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HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-26-02 PZMMAINTENANCE ADVISORY SPECIAL PROJECTS PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA FOR MONDAY, AUGUST 26, 2002, 6:00 P.M. 11 Workshop with City Council Community Facilities Planning 1. Agenda 2. Community Facilities Planning 3. Adjourn Maintenance Advisory Special Projects Planning Commission 1. Agenda 2. Amended Draft Minutes of July 22, 2002 3. General Business Uses 4. Landscape Architect for OP Concept Plan Review 5. Adjourn APPROVED MINUTES: SEPTEMBER 23, 2002 CITY OF LAKE ELMO MAINTENANCE ADVISORY SPECIAL PROJECTS & PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES AUGUST 26, 2002 Chairman Armstrong called the joint workshop to order at 6:35 p.m. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chairman Armstrong, Helwig, Ptacek, Deziel, Sessing, Bunn. Commissioner Berg is on vacation. MAC MEMBERS PRESENT: Stanley, Talcott. Commissioner Dege is at work. COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Hunt, Siedow, (6:25) DeLapp (6:50). COMMUNITY FACILITIES AND STAFFING FORECAST Staff Report, City Planner, Charles Dillerud The City Council has twice looked at the draft document and deferred any action. They requested this workshop. When a community adopts a Comp Plan it affects city facilities. Issues involve additions, especially when there is growth forecasted. Often communities wait until the needs are overpowering, then efficiency is lost while they try to catch up. That might be what is happening here. The City Planner suggested long ago looking at the Comp Plan forecasts in order to understand staff and facilities' needs in the future. We asked our consultant to look at those needs in five year increments based on the forecast for growth in the comp plan. Consultants came to the Planning Commission with comparison to five other cities we are familiar with. Each of the five is now at forecasted populations. Which of those do we view our city to be? We selected a community in each group to represent what we want to be at population levels forecasted in 5- year increments to 2020. Consultants took those cities, and analyzed their operations, structures, staffing, and budgets. This is what it took to get where you want to be. They made adjustments to the data for Lake Elmo. The direction to the consultant was for Lake Elmo to maintain the same ratios, one of the lowest government cost per capita. What we have is not in bad condition, except for Parks. But the facilities are woefully short of space. We were behind for even a smaller population. Recommendations were prepared for where we ought to be. How many square feet? They compared to what we do have, and made recommendations. Problem is it all needs to be done right away. Providing a reasonable projection of what we need. Alternative to doing something like that is to wait until the needs are far behind what is necessary. Council discussed a City Hall addition, but the consultant said it would be four times the present size, and we don't have the space on the City Hall site. They also recommended certain consolidations, parks/public works, and city hall/fire department. Perhaps we might want our own police department. Councilmember Siedow What about full time fire department? What if we did away with the fire department and contracted those services? City Planner There has to be a reasonable response time. Commission looked closely at that. Regional fire can be done but you have to look at response times and other issues. Planning Commission Meeting of August 26, 2002 1 APPROVED MINUTFS: SEPTEMBER 23, 2002 1 I Councilmember Siedow What happens if Met Council rejects our Comp Plan? Mayor Hunt We can we throw this draft report away. Commissioner Ptacek We have heard this for years; how long do we make our city employees suffer? Mayor Hunt Consistently tried to proceed. 2003 budget is the beginning. 8 years ago we looked at building a maintenance facility. Thinks we will prevail with Met Council. Mayor Hunt There are options for fire protection for portions of the city. Commissioner Stanley If things change, this is set for 12,500 population. We can be prepared to expand. Councilmember DeLapp arrived at 6:50 p.m. Mayor Hunt This is a consultant's report. If the Planning Commission/Maintenance Advisory Special Projects Planning Commission is happy, then council will need to get to work on it. These are recommendations. I think we can get by without our own police, for example. There are a lot of different issues. Then we need to sit down with each department on policy decisions, such as, should we continue to do plowing using city staff or contract some of it? Bonding will have to go to referendum. Would like to see us bond for big improvements, and we will have to explain it to our residents. Councilmember DeLapp It says our 3200 square feet facility in City Hall is too small, but to go to a factor of four just because we are starting to build may be a mistake. Our chambers are larger, our entry is similar; maybe we could use some space in the office. He would like specifics, not just sizes. Don't just accept the word in this report. Mayor Hunt That is our job to work with them. We have to accept the report but we need to go through each and every department. City Planner The idea of this report is to give you an idea of the scale by comparing to cities we aspire to. You have to be able to tell the difference between imitation and reality. Commissioner Ptacek We compared it to cars, it isn't a Cadillac just a well-equipped Chevy. He accepts that each department head will help us come to those conclusions. He hates to look out the window at that trailer. Planning Commission Meeting of August 26, 2002 2 APPROVED MINUTES: SEPTEMBER 23, 2002 ( I Commissioner Sessing Start the process now. Do not worry about how big to do it, just to do it. Mayor Hunt Create a resolution to accept the plan, and then start into it with the various departments. Citv Planner Once it is accepted, he will do two things, he'll make corrections and get it published. He will ask the Council if they want it to be part of the Comp Plan. Mayor Hunt Incorporate this document as a study to be used to help us generate more policy and ordinances. City Planner Now we have something to base our assumptions on. Chairman Armstrong The Planning Commission voted to pass it on to the Council. Mayor Hunt If the Planning Commission and Maintenance Advisory Special Projects are comfortable, we can take it apart and process it. Commissioner Sessine Would that be done by the City Council or a joint commission? Mayor Hunt By committee per department if possible. We only have one Planner, and we could over - committee him to death with our regular stuff, Met Council, and now all this with staff. Commissioner Bunn Maybe we should begin with staff. There are not enough people to deal with all the work that needs to be done, an Assistant Planner, etc. We are inadequately staffed to do that. Councilmember DeLano Nothing in the Comp Plan says we are trying to spurn growth. We have accommodated it so far, the intention is to continue as we have. Councilmember Siedow Too many committees can be redundant. We can have one Cadillac and one Volkswagen. Commissioner Sessine We can get good volunteers who understand this concept. Maintenance Advisory Special Projects and some Planning Commissioners. Councilmember DeLann We need to separate the wish list from the need list. Commissioner Sessine We can have one group that deciphers. Planning Commission Meeting of August 26, 2002 3 APPROVED MINUTES: SEPTEMBER 23, 2002 City Planner Capital Buildings Workgroup Councilmember DeLana Sessing knows about these topics as a contractor. Mayor Hunt Do a resolution, and a second resolution of numbers of commissioners; get volunteers from across the board, or public members. 7:07 p.m. Chairman Armstrong adjourned the Maintenance Advisory Special Projects and City Council Workshop. Planning Commission Chairman Armstrong called the meeting of the Planning Commission to order at 7:10 p.m. Agenda M/S Helwig/Deziel, to accept the Agenda as presented. VOTE: 6:0 PASSED. Minutes of July 22, 2002 Commissioner Deziel asked for the following change on Page 4 of the Draft Minutes. "It would be more flexible. Conservation lots should be required to be part of a development." Commissioner Bunn said she will provide written changes. M/S Armstrong /Ptacek, to accept the Minutes of July 22, 2002 as amended. VOTE: 6:0 PASSED. GENERAL BUSINESS USES Staff Report, Citv Planner, Charles Dillerud The Planning Commission was asked to look at the text of General Business Zoning Uses to see if that list should be modified to distinguish I-94 from the Old Village. The Old Village intent could be to retain all the uses as a central business district. The 1-94 Corridor could retain only a few. He looked at the zoning map to see where GB uses are located (four locations displayed on a map of the city). We should look at I-94 at Inwood and Hudson. Each of these businesses has an existing use on it. Two vacant GB sites exist, one proposed is Lake Elmo Business Park. Another is adjacent to the drive-in. Go back and look at the land use plan to see if there was reason to change those I-94 business uses. Our 1990 Zoning Map shows we are guided one way and zoned General Business. The point is the PZ/CC could adopt a rezone along these 7 sites on I-94. They could be GB on six of them with little problem for the businesses. These changes would help by bringing zoning into compliance with 1990 Comp Plan and partly the 2020 Comp Plan as well. Planning Commission Meeting of August 26, 2002 4 APPROVED MINUTES: SEPTEMBER 23, 2002 The Planner can bring it to the City Council if Planning Commission concurs, or go back and redraft the text. Commissioner Bunn So these are the only four areas with GB Zoning. Area under our proposed Comp Plan shows LB to Keats Avenue. What are those currently zoned? City Planner We just recently rezoned the Keats -fronting site LB to get in compliance. The little square just to the left, is the former hotel rezoned LB. The ultra-lite park is rezoned LB. Roughly one-third is already zoned LB. Commissioner Bunn Why not throw in all that are not in compliance with the 1990 Comp Plan? Citv Planner That is sometimes considered to be driving development when upzoning before an application is made. Chairman Armstrong With the exception of Mulligan Masters, we don't need to zone them up. Commissioner Ptacek He would rather encourage GB Uses to the center of the city. Bring GB to Limited Business on these seven sites. City Planner What does the Planning Commission think of the Cimarron Convenience Store site? Commissioner Ptacek Leave it GB, it isn't pulling traffic from the Old Village or I-94. He'd rather keep the two issues separate, although he agrees with Commissioner Bunn. Commissioner Bunn State law says they have to be in compliance. Chairman Armstrong He favors just the seven sites, let the others stay that way for now. If they come up with an application, we'd be hard-pressed not to give them LB Zoning. City Planner The far eastern site could remain Rural Residential or AG Zoning. Chairman Armstrong The undeveloped site is outside LB designation, and can be RAD or AG. Commissioner Deziel Were property owners are notified? City Planner There has been no notification at this point. That would be once a Public Hearing is scheduled. Planning Commission Meeting of August 26, 2002 5 APPROVED MINUTES: SEPTEMBER 23, 2002 M/S Ptacek/Armstrong, Rezone all six I-94 Corridor businesses now zoned General Business to Limited Business as prescribed in the Planner's Staff Report, and the seventh, most easterly site be rezoned AG. The convenience store at Cimarron should be left as zoned, General Business. VOTE: 6:0 LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT Staff Report, City Planner, Charles Dillerud The City Council has asked the Planning Commission whether a Landscape Architect's review of OP Concept Plans in parallel with internal staff review at expense of applicant would be a good idea. The City Council asked you to consider the concept and report whether it should be added to our local ordinance or not. Commissioner Sessing What are they supposed to help with, trees? Chairman Armstrong While it might be nice to have a consultant or landscaper, better to have standards first. Commissioner Bunn In early stages, that individual should help the city come up with graphic portrayals and documentation to show us what we should be looking for. That is what Council Member DeLapp meant. Commissioner Ptacek Technically the Open Space Preservation plats meet what we asked for. He is not comfortable dictating aesthetics. Commissioner Deziel He would prefer to have this rather than rigid standards like we considered for the Old Village. Maybe we can get ideas at the outset. If it isn't going to be expensive, it might be a good way to get those ideas in to help developers. It might be a way to meld without creating a bunch of new standards. Commissioner Ptacek Then again if it isn't ordinance, how can we be held to it? Chairman Armstrong Are we just going to get another hoop to jump through? I don't know what Open Space standards a landscape architect could help or draft to change. How do you legislate aesthetics? The last developer responded to public concerns. We have them come in with concepts instead of just preliminary plats. City Planner You might think of that work as another help like a staff report. It wouldn't be an ordinance. What if you chose part of what was recommended and the applicant challenged it? Chairman Armstrong That has happened before. Planning Commission Meeting of August 26, 2002 6 APPROVED MINUTES: SEPTEMBER 23, 2002 I 1 Commissioner Sessing Without guidance, a landscape architect would not be helpful Commissioner Bunn This was supported primarily by Council Member DeLapp. If he believes strongly we need this, maybe he could give us something in writing. She has no clue as to how this would work in practice. Commissioner Sessing If in the beginning a Landscape Architect was doing it, unless the Homeowner's Association backs it up, they never get fulfilled. There are a lot of covenants. City Planner Fields and the original Sunfish did an elaborate analysis of sites with a Landscape Architect. Commissioner Sessing Even when it is in covenants, they still do what they want. Maybe we could request help but not require it. M/S Sessing/Armstrong, to send back the request for a Landscape Architect for review of Concept Plans to the City Council, for direction on how to proceed. VOTE: 6:0 OTHER BUSINESS OLD VILLAGE NEIGHBORHOOD DESIGN STUDY On September 9, 2002, Dewey Thorbeck will give a presentation about the Old Village. Sarah Harris will be present as well. The goal is to begin preparations for the Public Forums. Commissioner Bunn The consultant should be both planning and facilitating the public meeting. Defining the public input for this price tag is not enough for the money. She would have liked a variety of ways of getting that public input, as opposed to those who might attend a meeting, for the price. Citv Planner That is a good idea but she may not do it. Anything beyond that contract we haven't budgeted for. Commissioner Deziel He did offer to facilitate for no money. Commissioner Bunn There were three of us at the workshop about the Met Council, and she was really bothered by the process. By the time they arrived the workshop was a council meeting. It started at 5:45 p.m. The first 20 to 30 minutes was overview, which left two council members 30 minutes to have discussion before their vote on a very large issue. When the time came for public input, the Mayor asked people to keep it short, and rolled his eyes when they spoke longer. She understood the pressure, and that there were other engagements but it looked like a preconceived decision, and we weren't really invited to share. She looked for more facilitation, and a genuine public process. She recommends that in the future do a workshop, and do not make a decision. Planning Commission Meeting of August 26, 2002 7 APPROVED MINUTES: SEPTEMBER 23, 2002 1 1 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Commissioner Bunn Are there alternatives or is there a process? City Planner There is a process. Commissioner Helwie What is Maintenance Advisory Special Projects responsibility? Why doesn't equipment have to go through Maintenance Advisory Special Projects? City Planner The City Council decides it. Commissioner Helwia If you don't have to go through MAC, why have them? City Planner We go to them for CIP items of $5,000 or more. The Capital Improvement Program will be brought to the Planning Commission at the second September meeting. Chairman Armstrong adjourned the Planning Commission Meeting at 8:05 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Kimberly Schaffel Recording Secretary Planning Commission Meeting of August 26, 2002 8