HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 1973/11/19Present:
Mayor Neisen
Councilman Hodges
Councilman Baumgartner
Councilman Johnson
Councilman Pickar
SPECIAL MEETING
VILLAGE OF MOUNDS VIEW
RAMSEY COUNTY, MINNESOTA
November 19, 1973
An improvement hearing for Project 1973 -4 was held by the Mounds View Village
Council on November 19, 1973 at 7:30 P.M. at Pinewood Elementary School, 5500
Quincy Street, Mounds View, Minnesota.
Also Present:
Attorney Meyers
Engineer Bearden
Clerk- Administrator Zy].la
Clerk- Administrator Zyila read the legal notice and attested to its publication
in the New Brighton Bulletin on October 25, and November 1, 1973. There were
204 notices mailed to residents.
Mayor Neisen turned the meeting over to Engineer Bearden who made the presenta-
tion of the project. Engineer Bearden stated that the project was entitled
"Sanitary Sewer, Water, Street and Storm Sewer 1973 -4 He presented several
maps using an overhead projector outlining the storm sewer boundary, the
placement of the proposed streets, the location of the existing streets, and
the location of the proposed storm sewer line with its relation to the existing
surface water drainage line. A drawing was displayed which showed the estimated
cost of the project to be as follows: Sanitary Sewer $339,000.00, Water Mains
$178,000.00, Streets $234,000.00, Storm Sewer $337,000.00, Easements
$90,000.00. Total cost $1,178,000.00.
He stated that the front foot cost would be: sanitary sewer $11.68, water
main $5.71, streets $11.12, storm sewer lateral $10.47, easements $4.29.
In addition storm sewer is to be assessed by an area assessment at the rate of
.00866 per square foot. Water services would be $253.90 each, and sewer
service would be $242.28 each.
Mayor Neisen called for questions or objections from the floor.
Mr. Arthur Spagenski, 8231 Eastwood asked why Greenwood Drive from Sherwood
Road to Ardan Avenue was not being installed. He said he has already paid
assessments on Eastwood Road and Ardan Avenue. Engineer Bearden replied that
the area south of Ardan Avenue was not petitioned for and was not within the
drainage boundary.
Mrs. Rosenquist, 8380 Spring Lake Road, stated that for $7.,000,000.00 it would
be cheaper to buy up the areas where the new streets are to go. She said she
also has no water problem.
Mr. James Bergstrom, 8400 Red Oak Drive, asked where the storm water pipe was
to be laid in relation to his home. Engineer Bearden stated that it appeared
from the map, the pipe would go on his north boundary. He added that the pipe
may be able to be shifted by one or two lots.
-2-
Mr. Douglas Severson, 8465 Eastwood Road, asked if areas would be assessed on a
front foot basis for storm sewer. Mayor Neisen explained that the front foot
storm sewer assessment was only on the new areas. However, all property could
be assessed an area assessment.
Mrs. G. Lunde, 8444 Red Oak Drive, asked how the benefit value was determined for
each lot. Engineer Bearden explained that any land within the drainage boundary
is considered to have benefit.
Attorney Meyers further explained how benefit is determined. He noted that
the final determination of benefit will not be made until the assessment hearing
next year.
Mr. David Grove, 8449 Spring Lake Road, asked why the new street west of Spring
Lake Road does not go directly north and south. Engineer Bearden explained that
on the north the street may not be able to go through due to housing construction,
and on the south, if the street were to go through it would go through expensive
commercial property. He said that it's possible traffic to the scuth may be
able to filter onto a road now in existence in Spring Lake Park.
Mr. Fred Moore, 8345 Westwood Road asked if Spring Lake Park has given their
permission to use the street. The Mayor said that "no" they haven't at this
time, however, we may be able to work something out. In addition, this proposal
is only in its preliminary stages.
Mr. Marvin Schluter, 8312 Spring Lake Road said water now does stand in his back
yard.
Mr. Robert Bruflodt, 8346 Groveland Road asked if 35% of the affected property
owners had petitioned for the improvement. Tne Mayor answered "no" that a
petition was only received for proposed Knollwood Drive and a portion of proposed
Pleasant View Drive. He explained that the Council ordered the hearing expanded
because storm sewer is necessary before any street can be constructed in the
area.
Mrs. Schluter, 8312 Spring Lake Road says she pays too much in assessments now.
Mr. William Foerst, 8340 Red Oak Drive asked how it was determined that everyone
in the drainage boundary was assessed. Engineer Bearden explained that it was
determined by the break in street grades taken from various utility maps.
Mr. George Grone, 8407 Spring Lake Road asked how wide the easement for storm
sewer is. Engineer Bearden explained that the permanent easement will be ten
feet and the temporary easement will be wider, depending on circumstances. The
storm sewer would generally have a depth of ten feet.
Mr. David Bissonnette, 8312 Red Oak Drive asked which roads were petitioned for.
it was explained that only Knollwood Drive and a portion of proposed Pleasant
View Drive were petitioned for.
Mrs. Arthur Abbott, 8270 Spring Lake Road asked why the cost for easements.
Attorney Meyers explained about acquisition procedure and its related costs.
-3-
Mr. Charles Hermann, 8360 Long Lake Road, asked why the costs are ballooning.
Attnrney Meyers stated that at the last hearing only storm sewer was proposed
for the area excluding future Knollwood Drive. The project proposed this
evening included storm sewer, sanitary sewer, water, and streets.
Frank Gabrysh, County Road J asked where on County Road J does storm sewer come.
Engineer Bearden explained that there was no pipe on County Road J.
Mr. Douglas Thompson, 8347 Spring Lake Road asked if the Council had considered
the pressure on the school system and other services. Mayor Neisen answered
"yes Attorney Meyers stated that the Council has been under pressure for
new streets in the area and has had to withhold building permits because of
drainage problems. He stated that the Council is required to hold a hearing
by law when petitioned for. And, they may also initiate a hearing on their
own motion.
Mr. Arthur Zielinski, 83 Groveland Road asked if someone already assessed on
an existing street would have to be assessed on the new frontage created on
the future street. Attorney Meyers explained that the Council has a policy of
no deferred assessments and that it is legal to assess a lot on the front and
rear for a lateral assessment.
Mr. Jerry Dirks, 8434 Red Oak Drive asked if any consideration was given for
the quality of living of the residents. Mayor Neisen explained that two years
ago several residents in the area were instrumental in defeating a park -bond
issue. He stated that this project was expanded by the Council because it
would be cheaper to construct the whole project rather than future streets on
an individual basis. The Council is concerned about the quality of living and
solving the drainage problem is one attempt to improve it.
Mr. Dirks asked what his course of action would be to arrange the street pattern
in order to provide additional park land. Attorney Meyers stated that it would
require a dedication and that the proposal should go through the Recreation
Commission.
Mr. Donald Balk, 2656 County Road J asked if the Council had thought of the
added school needs. Mayor Neisen explained that "yes" they had. Attorney
Meyers stated that if the Council had to be concerned about increasing school
enrollment there would never have been any new streets, new homes, or new
persons coming into the community.
Mr. Louis Rindahl, 8372 Red Oak Drive, stated that he had paid an area and a
frontage assessment previously and asked if he would have to pay an area
assessment again on his total property. Engineer Bearden explained that "yes"
he would have to pay an area assessment for storm sewer.
Mr. Timothy Lewis, 8331 Red Oak Drive said that the area on Sunnyside Road north
of Ardan Avenue south of the drainage boundary not assessed in this project
but is benefitted the most.
Mr. Richard Zieska, 8345 Red Oak Drive declared that 1/2 of his lot was in and
1/2 of his lot was out of the drainage boundary. He asked who surveyed the
area. Engineer Bearden explained that the grades were taken from existing
street grades.
-4-
Mr. Rodney Erickson, 8418 Spring Lake Road stated that the depth of the storm
sewer can't be over ten feet. Engineer Bearden said that some laterals are
shallow. He also noted that there was a storage pond for three feet of water
on the northeast corner of Arden Avenue and Long Lake Road.
Mr. Rodney Erickson, 8418 Spring Lake Road asked how the easement cost per foot
was determined. Attorney Meyers explained that they are obtained from rough
appraisals and that the easement cost per foot will vary depending on the area.
Mrs. Richard Huhne, 8406 Red Oak Drive asked what will happen to the trees.
Engineer Bearden explained that the project will not substantially affect the
water table and that there will be a minimal affect on ground water. The system
is designed primarily to convey storm water.
Mr. Harley Rasmussen, 8380 Red Oak Drive asked about the plan for storm sewer
on the new streets. Engineer Bearden explained that the storm sewer construction
is designed to run to the low spots in the present and proposed streets.
Mrs. Harley Rasmussen, 8380 Spring Lake Road said there are no low spots on
proposed Pleasant View Drive for storm sewer. She asked what right do the
homeowners have. Attorney Meyers explained their rights under Minnesota Statutes
noting that the hearing is being held as required by law, petitions are being
received, and objections are being heard.
Mrs. Spry, 8450 Groveland Road asked how many of the petitioners for Knollwood
Drive live in the community. Clerk Zylla read the list of names on the petition
for proposed Knollwood Drive. It appeared that two of the six petitioners live
in the community.
Mr. William °•.first, 8340 Red Oak Drive asked,since people are against the
proposal can the electionate propose a solution. Attorney Meyers stated moo",
Minnesota Statutes do not provide for contrary petitions.
Mr. Bruflodt, 8346 Groveland Road objected to the letter that was mailed
together with the legal notice and prepared by Clerk- Administrator Zylla.
Mr. Douglas Severson, 8465 Eastwood Road asked if alternative proposals were
considered. He stated he would like just storm sewer.
Mr. Zielinski, 8344 Groveland Road stated that several land owners had attempted
to buy the back half of their lots from contractors, but the contractors had
refused to sell.
Mrs. Spry, 8450 Groveland Road concurred with the comment by Mr. Zielinski.
Mrs. Abbot, 8270 Spring Lake Road asked if the lots could be sold for at least
the amount of the assessment.
George Gustafson, 8391 Spring Lake Road stated that market value of lots is
between $6,000.00 and $6,500.00. He stated that he has been penalized because
he has not received any benefit from the lots on the proposed streets and yet
he has had to pay assessments and taxes on them. He stated that he needs some
relief. He said there are others here who have not spoken out in favor of the
proposal who also need to be able to develop their property.
-5-
Mr. Thompson., 8347 Sprlug Lake Road asked who are these destitute people?
Mr. Foss, 8455 Spring Lake Road stated that he represents some clients who are
unable to develop their property because there is no storm sewer. He stated
that the longer the project is put off the more costly it becomes.
Mr. I. Johnson, 8384 Long Lake Road stated that he owns 2 1/2 acres and he would
like to see the land developed. He is in favor of the project.
Mrs. Bonin, Spring Lake Road stated that the builder made a mistake in building
homes in the area if there is now water in the basement. Don't make us have to
pay for the builders mistakes.
Mr. Rodney Erickson, 8418 Spring Lake Road stated that he has been held up for
two years in selling his lots because of the delay in storm sewer and future
streets. He stated that the price of lots now is $7,000.00.
Mr. Hermann, 8360 Long Lake Road, stated he was in favor the project but would
like to keep the cost down.
Mayor Neisen explained that the way the Council has proposed the project, the
majority of the cost will go on new streets. Cost for storm sewer would be
about .035 per square foot if only storm sewer were to go in. Based on the
financial system designed for this proposal about 87 1/2% of storm sewer cost
would go on the newly created lots on the proposed streets. He asked how do
we allow people to build if we deny a project such as this.
Mayor Neisen asked how many persons were for the improvement and how many persons
were against the improvement. There were 26 in favor, and 59 against. About
40 persons had no opinion.
Mayor Neisen introduced a letter from Mr. Rodney Robinson and Mrs. Clara Ford
in objection to the improvement.
Mr. George Gustafson stated that the project will eventually go in if not tonight
and it would be cheaper to do so now with construction slowing down. Contractors
are now looking for work and by advertising for the 1974 construction season,
unit costs can be kept down. Mayor Neisen concurred that the Council should be
able to get good bids for the project.
Mrs. Morawski, 8432 Groveland Road stated that she already is benefitted, but has
water in her basement.
Mr. Gerhard Lunde 8444 Red Oak Drive asked about the affect the project will have
on the water table. Engineer Bearden explained that it is primarily a storm system
but the affect of the storm system will be to maintain or lower the water table
because all of the storm water is not perculating into the ground.
Mayor Neisen closed the hearing to the public at 9 ;45 P.M. He called for questions
or comments from the Council.
-6-
Councilman Pickar stated that the Council has to face the situation either now
or five years from now and it will be more expensive then. He felt that it
would be difficult to continue to hold back property owners. He asked, are you
winning if the project is not approved tonight, or are you just postponing?
Councilman Hodges stated that he moved here in 1956. He stated that developments
such as this are progress, and that the area will bring in several beautiful homes
and nice families. He reiterated that the Council is getting pressure for new
streets and they must try to follow through with development.
Councilman Johnson agreed with many things that were said by Councilman Picker
and Councilman Hodges. He added that not everyone is going to agree with
legislation whether it is gas rationing or storm sewer. He felt that the project
must come someday and he noted that there are other indirect costs which may
exist by denying a project such as this. In particular he emphasized urban
sprawl, and cost to the taxpayers of extending a sanitary sewer interceptor and
other services to the rural communities.
Councilman Baumgartner noted that since the creation of the Rice Creek Watershed
District a person cannot put a teaspoon of fill in an area without their approval.
He felt that the project was inevitable and it would nor be fair to deny persons
the right to develop their property. He stated that several of the persons that
were in favor of the project were not developers per se.
Mayor Neisen stated that he hated adding additional tax burdens to residents
but something must be done. Ho felt that if we stop development, the Council
is going against what eventually must come.
Councilman Baumgartner explained briefly the subdivision regulations and lot
size requirements.
MSP (Johnson- Baumgartner) '10 order Project 1973 -4 as outlined in the legal
notice.
MSP (Hodges Pickar) To order the Engineer to prepare final plans and specifi-
cations for Project 1973 -4.
MSP (Johnson Pickar) To adjourn at 10:05 P.M.
Respectfully Submitted,
y l.
Dennis S. ZyiJla,
Clerk- Administrator
5 Ayes
5 Ayes
5 Ayes