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HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-10-02 PZMPlanning Commission Meeting AGENDA June 10, 2002, 7:00 p.m. 1. AGENDA 2. MINUTES — May 29, 2002 3. PRELIMINARY PLAT Lake Elmo Business Park — RECO Realty 4. 520 SITE PLAN Gorman's Restaurant — Ed Gorman 5. OTHER BUSINESS 6. JOINT MEETING City Council/Old Village Special Project Planning Commission Sidewalks and Streetscapes in the Old Village 10. - ADJOURN Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002; ( Pages 1 through 5, July 22, 2002 CITY OF LAKE ELMO OLD VILLAGE SPECIAL PROJECTS PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF JUNE 10, 2002 Planning Commission Chairman Tom Armstrong called the Planning Commission Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in Council Chambers. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Armstrong, Taylor, Deziel, Bunn, Sedro, Sessing, Berg, and Ptacek. Also present: City Council Members: Mayor Hunt, Rosemary Armstrong, Steve DeLapp, and Chuck Siedow; Old Village Special Projects Planning Commissioners: Wyn John, Jennifer Pelletier, David Herreid, and Todd Williams; City Planner, Charles Dillerud and Administrative Secretary, Kimberly Schaffel. AGENDA M/S Ptacek/Armstrong To accept the Agenda as presented. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. MINUTES The Minutes of May 29, 2002 were amended as follows. With regard to the Patrick Kinney/PJK Realty Variance Application, the Motions and Votes on page 3 should have read, "M/S Ptacek/Sedro To deny the variance application submitted by Patrick Kinney and PJK Realty based upon Findings in the Staff Report of April 3, 2002. VOTE: 3:4 (Deziel/Taylor/Bunn/Helwig) FAILED." "M/S Deziel/Taylor To approve the application, and instruct staff to prepare Findings in favor of granting this variance, and give them directly to the City Council. VOTE: 4:3 (Sedro/Ptacek/Armstrong) PASSED." Page 5, Paragraph 9: One mile away from this site is Westgate, a residential development. Page 6, Paragraph 8: He never anticinated whether properties adjacent to Interstate 94 would use this zoning. M/S Armstrong/Ptacek To accept the Minutes of May 29, 2002 as amended. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED PRELIMINARY PLAT: RECO, LAKE ELMO BUSINESS PARK Staff Report, City Planner, Charles Dillerud A Public Hearing was called to consider a Preliminary Plat to be known as Lake Elmo Business Park, by RECO Real Estate. Notice of Public Hearing was published in the Stillwater Gazette. Affected property owners were notified. This 28.5 acre site is located at the corner of Lake Elmo Avenue and Hudson Boulevard. The existing zoning is GB (General Business). A grading permit was sought and approved in the early 1980's for the southeast portion of the site. In 1999/2000, we had hearings on the Comprehensive Plan and the Land Use Plan classification for that area was discussed. Following those discussions, the applicant appealed to the Metropolitan Council to remain a commercial site. If the site remains classified RAD, we would rezone it within 9 months, and this plat would then be non -conforming. However, we have to acknowledge a preliminary plan submitted under GB. At this time, the zoning supports a plat of this type. We have no idea what the uses would be in this plat. There is a long list of acceptable uses to choose from. The preliminary plat shows seven lots and two outlots. The size and configuration of those lots meet standards of GB or LB. The outlots are located in the northwest and northeast corners of the plat. An Engineered Wetland System would serve all seven lots. The engineering of the wastewater system will be critical, based upon usage, when we get to the final plat. The northeast corner of the plat is to be used for stonnwater drainage to serve most of the site. Except for minor setback issues, the plat appears to be in compliance. 50 feet is the standard rear setback for each lot. That should be indicated on the plat as the Code dictates - at 50 feet. The County sent a letter saying they had no objections since the plat proposes no access to a County road. The plat designer made assumptions regarding street right-of-way. One portion of the plat seems to question whether or not the right-of-way is dedicated. Staff would like it dedicated on the final plat. i'I<<nninfi (; mnrission Mnmies nine 70. 2002 Approy^a: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002; II Pages 1 through 5, July 22, 2002 The City of Woodbury asked for a copy of the application materials. We sent them, and received no response. Valley Branch Watershed will not say much until the final plat is presented. The Applicant has not indicated the source of potable water. An Erosion Control Plan is required but was not submitted. The City Engineer requested some supplemental items be submitted; he would like a Traffic Study and Trip Generation Report. Traffic could be a problem on Hudson Boulevard at Lake Elmo or Manning Avenues. These items are not mandated but they may be required, and both the City Engineer and the City Planner recommend them. The Engineer recommended an island in the cul de sac. Other items recommended that should be required are the Declaration of Covenants to show how the wastewater treatment facility will be governed. A Landscape Plan should be applied here because the site is devoid of natural landscaping except for the southeast corner. An Erosion Control Plan will be needed. Trip generation must be based on something, so the possible uses for each of the sites will be necessary. The Planner recommnended tabling the application after the Public Hearing to request the recommended information. Commissioner Deziel Tabling would not inhibit their rights. Commissioner Sessing He asked the uses of properties north and east of the site. Citv Planner North is the golf driving range and there is one residence. The drive-in is east. Northeast is the Non-ag Low Impact Use in the AG Zone. Commissioner Bunn She asked if, at this early stage, we can reasonably request more information about types of businesses to use this site. City Planner It is reasonable because uses could be more intense than streets can accommodate. Commissioner Bunn She said the setbacks need to be modified to conform to the Code. - Dave Dupay, Surveyor, Folz, Freeman, & Dunav He did not think a Trip Study would be necessary because the entrance to the site is onto a service road. Setbacks indicated on the plat are building setbacks. If the Commission wants them on the preliminary plat he we will do it. Commissioner Deziel He asked if the septic system would be standard or a wetland system, and whether it must be placed at the northeast end of the site. Dave Dupav, Surveyor, Folz, Freeman. & Dunav Thebestsoilsarethem; itisthehighestatea He isnotsutewlethexitwouldbealatgedtainfieklorawedand system. The Chair opened the Public Hearing at 7:34 p.m. Jim Anderson, Homeowner He and his wife Linda own the house adjacent to the northwest corner of the proposed plat. Whatever is done Planning ITrnk,ioh 4ibmfes Mime 10. 1002 Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002; 1 Pages 1 through 5, July 22, 2002 on the site should be done correctly. He would like to know about the wastewater treatment because their home is immediately adjacent to it. If it does not smell, and works okay, he has no objection to it. He would like to know the types of businesses that would occupy the site, the quality of the buildings, how they would sit on the sites, and the tenants. How the site will be utilized impacts him and visitors to the area. There is already a lot of traffic there. The design and construction should be top-notch. Linda Anderson, Homeowner They live where traffic goes by. They frequently see accidents on the other side of the freeway. When the drive-in lets out there are many close calls. She would like to see a traffic study done for that area, and asked when it will be done. The Chair closed the Public Hearing at 7:37 p.m. Commissioner Deziel The Building Code requires high quality. If the wastewater system is located where it is indicated on the preliminary plat, The Andersons will have 320 feet of buffered open space. Commissioner Bunn She asked what type of traffic study would be done; whether it would study only the number of trips or if it would also address the impact. The City Engineer should look at cumulative impact. M/S Ptacek/Berg To table the application pending submission of supplemental information as recommended by the City Planner. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. SECTION 520 SITE PLAN FOR GORMAN'S RESTAURANT Staff Renort, City Planner, Charles Dillerud This 4.4 acre site remains as it was created in 1973. A proposed expansion in 1982 was reduced in scale because of the highway setback. Valley Branch Watershed suggested at the time that the parking lot expansion be excluded from the expansion plans. The wastewater treatment system was upgraded in 1991. Handicap accessibility was added in 1995. A sizable addition is now proposed. The addition at the rear would be the building that was moved onto the site. Decking will also be added. There is also a planned addition to the foyer. The site would be more formalized. Paving will be done at the rear of the restaurant for parking. They will raise the elevation there. The big mound of dirt, a bone of contention in the past, will be used to elevate the rear parking area. There will be a new stormwater drainage pond. There is room to add on to the present wastewater treatment facility. A tower and dormers will be added, and the addition will maintain the same roof line as the historic building being added. Wood removed from the area getting stone facing will be moved to the addition so the treatment looks the same throughout. The GB Zone has new exterior surfacing rules adopted 60 days ago by the City Council. This project is probably exempt since it increases building area less than 100%. They propose to use existing surfacing, and while the stone may not be to Code, it probably meets the intent. A substantial amount of paving is to be added to the existing parking lot. As proposed, the applicant would like to continue to have parking along Highway 5. That parking lot is right on the right-of-way. Setbacks for parking there are not met. The Twin Points' parking lot was permitted to remain, and no variance was granted for it. The Commission may treat this the same, deny the parking, or entertain a variance. A variance cannot be done tonight; there was no notice for a public hearing. Some landscape island areas are indicated on the Site Plan but the Planner has no idea of the Landscaping Plan for those islands. In lieu of setback for the front parking lot, Mr. Gorman has suggested he work out with Mn/DOT as to how to landscape in the right-of-way. The site is 200 square feet short of landscape island at the rear. Planain;t C`um.mr•si01 I<4iiuflC .t:un; 1 o. 2UO2 Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002; ( Pages 1 through 5, July 22, 2002 Surface water drainage is the number one issue in the Old Village. City Code says you shall not have more water leaving a site post -development than pre -development. The City Engineer has no surface water calculation for the new stormwater drainage pond to see if it can handle all the water that will be leaving the site. Also, is the capacity of the existing drainfield enough to handle future uses? Staff recommends approval subject to the conditions in the Staff Report, with drainage calculations confirmed by the City Engineer, and confirmation by a septic system designer that the existing system is of adequate size prior to the application being sent to the City Council. Staff would also like to see the Landscape Plan for the highway area and the restaurant. The Planner is not addressing the setback issue for parking on Highway 5. If it is determined that a variance is necessary, he would recommend tabling this application until then. Commissioner Bunn She asked if Mr. Gorman anticipates pedestrian access, sidewalks, or paths adjacent to the north parking area along the right of way. She asked the Planner if they were desired in the future, would those then be in the right-of-way or in the business setbacks. City Planner The ditch section on a big part of the highway prohibits it but this site could potentially take a trail. Commissioner Ptacek He asked if the speed limit has already slowed down there. City Planner It has but not much before there. Dave Herreid The drainage ditch running east of the site could use some work. With spring runoff, the retaining walls at this site are showing their age. Railroad ties are falling because erosion took a lot of it away. Ed Gorman, Owner He bought the restaurant in 1980. Erosion took away much of the parking lot and the retaining walls. Those will be refurbished. He will have the walking bridge refurbished. The pile of dirt will be used to raise the level of the parking lot at the rear of the site. Schiltgen field drains across the parking lot. He has a Civil Engineer and Linders working on a plan. He provided a detailed Landscape Plan but it is not attached to the Staff Report. Mn/DOT provided him with a list of plants that would be acceptable along the right-of-way. The City put in flowering crabs but half are dead due to salty conditions. Five in front of his restaurant are dead. They flowered on the field side. He has hired a septic system designer. His current dishwasher uses one gallon opposed to three gallons before. He is the only property owner around who ponds his water. Todd Williams His only concern is proximity of the drainage pond to the drainfield should it overflow. Ed Gorman There is a bean that will prevent that. This pond is also located away from the City drainfield. City Planner Groundwater migration is a function for the septic designer. It is a valid concern because we have a 201 system just to the south of this site. Ed Gorman It has to be ponded. lii^:.utlifi ilti>! ,luny i11.200?. Approve" • Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002; Pages 1 through 5, July 22, 2002 City Planner We may have to specify a pond lined with clay to keep water from migrating into either drainfield. Rosemary Armstrong The parking lot being composed entirely of asphalt results in a large amount of impervious surface. Ed Gorman That part of the parking lot is currently graveled. Rosemary Armstrong She said compacted gravel is not impervious. She asked if the drainfield is just his or the neighbor's too. Ed Gorman Gorman's only. Commissioner Berg He stated his preference would be to continue parking within the right-of-way because it is allowed for a similar site, and would allow for more flexibility with stormwater management. He hoped the City would have the opportunity to work with the applicant to deal with stormwater drainage issues which affect the Old Village. He also suggested constructing the required landscape island into a stormwater retention pond. Ed Gorman Yes, and then buffer it with landscaping. City Planner There is no provision in the Code for preserving a non -conforming parking setback situation. The Commission did the same for Twin Points. The ponds are in the south portion of the site to handle stormwater, while the north portion can have parking. The site is a sort of gateway to the Old Village. Commissioner Deziel He commended the applicant for preserving the old railroad building because of its historical significance. The applicant is integrating it well with the existing building. M/S Ptacek/Taylor To approve based on Findings in the Staff Report but add to Item 3 of conditions, "Submission of landscape plan and approval by Mn/DOT." VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. Chairman Armstrong A similar site was allowed to retain parking even when non -conforming to the setback. He asked what action would trigger modification of that setback. There appears to be no guiding in the Code. City Planner Non- conforming setbacks can even be increased in some cases, everything except parking setbacks is addressed by the City Code. Commissioner Ptacek We allowed some others like Lake Elmo Oil and Lake Elmo Repair to be right up to the right-of-way. Grandfathering grants some rights that we shouldn't take away. ADJOURN at 8:15 p.m. RECONVENE at 8:25 p.m. OLD VILLAGE SPECIAL PROJECTS PLANNING COMMISSION Staff Report. City Planner. Charles Dillerud The topic of tonight's meeting is Sidewalks and Streetscapes in the Old Village. The Old Village Special 1';annia$z Conn) Jun, ;0. 2002. Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002; Pages 1 through 5, July 22, 2002 Projects Planning Commission meets periodically, discussing the implementation of what Thorbeck designed for the City two years ago. We have concepts that we thought were a good idea, and included them in our Comprehensive Plan. The County will not participate with us. All we have is the City share of tax abatement which is $ 88,000 and going up by $50-60,000 each of the next eight years. A portion was originally allocated to the Old Village as backup to financing the water system improvements; the balance is dedicated to Old Village Improvements without specificity. The Council did not commit abatement to the water system financing plan recently approved. Right-of-way improvements to include drainage were the first order of business, The Commission made a recommendation to the City Council to hire an engineer to accomplish something like the Thorbeck plan. The Council decided not to go forward. The Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission requested this joint meeting to find out what the City Council wants them to do. Mayor Hunt Part of what was withheld was due to the Council's uncertainty about spending money on the water system. Councilmember DeLapp Lake Elmo is not getting and receiving what other cities get from the County with tax abatement. They subsidize their development. So we have to subsidize the Old Village. Maybe we can do a match for in -kind donations by residents. That might give it momentum. Commissioner Herreid As a business owner in the Old Village, he has been struggling with sidewalks and drainage for 10 years. The fire department siren goes off pointed at this building. The department is looking at whether it might make sense to place sirens throughout the City or sirens that turn. Anything presented by the Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission was never addressed by the City Council. Tabling the sidewalk stuff means the Council is not living up to their responsibility to the City's infrastructure. Councilmember DeLapp At Hamlet on Sunfish Lake, the residents raised the funds to add supplemental landscaping to their boulevards. They had drainage issues in those lakes. We helped them financially to accomplish those goals. Commissioner Herreid By addressing the infrastructure of the Old Village we are increasing its value. It is time to deal with the Village. This Commission is composed of individuals who want to be involved, and contribute their time. Do not ask them to be on committees then ignore everything they recommend. Councilmember Armstrong Stormwater money should not be used for this at all. City Planner Those stormwater monies are not intended for this type of work. Is this a stormwater issue or an aesthetic improvement issue? Councilmember Armstrong Sidewalks are a visible thing. The City has been subsidizing the Old Village for a long time. Most residents have separate water systems yet are paying for the Old Village system as well. The Council is not overlooking and abandoning the Old Village; it is not getting short-changed. Commissioner Williams This Commission has told the City Council for more than six months that we have the money; it is supposed to go to improvements for infrastructure. We are very unhappy that the Council has not acted on our request. Councilmember Armstrong The school district and County dropped out of tax abatement for Lake Elmo. Plannim*.t;onuniisioulone ill.2G112 Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002; ( ( Pages 1 through 5, July 22, 2002 Commissioner Williams We always knew what our portion of these projects would be. We are not speaking of millions of dollars. It is just a short distance - from Highway 5 to the railroad tracks, on both sides of Lake Elmo Avenue. Mayor Hunt There should be a better way to design sidewalks with curbs and gutters to be proactive, and help the ponding issue. City Planner Yes, with a little bit of design work, there may be other ways of addressing stormwater problems. Commissioner John There is frustration with the City Council among the members of the Old Village Commission. Maybe we can get some design studies, and organize the sidewalks. The City Council never communicated why the recommendation was turned down. Councilmember Siedow Sidewalks down by the post office and library are dangerous in the winter. In the Old Village, stormwater runoff is the most important thing. Water is ponding in his yard. This is a very bad problem in the Old Village since the drainage was dammed by the downstream field owner. Their must be a way to carry the water all the way through the City. Councilmember DeLapp, He supports any integral design plan incorporating sidewalks, road width, landscaping, and drainage. City Planner Councilmember Siedow's drainage situation is far beyond Lake Elmo Avenue. Solving that problem is not the same discussion. Stormwater is bigger than just the Old Village. Councilmember DeLaun He thinks they should be solved concurrently. Mayor Hunt He goes along with Councilmember DeLapp. He supports the design of the streetscape but is concerned about surface water runoff. The money the City has should be used to measure impacts and mitigations. That is why the City chose not to rebuild LaVerne Avenue. Wet basements and flooding are problems. The swale across from Schiltgen's property causes problems. We must figure out a solution to all of that. Sidewalks in the Old Village should not be that big an additional problem. He would like to look at an integrated plan. City Planner Is the City prepared to commit the necessary resources? Mayor Hunt Yes, then we can analyze the drainage separately or concurrently. The City is well -funded for surface water runoff. City Planner We may have other resources as well. Mayor Hunt The City is well -funded on surface water runoff. Councilmember Armstrong The first step is to have an engineer look at it. She thinks sidewalks are a big part of the stormwater problem, and should be last on the priority list. 1' fll in;; Co(niz I I011 kNuute. Juuc 10. 2002 ( Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002; ( Pages 1 through 5, July 22, 2002 Councilmember John He supports Councilmember Siedow. It is basic to the health, safety, and welfare of the City. Schiltgen filled his swale to flatten the land in order to plant it. We need to ask him to correct the problem. We need to look at where the swale used to be, and create a wetland or holding pond so the water will not backup on the berm. Then we need to look further away at Down's Lake. All of this should be done in combination. Councilmember Siedow Sidewalks are a small issue compared to runoff, especially considering the number of septic systems in this City. All this water running over the drainfields and going into our farms and our food is a serious concern. The City Council should really be working on it, and it should be a separate thing. Mayor Hunt We need to begin the preliminary work. Maybe we need piping around or through Schiltgen's property. TKDA should have some engineering information regarding this problem. He will vote to spend the money to get the consultant. If we can do the stormwater stuff at the same time, we will do that too. City Planner He will put this on the City Council agenda, and get a TKDA quote. He thought the Environmental Commission was charged to look at the stormwater problems. Commissioner Williams The problem has been bouncing around for at least 15 years. Finally the City has some money to work with. He encouraged the City Council to spend that money. Councilmember Siedow Health, safety, and welfare should be the priority. Mayor Hunt He believes it is appropriate to put that money into the budget because a new budget cycle is about to begin. Commissioner Berg Stormwater is not an Old Village issue. Down's Lake improvements were recently approved by the City Council. That is the tail end of the watershed; the beginning is Sunfish Ponds. We need to look at it in a broader context. Can old TKDA studies be found? We need to keep stormwater where it drops. City. Planner Ponds are east of Sunfish as you approach this direction. The water goes under Highway 5 when it rains hard. Commissioner Sedro She supports an integrated approach. Sidewalks are great but not a logical first step. She likes what she is hearing. Mayor Hunt We are talking about the whole streetscape design. City Planner The cost will be about $15-20,000 for just the design. City Planner Maybe $1-2 million, depending on if we do it in stages. Councilmember DeLann It will probably be proportionate to the design cost. Mayor Hunt He will vote to go ahead with the design and the stormwater issue. Planning (; on;Ninuic:. Juno i0.2u02 Approved: Pages 6 through 9, July 8, 2002; Pages 1 through 5, July 22, 2002 Joint Commission The Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission's opinion is that it appeared that all Council Members present were in agreement. OTHER BUSINESS City Planner The Met Council has sent us an answer to our Comp Plan; they will make the decision about it soon. The City Council will have a workshop on this tomorrow at 5 p.m. All available Commissioners are asked to attend. Councilmember DeLapn It is important to have ideas of what we have to do, the time we have, and what the sequence should be. Met Council is talking about a 1.5 billion dollar investment against the Comp Plan; it will be very hard for us to fight it financially. Woodbury was blown under by developers. Commissioner Taylor Will they make a decision on June 26? City Planner They will be in tough shape if they do not make a decision by August. Councilmember Delany Everything was in place over one year ago but they pretended it was not there. ADJOURN 9:04 p.m. Respectfully submitte Kimberly Schaffel Recording Secretary Ylanninn i;,,n€ n o„ aFinvie:, June 10.2002 q Approved: 7' ges 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 ( CITY OF LAKE ELMO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES JUNE 10, 2002 Planning Commission Chairman Tom Armstrong called the Planning Commission Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in Council Chambers. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Armstrong, Taylor, Deziel, Bunn, Sedro, Sessing, Berg, and Ptacek. Also present: City Council Members: Mayor Hunt, Rosemary Armstrong, Steve DeLapp, and Chuck Siedow; Old Village Special Projects Planning Commissioners: Wyn John, Jennifer Pelletier, David Herreid, and Todd Williams; City Planner, Charles Dillerud and Administrative Secretary, Kimberly Schaffel. AGENDA M/S Ptacek/Armstrong To accept the Agenda as presented. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. MINUTES The Minutes of May 29, 2002 were amended as follows. With regard to the Patrick Kinney/PJK Realty Variance Application, the Motions and Votes on page 3 should have read, "M/S Ptacek/Sedro To deny the variance application submitted by Patrick Kinney and PJK Realty based upon Findings in the Staff Report of April 3, 2002. VOTE: 3:4 (Deziel/Taylor/Bunn/Helwig) FAILED." "M/S Deziel/Taylor To approve the application, and instruct staff to prepare Findings in favor of granting this variance, and give them directly to the City Council. VOTE: 4:3 (Sedro/Ptacek/Armstrong) PASSED." Page 5, Paragraph 9: One mile away from this site is Westgate, a residential development. Page 6, Paragraph 8: He never anticinated whether properties adjacent to Interstate 94 would use this zoning. M/S Armstrong/Ptacek To accept the Minutes of May 29, 2002 as amended. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. PRELIMINARY PLAT: RECO, LAKE ELMO BUSINESS PARK Staff Renort, City Planner, Charles Dillerud A Public Hearing was called to consider a Preliminary Plat to be known as Lake Elmo Business Park, by RECO Real Estate. Notice of Public Hearing was published in the Stillwater Gazette. Affected property owners were notified. This 28.5 acre site is located at the corner of Lake Elmo Avenue and Hudson Boulevard. The existing zoning is GB (General Business). A grading permit was sought and approved in the early 1980's for the southeast portion of the site. In 1999/2000, we had hearings on the Comprehensive Plan and the Land Use Plan classification for that area was discussed. Following those discussions, the applicant appealed to the Metropolitan Council to remain a commercial site. If the site remains classified RAD, we would rezone it within 9 months, and this plat would then be non -conforming. however, we have to acknowledge a preliminary plan submitted under GB. At this time, the zoning supports a plat of this type. We have no idea what the uses would be in this plat. There is a long list of acceptable uses to choose from. The preliminary plat shows seven lots and two outlots. The size and configuration of those lots meet standards of GB or LB. The outlots are located in the northwest and northeast corners of the plat. An Engineered Wetland System would serve all seven lots. The engineering of the wastewater system will be critical, based upon usage, when we get to the final plat. The northeast corner of the plat is to be used for stormwater drainage to serve most of the site. Except for minor setback issues, the plat appears to be in compliance. 50 feet is the standard rear setback for each lot. That should be indicated on the plat as the Code dictates - at 50 feet. The County sent a letter saying they had no objections since the plat proposes no access to a County road. The plat designer made assumptions regarding street right-of-way. One portion of the plat seems to question whether or not the right-of-way is dedicated. Staff would like it dedicated on the final plat. The City of Woodbury asked for a copy of the application materials. We sent them, and received no response. Valley Branch Watershed will not say much until the final plat is presented. Fiauloit u:,m kr:,ier Fine l0..`.uo2 Approved: r 7,es 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 The Applicant has not indicated the source of potable water. An Erosion Control Plan is required but was not submitted. The City Engineer requested some supplemental items be submitted; he would like a Traffic Study and Trip Generation Report. Traffic could be a problem on Hudson Boulevard at Lake Elmo or Manning Avenues. These items are not mandated but they may be required, and both the City Engineer and the City Planner recommend them. The Engineer recommended an island in the cul de sac. Other items recommended that should be required are the Declaration of Covenants to show how the wastewater treatment facility will be governed. A Landscape Plan should be applied here because the site is devoid of natural landscaping except for the southeast corner. An Erosion Control Plan will be needed. Trip generation must be based on something, so the possible uses for each of the sites will be necessary. The Planner recommended tabling the application after the Public Hearing to request the recommended information. Commissioner Deziel Tabling would not inhibit their rights. Commissioner Sessinfl He asked the uses of properties north and east of the site. Citv Planner North is the golf driving range and there is one residence. The drive-in is east. Northeast is the Non-ag Low Impact Use in the AG Zone. Commissioner Bunn She asked if, at this early stage, we can reasonably request more information about types of businesses to use this site. Citv Planner It is reasonable because uses could be more intense than streets can accommodate. Commissioner Bunn She said the setbacks need to be modified to conform to the Code. Dave Dunav, Surveyor, Folz, Freeman, & Dunav He did not think a Trip Study would be necessary because the entrance to the site is onto a service road. Setbacks indicated on the plat are building setbacks. If the Commission wants them on the preliminary plat he we will do it. Commissioner Deziel He asked if the septic system would be standard or a wetland system, and whether it must be placed at the northeast end of the site. Dave Dunay. Surveyor, Folz. Freeman. & Dunav The bestsoilsarethee itisthehigliestatea He is not sue whether itwouldbealargedrainfieldorawetlaud system. The Chair opened the Public Hearing at 7:34 p.m. Jim Anderson. Homeowner He and his wife Linda own the house adjacent to the northwest corner of the proposed plat. Whatever is done on the site should be done correctly. He would like to know about the wastewater treatment because their home is immediately adjacent to it. If it does not smell, and works okay, he has no objection to it. He would like to know the types of businesses that would occupy the site, the quality of the buildings, how they would sit on the sites, and the tenants. How the site will be utilized impacts him and visitors to the area. There is already a lot of traffic there. The design and construction should be top-notch. PE.aninv t;on:n i'sion \•li:nary .i.nh;: Eil. 3:'0' :: Approved: P ';es 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 Linda Anderson, Homeowner They live where traffic goes by. They frequently see accidents on the other side of the freeway. When the drive-in lets out there are many close calls. She would like to see a traffic study done for that area, and asked when it will be done. The Chair closed the Public Hearing at 7:37 p.m. Commissioner Deziel The Building Code requires high quality. If the wastewater system is located where it is indicated on the preliminary plat, The Andersons will have 320 feet of buffered open space. Commissioner Bunn She asked what type of traffic study would be done; whether it would study only the number of trips or if it would also address the impact. The City Engineer should look at cumulative impact. M/S PtaceklBerg To table the application pending submission of supplemental information as recommended by the City Planner. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED SECTION 520 SITE PLAN FOR GORMAN'S RESTAURANT Staff Report, Citv Planner, Charles Dillerud This 4.4 acre site remains as it was created in 1973. A proposed expansion in 1982 was reduced in scale because of the highway setback. Valley Branch Watershed suggested at the time that the parking lot expansion be excluded from the expansion plans. The wastewater treatment system was upgraded in 1991. Handicap accessibility was added in 1995. A sizable addition is now proposed. The addition at the rear would be the building that was moved onto the site. Decking will also be added. There is also a planned addition to the foyer. The site would be more formalized. Paving will be done at the rear of the restaurant for parking. They will raise the elevation there. The big mound of dirt, a bone of contention in the past, will be used to elevate the rear parking area. There will be a new stormwater drainage pond. There is room to add on to the present wastewater treatment facility. A tower and dormers will be added, and the addition will maintain the same roof line as the historic building being added. Wood removed from the area getting stone facing will be moved to the addition so the treatment looks the same throughout. The GB Zone has new exterior surfacing rules adopted 60 days ago by the City Council. This project is probably exempt since it increases building area less than 100%. They propose to use existing surfacing, and while the stone may not be to Code, it probably meets the intent. A substantial amount of paving is to be added to the existing parking lot. As proposed, the applicant would like to continue to have parking along Highway 5. That parking lot is right on the right-of-way. Setbacks for parking there are not met. The Twin Points' parking lot was permitted to remain, and no variance was granted for it. The Commission may treat this the same, deny the parking, or entertain a variance. A variance cannot be done tonight; there was no notice for a public hearing. Some landscape island areas are indicated on the Site Plan but the Planner has no idea of the Landscaping Plan for those islands. In lieu of setback for the front parking lot, Mr. Gorman has suggested he work out with Mn/DOT as to how to landscape in the right-of-way. The site is 200 square feet short of landscape island at the rear. Surface water drainage is the number one issue in the Old Village. City Code says you shall not have more water leaving a site post -development than pre -development. The City Engineer has no surface water calculation for the new stormwater drainage pond to see if it can handle all the water that will be leaving the site. Also, is the capacity of the existing drainfield enough to handle future uses? Staff recommends approval subject to the conditions in the Staff Report, with drainage calculations confirmed by the City Engineer, and confirmation by a septic system designer that the existing system is of adequate size Plancihn [;,,nI 1i,>i<vt \l outc; I.t:: 10. '04}' 't Approved: T ?es 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 prior to the application being sel. ) the City Council. Staff would also like \. ,ee the Landscape Plan for the highway area and the restaurant. The Planner is not addressing the setback issue for parking on Highway 5. If it is determined that a variance is necessary, he would recommend tabling this application until then. Commissioner Bunn She asked if Mr. Gorman anticipates pedestrian access, sidewalks, or paths adjacent to the north parking area along the right of way. She asked the Planner if they were desired in the future, would those then be in the right-of-way or in the business setbacks. City Planner The ditch section on a big part of the highway prohibits it but this site could potentially take a trail. Commissioner Ptacek He asked if the speed limit has already slowed down there. City Planner It has but not much before there. Dave Herreid The drainage ditch running east of the site could use some work. With spring runoff, the retaining walls at this site are showing their age. Railroad ties are falling because erosion took a lot of it away. Ed Gorman, Owner He bought the restaurant in 1980. Erosion took away much of the parking lot and the retaining walls. Those will be refurbished. He will have the walking bridge refurbished. The pile of dirt will be used to raise the level of the parking lot at the rear of the site. Schiltgen field drains across the parking lot. He has a Civil Engineer and Linders working on a plan. He provided a detailed Landscape Plan but it is not attached to the Staff Report. Mn/DOT provided him with a list of plants that would be acceptable along the right-of-way. The City put in flowering crabs but half are dead due to salty conditions. Five in front of his restaurant are dead. They flowered on the field side. He has hired a septic system designer. His current dishwasher uses one gallon opposed to three gallons before. He is the only property owner around who ponds his water. Todd Williams His only concern is proximity of the drainage pond to the drainfield should it overflow. Ed Gorman There is a berm that will prevent that. This pond is also located away from the City drainfield. Citv Planner Groundwater migration is a function for the septic designer. It is a valid concern because we have a 201 system just to the south of this site. Ed Gorman It has to be ponded. Citv Planner We may have to specify a pond lined with clay to keep water from migrating into either drainfield. Rosemary Armstrong The parking lot being composed entirely of asphalt results in a large amount of impervious surface. Ed Gorman That part of the parking lot is currently graveled. 11,Mit111, ?O Rosemary Armstrong She said compacted gravel is not impervious. She asked if the drainfield is just his or the neighbor's too. Approved: r ' es 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 Ed Gorman Gorman's only. Commissioner Berg He stated his preference would be to continue parking within the right-of-way because it is allowed for a similar site, and would allow for more flexibility with stormwater management. He hoped the City would have the opportunity to work with the applicant to deal with stormwater drainage issues which affect the Old Village. He also suggested constructing the required landscape island into a stormwater retention pond. Ed Gorman Yes, and then buffer it with landscaping. City Planner There is no provision in the Code for preserving a non -conforming parking setback situation. The Commission did the same for Twin Points. The ponds are in the south portion of the site to handle stonnwater, while the north portion can have parking. The site is a sort of gateway to the Old Village. Commissioner Deziel He commended the applicant for preserving the old railroad building because of its historical significance. The applicant is integrating it well with the existing building. M/S Ptacek/Taylor To approve based on Findings in the Staff Report but add to Item 3 of conditions, "Submission of landscape plan and approval by Mn/DOT." VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. Chairman Armstrong A similar site was allowed to retain parking even when non -conforming to the setback. He asked what action would trigger modification of that setback. There appears to be no guiding in the Code. City Planner Non- conforming setbacks can even be increased in some cases, everything except parking setbacks is addressed by the City Code. Commissioner Ptacek We allowed some others like Lake Elmo Oil and Lake Elmo Repair to be right up to the right-of-way. Grandfathering grants some rights that we shouldn't take away. ADJOURN at 8:15 p.m. RECONVENE at 8:25 p.m. OLD VILLAGE SPECIAL PROJECTS PLANNING COMMISSION Staff Report. City Planner. Charles Dillerud The topic of tonight's meeting is Sidewalks and Streetscapes in the Old Village. The Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission meets periodically, discussing the implementation of what Thorbeck designed for the City two years ago. We have concepts that we thought were a good idea, and included them in our Comprehensive Plan. The County will not participate with us. All we have is the City share of tax abatement which is $88,000 and going up by $50-60,000 each of the next eight years. A portion was originally allocated to the Old Village as backup to financing the water system improvements; the balance is dedicated to Old Village Improvements without specificity. The Council did not commit abatement to the water system financing plan recently approved. Right-of-way improvements to include drainage were the first order of business. The Commission made a recommendation to the City Council to hire an engineer to accomplish something like the Thorbeck plan. The Council decided not to go forward. t9^mdnp1:011111)i: sino Ii i 1 Approved: T /es 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 The Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission requested this joint meeting to find out what the City Council wants them to do. Mayor Hunt Part of what was withheld was due to the Council's uncertainty about spending money on the water system. Councilmember DeLann Lake Elmo is not getting and receiving what other cities get from the County with tax abatement. They subsidize their development. So we have to subsidize the Old Village. Maybe we can do a match for in -kind donations by residents. That might give it momentum. Commissioner Herreid As a business owner in the Old Village, he has been struggling with sidewalks and drainage for 10 years. The fire department siren goes off pointed at this building. The department is looking at whether it might make sense to place sirens throughout the City or sirens that turn. Anything presented by the Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission was never addressed by the City Council. Tabling the sidewalk stuff means the Council is not living up to their responsibility to the City's infrastructure. Councilmember DeLanp At Hamlet on Sunfish Lake, the residents raised the funds to add supplemental landscaping to their boulevards. They had drainage issues in those lakes. We helped them financially to accomplish those goals. Commissioner Herreid By addressing the infrastructure of the Old Village we are increasing its value. It is time to deal with the Village. This Commission is composed of individuals who want to be involved, and contribute their time. Do not ask them to be on committees then ignore everything they recommend. Councilmember Armstrong Stormwater money should not be used for this at all. Citv Planner Those stormwater monies are not intended for this type of work. Is this a stormwater issue or an aesthetic improvement issue? Councilmember Armstrong Sidewalks are a visible thing. The City has been subsidizing the Old Village for a long time. Most residents have separate water systems yet are paying for the Old Village system as well. The Council is not overlooking and abandoning the Old Village; it is not getting short-changed. Commissioner Williams This Commission has told the City Council for more than six months that we have the money; it is supposed to go to improvements for infrastructure. We are very unhappy that the Council has not acted on our request. Councilmember Armstrong The school district and County dropped out of tax abatement for Lake Elmo. Commissioner Williams We always knew what our portion of these projects would be. We are not speaking of millions of dollars. It is just a short distance - from Highway 5 to the railroad tracks, on both sides of Lake Elmo Avenue. Mayor Hunt There should be a better way to design sidewalks with curbs and gutters to be proactive, and help the ponding issue. City Planner Yes, with a little bit of design work, there may be other ways of addressing stormwater problems. Commissioner John h )rzni: r, i..:rir�iiti>.on t°ina�e �oac 10. 1W;: Approved: A ?es 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 There is frustration with the Cit}. iuncil among the members of the Old Vi11._ e Commission. Maybe we can get some design studies, and organize the sidewalks. The City Council never communicated why the recommendation was turned down. Councilmember Siedow Sidewalks down by the post office and library are dangerous in the winter. In the Old Village, stormwater runoff is the most important thing. Water is ponding in his yard. This is a very bad problem in the Old Village since the drainage was dammed by the downstream field owner. Their must be a way to carry the water all the way through the City. Councilmember DeLap» He supports any integral design plan incorporating sidewalks, road width, landscaping, and drainage. City Planner Councilmember Siedow's drainage situation is far beyond Lake Elmo Avenue. Solving that problem is not the same discussion. Stormwater is bigger than just the Old Village. Councilmember DeLann He thinks they should be solved concurrently. Mayor Hunt He goes along with Councilmember DeLapp. He supports the design of the streetscape but is concerned about surface water runoff. The money the City has should be used to measure impacts and mitigations. That is why the City chose not to rebuild LaVerne Avenue. Wet basements and flooding are problems. The swale across from Schiltgen's property causes problems. We must figure out a solution to all of that. Sidewalks in the Old Village should not be that big an additional problem. He would like to look at an integrated plan. City Planner Is the City prepared to commit the necessary resources? Mayor Hunt Yes, then we can analyze the drainage separately or concurrently. The City is well-fitnded for surface water runoff. City Planner We may have other resources as well. Mayor Hunt The City is well -funded on surface water runoff. Councilmember Armstrong The first step is to have an engineer look at it. She thinks sidewalks are a big part of the stormwater problem, and should be last on the priority list. Councilmember John He supports Councilmember Siedow. It is basic to the health, safety, and welfare of the City. Schiltgen filled his swale to flatten the land in order to plant it. We need to ask him to correct the problem. We need to look at where the swale used to be, and create a wetland or holding pond so the water will not back up on the berm. Then we need to look further away at Down's Lake. All of this should be done in combination. Councilmember Siedow Sidewalks are a small issue compared to runoff, especially considering the number of septic systems in this City. All this water running over the drainfields and going into our farms and our food is a serious concern. The City Council should really be working on it, and it should be a separate thing. Mayor Hunt We need to begin the preliminary work. Maybe we need piping around or through Schiltgen's property. TKDA should have some engineering information regarding this problem. He will vote to spend the money to get the consultant. If we can do the stormwater stuff at the same time, we will do that too. \lkinch, hart.:, Z!'tY Approved: r qes 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 City Planner He will put this on the City Council agenda, and get a TKDA quote. He thought the Environmental Commission was charged to look at the stormwater problems. Commissioner Williams The problem has been bouncing around for at least 15 years. Finally the City has some money to work with. He encouraged the City Council to spend that money. Councilmember Siedow Health, safety, and welfare should be the priority. Mayor Hunt He believes it is appropriate to put that money into the budget because a new budget cycle is about to begin. Commissioner Bere Stormwater is not an Old Village issue. Down's Lake improvements were recently approved by the City Council. That is the tail end of the watershed; the beginning is Sunfish Ponds. We need to look at it in a broader context. Can old TKDA studies be found? We need to keep stormwater where it drops. Citv Planner Ponds are east of Sunfish as you approach this direction. The water goes under Highway 5 when it rains hard. Commissioner Sedro She supports an integrated approach. Sidewalks are great but not a logical first step. She likes what she is hearing. Mayor Hunt We are talking about the whole streetscape design. Citv Planner The cost will be about $15-20,000 for just the design. City Planner Maybe $1-2 million, depending on if we do it in stages. Councilmember DeLapp It will probably be proportionate to the design cost. Mayor Hunt He will vote to go ahead with the design and the stormwater issue. Joint Commission The Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission's opinion is that it appeared that all Council Members present were in agreement. OTHER BUSINESS City Planner The Met Council has sent us an answer to our Comp Plan; they will make the decision about it soon. The City Council will have a workshop on this tomorrow at 5 p.m. All available Commissioners are asked to attend. Councilmember DeLapp It is important to have ideas of what we have to do, the time we have, and what the sequence should be. Met Council is talking about a 1.5 billion dollar investment against the Comp Plan; it will be very hard for us to fight it financially. Woodbury was blown under by developers. Commissioner Taylor IYannrsp 10. 201 Will they make a decision on Juc .6? Approved: f ' es 6 through 9, July 8, 2002 City Planner They will be in tough shape if they do not make a decision by August. Councilmember DeLann Everything was in place over one year ago but they pretended it was not there. ADJOURN 9:04 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Kimberly Schaffel Recording Secretary flannuoa i.ummi.: ion bl:n„kn,