HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-8-87 PZMLAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JUNE 8, 1987
Chairman DeLapp called the Planning Commission meeting to order at
7:30 p.m. in the City Council Chamberss. Present: DeLapp, Williams,
Bucheck, Reuther, Raleigh, Haacke, Simpson, Johnson, Hunt, Enes,
(arrived 8:30 p,.m.), and City Administrator Overby. Absent: Stevens
1. Agenda
M/S/P Bucheck/Haacke - to approve the June 8, 1987 Planning Commission
• agenda as presented. (Motion carried 9.0).
2. Minutes: May 4, 1987
M/S/P Haacke/Reuther - to approved the May 4, 1987 Planning Commision
minutes as amended (See page. 8-0-1<Abstain: Hunt›).
Minutes: May 11, 1987
M/S/P Reuther/Simpson - to approve the May 11, 1987 Planning
Commission minutes as amended. (See page 8-0-1<Abstain: Raleigh›).
t Minutes: May 18, 1987
AM/S/P Williams/Haacke - to approve the May 18, 1987 Planning
Commission minutes as presented. (Motion carried 6-0-3<Simpson,
Johnson, Bucheck>).
3. Upcoming Requests
June 22, 1987
7:45 p.m. PUBLIC HEARING: Preliminary Plat, Tartan Meadows 3rd
Addition
8:30 p.m. PUBLIC HEARING: Comprehensive Plan Amendment Request;
Concept Plan Review --Federal Land Company
Mixed Use/Unique Purpose PUD at C.S.A.H. 19 and I-94.
Commission member Williams requested that the information on this
request be sent to them as early as possible and hoped that the
Planning Commission would thoroughly look over this information before
the meeting.
Ed Gorman, White Hat Restaurant, Site and Plan Review
for a proposed addition.
Comprehensive Plan Revisions
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES JUNE 8, 1987 PAGE 2
4. PUBLIC HEARING: Preliminary Plat for Packard Park 2nd Addition;
Gene Peltier
Chairman DeLapp opened up the public hearing at 7:45 p.m. in the City
Council Chambers.
Because Ann Bucheck was an affected property owner, she excused
herself from the Planning Commission and went into the audience.
Gene Peltier has applied for an eight lot subdivision to be called
Packard Park Second Addition. Also shown was the concept plan for a
future Third Addition.
FINDINGS OF FACT:
1. That the easterly 27 acres of this 40 acre parcel was rezoned to
R-1 in 1985; therefore, the 14.5 acre Second Addition is
properly zoned.
2. That according to the Washington County Soil Survey, all of the
lots have at least one acre of land suitable for septic system
purposes and will have land sufficient for two separate
drainfield sites.
3. That all lots meet the 1.5 acre lot size requirement.
4. That all lots have at least 125 feet of road frontage,
as measured at the setback line.
5. A. Legion Avenue
That approximately 250 feet of Legion Avenue will be
constructed by the developer to provide access for the
development. This road would continue the rural street
section identical to Legion Avenue to the south.
Proposed street grades are within City Standards.
B. 24th Street
That this street is planned to be constructed as an
urban section in accordance with City Standards.
Street grades are also within City Standards. The
pavement is planned to end just west of 24th Street
Court for now and be extended as a through street
in the Third Addition.
C. 24th Street Court
That this is an urban design cul-de-sac. The design
and street grades meet City Standards. The ending
of the 24th Street pavement temporarily at the west
end of 24th Street Court will create a cul-de-sac in
excess of the 800 foot Code allowance. Section
401.380C, requires a road plan for the remainder of
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES JUNE 8, 1987 PAGE 3
the tract. The concept plan provided for the Third
Addition satisfies that requirement. Therefore,
City Engineer Bohrer feels the road can temporarily
exceed 800 feet because the concept plan shows it
will become a through street in the future.
6. That no drainage plan had been provided.
In City Engineer Bohrer's review of June 4, 1987, he recommended that
the preliminary plat not be approved until an adequate drainage plan
and runoff calculations are submitted to show that no additional
runoff shall leave the site due to the development.
I He further stated that additional runoff from this development will
occur because of the street surfacing and home construction.
Sometimes an argument is made that taking land out of row crops and
putting in large residential lawn areas will not create additional
runoff. This can be true for certain storms, but not all storms. A
long duration low intensity storm will not create runoff from row
i crops or lawns. But, any storm will create runoff from streets.
Therefore, ponding requirements should be enforced.
I Jean Durand, stated that in regard to Bohrer's comment that this area
1 should be developed now or the developer make arrangements with the
property owner to the south to enlarge the existing ponds to satisfy
1 the ponding requirements, if this is referring to her father's
property it is not for sale. Bruce Folz reponded that they can put
the pond on the Peltier property.
Don Durand, representing his father's property, asked how does the 1%
1 Rule affect his property? Shirley Durand, 2901 Lake Elmo Ave, asked
tVhat happens later, is there an obligation for ten years. Jean and
#ichard Durand stated that they were not flooded until Legion Avenue
Was put in.
'Ann Bucheck stated her concern on the water levels contributing to the
Droblem already there. There could be a Legion Pond created off of
hbth and one on 30th. She also addressed the 900 foot cul-de-sac
'Versus the 800 foot cul-de-sac as required by City code. She asked
the Planning Commission to not accept the plat because of no drainage
plan.
'Bruce Folz stated that they would do whatever the City Engineer wanted
done. Gene Peltier added that this would be one of the few chances to
put a road in going East and West.
Bob and Linda Stone, 2390 Legion Lane, askedwhy is the basement of a
house flooded? Theyet9 e—$ged.a. concern on any increased rate of water
running down hill.
Debra Wjlfong stated that with any more water, even with the 1% Rule,
iher home would be saturated.
Chris Lanners had talked to Bernie Meyer and he made the statement
that septic systems of people in Eden Park are all going into the
pond.
•
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LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES JUNE 8, 1987 PAGE 4
Chairman DeLapp closed the public hearing at 8:50 p.m.
M/S/F Raleigh/Hunt - to continue the public hearing at the June 22,
1987 Planning Commission meeting due to the absence of the drainage
plan and the City Engineer's comments on the plan. (Motion failed
3-6<Simpson, Reuther, DeLapp, Williams, Haacke, Johnson>).
David Johnson felt it was up to the City Engineer to tell them what
the calculations are based on the characater of the land for the
volume of the flow. He does not see any purpose served by leaving the
public hearing open, because we know what is being asked here --which
is to make sure that there is no increase in volume or rate in flow
because of problems there now. Johnson suggested recommending
approval based on the City Engineer telling them they can meet this
specification and disapprove the plat if they cannot.
Marge Williams suggested that rather than to continue the public
hearing would be to close the public hearing and to vote to not
approve the plat. The plat can be resubmitted with the proper data to
the City Council. She felt other issues should be considered by the
Planning Commission such as the 800 foot cul-de-sac. They can discuss
the scientific data as a fact that there is a 1% runoff, but in fact
there is a problem with water that might not be able to be met by
statistics. Williams expressed the concern about putting any kind of
density development in that area right now until something can be done
with that water, particularly on Durand's property. Another question
raised was if the plat does meet the 1% Rule, would the opinions of
the people change.
Lee Hunt would like the concerned citizens assured that they hear
exactly what is going on rather than approve or disapprove it. By
keeping a public hearing open we know that they will be back, and we
will then have the drainage plan so everyone can ask questions. Hunt
suggested that the City Engineer attend the next meeting.
M/S/P Williams/Raleigh - to table a recommendation on the Packard Park
Preliminary Plat until they receive a ponding plan from the developer
and the City Engineer's comments on the plan. (Motion carried
8-1<Johnson>).
David Johnson felt the Commission had the same concerns as the people
have, which is we don't want any increase rate or volume of water
going out on their property. We want assurances that, before this
project goes forward, they will meet that specification. With this
condition, the Commission can recommend the approval. He asked what
value is there in tabling?
Marge Williams responded that one of the things she learned at the
planning conference was whenever you give approval based on
contingencies, those contingencies are very seldom met, because you
are not able to police them. It is much better to have appropriate
outcome information.
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES JUNE 8, 1987 PAGE 5
5. Preapplication Sketch Plan --Tartan Meadows 3rd Addition,
Willard Morton
Willard Morton proposes to plat a 19-lot subdivision called Tartan
Meadows 3rd Addition. The 37.1 acre development is located at the
northeast corner of the intersection of Co. 17 and Co. 70. The land
is currently zoned R-1.
Carl Peterson, representing Willard Morton, stated that all lots meet
the minimum lot size, the sandy soil type found is good for septic
systems, and the three ponds on the site will meet the 1% Rule. A
drainage plan will be drawn and submitted for the public hearing.
Steve DeLapp stated that the ordinance requires road frontage of 125
feet not 115 feet as shown in the plan for Lots 6 and 12, Block 1.
The public hearing is scheduled for June 22, 1987.
6. Simple Lot Subdivision, 9345 31st Street, Jim Friedrich
This property is located south of the C&NW Railroad and southeast of
31st Street. Joe Kaiser owns a 6.6 acre parcel and Jim Friedrich owns
an adjacent 11.5 acre parcel. Both properties are zoned R-1. Mr.
Friedrich wishes to detach a 7.3 acre parcel from his property and
sell it to Mr. Kaiser to add it to his property. The result will be
that Mr. Friedrich will have 4.46 acres and Mr. Kaiser will have 13.69
acres. No variances are required for this lot division and the
subdivision should be granted with two conditions.
Background information was given in City Engineer Bohrer's letter
dated June 5, 1987. In 1985 Mr. Kaiser was granteda road frontage
variance to build on his existing parcel. A Developer's Agreement was
drawn up to proviude for a private road to be constructed to certain
standards across the Friedrich property which provides common access.
The Agreement also provided for an access easement across the north
and east lines of the Kaiser property for access to the rear of
Friedrich's parcel. Access to the rear of Friedrich's parcel was not
available from Friedrich's north parcel because of the pond
configuration. The private road is still needed but the access
easement is not, because Mr. Kaiser will now be the owner of the
southerly property.
Even though the Developer's Agreement was agreed to by the City and
Mr. Kaiser, we do not believe Mr. Kaiser ever signed the agreement.
Therefore, Bohrer suggests the simple lot division should be
conditioned on Mr. Kaiser signing the original agreement but the
access easement is no longer required.
M/S/P Williams/Enes - to recommend that the City Council approve the
simple lot subdivision for Jim Friedrich at 9345 31st Street subject
to the conditions of signing of the Developer's Agreement as stated in
City Engineer Bohrer's letter dated June 5, 1987. (Motion carried
9-0).
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES JUNE 8, 1987 PAGE 6
7. Metro Council Strategic Planning Process
The Metro Council has invited local governments to participate in
their strategic planning process. The Planning Commission members
will prioritize each issue and add new issue areas. These issues will
be put on the agenda for discussion at a later date.
Steve Raleigh felt that the Metro Council needed more visability and
they should have a direct liaison with the Metro Council. City
Administrator Overby suggested that they invite a Metro Council
representative to one of their meetings. Steve DeLapp suggested that
all commission members read the MDIF from the Metro Council.
8. Discussion of Public Meeting Process
Marge Williams reported on the two-day conference and one topic
discussed was the Marketing of Woodbury. Woodbury had decided to
develop so they spent $50,000 to hire a public relations firm to
market their community even though 1000 citizens stated at a public
meeting they were against this. Woodbury has managed to sell off all
the land east of 13, north of Valley Creek and west of 19 which is
approximately 1350 acres. They will put 7500 people in these 1350
acres in three years. While doing this they have managed to slip in
rank in taxes. They were 69 out of 95 communities and while they were
in the process of marketing and decided to extend their MUSA, their
tax rating went down to 63. As they develop, their taxes rise.
Another topic discussed was Tax Increment Financing and an example
given was the Hudson Industrial Park.
M/S/P Reuther/Hunt - to adjourn the Planning Commission meeting at
10:30 p.m. (Motion carried 9-0).
The Planning Commission is an advisory body to the City
Council. One of the Commission's functions is to hold public
hearings and make recommendations to the City Council. The City
Council makes all final decisions on these matters.
Lake Elmo Ordinances require that certain documents and
information be included in applications. The Planning Commission
may postpone consideration of an application that is incomplete
and may for other reasons postpone final action on an application.
For each item, the Commission will receive reports
prepared by the City Staff, open the hearing to the public, and
discuss and act on the application. If you are aware of
information that hasn't been discussed, please fill out a "Request
to Appear Before the Planning Commission" slip; or, if you came
late, raise your hand to be recognized. Comments that are
pertinent are appreciated.
AGENDA
LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION
JUNE 8, 1987
7:30 p.m. MEETING CONVENES
7:45 p.m.
8:15 p.m.
8:30 p.m.
8:45 p.m.
9:15 p.m.
1. Agenda
2. Minutes: May 4, 1987
May 11, 1987
May 18, 1987
3. Upcoming Requests
4. PUBLIC HEARING: Preliminary Plat for
Packard Park 2nd Addition; Gene Peltier
5. Preapplication Sketch Plan --Tartan Meadows
3rd Addition, Willard Morton
6. Simple Lot Subdivision, 9345 31st Street,
Jim Friedrich
7. Metro Council Strategic Planning Process
8. Discussion of Public Meeting Process
9. Other
10. Adjourn