HomeMy WebLinkAbout01-27-03 & 01-13-03 PZMAMENDED AND APPROVED: MARCH 10, 2003
City of Lake Elmo
Old Village Special Projects
Planning Commission Meeting Minutes
January 27, 2003
Chairman Helwig called the meeting of the Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission to order at
6:00 p.m. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Deziel, Meldahl, Pelletier, Berg, Helwig, Sessing, Ptacek,
Sedro, Bunn, Herreid, and John. STAFF PRESENT: City Planner, Charles Dillerud and Recording
Secretary, Kimberly Schaffel.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
AGENDA FOR OLD VILLAGE SPECIAL PROJECTS PLANNING COMMISSION
M/S, Ptacek/Sessing, Amend Agenda to include discussion of Lake Elmo Library by Wyn John. VOTE:
11:0 PASSED.
Lake Elmo Avenue Streetscapes — TKDA
Staff Report, Chuck Dillerud
The Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission directed and the City Council concurred to begin
the planning for Streetscapes in the Old Village. Two things were to be done concurrently, one was to
recreate the Thorbeck plan that was adopted and made a part of the Comprehensive Plan a few years ago
to improve Lake Elmo Avenue's character. And the other was to create a tax abatement district within
Eagle Pointe Business Park to fund it.
It appears that about $50,000 was collected in the first year of tax abatement. He believes the abatements
were not levied in the last two years but will soon verify that.
Rich Gray, TKDA
Three years ago a conceptual plan was developed along Lake Elmo Avenue for beauty and safety. The
concept was to enhance the downtown district capitalizing on good points and correcting problems. Since
then it was surveyed. They have a good idea where the boundaries are for properties and the right-of-
way. He then presented graphic concept plans for detailed improvements.
Areas of special interest include the water crossing area. There is limited space there to work in a bridge.
There was an obvious need for something to be done about the water there because of erosion problems.
Staying true to the concept, he suggests altering it by a series of cascades as it drops in elevation. It could
become a point of interest to pedestrians. It has a play and interest instead of just falling water into a
sewer. It could even be recirculated through a pump. As a motorist is traveling by, the sidewalk bends
and a parapet type of fence there would mimic the feeling of crossing a bridge. A paving pattern in the
alley could symbolically show the watercourse that moves beneath the sidewalk.
At the south end of the street near the Inn, the road widens and acts as a gateway from the south. It could
have plantings, signage and sitting areas. The grade is a challenge there because it has to go higher to
cross the railroad tracks. However, it allows the grade change to become more attractive and make that
area less expansive for a pedestrian crossing the street. Bump -outs are created for pedestrians but they
also structure parking, highlighting areas for safety and separating areas for automobiles and people.
Commissioner Bunn
Do bump -outs also cut down on the number of parking spaces?
Rich Gray, TKDA
Yes, slightly.
Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of January 27, 2003 1
AMENDED ANI) ANPRUVHD: MARCH 10, 2003
Commissioner Bunn 1
She likes the idea of a gateway into town from the south. It might slow down the traffic by narrowing the
road there. Currently on the west side there is angled parking. Does this plan get rid of that type of
parking?
Rich Gray. TKDA
Yes, parking will be parallel rather than angle. Uniformity of standards is safer because it is expected by
the motorist. Also, backing out into a rather busy street is not as safe. It will also help with drainage.
Commissioner Bunn
The B Zone has green areas and rain gardens which usually suggest a lack of a curb.
Rich Gray. TKDA
They would probably be modified curbs with slots allowing some water in. Usually it would have to be
flush with the street. To control water, you might want slotted curbs. He is envisioning Zone A as having
a continuous sidewalk, while Zone B walking areas change character with the adjoining use.
Commissioner Bunn
Do we have authority to narrow the street? Did you determine the number of trees?
Rich Grav, TKDA
The street is county owned. They have looked at trees only in general terms. Evergreens would be
inappropriate. Shade trees would be best but the west side of the street has power lines. If power lines
could be underground, the environment would be changed by trees and lights. Otherwise, ornamental
trees would be planted to the edge. He would suggest spacing them on the south end so they are placed
between businesses. They would be spaced more tightly in residential areas.
Commissioner Helwie
If there are cuts in the curb, how would the snow plows handle that?
Rich Gray. TKDA
It takes more care and snow removal is more difficult with bump -outs. You have to have an agreement
before you create this plan that you will be more careful with that.
City Planner
Before we snake sidewalk improvements, there are ancient storm sewers and water mains under some of
those existing sidewalks. As long as it is torn up, water mains could be replaced and be made deep
enough, and we could fix the storm sewer. At that point, we could consider burying those wires. It is
scary what that would cost. Thorbeck said it was part of our downtown's eclectic character to have
electrical wires running above the street. From the city's perspective, we are looking at underground
work before we lay new sidewalks. This is a county road and we have no authority to do it. We have
indicated to the county that we might have an interest in "turn back" north of 10`h Street. They may be
willing to do this. The street would then become our responsibility.
Commissioner Deziel
What if that vacant lot had parking with islands for stormwater gardens?
City Planner
That would be beyond the scope of this project. However, if we take parking away, we have to add some
somewhere else.
Commissioner John
The idea of burying power lines was too expensive when it was reviewed in the past. Where you are
digging up the roadside, it might mitigate the cost of the burial of electrical lines.
Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of January 27, 2003 2
AI7I;.0 AND At'NNC)VFI): MANCI 110, 200:
City Planner
We would surely look at trying to do that together but there are no assurances.
Councilmember DeLanu
Water pipes were put in when there were quality control problems on 30th Street. Downtown is even
older. When looking at the Old Village in a fuller context, if people along that area wanted to increase the
density but couldn't because of septic limitations, this would be the time to do that as well.
City Planner
It might be beneficial to install wastewater dry pipe for a wetland treatment system of the future. It must
be installed below the grade. How do we pay for it? There would be a benefit to property owners as a
result. If we can't do it by tax abatement, it probably cannot be done.
Commissioner Deziel
Businesses would be interested and concerned for their parking. Customers would have to walk a longer
distance. They might be willing to absorb some cost for a parking lot.
City Planner
We don't want to kill it because neighbors do not want to pay for it.
Commissioner Herreid
He loves it and it is long overdue. Costs might prohibit it from happening for ten more years. He is
afraid that we are piling so many issues onto this stretch of land it may never happen. The design is great.
Commissioner Sessine
With regard to the downtown stormwater issue, does TKDA help that problem?
Rich Grav, TKDA
By using rainwater gardens we would be helping to slow some but that is not enough to solve
downstream flooding. They didn't do calculations to know how much. It would clean water, there would
be some benefit, and it would slow down some of the water.
Commissioner Deziel
Is there a maintenance advantage to bump -outs where trees break up the sidewalks?
Rich Grav, TKDA
Paver block allows you to relay if there is a problem but the other side of that is to take more care, put it
in well. Much depends on a good installation. The paver industry promotes it because it does not crack
easily.
Commissioner Bunn
Based on previous meetings, the planning takes too long. We are understaffed with planning capacity
given what we are trying to accomplish. The problem is exacerbated by the planner acting as the City
Administrator. What are the timelines for these projects? She would like to understand a timeline or our
goals within these processes. Pipes, overhead lines, costs, and planning — they turn this into a very
complicated task. We do not have the planning capacity to manage this project. We need to see a
timeline soon within the next month. We need a planner.
Commissioner Ptacek
He would support that as a motion.
Commissioner John
What would be the timeline for this project if we have approval and funding?
Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of January 27, 2003 3
AMI-NI )FI) ANI) APPROVED: MAI2CH 10, 2003
Rich Gray, TKDA
With all those things in order, plans could be done within the next couple of months. Utilities could get
complicated. There are planning issues for an agreement and support in the community or other agencies
such as the watershed.
Commissioner John
How long - as an engineering project?
Rich Grav, TKDA
It is complicated by the fact that it is a functioning downtown area but essentially it is a six month
process.
City Planner
It would take one full construction season. How could we do this? He should sit with TKDA for the
steps and have an answer by this time next month. Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission
can meet again on 24th of February with Tom Prew. We can talk about money and how we should
proceed. We will also have results of our annual audit by then too, including tax abatement. Planning
and staff time would be minimal. The city would turn it over to engineering and architectural firms. The
burden on us would not be great.
M/S, Sessing/Meldahl, The Planner should come back with a plan in late February, to include costs of
lines buried and the whole schedule. VOTE: 11:0 PASSED.
Old Village Neighborhood Design Study
City Planner
He is bringing back this item from the last meeting because Old Village Special Projects Planning
Commission was not in attendance. The Planning Commission suggested changing the contract with
Thorbeck to get this back on the road. We have volunteer help with the PowerPoint Presentation.
M/S, Berg/Sedro, To recommend moving the Old Village Study ahead with Thorbeck Architects.
VOTE: 11:0 PASSED.
Other Business
Commissioner John distributed a handout about Lake Elmo Library suffering two floods in the last couple
of months. An ad hoc committee of peopled concerned about the situation has been formed. They had a
representative from the Washington County Library Board there at the last meeting. As chairman, Wyn
John was asked to approach the Planning Commission and City Council asking for an upgraded library
facility to be added into the Village Plan. He spoke to Mayor Hunt about it already.
Adjourn at 7: 00 p.m.
Pledge of Allegiance
Chairman Helwig called the meeting of the Planning Commission to order at 7:07 p.m.
Agenda for Planning Commission
The Planner asked that a forthcoming Planning Commission Activity be added to the agenda.
M/S, Sessing/Berg, VOTE: 9:0 PASSED
The Planner thanked the commissioners for staying for the third meeting of the evening.
Minutes of January 13, 2003 are incomplete and will be presented at a future meeting.
Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of January 27, 2003
4
AMEN' EI) ANI) APPROVED: MARCH 10, 2003
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Public Hearing: OP Concept Plan for Whistling Valley — Bald Eagle Development, David Sorenson
City Planner
This is a development concept of 21 - % acre to 1 % acre lots. A Concept Plan is reviewed for
compliance with standards within the Open Space Preservation Ordinance. Staff offers recommendations
with respect to compliance with our Comprehensive Plan. There are three pages where physical features
of the site are addressed. There are three design standards that do not comply with OP Standards. The
Planning commission will hold a Public Hearing and render a recommendation.
The Open Space Preservation is many. In this case, there may be some misunderstanding about how
Open Space and density are calculated. There can be no more than 16 units per 40 acres of Buildable
Area, 50% of the Buildable Area must be preserved as open space with a permanent open space easement
precluding further development. Buildable area is the gross area, less slopes, DNR protected wetlands,
hydric soils, etc. We already have a wetland evaluation in this case. In this case, the applicant may have
overlooked 25% slopes as being excluded for density calculations. It is eligible for only 19 rather than 21
units, and preserved Open Space does not comply with area standards. The City Council may approve by
4/5 vote, a variance from any standards in the OP Ordinance. The Planning Commission could
recommend that either excess and/or reduced OP could be approved within 4/5 variance of the code.
Findings:
1. Documentation submitted is substantially complete.
2. Consistent with Open Space Preservation Ordinance intent and purposes.
3. Consistent with goals objectives of the Comprehensive Plan.
4. The Concept Plan fails to comply with development standards quantitatively two too many units,
and by about six acres short of preserved open space. Both could be subject to some adjustment.
Commissioner Deziel
Is the lake owned by the applicants? Are there other wetlands in there?
City Planner
Yes, but subject to being DNR protected. There are a couple more wetlands there. The wetlands report
came on Friday. They are delineated wetlands, and were not in the calculation for Buildable Area.
Applicant, Bob Close
This is a special piece of land. They have gone through many studies to get where they are today. The
valley running throughout the site is the dominant feature. There are stands of mature trees, particularly
around the lake, and other mature trees throughout the site. The quality of the landscape is primary in his
mind. They are leaving the center of the site open to allow wildlife to move to and from the Regional
Park. Kids will bicycle across that area but otherwise Land Trust was favorable. They will be
incorporating walking paths through the site too.
Housing falls on the east side which is now primarily open meadowland. It is the end of a long meadow
running to the east. The west side is characterized by existing vegetation so homes can be sited with a
sense of privacy. Unlike a large flat cornfield, this has beautiful topography. There is a water feature at
the fork in the road. The cut off portion of the lake has been degraded. The water feature will clean that
water. Aeration and cleaning require a DNR permit fee and an annual fee. The DNR was very
encouraging about it. The north lake is connected by a culvert to the south portion but doesn't seem to
flow very well judging by water quality.
The west side of the site has a ridge. They will be holding houses back from that ridge. The northwest
corner has a rolling topography. They plan odd shaped cul-de-sacs where water can be held and cleansed
through the use of rain gardens - capturing water in depressed basins containing native plant material.
The lake will potentially have a fishing pier. They will hold houses away from the pond. From the
heavily traveled road, the pond will look basically unchanged.
Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of January 27, 2003 5
AMr NI)rl) ANr) APPROVE-.[): MARCH 10, 2003
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They have looked at potential uevelopment east and west too for roads, etc. They plan a community
wetland septic system. They respect the quality of the landscape, the relationship to the park, etc. The
edge of the site is most densely vegetated. A buffer of two hundred feet there would make little sense to
them. They would like to discuss alternatives for that western edge.
William McCully, P.E., Rehbein Comnanv
Densities seem to be the main issue. He distributed a sketch. He stated that his clients are penalized by
having water on the site. How much open space is really being protected if you look at these shapes?
The interior valley section is about 10.5 acres. The lake and wetlands are 14 acres together; they
excluded all wetlands outside these shapes. They also excluded village greens where there will be pre-
treatment, bio-retention areas. It is similar to open space but not counted. They are excluding the right-
of-way on the county road too. Based on those two shapes, we do have unassigned open space. We are
abiding by the spirit of the Open Space Preservation Ordinance. Another development, Wildflower
Shores, was developed on a smaller site. There, we created wetlands, and it has a higher density than this
one by four units - maybe six. Also, aerial photos reveal water quality difference from south of the road,
the upper cell of Goose Lake. The difference is runoff from the west; nutrients are getting into the lake.
They are contemplating that recirculates some water will improve the quality along with building a series
of ponds and rerouting some of the basins, trying to clean that water. There are annual and up -front costs
that will be incurred if this is approved. This would be a non -irrigation permit issued by the DNR.
Compare the density to other developments and the open space with what is being preserved. He asked
the commission to vote for the Concept Plan because of it. The 7.67 acres of Protected Wetlands in the
report does include all the Jurisdictional Wetlands on the site.
City Planner
He did not know the 7.67 acres were including all the wetlands, both Protected and Jurisdictional. The
applicants did not say that in their documentation. That makes things a little bit better. Wildflower
Shores was created under a different Open Space Preservation Ordinance structure. Density would be
different.
Commissioner Deziel
Were they counting septic in open space?
William McCully, P.E., Rehbein Comnanv
That is another 3.3 acres which are also excluded.
Commissioner Helwie
Where does the 10th Street easement come in? If it is dedicated right-of-way, it should be excluded.
Commissioner Deziel
There seems to be the ability to shave some of the lot edges to allow some greater amounts of open space
along some of these lots.
Anolicant, Bob Close
Yes, some lots could be shortened, those that are in excess of one acres.
CHAIRMAN HELWIG OPENED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:43 p.m.
No testimony was offered.
THE CHAIR CLOSED THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 7:44 P.M.
Commissioner Bunn
The rationale behind excluding DNR protected wetland from the calculation does show bias against large
bodies of water. Those bodies of water are a form of open space.
Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of January 27, 2003 6
AMIzNI)hd) AND APPRC)VF_I): MAl 10, 2003
f 1
City Planner
The definition of Buildable Area precedes the planner. The concept of including a lake which is always
DNR protected, is that DNR protected open space is always preserved. The economic rationale is that
you don't pay for water.
Commissioner Helwig
That is the reason.
City Planner
We have not had an Open Space Preservation project that involved open water since he was here. Hamlet
on Sunfish Lake was the last that had a lake.
Commissioner Ptacek
The rationale is that we already have that open space, bring us something more. Counter it economically,
because they will realize the economic gain by lake lots and pond views.
Commissioner Deziel
Can you plat across the water for a conventional lot?
City Planner
In the last community he worked you could. He has not dealt with it here. Dry land area of the lot had to
accommodate the setbacks. If it could meet the setbacks, it could be done.
Commissioner Deziel
Then there is validity to Bunn's point.
Commissioner Meldahl
10th Street has been raised once already because of runoff in the community Goose Lake has grown
considerably. What happens when runoff in this neighborhood runs? It rose six feet last time. It could
rise another four feet.
Commissioner Helwig
Goose Lake is within six inches of the road already at certain times of the year. Material coming in is not
just nutrients but red dirt.
City Planner
The engineering rule in this community is that runoff generated when departing the site cannot be more
than 1% higher in rate or volume than the pre -development rate. Upstream there are holding ponds to
control rate and volume.
Commissioner Meldahl
The city has tried to do that magic before.
Commissioner Helwig
The Shoreland Ordinance 100 Year Ordinary High Water level could affect this.
City Planner
It would, but the commission should not get into doing those calculations.
Commissioner Berg
Valley Branch Watershed did include it in their report.
Commissioner Helwig
He addressed the applicants Do you wish the Planning Commission to table or make a motion?
Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of January 27, 2003 7
AMENDED ANI) AI-'PRC)VI-I): MARCH 10, 2003
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Dave Sorenson
He would like the motion.
M/S, Sessing/Ptacek, To deny the Concept Plan for WHISTLING VALLEY because they are in excess of
OP Standards by two units.
Commissioner Sedro
She likes the plan but because of non -conformities of too many units and shortage of open space she will
not be able to vote for it. Commissioner Sessing agreed.
Commissioner Bunn
Based on comments by applicants and the planner, we are not sure how far off we are from the
calculations. Are we sure we have the right numbers?
City Planner
Yes, five or six acres.
Commissioner Bunn
This is the first time they are dealing with a lake since she has been here. She would be interested in
revisiting that ordinance concept of water bodies not being a part of preserved open space. She might
also make a recommendation to look at that calculation method to be sure it is clear.
Commissioner Helwie
The commission has to vote based on the existing ordinance.
Commissioner Deziel
This makes a huge amount of open space available to the public. It probably fits the intent better than
many of the designs we have passed. It does not fit what we need, but he thinks it fits our concept better
than those that have fit our standards. Those are the details of the Code we have.
Commissioner Ptacek
It is a great looking plan. The public access, the residences, the concept is great. Density and acreage are
a problem.
City Planner
Echoing what has already been said, it is a great looking plan. If you want to recommend it for approval,
you have to have Findings to support the 4/5 OP Variance.
Commissioner Deziel
The entire end of the lake is owned by these landowners. This is unique to this development.
Commissioner Helwie
The intent is there, but it doesn't meet the numbers. He cannot come up with Findings of Fact to support
a positive vote.
VOTE: 8:1 (Bunn) PASSED (She would prefer they deny it until they can undertake a review of the
calculation of open space. They might establish a new way to treat properties with bodies of water.)
M/S, BUNN/DEZIEL, To recommend to the City Council to take up a study reviewing reasons for
excluding DNR protected bodies of water in the calculations of open space.
Commissioner Bere
The idea was if you couldn't build on it, you could not count it. VOTE: 3:6 FAILED (Bunn, Deziel,
Meldahl)
Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of January 27, 2003 8
AMI_NI)EI) ANC) APPROVF-.D: MARCH 10, 2003
City Planner
He will bring to this to the City Council on Feb. 4.
Other Business
February 5 from 3:00 to 4:00 p.m. is the third and final American Planning Association Audio
Conference in our series. It will be done in chambers by computer with the web and a speakerphone It is
entitled, "Update on Planning and Environmental Law." It talks about court decisions and what they
might mean to us locally. Only one might be a case from Minnesota. All are invited and encouraged to
attend. We always get CD's, Kim keeps them. Notice to all commissioners will be mailed.
The Kostelnik variance comes before the commission on February 10, 2003. It appears to be a deck
turning into a three -season porch. The City Planner will try to get a Staff Report ready in time.
Adjourn 8:14p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Kimberly Schaffe
Recording Secretary
Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of January 27, 2003 9
4 \
CITY OF
LAKE
AELMO
City of Lake Elmo
Whistling Valley/OP Development Concept Plan
651/777-5510
3800 Laverne Avenue North / Lake Elmo, MN 55042
City of Lake Elmo
Washington County, Minnesota
NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING
The Lake Elmo Planning Commission will hold a Public Hearing on Monday, January
27, 2003 at 7:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers of City Hall, 3800 Laverne Avenue North,
Lake Elmo, Minnesota, to consider a request by Bald Eagle Development for an Open
Space Preservation Development Concept Plan, at property generally described as
follows:
A parcel of approximately 52.7 acres located in the west one -quarter of the southeast
quarter of Section 27, Township 29 North, Range 21 West, north of 10th Street North and
east of the entrance of Lake Elmo Park Reserve, adjacent to Goose Lake in the City of
Lake Elmo, Washington County, Minnesota - Property I.D. No. 27.029.21.42.0001.
All persons who wish to be heard regarding this Open Space Preservation Development
Concept Plan will be given an opportunity at the Public Hearing. Written comments will
be accepted up until the time of the Public Hearing.
Charles E. Dillerud
City Planner
Published in the Thursday, January 16, 2003 Gazette.
toms, printed on recycled paper
.i AND APPRC.)VE:l:): MARCH 10, 2003
PLANNING COMMISSION
Meeting Minutes
January 13, 2003
Vice Chairman Helwig called the meeting of the Planning Commission to order at 7:00 p.m.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Ptacek, Bunn, Berg, Sessing, Sedro, Pelletier, (Deziel — 7:16 p.m.).
STAFF PRESENT: City Planner, Dillerud, and Recording Secretary, Schaffel.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
AGENDA
Commissioner Berg made one addition: a letter of support for Tom Armstrong to the Metropolitan
Council Board. That will be Item 8A on the Agenda.
M/S, Berg/Sessing, To accept the Agenda as amended. VOTE: 7:0 PASSED.
ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING — ELECTION OF OFFICERS
M/S, Berg/Sessing, To nominate Bob Helwig for Chairman of the Planning Commission. VOTE: 6:0:1
PASSED (Abstain — Helwig).
M/S, Sessing/Helwig, To nominate Jeff Berg for Vice Chair of the Planning Commission. VOTE: 6:0:1
PASSED (Abstain — Berg).
M/S, Berg/Sedro, To nominate Rod Sessing for Secretary of the Planning Commission. VOTE: 6:0:1
PASSED (Abstain — Sessing).
MINUTES OF DECEMBER 9, 2003
M/S, Sessing/Sedro, To accept the Minutes of December 9, 2003 as presented. VOTE: 7:0 PASSED.
CONDITIONAL USES IN '1IJJ LIMITED BUSINESS ZONING DISTRICT
Staff Report, Chuck Dillerud
A Workshop was held on December 9 that involved business owners affected by this proposed zoning
change. There are five parcels to be rezoned adjacent to I-94. They all have existing businesses. They
were previously zoned General Business which allows a broad range of uses. In 1990 the adopted
Comprehensive Plan reclassified the categories to Limited Business in the Land Use Plan. They should
have been brought into zoning compliance within nine months of adoption of our Comprehensive Plan.
In June of 2002, the City Council directed these sites be rezoned to bring these sites into compliance. We
held hearings regarding these changes. We made the recommendation to go ahead with the rezoning,
conditional on amending the Conditional Uses to add the existing uses on the affected sites, and that the
City process gratis Conditional Use Permits to permit the uses to exist as legally conforming.
The property owners all objected. They stated that uses needed to be broad enough to encompass future
uses. They also stated that many of these properties had non -conforming setbacks. Expansion could also
be hampered under the new zoning. Suggestions and comments were listed by Councilmember DeLapp
and are attached to the Minutes of December 9, 2003.
Commissioner Williams asked for a straw -vote. The zoning that exists in the Old Village and Tri-Lakes
is de facto zoning. Non -conforming uses were kind of thrown away. If we strike non -conforming use
provisions of the City Code, these owners could rebuild. It would not help expansion issues.
Commissioner Deziel arrived at 7:16 p. nz.
Planning Commission Meeting of January 13, 2003 1
AMENDI:.I)AM) A;%PI2OVEivitaltf;hl1D.200:i
City Planner
Staff suggested potentially modifying non -conforming use provisions in the. But added that it may not be
wise to modify too much of the zoning ordinance, when you are redoing the entire zoning code soon. We
have grant money to do that. Might we not want to wait? This will not address the zoning designation,
just how they are regulated. To actually modify the zoning districts, you have to amend the Land Use
Plan. We cannot do that until we are finished with the Metropolitan Council litigation. If the
Commission decides to do some surgery to the ordinance, it might be thirty days before the City Planner
could get to it.
Commissioner Helwiv
He asked Commissioner Bunn if the City Attorney's letter answered the questions she had.
Commissioner Bunn
There is the issue of delaying until a larger process of revisiting the zoning code. That would not happen
until the Met Council issue is resolved, potentially as long as 70 days. Beyond that when would staff be
free to initiate grant money and spend the time to visit the rewriting of the Zoning Code?
City Planner
That would be a consultant's job. There is no reason we could not get it started by soliciting new
proposals before the Metropolitan Council issue is done. In sixty days we could have them on board.
Commissioner Bunn
Two issues didn't seem to get answers, one was state statutory requirements to change zoning to be in
compliance with the Comprehensive Plan, and whether our failure to do so impacted our legal status; it
really doesn't. The owners or the Metropolitan Council could force the issue legally to speed up the
process but that does not apply to us. The second question she had was for the preliminary plat approval
under General Business zoning on land that should have been rezoned to Limited Business. Are they free
and clear of that change now? When can the Planning Commission do anything about that? She thought
it was one year. She wanted to be sure that it was fair for everyone, that past and future businesses be
treated equally under the city zoning code.
The option presented, to table the issue for now and not address it until a more comprehensive zoning
process begins, concerns her. Three landowners at least that were heard at past meetings, one who is
trying to sell and two have empty or unimproved land, if we delay acting, owners will act quickly to try to
sell as if they are General Business. She would not want to have to review these problems with a new
owner. Planner indicates another year or two before we revisit or change the Code. She favors
immediate action over waiting.
Commissioner Deziel
There could be argument made for a moratorium as opposed to immediate action. Several owners may be
unfairly treated. There is no need to jump to action out of fear of others jumping to action. In the last
twelve years, nobody has really jumped into action. If anything, there should be a calming and allowance
for more time to look at the situation so we are not arbitrarily depriving owners of value. There should be
fairness and mellowing in this situation.
Commissioner Sedro
At the meeting one month ago, a fourth option was mentioned that was some sort of intermediate zoning
with a performance standard rather than specification -based. Something that would not be challenging to
downtown yet allowing something more for highway uses.
M/S, Berg, Helwig, To recommend to the City Council that the project to draft a new zoning ordinance be
initiated immediately to include hiring a consultant to do a wholesale rewrite of the zoning code. The
new ordinance should review zoning districts city-wide and look at non -conforming uses in those areas of
I-94, Tri-Lakes, and the Old Village.
Planning Commission Meeting of January 13, 2003 2
AMI-NI.)I::I) AND AI'PUOVF i ): MAI<CFI 10, 2003
Commissioner Sessing
Did the City Council have a preference as to how this rezoning issue should be handled?
Citv Planner
Only what we saw in the Workshop Minutes.
Commissioner Berg
We should be getting efficiency and equity in the process.
Commissioner Helwig
Commissioner Sedro's fourth option would still be on the table.
Commissioner Sedro
What would our role be in the rewrite?
City Planner
The Planning Commission would review options and general scope. The consultants would actually draft
the code. We would have to establish the degree of Commission involvement.
Commissioner Bunn
Vice Chair should be a liaison to this process to follow up and be sure it is moving forward - to assist the
Planner.
Chairman Helwig
In today's world, divulging information when selling, people are aware and alert. There are assessments.
They will investigate the zoning. It should come out in the transaction.
City Planner
The redraft of the zoning ordinance could take months. The probability of something happening in the
meantime under the existing zoning rests on the overall economy. As long as the economy remains
somewhat slow, it probably would not happen.
Commissioner Bunn
She is interested in seeing the landowners treated as fairly as possible but within the confines of the
Comprehensive Plan. It is our mission as a Plaiming Commission to implement the Comprehensive Plan.
The best possible outcome owners might expect is what they have already heard, strike non -conforming
uses, and be allowed to rebuild in case of catastrophe, etc. General Business Zoning as we now know it is
not something that will probably happen in the I-94 Corridor. She does not expect that to ever happen
under the current Comprehensive Plan. She thinks it will only delay what she believes is inevitable.
Compromise wording and go ahead and do it. It probably will not be allowed to remain General
Business.
Commissioner Sedro
At the last meeting, she understood that it would be possible for one guiding that could correspond to
multiple zoning such as a new Highway Zone.
City Planner
Yes. Just as Rural Residential and Agriculture respond to RAD. If you get into the idea of performance
zones, theoretically a house could be in the same geographic area as a heavy manufacturing facility if the
manufacturing land use standards are designed to have no heavier impact than that home. They thought
about it in another city ten years ago.
Commissioner Ptacek
He agrees with Commissioner Bunn. He feels there is pressure of time. We don't have staff either. He
will not support the motion.
Planning Commission Meeting of tanuary 13, 2003 3
AR/11r1V3 )1 1) Atdr) APt-IWVI'1), RIIA1,2C 1 10, 2003
Commissioner Deziel fcl S I'
There is no indication that acdbn would be indefinitely postponed. He is looking for an open concept.
He is trying to treat people fairly.
Commissioner Pelletier
Timeliness is a worry. Could we revisit this issue in six months if the zoning ordinance project is not
moving along?
Commissioner Berg
That is an option. He would be favorable to it. Maybe we could prioritize for a consultant in order to
eliminate some of our timing concerns. Motion amended to reflect that request.
AMENDED - MIS, Berg, Helwig, To recommend to the City Council that the project to draft a new
zoning ordinance be initiated immediately to include hiring a consultant to do a wholesale rewrite of the
zoning code. The new ordinance should review zoning districts city-wide and look at non -conforming
uses in those areas of I-94, Tri-Lakes, and the Old Village. The Commission should prioritize getting a
consultant in order to eliminate some timing concerns.
VOTE: 6:2 PASSED (Bunn, Ptacek— Against - She would like them to address the down -zoning issue
now rather than postponing it.)
City Planner
We can pin down consultants to timing and then bring it up again if we are uncomfortable with the
timing.
M/S, Bunn/Deziel, Ask the Vice Chair to lead and be a liaison with Commissioner Bunn acting as
Alternate, along with the Planner in the consultant hiring process, and to keep everyone on the Planning
Commission up to date. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED.
UPDATE: OLD VILLAGE NEIGHBORHOOD DESIGN STUDY
Staff Report, Chuck Dillerud
He was remiss in not inviting Old Village Commissioners to this meeting. He wants to know whether to
proceed with Old Village work or wait some more. Does the commission agree to allow consultants to
make mapping changes?
City Planner
Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission was assigned to address the Old Village planning
process, and they were presented with a PowerPoint Presentation by Thorbeck that would appear on web,
and used in the first Public Forum. They felt it would not present story the way we wanted to present it.
The committee provided the Planner with a modifications list. It included the graphics, legends, more
detail and more equity of presentation between alternative designs. The consultant said it would cost
$3800 to make that change. The City Council would have to approve that change. Since then, the
Planner asked Thorbeck if we can do that in-house except the graphics. Thorbeck reported that changes to
the graphics would cost $1200.
Commissioner Bunn
The issue of money and whether we spend it was not in the committee's hands. That's up to the City
Council. We can do the PowerPoint Presentation modifications in-house. If we have to spend $1200 to
move it because of time, that is necessary.
City Planner
He would be happy to meet with Old Village Commissioners before January 21.
Planning Commission Meeting of January 13, 2003 4
MIS, Ptacek/Sessing, To rec 'tend the city move forward and spend $1. on Thorbeck for the
changes in graphics on the Ole Village Neighborhood PowerPoint Presentation to get it on the table
sooner. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED.
Commissioner Bunn
What kind of time frame?
City Planner
He will find out from Thorbeck if the City Council approves.
LAKE ELMO AVENUE SIDEWALKS
Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission mandated the Planner and the City Engineer to begin
the streetscapes project on Lake Elmo Avenue from Highway 5 to the railroad tracks. TKDA is ready to
make a presentation on what is there and what the next step should be.
OTHER BUSINESS
Commissioner Berg
Former Chairman Tom Armstrong asked for a letter of recommendation for his endorsement to the
Metropolitan Council Board. See attached.
Commissioner Bunn
It is the practice to get support from others. She is uncomfortable because she does not know who else
from our district is applying. We are not in a position to make that assessment. Because of the issues
going on with our city and the Metropolitan Council, aside from qualifications, he clearly has a particular
position with the extent of the Metropolitan Council's reach. Making this endorsement signals what
citizens want to see in the Metropolitan Council. She is not sure if that has a down -side. She would like
to know who else is running.
Commissioner Berg
If we remove endorse and change it to support would that be a problem?
Commissioner Bunn
Letters of support may be written for multiple candidates.
Commissioner Pelletier
Change it to say that the Commission supports Mr. Tom Armstrong.
MIS, Helwig/Sessing, Change the attached letter to read that the, "Commission supports Mr. Tom
Armstrong," and mail it to the Metropolitan Council. VOTE: 8:0 PASSED.
Commissioner Deziel
He wants to be sure to keep with the charge from the latest workshop to look at the 100% rebuild ability
for existing structures on non -conforming properties in the General Business rezoning. Don't let that get
lost. Pick it up at a future meeting.
ADJOURN 8:17 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
raglifrt
Kimberly Schaffel
Recording Secretary
Planning Commission Meeting of January 13, 2003
5
City of Lake Elmo
651 /777-5510
3800 Laverne Avenue North / Lake Elmo, MN 55042
MEETING NOTICE
The Lake Elmo Planning Commission will meet Monday, January 13,
2003, at 7:00 n.m. in Council Chambers —City Hall, 3800 Laverne Avenue
N., Lake Elmo, MN 55042.
AGENDA
1) Pledge of Allegiance
2) Agenda
3) Organizational Meeting
(a) Election of Officers: Chair, Vice Chair, Secretary
4) Minutes of December 9, 2002
5) Conditional Uses in the Limited Business Zone
6) Update: Old Village Neighborhood Design Study
7) Sidewalks on Lake Elmo Avenue
8) Other Business
9) Adjourn
The public is invited to attend.
eti
%TO printed on recycled paper
a
CITY OF
LAKE
AELMO
December 23, 2002
City of Lake Elmo
651/777-5510
3800 Laverne Avenue North / Lake Elmo, MN 55042
RE: Variance from Height Restriction for a Freestanding Sign — Hilpisch/Pechan
Dear Property Owner:
The City has received an application to consider a request by John Hilpisch, D.C. and Walter
Pechan for a Variance to Sign Standards, Section 535.07, Subd. 2.E. Freestanding Signs
of the Municipal Code to erect a ground sign up to twenty feet in height where six feet are
required. The property is located at 8603 34th Street N, Lake Elmo, Washington County,
Minnesota, lying southerly of County Highway 5, and westerly of Inwood Avenue.
The City Council will hear testimony concerning this request at a Public Hearing at its
Tuesday. Tanuary 7. 2003 meeting which begins at 7:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers of
City Hall, 3800 Laverne Avenue North, Lake Elmo, Minnesota.
Please, contact me should you have any questions or concerns.
Sincerely,
Charles EDillerud
City Planner/Acting Administrator
Attachment: Notice of Public Hearing
CED:kas
'ILO printed on recycled paper
4
CITY OF
LAKE
AELMO
City of Lake Elmo
651/777-5510
3800 Laverne Avenue North / Lake Elmo, MN 55042
City of Lake Elmo
Washington County, Minnesota
NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING
The Lake Elmo Planning Commission and City Council will hold a Public Hearing on
Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 7:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers of City Hall, 3800
Laverne Avenue North, Lake Elmo, Minnesota, to consider Amending the 2000 — 2020
Comprehensive Plan in the following manner:
1. To comply with Paragraphs 1 and 2 of the "Regional Recreational and
Open Spaces" section of Metropolitan Council Resolution No. 2002-30,
and
2. To comply with Paragraph 7 of the attachment to the Metropolitan
Council Resolution No. 2002-30.
The Planning Commission and City Council will hear testimony concerning this request
at a Public Hearing at its Tuesday, January 7, 2003 meeting which begins at 7:00 D.M.
in the Council Chambers of City Hall, 3800 Laverne Avenue North, Lake Elmo,
Minnesota. Written comments will be accepted up until the time of the Public Hearing.
Sincerely,
Charles E. Dillerud
City Planner/Assistant Administrator
Published in the December 25, 2002, Stillwater Gazette.
t�� printed on recycled paper
Lake Elmo
PLANNING COMMISSION
2003 Work Plan
1. Zoning Code Update (CDBG — in progress)
2. Old Village Neighborhood Design Study
(CDBG — in progress)
3. Cimarron Neighborhood Study
(Study Design in progress)
4. 2004 — 2008 Capital Improvement Plan
5. Review/amend street design standards
(Council/PC committee appointed)
6. Review/Amend Sign Code
Adopted: November 25, 2002 For Your Information