HomeMy WebLinkAbout04-15-2009PROCEEDINGS OF THE MOUNDS VIEW PLANNING COMMISSION
CITY OF MOUNDS VIEW
RAMSEY COUNTY, MINNESOTA
Regular Meeting
April 15, 2009
Mounds View City Hall
2401 Highway 10, Mounds View, MN 55112
1. Call to Order
The meeting was called to order by Chair Stevenson at 7:04 p.m. April 15, 2009.
2. Roll Call
Members Present: Chair Stevenson; Commissioners Lang, Meehlhause, Miller, Rundle and
Walsh-Kaczmarek.
Absent and Excused: Commissioner Cramblit
Also Present: Community Development Director Roberts.
Index to Minutes Page
Planning Cases CU2009-001 and VR2009-002— Consideration of 2
a Conditional Use Permit for Outdoor Seasonal Sales at Robert's
Sports Bar (2400 County Road H2)
3. Approval of Minutes
March 4, 2009
MOTION/SECOND: Commissioner Miller/Commissioner Meehlhause. To approve the
minutes of the March 4, 2009 regular Planning Commission meeting as slightly amended.
4.
None.
Ayes — 5 Nays — 0
Motion carried.
Citizens Requests and Comments on Items Not on the Agenda
Mounds View Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
5. Planning Cases
April 15, 2009
Page 2
A. Planning Cases CU2009-001 and VR2009-002 — Consideration of a Conditional
Use Permit for Outdoor Seasonal Sales at Robert's Sports Bar (2400 County Road
H2)
Community Development Director Roberts stated Robert's Sports Bar, located at 2400 County
Road H2 applied for a Conditional Use Permit for Outdoor Seasonal Sales. He stated the
Planning Commission heard this issue at the April 1, 2009 meeting and had several questions
regarding security, traffic control and vendors. There was much discussion about the proposal
and the Planning Commission tabled the issue, with the intent that the matter be brought back
before the Commission at the next meeting
Director Roberts provided an overview of the proposed parking from the April 1, 2009 meeting.
He indicated the City Code only allows for 30 percent of the building square footage to be
available for outside sales. He stated that amounted to 20 parking spaces. The applicant was
proposing to use 98 spaces for outside seasonal sales, which would result in the need for a
variance. Director Roberts stated for a variance there are seven criteria listed in the City Code
that must be met. He stated this outside sales area would be a large increase from the amount
allowed by the City Code but he believes the City Code was not necessarily written for this type
of outside sales. Director Roberts indicated at the last meeting the Planning Commission
compromised with general support for having 50 percent of the parking for vendors and 50
percent of the parking for customers. This equates to approximately 80 spaces for each. He
stated the applicant has provided a new plan that has 81 spaces on the east side of the building
for the use of outside sales leaving 87 spaces for employee and customer parking.
Director Roberts stated the Planning Commission has two requests to review tonight; the
conditional use permit and the variance request. He stated if the conditional use permit is
approved, the variance request should be addressed with the square footage needing to be filled
in on the resolution. He stated these issues are scheduled for a public hearing with the City
Council at their next meeting on April 27, 2009.
Chair Stevenson stated he did not see the documentation about the concerns that were addressed
at the previous Planning Commission meeting in the packet. He stated it would be difficult for
the Planning Commission to act on the issue without the answers to the information that was
requested at the last meeting such as security, traffic and parking.
Director Roberts stated that Mr. Halverson did not provide documentation because he is more
comfortable giving a verbal explanation than giving something in writing.
Chair Stevenson indicated the Planning Commission has not received an adequate response to
the Commission's concerns from the previous meeting.
Commissioner Lang stated that the Planning Commission is no further along with this request
than they were at the last meeting.
Mounds View Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
April 15, 2009
Page 3
Chair Stevenson asked what the space allocation is if there is a farmers market.
Mr. Halverson stated he met with Community Development Director Roberts and discussed the
last Planning Commission meeting. He stated they reconfigured the parking and is now
proposing 80 spaces for the outside sales.
Chair Stevenson asked how many spaces will be available for the farmers market.
Mr. Halverson stated that there would be 40 for the flea market and 40 for a farmers market.
Commissioner Miller stated the farmers market at the Mermaid and St. Timothy's church do not
have many vendors.
Mr. Halverson stated he is planning for more space than what will be needed. He indicated he
brought representatives from the Blaine Jaycees and JD's Auctions to assist in answering any
questions.
Chair Stevenson asked if the vendors selling on Thursday would take their goods back and bring
them back on Saturday.
Mr. Halverson stated all vendors would take their goods at the end of every sale day.
Commissioner Walsh-Kaczmarek stated in the resolution there was no language specifying
Mounds View residents would have preference for availability.
Mr. Halverson stated if the situation arose where a Mounds View resident wanted a spot and all
spots were full, he would ask another vendor to move to make room for the Mounds View
resident.
Director Roberts stated it is not stated in the resolution and it was an oversight on his part.
Chair Stevenson stated he is not comfortable with the parking ratio of one to one.
Mr. Halverson stated Linder's is setting up in a mall parking lot and taking away from the total
amount of shared parking. He stated he is trying to make his business successful during the off
hours. He stated he is also trying to make Robert's different from the hard rock and roll band
business it used to be.
Commissioner Lang stated he is disappointed because it sounds like Mr. Halverson has this all
planned but has not put anything in writing.
Mr. Halverson stated he met with City Administrator Erickson and Community Development
Director Roberts to discuss the plan and operation of the outside sales operation.
Mounds View Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
April 15, 2009
Page 4
Commissioner Meehlhause stated the applicant has described many of the things that
Commissioner Lang is asking for.
Chair Stevenson stated the applicant has not answered the concerns of the Planning Commission.
Mr. Halverson stated he has given verbal information to the Planning Commission and city staff.
He stated that other outside sales operations did not give the Planning Commission written
information and stated the Commission is executing select enforcement.
Audrey Splettstoeszer, Shakopee, stated that they have known Mr. Halverson for several years
and the Planning Commission could not ask for a nicer person. She stated she would be
participating in the farmers market selling potatoes, onions and other vegetables.
Commissioner Lang asked if she has sold in other places and if other places have written policies
handed out to the vendors.
Ms. Splettstoeszer stated she has operated in several outside sale markets and she has never been
given written policies at any market, however, she did indicate she has a state license.
Commissioner Lang stated with all the different vendors coming and going he did not feel the
Planning Commission was asking too much.
Mr. Halverson stated there was a carnival at the City Hall Park with attendees parking in his lot
last fall and nothing was done and there was not a concern then. He questioned what made this
any different. He indicated that with this outside sale he is helping invest in Mounds View.
Commissioner Meehlhause stated outside sales at Robert's would not increase the value of
properties in Mounds View.
Paul McClaverty, 8108 Xenia Avenue N, stated he did not understand all this discussion over
something so simple. He stated the City of Mounds View should be more concerned about a
drunk individual coming out of the establishment instead of vendors wanting to sell vegetables.
He stated this is a simple business and during these tough economic times he felt anything to
assist the taxpayers would be worthwhile. He reiterated that there have not been any comments
from surrounding neighbors to city staff about the outside sales issue. He stated he failed to see
a downside to the proposed outside sales at Robert's.
Keith St. Marie, representing Blaine Jaycees, stated their organization is currently running the
charitable gambling operations at Robert's. He indicated the Jaycee's have been approached by
Mr. Halverson to assist with security and to assist in taking care of any problems that may arise
such as assisting with parking and directing traffic. He indicated the Jaycee's have been
directing traffic and parking at the Dakota County Fair, which is a much larger scale than the
events at Robert's.
Mounds View Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
April 15, 2009
Page 5
Chair Stevenson stated it is good to know that there will be support for parking and asked if he
was going to be for hire or volunteer and how does it work.
Mr. St. Marie stated he would not be paid personally but instead Mr. Halverson would pay the
Jaycees Chapter and it would go to the operating funds. He stated the Jaycees do not do this for
business, but being a non-profit, it assists in the operating fund.
Commissioner Lang asked Mr. St Marie about their assistance and how they receive direction
when working in the parking lot at the Dakota County Fair.
Mr. St. Marie stated he receives direction from other members of the Jaycees and there is a
handout with a set of rules for the fair.
Mr. St. Marie stated the Jaycees do not deal with vendors directly. He indicated there are
thousands of members of the public at the fair and if something was to get out of hand, they are
to alert one of the people in charge. He stated the Jaycees also take care of serving alcohol at the
Blaine Blazing 4h Celebration. He stated they have encountered many altercations and have
taken care of the situations.
Chair Stevenson stated city staff is not here on weekends and that is a concern. The only
response to any altercations would be the Mounds View police.
Mr. Halverson stated that for any issue he would call the police. He indicated he has a very good
working relationship with the Mounds View Police Department. He stated since he has owned
the business, he has always welcomed the Mounds View Police into Robert's. He feels it is
important for patrons of Robert's to see the police officers present. The outside sales situation
would be no different.
Mr. St. Marie stated the Jaycees would be there to be sure the police do not need to be called for
every situation.
Mr. Halverson stated he has been in contact with the police department
Mr. Steven Elkins, 38946 -4ei Avenue, North Branch, stated he has been doing auctions for over
30 years. He stated he is seeing concerns from the Planning Commission that he has never
encountered before. He indicated he is here to answer any questions the Planning Commission
may have about auctions.
Chair Stevenson asked if he has experience with any situations where the auction items are
outside and the auction is held inside.
Mr. Elkins stated he has done these before. He stated the person selling the items typically
comes and stands by the auctioneer. He added for crowd control, he indicated this is a
community auction type atmosphere with people selling antique furniture, cars, boats, and just a
variety of items.
Mounds View Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
April 15, 2009
Page 6
Commissioner Walsh-Kaczmarek asked if he would sell something like a propane heater.
Mr. Elkins stated he sells any type of personal property.
Mr. Splettstoeszer stated he has been active in the flea market environment for many years. He
indicated he and his wife ran one in the heart of St. Paul. He indicated they never had a problem
and there was no written agreement with the City of St. Paul. He stated this is what Mr.
Halverson is trying to do at Robert's.
Commissioner Walsh-Kaczmarek indicated she noticed there were blank areas on the resolution
for the variance.
Director Roberts stated he left them blank and he would fill it in if it is approved.
Chair Stevenson stated there are two separate resolutions to allow the use and would like to
address them separately. He stated the resolutions are pretty different.
Commissioner Miller stated in the title of the resolution it states "outside and outdoor sales."
Director Roberts stated the Commission could remove "and outdoor."
Chair Stevenson stated the resolution does not address the auction and inside operation.
Director Roberts stated because it is held inside the building.
Chair Stevenson stated we are not addressing the auction at all.
Director Roberts stated there is language throughout the conditional use permit that is directed
toward the auction part of the proposal.
Commissioner Walsh-Kaczmarek stated at the last meeting it was discussed to reword condition
#8.
Commissioner Miller stated there needs to be a correction to #3 and #6 to eliminate "or outdoor."
Commissioner Meehlhause asked if the Police Chief is aware of the proposal from Robert's and
if he had any concerns about staffing issues.
Director Roberts stated the Police Chief is aware of the proposed outside sales at Robert's and
that he did not have any concerns.
Commissioner Walsh-Kaczmarek stated this is a very creative idea and it is reassuring to talk
with the individuals that will be involved. It was beneficial for the Planning Commission to talk
with these individuals. She was concerned because in the resolution it was specific to the issues
of security.
Mounds View Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
April 15, 2009
Page 7
Director Roberts stated it is referenced in condition #4 of the resolution. He stated staff did not
want to get too specific because things within the operation may change.
Commissioner Walsh-Kaczmarek stated most likely the parking lot would not be full in the
beginning of the season.
Director Roberts stated it is his understanding the farmers market may be bigger in July once the
crops come in.
Commissioner Miller stated the conditional use permit does not address anything for the inside
of Robert's.
Director Roberts stated the conditional use permit is only needed for the outside sales.
Chair Stevenson stated his concern is Robert's becoming a used car lot in the section used for the
auction. He was not seeing any language to prevent this from happening due to the auction.
Mr. Halverson stated all items would leave the parking lot after every sale. He also indicated
that currently in the parking lot there is a sign that says any item in the parking lot after 3 am will
be towed.
Commissioner Meehlhause stated he still had concerns about the hours of operations. He stated
if it was on the end of town there would not be an issue, but Robert's is located where there are
neighbors close by.
Chair Stevenson asked the vendors how long it typically takes to set up.
Mr. Splettstoeszer stated about an hour.
Chair Stevenson asked when the Planning Commission would review the CUP and variance
again.
Director Roberts stated it is outlined in 413, which stated when a problem develops, or any
changes to the outside sales operation.
Commissioner Walsh-Kaczmarek stated the farmers market is going to start small and we should
let it run and see how it goes.
Mr. Splettstoeszer stated residents living by the flea/farmers market tend to have garage sales
because the flea/farmers market brings people into the area.
MOTION/SECOND: Commissioner Walsh-Kaczmarek/Commissioner Rundle. To approve
Resolution 901-09, a resolution recommending approval of a conditional use permit to allow an
outside sales operation at 2400 County Road H2; Planning Case No. CU2009-001 as amended.
Ayes —5 Nays — 0 Abstain - 1 Motion carried.
Mounds View Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
Chair Stevenson stated the next matter to consider is the variance.
April 15, 2009
Page 8
Director Roberts stated this is a resolution for a variance from the maximum allowed outside
sales area of 3,389 square feet, to have a total of "to be determined" square feet of exterior or
open and outside sales area for Robert's Sports Bar, 2400 County Road H2. He stated the
question is how much square footage of outside sales would the Planning Commission be
comfortable with. He stated whatever the Planning Commission agrees upon, then staff would
fill in the blanks in the resolution.
Chair Stevenson questioned what the non -designated parking on the site map was for.
Director Roberts stated the area behind the building will be used for employee parking, the area
in front of the entrance is designated handicapped parking and the parking on the west side of the
building is included in the total of the parking spaces.
Chair Stevenson confirmed the 81 vendor parking and 88 for customer parking. He stated he
was uncomfortable with the amount of parking when the auction runs simultaneously with the
flea/farmers market. He stated auctions could bring in many people and the duel usage may
cause parking problems.
Mr. Halverson stated auctions would fluctuate. He stated if the auction is so popular that
particular day he may not have the flea/farmers market.
Chair Stevenson reiterated that he felt it is a problem for all three operations going on at once.
Commissioner Meehlhause stated the variance request should have a condition written into the
resolution. He asked if there could be a review of the variance based on the reality of what is
happening.
Director Roberts stated the conditions need to be written into the conditional use permit.
Mr. Halverson stated if customers park on the street, they are going to be tagged because it is
designated as no parking.
Chair Stevenson stated he has a concern with customers parking at Moe's.
Commissioner Meehlhause stated the reason he is asking the questions is to prevent issues from
happening. He stated the issue the Planning Commission is having is because of the size of the
lot. He stated it would be easier for the Planning Commission with a much larger lot.
Mr. Halverson stated he is not anticipating any problems but if he has any problems, he would
address them immediately. He stated economically this is a good thing because it is bringing
two different businesses to help make Robert's more successful.
Mounds View Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
April 15, 2009
Page 9
Mr. Splettstoeszer stated the customers coming to the flea market are coming and going
constantly.
Chair Stevenson stated the exception of customers coming and going is the auction. He stated
customers could be there up to two hours. His concern was the parking is not adequate for a
farmers market, flea market and auction going on at the same time. He asked if the Planning
Commission was comfortable with limited amount of customer parking that is being proposed.
Mr. Halverson stated the Planning Commission has the ability to review the variance. If there is
a problem, it can be addressed. He also indicated he planned to chart the parking to have
available a history of use,
Commissioner Walsh-Kaczmarek stated the Planning Commission does not have an idea of what
would be adequate parking.
Chair Stevenson asked about auctions on Saturdays only.
Mr. Halverson stated there would be auctions on the weekends.
Chair Stevenson asked if Robert's would make money on the auction.
Commissioner Miller asked what time Robert's opens during the day.
Mr. Halverson stated Robert's opens 11:00 am.
Commissioner Meehlhause clarified Robert's revenue is only coming from the renting of vendor
spaces and possibly people buying lunches.
Chair Stevenson asked if he would be making money on the auction.
Mr. Halverson stated he would not be making money on the auction. It is just to bring people in
to Robert's and into Mounds View.
Chair Stevenson stated that during the auctions he did not think there could be a flea market and
flea markets may have to taper off.
Commissioner Walsh-Kaczmarek stated because this is new it can be used as a test case.
Mr. Halverson stated until the operation is up and functional it is hard to make any limitations.
Chair Stevenson questioned what the total square footage would be.
Director Roberts stated it would be roughly a 12,000 square foot variance.
Commissioner Miller questioned how this fits in with the current code limitations.
Mounds View Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
April 15, 2009
Page 10
Director Roberts stated that when the code was written, he did not believe it envisioned a use like
this. He stated this is a very unique request. He referred back to the proposed plan that had 88
parking spaces and possibly another seven designated for handicapped parking.
Chair Stevenson questioned where a customer coming to Robert's for lunch would park.
Mr. Halverson stated this would not be a problem because lunchtime has about 7-8 people,
otherwise most of the business is delivery or pick up.
Chair Stevenson questioned where the parking is during lunchtime for pick up.
Mr. Halverson stated it is on the west side of the building.
Chair Stevenson stated the Planning Commission has the ability to review the conditional use
permit at anytime.
Commissioner Walsh-Kaczmarek stated if the conditional use permit was rescinded, the variance
would also be rescinded.
Director Roberts stated in #5 of the conditional use permit, the language can be changed. He
indicated he would check with the City Attorney on recalling and changing a variance resolution.
He stated conditional use permits have conditions that must be met.
Chair Stevenson stated that in the variance there is not the language that is in the conditional use
permit.
Director Roberts stated the City Attorney could add #4.
Commissioner Lang suggested adding something similar to the language of #13 in the
conditional use permit. He stated with this language in the resolution he feels more comfortable
with the variance.
Commissioner Meehlhause stated he feels more comfortable with the new layouts.
Commissioner Miller questioned #3 and how the Planning Commission gets around it.
Director Roberts stated the variance is written for the structure, not for uses. He felt this was
special condition to the code.
Chair Stevenson questioned with approval of the conditional use permit and variance, when and
how it would be presented to the City Council.
Director Roberts stated the City Council needs to approve the conditional use permit but not the
variance, but it will be included in the information provided to the Council. He stated this would
be a public hearing with advertisement in the newspaper and notification to residents. He stated
this issue would go before the City Council at the April 27`h meeting.
Mounds View Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
April 15, 2009
Page 11
MOTION/SECOND: Commissioner Meehlhause/Commissioner Walsh-Kaczmarek. To
approve Resolution 902-09, a resolution recommending approval of a variance from the
maximum allowed outside sales area of 3,389 square feet, to have a total of 15,200 square feet of
exterior or open and outside sales area for Robert's Sports Bar, 2400 County Road H2; Planning
Case No. CU 2009-001 as amended.
Ayes —6 Nays — 0
6. Other Planning Activity
None.
7. Next Planning Commission Meeting:
A. May 6, 2009
B. May 20, 2009
8. Adjournment to Agenda Session
Motion carried.
There being no further business before the Planning Commission, Chair Stevenson adjourned the
meeting at 9:33 p.m.
(The meeting immediately adjourned to the Agenda Session)
Respectfully submitted,
en Roberts
Community Development Director
Transcribed by:
Barbara Suciu
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.