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HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-22-02 PZMMAINTENANCE ADVISORY SPECIAL PROJECTS PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA FOR MONDAY, JULY 22, 2002, 7:00 P.M. F Planning Commission 1. Agenda 2. Minutes of June 10, 2002 3. Conditional Use Permit — Oakdale Gun Club 4. Other Business 5. Adjourn Workshop with City Council I. GB Uses and OP Concept Plan Architect Review Maintenance Advisory Special Projects Planning Commission 1. Agenda 2. Minutes of June 24, 2002 3. Community Facilities/Staffing Forecast 4. Other Business 5. Adjourn APPROVED: AUGUST 26, 2002 ( CITY OF LAKE ELMO rLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES JULY 22, 2002 Vice -Chairman Helwig called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Ptacek, Taylor, Bunn, Berg, Sessing, Sedro, and Deziel. ALSO PRESENT: MAINTENANCE ADVISORY SPECIAL PROJECTS PLANNING COMMISSIONERS: Stanley and Dege. STAFF PRESENT: Chuck Dillerud, City Planner; Dan Olinger, Public Works Supervisor; Kimberly Schaffel, Administrative Secretary. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE AGENDA The Agenda was amended at the request of Commissioner Bunn to include a presentation regarding Old Village Green Belt Preservation. It was placed as Item 4.a. on the Agenda. M/S Sessing/Ptacek To accept the Agenda as amended. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. MINUTES M/S Sessing/Sedro To accept the Minutes of June 10, 2002, Pp. 1 through 5 as presented. VOTE: 7:0:1 (Abstain — Deziel) PASSED. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT - OAKDALE GUN CLUB Staff Report. Citv Planner, Charles Dillerud The site comprises 60 acres. The 40 acres are zoned AG, and the remainder is zoned RR. All activities take place on the westerly 40. The gun club is a Conditional Use in the AG Zone. The applicant is requesting a minor amendment involving facilities, not activities. There is a 25 yard firing range on the extreme east portion of the westerly 40 acres. They propose a noise suppression shelter, with a roof. Rubberized noise suppression equipment hangs from the roof or ceiling to suppress noise. Their proposal demonstrates that they are trying to be a good neighbor. Our Municipal Code requires Findings. The City Planner recommends that the Planning Commission make a recommendation to the City Council for approval. This requires a Public Hearing. Oakdale Gun Club - Dean Bogie. President The plan for this acoustical cover has been revised several times. They chose an all steel structure because a wood structure would require greater height, and they do not want to build above the berms. They are trying to reduce visibility from the road. This structure acts as an acoustical cover and bullet baffle system. This range is for firearm safety and pistol shooting. The sides of the structure are open but there are berms there. The structure helps to insure that nothing can be launched outside the property. Should this be successful, they might ask for another cover over the 100 yard range. OPEN PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:19 P.M. Uaie tent we Adv€spry Sof .1 Is. 22. : u92 APPROVED: AUGUST 26, 2002 CLOSE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:20 P.M. Commissioner Ptacek M/S Ptacek/Sessing To approve the Amendment to the Conditional Use Permit, with conditions as set forth in the Staff Report, for the Oakdale Gun Club to build an acoustical cover over the 25 yard firing range. Discussion There was discussion about two entrances that were barricaded. One of the barricades appears less substantial than the other. A Gun Club representative noted that the east barricade was erected in order to allow an emergency truck to drive over it if necessary in the event of an emergency. There is no plan to use that entrance for any other reason because of the limited sight distance up the hill. The Commission asked if the barricade's appearance could be improved. The Gun Club representative stated that they will find a way to make it look better. He also noted that the Gun Club has conducted sound studies in order to keep the noise level leaving the range below state standards. They are currently at 68 decibels; with the new acoustic cover, they hope it will be reduced to 30 or 35 decibels. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. This item will be presented to the City Council on August 6, 2002. OTHER BUSINESS Old Village Green Belt Preservation. Commissioner Julie Ann Bunn Prior to the meeting, Commissioner Bunn disseminated copies of a letter she wrote to the City Council, senior staff, and all of the Special Projects and Planning Commissioners. Commissioner Bunn displayed a graphic of Lake Elmo with the Old Village area highlighted. She is concerned about preserving the green belt area surrounding the Old Village. Implementing the Village Plan will take time, and will involve a link between future village scale housing and the green belt area surrounding it. The green belt is portrayed as trying to maintain the rural character of Lake Elmo. Open Space Developments and residential zoning under the new Comprehensive Plan, would allow the potential for wall to wall developments. If the city does not work strategically, valuable opportunities will be lost. A Concept Plan south of 43rd Street, next to Hamlet of Sunfish, is a good example. A portion of the Schiltgen Farm just south of it looks like it will be preserved for some time. The owners of the farm north of it intend to place their land in a permanent land trust. Although this area is not immediately adjacent to the Old Village, here are two land owners who will have a new development sandwiched between them, breaking up contiguous open space. Strategic planning will be critical over the next couple of years. In the past, the Planning Commission recommended a moratorium to the City Council on building in the green belt in order to give itself more time to see options and how much green space will be used. We do not have those answers yet. We should get those answers before we cut off our options. She asks first that the Commission and Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission work with City staff more closely to expedite the Village Scale Housing Study, and make every effort Meinlenanre Advisory tiNciul Project:: 1'tarnkEI t'<nninissaou Minutes of July 22. 200? 2 APPROVED: AUGUST 26, 2002 to insure quality public inp This will benefit the City and the land mers. Second, she asks that the Planning Commission and Old Village Special Projects Committee recommend strongly to the City Council that a moratorium be placed on new platting of land within the Green Belt and Village Scale Housing portions of the Old Village until (a) the Village Scale Housing Study is complete, (b) options arising from the study have been studied, and the Council has chosen which direction to pursue, and (c) a strategic plan is in place for implementing the chosen option. Such a moratorium could be for six months initially, and then reconsidered for extension at the six and twelve month marks. City Planner The City has had moratoriums before; one moratorium on platting in the Old Village lasted for two years. That would not preclude doing another one. It must be justified. The maximum length is thirty months by State Statute, in 6-12 month segments. With Old Village Design underway, we might have justification. We can place a moratorium before a preliminary plat, and perhaps even after preliminary plat approval. It does not require a meeting by the Planning Commission. It goes directly to City Council after recommendation. Moratoriums are created by Ordinance. Discussion Commissioners Sessing, Taylor, Deziel, Berg, and Helwig, and Councilmember DeLapp support the preservation of Open Space but not by moratorium. Resolution for the drainage problem in the Old Village, and the possibility of a tax increase were concerns of the Commission. Commissioner Deziel We need to get going on acquiring development rights of some of the farms involved here. The formation of a Lake Elmo Land Trust could deal with this issue and others like it. Councilmember DeLapn There are only four or five owners for all of this green belt area. The City would not want the owners to pick the areas that might be sold off for development. We should offer assistance to help owners fit the Comprehensive Plan. Commissioner Bunn She does not know if it would require public money. Additional taxes might be needed to support a green belt. A Washington County Referendum to further tax ourselves by up to 65% in Lake Elmo precincts, while the referendum failed, evidence suggests it might pass. Private initiatives may do it. Motion: Bunn/ Berg seconded for the purposes of discussion, to recommend a six month moratorium on platting in the red and green areas of the overlay map, to give enough time to evaluate the Old Village Neighborhood Design Study, and to reevaluate at six months to allow completion of the of the Village Scale Study. Commissioner Berg He supports examination and possible implementation of Purchased Development Rights, and possibly other tools to establish an Old Village Green Belt. Also, he is, and has been concerned about developing and implementing the Old Village Plan in a timely manner. But he does not support a moratorium at this time due to this having been done twice already; the perception that if this was a good thing, we should not need a moratorium; and he does not believe there is currently a high risk of development around the Old Village. Main!eti. riec Advisory i'kooninp Conn or Minute,' of July 22. :'002 3 APPROVED: AUGUST 26, 2002 ( I City Planner This is what we are doing with the Old Village Neighborhood Design Study. There is no great urgency for two of those landowners. He was not sure if the risk is great except for Sunfish Ponds. Commissioner Sedro The Neighborhood Design Study has kicked -off. She asked the City Planner if the consultants will be qualified to help us with the transfer of development rights, and if it is conceivable to do that in the next year. Citv Planner That work is done by attorneys, not planners. With so few landowners, the odds are greater for success. Commissioner Helwie The Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission should be involved. Commissioner Bunn She is only asking for a recommendation. Hopefully the City Council would look at it next week because another month or two could be too late. M/S Bunn/Berg To table the motion until such time as Old Village Special Projects can be brought into the discussion. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. WORKSHOP WITH CITY COUNCIL Staff Renort. City Planner. Charles Dillerud The City Council has requested the Planning Commission to look at possibly truncating the General Business uses, some may not be meant for present needs. Many of the uses seem to be designed for the 94 Corridor, and not for the Old Village. The City Council would also like the Planning Commission to review the Open Space Development requirements because it seems we are addressing the quantitative aspects versus the qualitative aspects. They suggest overcoming that deficiency by requiring the applicant present the Concept Plan to an architect at their expense. Councilmember DeLann Technicalities of the Registration Laws in Minnesota talk about the differences between conventional developments and Conservation Developments. The State refers to Conservation Developments as needing to have an architect to review or design them. We get more land surveyor -types who are good at lines, slopes, and drainage but are not addressing the ecology, and how to deal with aesthetics, road enhancements such as trees, and quantities of Open Space. We are going to continue to get new plats of questionable origin. The better plats were designed by Landscape Architects. We have an engineer on staff to review the quantitative requirements; we should also have a parallel for the aesthetic point of view. We can challenge the size of a holding pond or width of a road but we are unable to challenge the environmental concerns. Mayor Hunt He said the position would be similar to the Consulting Engineer, a Consulting Landscape vIai atorFaasa.'NJ ui.a>ry ProiCc!o PIam big (lnu mq:qua \Aiu rt. of ;uh 22. 2002 APPROVED: AUGUST 26, 2002 Architect who could bill th( ity on a pass -through basis, and would paid when we gave him work or a plat came in. Commissioner Sessine The problem will be trying to develop standards and guidelines to follow. Councilmember DeLann The City Engineer has to accept size of holding ponds. If we hire someone maybe they can help us better define aesthetics. We need an integrated approach of how to create a community. Commissioner Sedro Unless we change the ordinance, would we have any way to get compliance? Commissioner Ptacek A letter from a resident looked at a new plat negatively but it met the requirements of the ordinance, and we had to pass it. But the Planning Commission relies on the City Council to say it doesn't meet the spirit and intent. We may not need to amend the ordinance if we get this person. Commissioner Sedro Would the Planning Commission have the opportunity to interview this person. Commissioner Deziel We had a better Open Space Ordinance before it was changed. Instead of trying to find a new solution, he would like to go back first. The problems would have been solved had the ordinance not been altered. It would be more flexible. Conservation lots should be required to be part of a development. Commissioner Berg Additional technical oversight might be helpful. He performs natural resource inventories for the county. We have to tell the technical helpers what is most important- woods or farms. We need to identify what those values are so we can guide development. We have to avoid the arbitrary and capricious. City Planner Other communities have Landscape Architects on their staffs. Many do not have ordinances quite like this. He does not know how they do it. He would rather see some guidance. Commissioner Helwie We had a licensed architect design a plat, and nobody liked it. He did another per the code, and we did not like that either. Mavor Hunt We do not have to decide tonight; take another meeting to address it. Pull your thoughts together. Make any recommendation you want. The current Open Space Ordinance is a compromise and not the best in the world. We can craft a better ordinance with help from staff. M/S Helwig/Sessing To table the Open Space Concept discussion until there is more time. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. %1tcntename Adtisory S'001 APPROVED: AUGUST 26, 2002 Councilmember DeLaan( In the uses for General Business, we may want to look at a different set of criteria for downtown and not downtown. Commissioner Bunn When we are working with the Comprehensive Plan Land Use Map, all of 94 will be rezoned Limited Business. Won't the problem go away when we are working with this map? Councilmember DeLeon We don't know if the Met Council will allow us to have this zoning. Citv Planner He can draft an amendment to our General Business District zoning; he will split it into two zones, 1 and 2. The first zone might not change much but the Old Village could change a good deal. M/S Helwig/Sedro To table discussion of the uses within the General Business Zone to a later date. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED. ADJOURN AT 8:30 P.M. RECONVENE AS MAINTENANCE ADVISORY SPECIAL PROJECTS PLANNING COMMISSION AT 8:40 P.M. M/S Sessing/Berg To accept the Agenda as presented. 10:0 PASSED. MINUTES OF JUNE 24 Commissioner Bunn She requested rewording the second to the last sentence of the large paragraph on page 7. "The whole process is overlapping with City Council and staff being distracted by matters having to do with the Met Council." On page 8, add, "Special Projects," to Old Village. Commissioner Deziel On page 6, change to, "He agrees with Chairman Armstrong's comments." M/S SessinglBerg To accept the Minutes of June 24, 2002 as amended. 9:0:1 (ABSTAIN: SEDRO) COMMUNITY FACILITIES STAFFING FORECAST Staff Report. Citv Planner. Charles Dillerud Staff was provided with copies of the Draft Report. He suggested they attend a meeting after they looked at the draft, An invitation was extended to the City Administrator, Fire Chief, Public Works Supervisor, and Parks Supervisor so the Planning Commission could hear from them before rendering a recommendation to the City Council. Dan Olineer, Public Works Supervisor After reviewing the draft report, has found a lot of discrepancies among square footage and prices. Original report said 10,660 feet; TKDA added 3,480 square feet. This report is 12,000 NIaulrcM:Mcc 1U.Ivi;O1'' Spc7601 E'rnitr:s 4' ku III ul:S ol.luly T.L. 200'_ 6 APPROVED: AUGUST 26, 2002 square feet. Adding Parks( ?ublic Works is confusing. In 1996, if is just Public Works; in 1998 they added parks and additional space; now we have lost 2,140 square feet. City Planner He is not terribly concerned. This may just be the comparison to other cities. The principle still stands. The Commission could make a note that it is comparison -based, not program -based. The Public Works building would be based on program. Dan Olineer, Public Works Sunervisor The proposal and figures are somewhat in line but nothing is being done with it. We have had the same thing before. This report is right in line with where it was in the past. The report says that the location might not be the best because of running out of salt sand. No matter where we are that can happen. He agrees with the forecast, and hopes it moves forward. Commissioner Helwia He agrees that it must be done now. Mike Bouthilet. Parks Sunervisor This report is the same thing we have seen before, with the same end result. There are discrepancies in park numbers, acreage, and staff. They list 8 parks; we have 16. We have four Parks/Public Works employees. They must have included the 3,200 acre Lake Elmo Regional Park; we only have 457 acres. We do need the additional building space. The Parks Commission has had talks about a Central Park Facility for community -wide events with a pavilion, bandstand, and grandstands. Perhaps that would be in line with the Old Village Neighborhood Design Study. We can make the present City Hall a Community Center. As the City develops, we should have something like this. City Planner He will make sure those numbers are corrected. Commissioner Ptacek He suggested the City Planner share this information with Thorbeck Architects. M/S Ptacek/Taylor To recommend to the City Council to review and adopt this study on Community Facilities and Staffing Forecast with corrections as noted by department heads and the City Planner. VOTE: 10:0 PASSED. OTHER BUSINESS ADJOURN 9:00 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Kimberly Schaffel Administrative Secretary ivisunielK ;; Adds< oirris Plain) tummi:sicn }ai❑ CITY OF LAKE ELMO City of Lake Elmo 651/777-5510 3800 Laverne Avenue North / Lake Elmo, MN 55042 The Lake Elmo Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission and regular Planning Commission will meet on MONDAY. July 8. 2002 at 7:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers of City Hall, 3800 Laverne Avenue North, Lake Elmo, Minnesota. AGENDA 1. Agenda 2. Minutes 3. Kickoff Old Village Design Study Guest: Thorbeck Architects 4. Other 5. Adjourn i�ol, printed on recycled paper