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HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-14-03 & 08-11-03 PZMCITY Of LAKE ELMO City of Lake Elmo 651 /777-55 l 0 3800 Laverne Avenue North / Lake Elmo, MN 55042 MEETING NOTICE A Regular Meeting of the Lake Elmo Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission Will be held on Monday, July 14, 2003 at 7:00 p.m. In Council Chambers, Lake EImo City Hall 3800 Laverne Ave. N. Lake Elmo, MN 55042 AGENDA 1) Pledge of Allegiance 2) Agenda 3) Minutes from May and June 7:00 — 8:00 p.m. 4) Discuss Outcomes of Old Village Public Forum No. 2 5) Provide direction to Thorbeck Architects 8:00 A.M. 6) Adjourn The public is invited to attend. toil printed on recycled paper APPROVED: JULY 28, 2003 CITY OF LAKE ELMO OLD VILLAGE SPECIAL PROJECTS PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES JULY 14, 2003 Chairman Helwig called to order the meeting of the Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission at 7:00 p.m. in the Council chambers: Planning Commission Members Present: Helwig, Bunn, Pelletier, Berg, Sessing, Sedro, Van Pelt, Meldahl, Ptaceck, Deziel (arrived 7:10 pm).Old Village Committee Members Present: Wyn John, Ann Bucheck, Todd Williams, Dewey Thorbeck of Thorbeck Architects, Ltd., Lane Kendig, Consulting Planner, Tom Prew, TKDA, City Planner Dillerud and Recording Secretary Sharon Lumby. 1. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE 2. AGENDA: M/S/P Sessing/Berg — to approve the July 14, 2003 Planning Commission agenda, as presented. (Motion passed 12-0.) 3. MINUTES: May 12, 2003 M/S/P Berg/Williams — to approve the May 12, 2003 Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission Minutes. (Motion passed 12-0.) MINUTES: June 11, 2003 M/S/P Sessing/Williams — to approve the June 11, 2003 Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission Minutes as amended. (Motion passed 12-0.) 4. Discuss Outcomes of Old Village Public Forum No. 2 Dewey Thorbeck reported that Option No. 4 was a response to concerns and ideas brought up by residents at the first forum, and there was strong support for Option No. 4. The minor errors brought up in the latest plan have been corrected. Mr. Thorbeck noted the Commission shouldn't establish a hard number unit count, but leaves the number open. Option No. 4, as presented, should be carried forward into the public hearing Lane Kendig explained the City should be more interested in character and quality of the community rather than the magic number of units; and, the final density number to determine what is workable, rather than to arrive at a maximum number — only to find the system will break down. TDR does not have a good history in this country. You have to have a willing buyer and seller. He encouraged the four property owners to buy into the system of this village area and bonuses. He thought this concept plan begged for a master developer. There was a 10 minute break because of tornado warning sirens sounded off at 7:20 p.m. Planner Dillerud suggested the need to provide financial and execution details for the plan-beeause—the—City-would have -to invest - more dollars -to -get -the —answers. The —action Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission Minutes July 14, 2003 1 APPROVED: JULY 28, 2003 taken by the Planning Commission is to adopt a motion to direct staff to prepare a plan to go to public hearing. Commissioner Sessing asked if this motion should be made before the Joint CC/PZ/OV Workshop. The Commission could meet on July 21 and then set a date. Planner Dillerud responded he didn't know what the Council wanted to talk about at this joint workshop. Commissioner Bunn asked how detailed does the plan have to be to be presented at the public hearing. Planner Dillerud responded that the Hearing plan would have less detail than the plan the Commission has before it now. The comprehensive plan amendment would have the area where the City Hall, library, etc. is now labeled as a public area without having details what will go in that area. Commissioner Bucheck referred to a memo from Council member DeLapp with his comments on the Thorbeck plan. She said people are concerned with the number of units allowed and the citizens are not flexible about this. Commissioner Williams stated when you go to a public hearing with a comp plan amendment with boundaries of a zone outlined with so many houses per acre, how we would manage that with this scenario which requires some kind of TDR to make it happen. Would we restrict the development within some region that remains open space in order to allow denser development elsewhere? Planner Dillerud responded you would write it that way in the text with the understanding that we don't have the mechanics to pull this off right now. Commissioner John stated at the time of the public forum presented Option 4, there was an understanding that this plan would achieve this total density. The execution might find more difficult ramifications. Mr. Kendig explained the general density and a minimum amount of open space sets the system up; and, leaves it open as to how the landowners can accomplish this. He said that this is too small a project to predetermine exactly where the open space will be. Commissioner Van Pelt said he was comfortable with the conversation on level of design, but the plan was too detailed for the purpose of a public hearing. The challenge is to articulate which features of the plan are illustrative or fixed. Performance based zoning discards the zoning standards and translates into metrics what the developer could do. The number of units can be discussed with the property owners. He didn't know what the right number of units would be. He said he looked through the Maxfield Study and did not see where it supported the 20 percent incentive; and, that supporting affordable housing will be difficult to achieve. Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission Minutes July 14, 2003 2 APPROVED: JULY 28, 2003 Commissioner Berg said that in his opinion, adopting a motion to have a public hearing is achievable, but that it doesn't mean this is a perfect plan. The public wants a piece of paper directing action. We need to adopt a plan closest to what we heard at those meetings. Planner Dillerud noted the Planning Commission can simply say this is the plan to be presented as a document in the proper format as a comp plan amendment for the August 25 public hearing. Commissioner Bunn pointed out the number of four landowners keep getting brought up. Two landowners approached her at the forum that has not been in the process. She was called by a landowner to get more information because much of that landowner's parcel was indicated on the maps to be part of the wetland treatment system. She asked how we get this information to a larger group in these discussions. She found many things unclear in the Maxfield study and could not understand how the study is useful to us. She said she did see how the 20% was come up with on table 4. She said there has to be a lot clearer information than this. Even the 20% doesn't give us enough incentive to make this work for affordable housing. The message received from Mr. Engstrom pointed out the idea that you see visually at the map, where the commercial area and multi family area north of 39th Street creates a barrier type feeling in relation to the area to the south. Commissioner John expressed concern that to present this at a public hearing there is an inference that figure 440 houses associated with a particular layout would be cast in stone. The flexibility is lost. Chairman Helwig indicated there are no specific numbers in the comp plan. Mr. Kendig stated an option would be to hold a public hearing and get input and hang on to the document for a while, write zoning ordinances, and then bring zoning ordinances and comp plan the same night to go forward in the process. Commissioner Williams stated his concern with the number of developers waiting for the moratorium to expire and jump in. He said what he heard was a multi -month process. He didn't know if the developer would wait for this and for the council to extend the moratorium. Chairman Helwig pointed out the developers could develop according to the existing ordinance. Planner Dillerud noted that Op is done by a CUP. Most of this land is RR or AG so you don't automatically have an Op project or 16/40 density — that is a maximum with a CUP. Council member Williams supported Commissioner Sessing in waiting until they heard what the Council has to say. Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission Minutes July 14, 2003 3 APPROVED: JULY 28, 2003 M/S/F Williams/Bucheck — that the Planning Commission recommends that this planning area should include no more than 400 housing units including the handful that are there already in the dispersed farmstead, plus a number of senior housing units not to exceed 50. (Motion failed 2:Williams, Bucheck-10). Commissioner John voiced his concern on restricting the maximum unit figure and having to come back to change it. Commissioner Bucheck stated she supported the 366 units instead of upping to 400. She felt there is flexibility there. We are not saying we are inflexible, but have given them a bonus. People who live here want to set a limit. We want to live in a rural area. Dense development means something different to different people. Commissioner Sedro said the Planning Commission saw the Kendig presentation and have an advantage over the Old Village Commission. Kendig had demonstrated that with good design, sometimes a higher density gives a more rural character than lower density. Commissioner Williams asked why we have to change the philosophy of so many houses per acres. The people do not want more houses here. Some said we don't want more than 366. In his opinion, flexibility means the City gets taken to the cleaners by the developer. Commissioner Van Pelt said he was in a quandary on how to accomplish this. The dilemma is that to put together a plan as we have here would require incentives to make it work. Mr. Kendig stated the density number can be adjusted to make the system work. M/S/P Ptacek/Berg - to recommend approval of the Option No. 4 plan, as presented by Thorbeck Architects at the 7/14/03 PZ meeting, as a basis for presentation at the public hearing on August 25th, per the City Planner's recommendation that the plan be more general in nature. (Motion passed 11-1:Commissioner Bucheck believed a maximum housing unit number should be added that and number as 400 units.) This section of the meeting was adjourned at 8:20 p.m. Old Village Special Projects Planning Commission Minutes July 14, 2003 4 DRAFT City of Lake Elmo PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Minutes of August 11, 2003 Chairman Helwig called to order the meeting of the Planning Commission at 7:00 p.m. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Pelletier, Ptacek, Johnson, Sedro, and Van Pelt. STAFF PRESENT: Chuck Dillerud, City Planner (also acting as Recording Secretary). Pledge of Allegiance Minutes — None Public Hearinu CUP Amendment for Sun Country Farms Planner Dillerud reviewed his Staff Report regarding an application by Country Sun Farms (Dick Bergmann) to amend the existing Conditional Use Permit for greenhouses and sale of landscape materials to add the sale of food as a subordinate use to the retail sales function. He explained that "food sales" is not specifically listed as a "Permitted" or "Conditional" use in the AG zoning district, but that it is a common zoning practice to allow related accessory uses to those otherwise allowed if such additional uses are clearly incidental and subordinate to principal use. He recommended approval of the application subject to several conditions that would establish a "base line" upon which to measure future continued subordination of the food sales to the greenhouse and landscape retail sales principal uses of the site. Planner Dillerud then explained that the second application for Minor Subdivision using the AG "Clustering" provisions must be tabled to permit proper Notice to be published. He noted that those AG provisions had not been used since his arrival in Lake Elmo; and, that he had misunderstood the minimum site size for such an application to be 40 acres, when in fact it is 61 acres. The applicant's site is slightly over 50 acres, so a variance from the 61 acre standard must be considered together with the original application. That cannot be heard by the Commission until September 8. He suggested that the CUP application can proceed ahead of the Minor Subdivision since they are not really related. Commissioner Johnson inquired of the City Planner as to whether the City could condition the CUP amendment with the County Public Health standards for food sales. Planner Dillerud responded that the City could do that, but he would not recommend the City become involved in enforcing the rules of another governmental agency. Mr. Bergmann then addressed the Commission noting that they have depicted two locations for the sale of "snack and carnival foods" on the documents submitted with the application. He explained that the County Health officials would initially permit Country Sun to sell food with minor modifications to the inside sales building; but it was the applicant's intention to ultimately gain County approval for a separate sales facility out in the open sales area of the site. Chairman Helwig then opened the Public Hearing. No members of the Public were present, except the applicants. Chairman Ielwig closed the Public Hearing at 7:20 PM. Commissioner -Pt -week referred the Commission to an -e-mail message from -Commissioner Sessing to the Commission dated August 11. He noted Commissioner Sessing's concern with parking along Highway 36 during the busy seasons at the Country Sun site as a safety risk on a Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of August 11, 2003 DRAFT high speed roadway. Corral ;sioner Ptacek commented that he had, rsonally witnessed this shoulder parking. He suggested that any CUP amendment for Country Sun carry a condition that requires the applicants to, in some manner, prohibit their customers from parking along Highway 36. Mr. Bergmann responded that they do not recall the degree of Highway 36 shoulder parking that the Commissioner referred to; they did experience problems with customers parking on the driveway access to Highway 36. He said that the applicants would be willing to abide by any reasonable condition regarding prohibiting customer parking within the State Highway Right -of - Way. M/S/P Ptacek/Johnson — to TABLE the Minor Subdivision/AG Cluster application of Richard Bergmann to the September 8, 2003 Commission meeting to enable publication of a Public Notice regarding a required variance. Motion Passed (6-0) M/S/P Ptacek/Van Pelt — to recommend approval of the application of Bergmann/Country Sun Farm to amend the existing Conditional Use Permit for greenhouse and retail landscape sales at 11211 — 60th Street North to add "sales of food" as a subordinate and incidental use, subject to the following conditions: 1. Sales of food items shall be limited to snacks and carnival type foods/beverages. 2. Food sales shall be allowed only during the hours of operation of the retail store; and, only during the months of April, May, June, September, October, November and December. 3. All food preparation and sales shall be conducted within an area of 625 square feet of the retail sales structure as depicted on the applicant's drawing which staff dated August 11, 2003. Any relocation or enlargement of this food preparation and sales area shall only be considered upon application for a CUP amendment. 4. The applicant shall be responsible for posting and enforcing no parking on the State Highway 36 Right -of -Way during hours of business operation. Motion Passed (6-0) City Council Update Planner Dillerud updated the Commission regarding recent City Council actions regarding the ATV Ordinance (referred to the Community Improvement Commission); the garage move -in application (approved); the Community Facilities Committee; and the Metropolitan Council Comprehensive Plan issue. The meeting was adjourned by Chairman Helwig at 7:45 PM. Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of August 11, 2003 2