There are no
significant changes from the original 1981 plat; therefore, a new
preliminary plat is not required.
In Larry Bohrer's letter to the Planning Commission dated November
7, 1985, he states that a temporary cul-de-sac is required at the
west end of 12th Street to allow vehicles and snow plows to turn
around. A permanent easement will be required afor this
cul-•de-sac. If 12th Street is extended west in the future, this
cul-de-sac will be removed and the permanent easement vacated.
City Engineer Bohrer recommends that the final plat for Tartan
Meadows 2nd Addition be approved subject to the addition of the
permanent roadway easement as described above.
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES NOVEMBER 12, 1985 PAGE 2
Commission member Prince asked why could not the Cul-de-sac be
gravel instead of bituminous because it will be ripped off.
Administrator Overby will ask Larry Bohrer if this could be done.
M/S/P Schiltz/Moe - to recommend to the City Council that the
final plat for Tartan Meadows 2nd Addition be approved subject to
the addition of the permanent roadway easement as is recommended
by Larry Bohrer in his letter dated November 17, 1985. (Motion
carried 6-0-1<Bucheck>).
4. Revised Section 32 Land Use
Mr. Enright had suggested to add some light industrial west of
Helmo Avenue and qouth of the 45 acre parcel. There was
discussion on the difference between the Comprehensive Plan terms
and the Zoning Map terms. The attached map reflects the revised
terms and desired commercial area requested.
Commission member Novak voiced concern on this future land use
plan infringing on the marshy areas close by which have attracted
egrets.
M/S/P Prince/Moe - to recommend to the City Council to adopt the
Land Use Concept Plan -Section 32 and West 1/4 Section 33 with the
revised terms for the purpose of the engineering feasibility
study. (Motion carried 5-0-1<Bucheck>).
5. Comprehensive Plan Revisions
City Planner Robert Chelseth attended the Planning Commission
meeting to give needed direction and information for the new
Comprehensive Plan. Chelseth suggested they start with
discussions to develop and prioritize new land use and planning
issues based on 1985 and projected conditions through 1990. It
would be best to review and discuss the Comprehensive plan
section -by -section. The Met Council looks at land use components
in terms of demand for systems.
M/S/P Moe/Prince - to adjourn the Planning Commission meeting at
9:45 p.m. (Motion carried 6-0).
LAND L. .
SECTION 32 AND WEST 1/4 SECTION 33
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