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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 1975/07/16SPECIAL MEETING CITY OF MOUNDS VIEW RAMSEY COUNTY, MINNESOTA A special meeting of the Mounds View City Council was called to order by Mayor Johnson on July 16, 1975 at 6:15 p.m., at Mounds View City Hall, 2401 Highway 10, Mounds View, Minnesota 55112 Present: Mayor Johnson Also Present: Clerk- Administrator Achen Councilman Baumgartner Attorney Meyers Councilman Shelquist Absent: Councilman Hodges(left meeting at 7:00 p.m.) Councilman Pickar Mayor Johnson stated the purpose of the special meeting was to meet with the contractors and architect of the city hall addition to discusF problems and find solutions and what kind of solutions there are. Michael Miller, B -E Enterprises, stated his reason for regt:2sting the meetng was twofold: 1. To say that an actual solution to the problem has probably been found through advise from Twin City Testing, and 2. Payment for the cost involved with the water problem. They have incurred cost between $3,500 and $4,000 already in connection with the water problem. He wanted to know where the funds are going to come from in relation to this. Mayor Johnson asked for a few comments from Mr. Walijarvi, architect for the project. Mr. Walijarvi said so much has happened and gone on that it would take more than a few comments. The problem is obvious as to what has occurred in the basement that added costs to the project and the amount of money expended perhaps is the greatest, and from this point on it will be the lesser. Whether the problem will be resolved completely remains to be seen. Mr. Miller said they are work to resolve the problem. Mr. Walijarvi stated it is now beyond an architect's capability to resolve this problem. He has asked Twin City Testing to make a solution for him. Twin City Testing said to replace the drain tile that has eroded away, back fill with certain gradients of sand and gravel, put in a surface clean -up top that type Y piY� so tua� th c line can be observed if there 1] any Saito in it and to watch the system. They feel outside perimeter of the tile may have to be replaced. Twin City Testing and his firm will watch the system and the City as owners should watch the sump pit to see if any sand comes in. If it does, we will probably have to saw the drain tile, remove it and put in gradients of sand and gravel throughout the entire system. That is the complete solution. They felt the latter would not have to be done. He said they have asked that Twin City Testing come to the project and keep in touch with B -E and they are going to supervise and tell us how to install it. They are going to report to his office and will send copies of reports to Mr. Achen. He said the foundation could be reinforced by combination of impacting soil and by tamping with 4 X 4 underneath or cement mud packing could he used. B-E is taking it upon themselves to hire a very expensive (Orfie 6 Sons) to do the dewaterine system which is underway and every effort is being made. It is unfortunate it is taking so long, but he doesn't think they can proceed any faster than what they are. As to the second item, -2- July 16, 1975 who is going to pay for this? It is a good point. He said he has tried to ignore it early in the game. There are several involved, the city, his office, general contractor, also mechanical contractor. He said he would not go into that. Who should pay is going to be resolve.. Mark Achen has asked several times and he "pushed it aside to try to get problem resolved first His office has omissions and errors insurance to cover any defaults in design with a $5,000 deductable, because they believe they never make an error. Whether B -E or Berghorst may be at fault, he hates to be judge of that. He doesn't care to pass judgment And whether his company is responsible for $5,000 or $10,000, his insurance company will represent them and will want to investigate the situation. They are going to want to recover whatever they can if we are in error and find out whoever else is in error. They have already started that in his office and the insurance company is going to send them a form to fill out. He asked for a copy of Mounds View's insurance policy covering insurance on the building. He said he talked to some insurance companies to see if Mounds View's insurance will cover something that was done other than his office. There is a substantial amount of money involved and it will have to be resolved. Ommissions and errors insurance does cover a lot of items due to construction, unfortunately, most insurance doesn't cover flood and he doesn't know whether this is considered a flood or not. Attorney Meyers asked B -E if there is any question in their minds that they have to proceed to a conclusion of the project. Mr. Miller said they will continue the work to complete the building. The rater problem fro.,. the r L ]:-g But they water piVU lUl11 is jtipurUt from tlli: completion of i.i ai. ii :Sl iii ills. DUL Lii v,j will want some idea of how this thing is going to go. He thinks they would have some question of proceeding with dewatering until they are sure what is going to happen. Attorney Meyers said heinterprets the contract documents that B -E will have to furnish a completed workable product. Change orders may be submitted with the architect's approval. The City expects a finished building and at this time doesn't see why the City should be involved in extra cost. The City wants the building completed as soon as possible. And further, the City is not in a legal position to pay more money than authorized by contract. Mr. Miller stated he is not in a position to find fault with the city's reasoning. They will proceed with completion of the building at this point, other than the question of dewatering area, and will receive counsel on that point and whatever counsel advises, they will do. They would like very much to complete it. Mr. Erickson said it will take a couple more days to dewater and he doesn't look for anything to be dry until Monday. The .second sandpoint was going between 12:00 and 1:00 p.m. today. Attorney Meyers asked Mr. Walijarvi what specific errors and omissions he was talking about earlier. Mr. Walijarvi said he thought that this was just another ordinary project. They had soil investigations taken to find out where the water tahle was and it was 6.67" above the floor level of the proposed basement. They had perimeter drain tile and sump pit included in basement plan to allow for this. The water -3- July 16, 1975 didn't scare them off. Tests were taken rather late and they were added to the proposal by addendum, and the drain tile was added under the floor. The soil tests were taken June 26, reports received June 28, and August 5th the contract was let. Contractor's were notified by addendum. Mayor Johnson said he recalled Mr. Walijarvi told Council that for some reason Twin City Testing results were received in his office and got put in a file and didn't get sent to the contractors. Mr. Miller of B -E said Addendum t12 did mention the additional drain tile to be added under the floor but that soil boring test data was not made available to him. Attorney Meyers asked what the customary procedure was in regard to this. Mr. Walijarvi said the contractor by a standard clause is supposed to inspect the area beforehand, but this doesn't really hold him responsible legally. Attorney Meyers wanted to know if the contractor should have asked for soil boring. Mr. Walijarvi said he guessed he didn't supply soil boring information to bidders. Mr. Walijarvi said as the job progressed no one threw up a red flag. Twin City Testing didn't say to watch the soil. He said he had talked to Berghorst and they told him that the Bel Rae had asked them about putting in a basement and Berghorst said don't do it. Mr. Walijarvi asked them why they did the city hall basement without saying anything, why didn't Berghorst tell us. He said the man he talked to at Berghorst had not been involved in the bidding And, the city had not mentioned anything either. Attorney Meyers asked if this was a responsibility of the owner. Mr. Walijarvi said he wasn't saying that. If the owner is familiar with the area he might say something. Mr. Walijarvi said he errored because he didn't do anything about the flowing sand by using different gradients of sand and gravel. That would have solved it. Twin City Testing says this will work. It does, however, involve money. It will be obvious if it isn't working. We will be able to detect sand from the sump pit and find out if it is coming from perimeter tile and if it is coming from the floor they will have to remove the tile and do something different. He said Twin City Testing is the most knowledgeable firm area widein this matter. Attorney Meyers asked if another area of omission was in the elevator shaft. Mr. Walijarvi said it wasn't waterproofed to begin with and it was an oversight on his part. He said the first excavation made for the building was bone dry. Along the west wall there was some dampness. The elevator shaft water table was equivalent to the bottom of the footing. After completion it was 2 -1/2" above the finished floor level, a rise of 16 -1/2" from June 26. Observations made at the time indicated that there would be no further problem. It was difficult to perceive the problem we have now. Attorney Meyers asked if the elevator shaft was included in the plans. Mr. Walijarvi said they had alternate bids with or without basement. The elevator was included in the basement plan by law. -4- July 16, 1975 He said he remembers standing in the area of the new addition being concerned about water. Again, he thought they could waterproof and when they began excavation, the water, soil and sand moved into the area. When it is dewatered it becomes very firm. He said he discussed the problem with Mr. Skiba. The first excavations for the basement were clean cuts and you could see where the water had once stood, it appeared the sewer had taken the water down in the area and he felt that thinks were in our favor and thinks it will begin to lower in the future. He said Mr. Skiba had told him about a sanitary sewer pipe being 50' down with gravel and the pipe being laid in gravel. With that, he speculated the water problems would be taken care of. He said what happened here was an act of God. We were blessed with rain that broke all records in June. Others have had water problems also, it is unfortunate situation. To complicate things we were caught with the excavation beside the building not being back filled enough leaving a depression that gathered surface water and drew water into the excavated area and caused real turbulance in underground water. Tremendous water action caused a real load to the underground system. The water came up 8" above the floor and then seemed to stop. The fluctuation and movement of underground water caused the floor to heave. To save money he had limited the landscaping to cover the excavated area. Mr. Erickson of B -E said the west side of the building has an existing problem beyond the area mentioned. A lot of water is still ponding there and it needs to be filled or some type of swale installed to get rid of that water. Mr. Walijarvi said that this was not included in the contract, and that they admit fault for this as designers of the building. He said he thought grading would be sufficient because the areas was so flat and he didn't anti- cipate the percolation of water so rapidly. Mr. Walijarvi said they are to supply B -E with what is to be done to take care of the situation. Mr. Miller said that a solution is underway. B -E is concerned about whether the City is going to take a firm stand at this point. Attorney Meyers said the City is regulated by statutes and the contract and that he can't see where there has been any evidence that the City is at fault. Mr. Miller said it is the City's property, and until someone can point to who is at fault what happens in the meantime. Attorney Meyers said a court of law may have to determine who is at fault. The City if bound by contract. Mr. Miller said B -E had all the confidence in the world with Mr. Walijarvi and that the contract is with the City. They are being asked to do work with no assurance where payment is to come from. Attorney Meyers said that B -E must complete its contract with the City. If they won't then the City would have to go and get someone else to do it under the terms of the performance bond. We don't know who is going to pay for it and it may take a couple of years before it is determined who is going to pay. Mr. Walijarvi said they are probably as responsible as anybody. Whether he can plead no experience in this particular instance he doesn't know. B -E already indicated they will finish their part of the contract. -5- July 16, 1975 Mr. Walijarvi said, "As architect for Mounds View this situation can worsen if it is not corrected immediately. There is a good relationship with B -E, they are a good firm and very cooperative. They are not a big firm and don't have a lot of money backing them and I hope monies due them will be coming shortly." "I definitely feel certain responsiblility for the problems, but there are others responsible too. If it is their choice not to repair this, I can't do anything but as the architect I can say it has to be done." Attorney Meyers asked how Berghorst was involved in this. Mr. Walijarvi said, "They errored in not prov ~_ding part of the system that has inlet six feet below the surface of the floor which comes in from the floor drain from the elevator pit, water over elevator will flow into the sump pit and be pumped away. It is the deepest line into the sump pit. Drain tile is to go into that line. Cast iron pipe was to be installed up to within 10" to top of the floor but Berghorst never installed it. B -E installed theirs at a lower depth with a perforated system." Mayor Johnson said, "Could that one point be the one singular activating factor." Mr. Walijarvi said, "That is exactly what happened "The perforated pipe should not have been put in by B -E, I should have checked it. The mechanical engineer should have checked. We are not required to have a man on the job full time. Maybe the system B -E installed would have worked had it been up higher where there had been less pressure on the pipe it could have taken it away more slowly." Attorney Meyers asked, Did you act after you knew about it Mr. Walijarvi, "I didn't know about it until Mr. Skiba called me." Attorney Meyers asked if Berghorst has been notified that they may be at fault for it. Mr. Walijarvi said he indicated it to him today, July 16, 1975. Mayor Johnson asked Mr. Walijarvi if the City should have a basement. Mr. Walijarvi said there is no pioblem when we get through it will work. Mayor Johnson asked if we were going to start fresh might it be a good thing to say that it would be better to build a split level office building. Mr. Walijarvi said the full basement will work but it would have been better to put sand and gravel gradient in first and then there would not have been a problem. It does cost more to put in the gradient. "We should have recognized the situation, gone to Twin City Testing and said drain tile system should be studies and have them tell us how to install it." Mr. Walijarvi said he told It -I how to install the underground floor tile over the telephone. Mayor .Johnson said with all of these problems due to construction of the base- ment addition, wasn't it advrsahle to keep the basement out of the plan. -6- July 16, 1975 Mr. Walijarvi said "No he talked to Twin City Testing and with a solid collector pipe from outside perimeter it will take care of the problem. He said Mark Achen had suggested he consult someone. He said he asked John Bearden, and he was skeptical about the system. Mr. Walijarvi said, "By Thursday or Friday of that week he didn't feel confident and called in Twin City Testing. But we were all set to go ahead and I am not prepared to say it might not have worked. A week ago I called in Twin City Testing and they told us to do the opposite. They said put in drain tile pipe with 3/8" round holes.They said they have run tests on it and this is the way to do it. All it would have taken apparently is a correct gradient of sand and gravel and there would never have been any problem." Mayor Johnson said in view of the fact that we may have to spend and have already spent extra money, perhaps it was not economically feasible to put in a basement on this site. Mr. Walijarvi said, "If you go back you find the area costs per square foot come in very economical. I think if you add all the extra costs you would have had the elevator anyway and instead of having two doors it would have had to have three stops for a split office building and it might have necessitated a door at this ground level with two doors on the opposite side. It would have meant more brick, heat loss in winter, air conditioning loss in the summer. I think when all the costs are added with the basement down where it is the amortization of extras the cost even with a wet basement would not be more than the split office building. The drain tiles would have been installed anyway. I did not anticipate the silt flowing into the system." Mr. Miller said "They as contractors are obligated to take care of any emergency. We have taken care of and are lessening any damage to the building. We are entitled to payment for work beyond that point." Attorney Meyers asked for an interpretation of paragraph 44 of the building contract. B -E Enterprises read part of the contract and they interpreted to mean that they were responsible to rid the construction trenches of water and dewater prior to completion of the basement, but not after that. Mr. Walijarvi said when a system is installed and finished such as this, it is no longer the contractor's responsibility. You could say it was not properly backfilled. Administrator Achen asked Mr. Walijarvi if it would he wisest to do all the corrective work on the water solution all at one time. Mr. Walijarvi agreed. He said Mr. Achen was welcome to talk to Twin City Testing and see if the •ity would want to do the whole thing,but he said it is easier to do it on the outside and see if it does work. Mr. Walijarvi said he did not think the City would he taking any risks if the whole solution was effected at this time and landscaping and trees etc., finished according to what Twii. City Testing said. If the system is going to work you will see it right away. -7- July 16, 1575 B -E asked if it would be alright to leave the floor open a couple of weeks to see if the system would work. Administrator Achen said leaving the floor another week or two is not as critical as finding a solution to the problem. Attorney Meyers asked if there was any structural damage to the building. B -E Enterprises said they haven't observed any structual damage and are not in a position to say if there is any. Mr. Walijarvi said the sump tank area is not chopped open yet but will be checked. Attorney Meyers said that any requests for payment by B -E must come through the architect, with his recommendation. Mr. Walijarvi said he would leave the matter of payment for contractor to the City's judgment. As an architect, if B -E states that this amount of money is due, he has to sign the request and that the City should pay it. He is in sympathy with B -E because of the extraordinary amount of money expended on this situation. It may not be resolved for months. He would hope it could be resolved through arbitration. It is the technical problem that all parities involved will understand. The money has to come from somewhere. If it comes from his office it has to come through his insurance company. If Mounds View would pay in the sense that it is emergency work he thinks it might not be a bad gesture. He said B -E needs moral encouragement and financial help if possible. Attorney Meyers told Council they could: 1. Pay additional money and carry through on the architect's recommendation and hope to recover from someone else. 2. Refuse to pay and go through B -E's performance bond to get the necessary work done. He doesn't feel taxpayers should be stuck for this. Mr. Walijarvi .-1idn't think City will be the goat for this, that either the City's insurance company or his insurance company will pay. Meeting was recessed at 7:50 p.m. Meeting was called back to order by Mayor Johnson at 8:32 p.m. Mayor Johnson explained to the gentlemen present that Council informally discussed the situation with advise of counsel. And the following was decided: 1. The City will not transmit any funds to the contractor for any additional costs that may be incurred currently to solve any of the problems in the basement. It is recommended that the architect posthaste speed up filing of any claims with his insurance company. If *here are no results, and if the contractor does not want to assume the cost until a determination is made as to who is legally liahle.then the contractor should seek to recover its costs from the architect. The contractor must continue the construction of the building to completion. -8- July 16, 1975 2. The City would like all test data in Mr. Walijarvi's possession and any test data that may come into his possession in the future and that it be transmitted to the City at once. 3. The City is not pleased with the progress of the building and the Council feels a significant amount of problems could have been avoided by the architect. A discussion whether the City should summarily terminate Walijarvi's firm from its contract was held and it is the Council's opinion that it would not be wise for all concerned. Council is therefore, putting Walijarvi on a notice that as of tomorrow he is on probation. Council will go another 30 days and see what happens with the progress of the building, the solution of the problems discussed, and any additional problems that may come up. 4. It is possible that the City may hire an independent outside consultant, structual engineer, architect or someone in this capacity, to report to us independently. That is the reason the City wants all of the test data. Mr. Miller said he appreciates Council looking at all the possibilities. They will proceed and go through their counsel and that is all they can do at this point. MSP (Shelquist- Baumgartner) to adjourn at 8:45 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Mark Achen Clerk- Administrator 3 Ayes